Diffusion

I know its been discussed before but never really found a solid conclusion.

Could anyone suggest a filter to help reduce the detail I'm seeing in peoples skin when shooting on the BMCC. I do a lot of music video work with models and narrative film and at the moment it's like filming using a magnified glass and seeing every imperfection on my talents face. I don't want to soften the image to the point of losing a lot of detail and sharpens, but just a definite softening of the skin that is easily seen. Ive seen the promotional videos from stiffen etc but i find those videos slightly different to user experience so would love to hear what you guys are using. Thanks

Thanks in advance

http://www.toolfarm.com/blog/entry/skin

I'd advice you do it optically. I use the black pro mist 1/4 and Hollywood BlackMagic 1


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Thanks guys. I'm looking through those videos now, very interesting approaches. Also Olan, are you stacking those filters or using theme individually. I'd assume the 1/4 is very subtle? After seeing the results from my latest video I'm feeling the the BMCC is so sharp, I may need something more aggressive.

David Mullen ASC has written quite a bit about diffusion filters (example posts below). His main advice seems to be: Use less than what one first thinks is required, because too much diffusion in footage can't be removed in post, or if needed, more diffusion can be added in post.

A few links I've bookmarked over the years (do a search to find recent posts):
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.p ... count=1430
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.p ... count=1942
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.p ... count=1947
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.p ... count=2168
http://www.scarletuser.com/showpost.php?p=89465
http://www.scarletuser.com/showpost.php?p=89506
http://www.scarletuser.com/showpost.php?p=89514

On a related note, if you're shooting with a BMCC, the new anti-aliasing filter from Mosaic (installed behind the lens) can be thought of as a "twofer": It greatly reduces aliasing & moire from fine details in clothing, hair, etc., and also adds a subtle diffusion. So, especially for "beauty" shots it might be a good one-shot solution for certain kinds of productions. Refer to the other thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30670

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Ollie, have you also watched the wonderful, but long, video Tiffen produced running through many of their diffusion filters and the effect on skin and lights (using a fair skinned model and a dark skinned model)? It helps understand about the various strengths required


Rick Lang
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I really like Schneider Classic Softs because they diffuse without LOOKING like you've used diffusion at all. I usually use 1/8 or 1/4 at most...

Remember too that the amount of diffusion changes with focal length. Generally you want less "strength" on wider focal lengths) and it gets heavier as you go longer....

ProMists have a great look as well, but I find it really obvious that you've used diffusion in the end result and it always detracts for me.

JB

This is a serious noob question, but I always thought people generally softened skin with lighting and not with lenses? Seems counterproductive to do it with lenses, as it'll soften your entire picture, right?

This is a serious noob question, but I always thought people generally softened skin with lighting and not with lenses? Seems counterproductive to do it with lenses, as it'll soften your entire picture, right?

I actually thought we were talking about using filters in front of lenses, but yes of course it starts with lighting. Lighting can certainly be used and is probably the most effective tool of diffusing an image. The larger the light source size relative to the subject your photo, the softer it will be.

In addition to that the lens itself can have diffusion properties, though these are kind of minor in the scheme of things (not looking at overall geometry and look etc)

We can also introduce other optical filers in front of the lens and this is the most convenient, consistent and reliable way to do diffusion.

We can also diffuse behind the lens, a lot of people stretch fine denier stocking for example and you can even get kits for fitting them to lenses..see
http://thedopshop.com/nets-c-26.html

We can also do it in post, though I'm pretty against that as I find the image tends to end up looking very "processed" and plasticky especially over time and in motion...

You can also improvise...on a static frame you can use some nose grease on a clear filter in the right spot to work magic too....some also like vaseline but I find it a bit heavy handed these days...

JB

Thank you so much for the detailed feedback, lots of resources for me to look into then. I did watch the Tiffen video and it was great at showing me the different effects of each filter. My only issue was that I've done some crude filter tests before and have realised that the filter can effect the image in ways an almost static figure won't show, so as much as i look at them for a base guide, I always try to find people who have extensive use with them too.

I think I'm going to go with the Schneider Classics. In the meantime, since posting this I have had somewhat good results in post production. My favourite being Magic Bullets 'Cosmo', which seems to be quite intelligent with isolating skin tones, albeit a bit of a pain because I do my grading in Resolve so applying it after in my NLE can be tricky if the grade has altered things too much. I've used the sapphire plugins (ofx in resolve) and not too keen on the results. Also Keying the skin tones manually in resolve and then adding a subtle blur wasn't really looking too good.

Also incase this is of any interest to anyone, I have noticed that shooting on my canon 24-105 L series lens produces softer skin tones than the sigma 18-35. Im guessing due to the fact the sigma may be sharper.

Bottom line I have discovered is this....the BMCC is SHARP! If shooting talent that is supposed to be flattering, smooth skin i.e. commercials, music promos, then you NEED a filter or adding some form of filtration in post, otherwise you will see every nook and cranny of the human flesh.

Check out the new Tiffen filters. Very nice. Black Satin 2 looks great at 4k. Subtle and classy.

Check out the new Tiffen filters. Very nice. Black Satin 2 looks great at 4k. Subtle and classy.

I like the subtle effect the Black Satin 1 gives me. Much unlike the Mist filters which make the room look like it's full of smoke to my eyes.