low budget film lights?

Hi,

at the moment I use (halogen-)lights from the DIY-store. 100W and 400W.
Are there cheaper led lights for film use? Brighter than the 100W construction lights.
I need hard light.
Nice to have would be adjustable color temperature. There some cheap lights for video amateurs but I doubt they are bright enough. I dont have the photometric values at hand. But I hope you know how bright a 100 W halogen spot is.

Low Budget means some 100 Euros / Dollars.

Thomas

I answer myself, because I found some:

http://www.cinelight.com/tungsten-light ... -650-watts

No LEDs, The LEDs are more expensive. But low budget.

Just be more careful with the Arri clones because, in my experience, although they may look like Arri they don't share the same build quality and can't take a beating like the real thing.

Arris are not low budget.

Arris are not low budget.

You linked to a clone of an Arri 650 fresnel. I said be careful of the clones because, even though they look like an Arri light, doesn't mean that you can be as rough handling it as you can an Arri. I did not say Arri lights are low budget lights.

To be honest I didn't realize that this is an arri clone. I'm not so familiar with arri lightings. (ok, the color should have give a hint ...)
I just looked about something useable for low bugdet, amateurish use in this price range.

I look for something that matches a bmpcc not an alexa ...

Just get a lowel kit.. I was looking for LED's too but nothing really satisfied me in color and output, except for those Dedo lights but they are super expensive. Lowels are great starters, if you need a different color temp put some gels on there and your good to go.

Thomas, have a look at those from Arri:
https://www.mbfshop.de/de/Flaechenleuch ... 700.D.html

I am using them myself - build and light quality is really great!

Yea, avoid Arri Clones -

Ive had a few in my time - they were not safe and were miles away from the quality you get with the proper arri gear.

Get a set of (good quality) Red heads and gels, scrims etc. They won't give you the same level of control that a fresnel gives you - but they will give you a high CRI output which is bright and they don't cost the earth.

Failing that - get a load of 85w/100w CFL soft boxes and some dishes - Lower CRI but they stay cool and pack away to a small space and are very light weight.


I avoid LED's like the plague - even the most expensive ones look bad in my opinion. Poor colour reproduction (despite what the manufacturer claims), Poor light throw and you end up having to spend a fortune to get decent ones.



On the other hand - I would strongly recommend that you don't try and be too low budget with your lights -

in order of importance to getting a good image (in my opinion) it goes:

Lights
Camera
Lenses


Heck with good lighting iphone footage can look pretty good - with poor lighting Alexa footage will look crap.

Invest in lighting.

What Tom said.

I second the mention of Lowel lights. They're small, inexpensive, are rugged enough for broadcast use and I've used them without complaint on many film sets. No fresnels, but they do have something called the DP light, the Omni and the Pro which are basically 1kw, 500w and 250w focusable flood lights, respectively. And they're cheap compared to Arri and work really well with good accessories for later kitting.

Also, I'd love to invest solely in LED lights for many green reasons, but the good ones are expensive and still don't have the throw of a proper incandescent fresnel.

A cheap DIY alternative would be:
http://www.amazon.de/MEGAMAN-ESL-E27-RÖHRE-10000h/dp/B001AXMDCY/

I am using those as my standard office light - very good color rendition for a CFL (auf Deutsch: ESL).
You could mount seven in a circle and get 12.000 Lumen combined output by using this cheap light and replace the cheap bulbs: http://www.amazon.de/Walimex-16258-Dayl ... 002GOJJEG/

Also, I'd love to invest solely in LED lights for many green reasons, but the good ones are expensive and still don't have the throw of a proper incandescent fresnel.

Lowell's are great lights for the money, my only warning is that they do get hot. They seem to get hotter than the Arri lights I've been working with, but the quality of their lights is fine.

I'd rather use LEDs myself, but for now the only LEDs that have reasonably good CRIs + enough output + a semblance of affordability are the Dedo lights, which aren't particularly cheap.

I differ from Tom on one thing, though; for me, investing in lights has been a lower priority, because I've been using Arri and Mole Richardson lights that I've been borrowing from my film school (I'm trying to get some value out of the tuition bux I paid, since they largely failed educationally and did an even worse job with internship and job referrrals). They used to have a pair of KinoFlo DivaLights, but apparently they got stolen, and the school's production "instructor" (really just a toy tourguide, his class doesn't actually cover anything that isn't in the product manuals) replaced the DivaLights with LED panel lights, though I can't think of which brand they are.

Your access to resources will most likely differ; if it's more economical to buy lights and rent lenses, then you should do that, rather than skimping on either.

So we're using great lights, but spending extra money on them. I will of course eventually invest in lights because of how important they are.

Another cheap LED alternative with not so bad CRI:

https://www.bordis-wunderland.de/scangr ... n/a-28826/

or with very good CRI (but 4500K color temperature):
https://www.bordis-wunderland.de/arbeit ... e/a-30218/

Infos in English: http://www.scangrip.com/product/146/508

for me, investing in lights has been a lower priority, because I've been using Arri and Mole Richardson lights that I've been borrowing from my film school

Don't forget the sun. It's a pretty good source of light, too, sometimes.

for me, investing in lights has been a lower priority, because I've been using Arri and Mole Richardson lights that I've been borrowing from my film school

Don't forget the sun. It's a pretty good source of light, too, sometimes.

I use the sun for the vast majority of my fine art photography

For some reason though, most of the films I've been DP on have been indoors, so I end up doing a lot of lighting... but every director I work with likes their films to have elegantly dramatic light, even when they're comedic, so I get to have a lot of fun with it

Understand what color temperatures mean and think about where you are planning to shoot, outdoors or studio or wherever, study color temps and filters that change a light's color, understand the electrical hz in your country and how it affects the non-film lights you might use(flicker).

as many on this board could certainly attest- you will get what you pay for. I've used a lot of them, from shower caps over lightbulbs with those tin reflectors, to work lights, to Chinese knockoffs.. finally to real lights.

If you are planning on making more than one film: it is an investment. Some redheads are cheapish, but understand all their issues, heat, voltage, etc. Don't get the really cheap ones, they are kinda unsafe and fragile. Two of my three light set died in a cave shoot and now blow out their bulbs every hour it seems. I'll never go back to redheads, unless I have to light a large area really cheap.

If I was starting over again and had limited funds (like now) I would build my light set around a dedolight Fresnel, expensive but portable and versatile, and built like a tank. That way you have at least 1 quality light you can build off.

I'm not going to get into an LED , color index debate here but lots of people use better quality LEDs. Cheap LEDs will have a greenish cast. The small ones are so useful for hair lights back light, light pockets, wherever you need them. FV has some you may want to look at that aren't too expensive. I use an led panel and a couple of small ones. I also have a switchtronix bolt which is absurdly powerful like a car headlight. It has dimmer and temperature adjustments. I like portable and versatile and I can run every light I own off V mount or sony NP batteries.

There's no point in buying big heavy lights that need special inputs, are hard to handle, and hot, if you can't put the light where you need it.

I like natural light most, so reflectors are worth thinking about if the sun is around. I think using mixed lighting sources rather than a single type of source is a perfectly viable style.

If you are buying lights, treat them like lenses. Investments that will last much longer than cameras...

They tend to be resistant to being superseded and are camera agnostic and if you buy quality they will last you a lifetime and more than pay for themselves.

The first equipment I bought was lighting. I figured I could always make any camera look good on any budget if I had some good lighting instruments and it would lead to more work.

My first lighting purchase was a dedo master kit. That was 15 years ago and aside from a couple of header cables they're still going strong. Since then I've bought other little lighting bits and prices, they tended to be the more exotic instruments that gaffers often don't tend to carry (like dedo Octodomes)

I've stayed away from LED lights in general as I just don't like what they do to skin, even the high CRI ones. I do like the CREAMSOURCE though.

I also have a lot of xmas lights, rope lights and small festoon light rigs (all tungsten). I also have some "lego lights' made for me by a gaffer. We called them this because they kind of look like big lego bricks. He built a frame about 2'x 6' and lined it with Ultrabounce recycled from a larger frame. He mounted 15 x ES bulb fittings inside on some timber and simply mounted a spigot on the back. You can then point the open face at your subject, or put 1/4 or half grid on the front. They are very lightweight and easy to rig for their output. Those kinds of homemade fixtures can be really great for certain uses (beauty lighting).

Best example I could find, the Lego is behind and to the right.

L1002220 by John Brawley, on Flickr

I like simple. Here's my gaffer holding a bare kino tube for a handheld walk and talk at night...

L1001931 by John Brawley, on Flickr

A scene lit by Xmas lights..

Xmas Lighting by John Brawley, on Flickr

Rope Light...

Kindle 3 by John Brawley, on Flickr

ROPE light behind the scenes...
_4254217.jpg by John Brawley, on Flickr
Naked158.jpg by John Brawley, on Flickr

One of my favourite lights is a small dedo bulb in a tiny soft box...I like these on camera sometimes...

P7136060.jpg by John Brawley, on Flickr


JB

Lights
Camera
Lenses

Invest in lighting.

Funny. Coming from audio its just the same. Most important and often underestimated is room acoustic (and mic placement), than microphones itselves and than pre ams and fx etc.

John, all your lighting image samples in your last post are tiny. Never had problem with your images before.

Frank Glencairn is a big fan of Dedolights.


Rick Lang
Sent using Tapatalk HD

John, all your lighting image samples in your last post are tiny. Never had problem with your images before.

Frank Glencairn is a big fan of Dedolights.


Rick Lang
Sent using Tapatalk HD

Click on the title beside them.

jb

Is anyone familiar with the current Dedolight 3-light studio kit? I believe there's more than one variety, but it's two focusable spot/floods and a small softbox, with accessories. Not cheap -- about US$3500 - but the kit w/case is under 25lbs and they claim they get much higher output than typical lights on the same voltage bulbs.

Anybody?

Is anyone familiar with the current Dedolight 3-light studio kit? I believe there's more than one variety, but it's two focusable spot/floods and a small softbox, with accessories. Not cheap -- about US$3500 - but the kit w/case is under 25lbs and they claim they get much higher output than typical lights on the same voltage bulbs.

Anybody?

Dedo's amazing performance comes form their optical design. Mostly we're talking about the original dedo light, though they now make a lot of other variants...

They take very low cost 12v 100W or 24v 150w globes and harness them very efficiently with a huge focussing range in a very small lamp head that can fit in your hand.

Compared to a little LTM pepper or an Arri 150w they are much more controllable and easier to shape.

I like to use them as accents. You would use something brighter for brute force lighting, but you can hide dedo's in a set and easily pick something out from across the room and light ONLY that thing....

They are indestructible and the cost of ownership is low because the bulbs are $2 a pop and last hundreds of hours....

Compare the cost of bulbs in others an you'll find they cost 10 times as much and last in tens of hours....

My favourite thing is to put a disposable plastic water cup in where the barn doors go for a super soft miniature Chinese lantern....

JB

Those interested in the actual spectral quality of various lights will find this article interesting: http://www.gtc.org.uk/tlci-results.aspx.

This thread over on Lift Gamma Gain is also interesting: http://liftgammagain.com/forum/index.ph ... ight.3809/ - particularly, for those of us who are also colorists.

I really like JBs low budget lighting. NICE! Christmas lights produce better quality light than any low cost LED light. I'm a big fan of cheap china balls. You can use them outside on a boom pole or string them on a line across an ally

Just curious, do Christmas lights or rope lights give any spikes in colors? Has anyone ever looked at them through a spectrometer?

Just curious, do Christmas lights or rope lights give any spikes in colors? Has anyone ever looked at them through a spectrometer?

I believe JB is referring to traditional incandescent tungsten bulbs, not cheap LED bulbs.

Incandescent tungsten is beautiful light, especially on skin.

I really like JBs low budget lighting. NICE! Christmas lights produce better quality light than any low cost LED light. I'm a big fan of cheap china balls. You can use them outside on a boom pole or string them on a line across an ally

JB & Scott thanks for this post. Loving this idea of nice soft inexpensive lights that add to practicals and going to add a few to my kit. Can you point me to something specific on the china balls? JB how much did you need to mess around on the rope lights in terms of brands? Thanks again.

Just curious, do Christmas lights or rope lights give any spikes in colors? Has anyone ever looked at them through a spectrometer?

The ones JB uses in his photos (and he refers to in his comments) are tiny incandecent light bulbs, they should show the natural spectrum of tungsten bulbs, though probably rated at a lower, warmer color temperature. Perfect for warm indoor lighting.

John, all your lighting image samples in your last post are tiny. Never had problem with your images before.

Frank Glencairn is a big fan of Dedolights.


Rick Lang
Sent using Tapatalk HD

Click on the title beside them.

jb

D'oh! I think I'm ready for the looney bin now.

Rick Lang
Sent using Tapatalk HD

Thanks JB, after spending a half hour on your flickr...I'm trying to talk myself out of buying an M8!

seriously though, are those unprocessed images or have they been worked over before posting? LOVE the skintones in all of the Leica images you've posted!

Just curious, do Christmas lights or rope lights give any spikes in colors? Has anyone ever looked at them through a spectrometer?

As I mentioned earlier, I don't really like LED lights. I go for tungsten. That said, xmas lights and rope light tends to be very very warm...often around 2500K....

JB

Can you point me to something specific on the china balls? JB how much did you need to mess around on the rope lights in terms of brands? Thanks again.

Brands ?! Not sure what you have in your part of the world, but we have chinese "$2 shops". I can normally get paper lanterns there no worries. Obviously you're wanting the white ones which are more like unbleached muslin colour.

They also will sell xmas and rope lights, but it's getting really hard to buy one ones that ARENT LED.

Sometimes in the few months lead up to xmas, I see pop-up xmas stores and will stop in to get some from those.

Xmas lights are very very unreliable. I have a lot of them and end up going through a lot.

I'm sure there are quality rope lights you COULD source from hardware / outdoor lighting / architectural sources but I've never bothered.

I also like lantern locks for paper lanterns. Much safer and easier to rig.

http://www.lanternlock.com

jb

I really like JBs low budget lighting. NICE! Christmas lights produce better quality light than any low cost LED light. I'm a big fan of cheap china balls. You can use them outside on a boom pole or string them on a line across an ally

JB & Scott thanks for this post. Loving this idea of nice soft inexpensive lights that add to practicals and going to add a few to my kit. Can you point me to something specific on the china balls? JB how much did you need to mess around on the rope lights in terms of brands? Thanks again.

In the US, you can buy some really cool china ball stuff at FilmTools in LA: http://www.filmtools.com/catalogsearch/ ... hina+Balls

They were out of stock forever. Now, it looks like they have all the goodies back in stock!

Thanks JB, after spending a half hour on your flickr...I'm trying to talk myself out of buying an M8!

seriously though, are those unprocessed images or have they been worked over before posting? LOVE the skintones in all of the Leica images you've posted!

Wayyy off topic here....


Yeah...

It's an amazing camera, even more so when you consider it's their first M digital camera, is "only" 10.8mp and was introduced in 2006. They still sell second hand for over 2K. I don't know many other digital cameras that take such beautiful pictures nearly 10 years after they were introduced..

I spent years deliberately avoiding Leica because I knew I'd be sucked into red dot fever...

A director I work with loaned me his M8 for a while to try and I couldn't really give it back. I bought my own, then added recently an M-E which is a 135 version of the same sensor.

I think they have a great look, but the WAY you take photographs totally changes with a camera like an M series rangefinder, because they make you earn your photographs. I think that's actually the biggest difference. No Autofocus. No auto exposure. It's basically all manual.

Many people find them frustrating to work with but a rangefinder seems to elicit totally different reactions from PEOPLE when you point it at them to take their photo. I get more interesting photos. People aren't as intimidated by it. Many also say that it's because the viewfinder is off to the side, you're not covering your face with a camera and the rangefinder means there's no shutter black-out either.

They are ridiculously overpriced and you can't help but feel judged by other photographers who think you're some wannabe dentist displaying a status symbol. They have pretty crappy DR compared to CMOS sensors and aren't very good in low light. I could never shoot the M8 more than 640 ISO and 320 is it's sweet spot.

They also have lot's of faults with their sensors, with strange lines randomly appearing, cameras that crash...

But they are beautifully made, seem to pretty much hold their second hand value, especially lenses which is totally at odds with the digital disposable world....

There is something special going on, and I think it's a combination of the way you take photos with an M camera, the lenses, the sensor and post. I use Capture One for post which also seems to work really nicely with the Leica images. I've been a long time user of Lightroom too and still use that for all my Olympus images....

Anything with an L prefix in this set is Leica....

R is an Alexa frame grab
A is a RED frame grab
No letter will be an Olympus....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawl ... 958079115/

Sorry for the off topic exploration....

jb

I can't really say enough about dedolights. I have the dh4. I use it both with a 12v 100w bulb and a 24v 150w bulb. For the 12v 100w I bought xlr to dtap cables and run it off a 12v battery like a vmount. For the 24v you need a really expensive 24v battery, like a battery belt. I run the 24v off the mains.

Everything about a dedolight is well thought out, they are so tiny, the size of a coke can, they have a spot to flood adjustment, dimmer, easy to use small filters, cheap bulbs that last forever. And a surprising amount of light output. Even the tiny, reversible folded stand is cool. And tough- I saw an ad where they parked a truck on top of one.

But low budget they aren't, not for an independent. But then again, you'll use it forever.