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Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:33 pm
by Noel Sterrett
I just tried a Tokina 11-16 on a BMCC EF and it would not focus to infinity. A Rokinon 35mm focused properly, but as we didn't have another Tokina to try, it was not clear whether the problem was this particular lens or all 11-16 Tokina's.

Anyone know for sure?

Cheers.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:58 am
by Hiroyuki.K
Tokina 11-16 F2.8 PRO DX II(EF)
I also have the same problem.

I tried in the shop
other Tokina 11-16 : NG
EF-S 15-85 : 15mm OK
EF-S 10-20 : 10mm OK probably

I contact the manufacturer holiday is over.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:05 pm
by Marshall Harrington
I was planning on this lens for my wide option so if anyone else could post their results I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks in advance.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:05 pm
by John Christon
hm - i literally just got this lens in the mail today too - and check it and yeah, it doesn't seem like it's focusing to infinity at the wide end.

kind of a bummer. hadn't heard about this before

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:11 pm
by George Wharmby
I was just about to order this lens, I think i'm going to wait....

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:25 pm
by Peter J. DeCrescenzo
Apparently there are 2 versions of this lens, an older model & a newer model (the "DX" & "DX II")?
http://www.tokinalens.com/tokina/products/atxpro/

Could the previous posters clarify exactly which version they have? I'm wondering if it makes a difference concerning the focus-to-infinity issue?

Thanks.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:26 pm
by Gabriele Turchi
Maybe it focuses infinity a bit before the end f the focus scale ?
Or it does not focus at all ?

I have used the Tokina with the scarlet a while ago and I think that to focus the "infinity " I had to set the focus rig a bit before infinity ..

g

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:04 pm
by Noel Sterrett
Gabriele Turchi wrote:Or it does not focus at all ?

Mine would not focus at all to infinity.

Cheers.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:05 pm
by Gabriele Turchi
how far off is ?
any way you could post a DNG frame?
thanks
g

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:49 pm
by John Christon
I have the DX1 which i heard was sharper. I looked it up and apparently this is an issue with some of them. I'll post some DNGs and tests tomorrow hopefully. I'd like to see a DX2 now as a comparison.

I'm gonna try to get my hands on a friends one too who says his is sharp the whole way and see if I'm being too picky or not.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:51 pm
by Gabriele Turchi
thanks john
please , if you can , shoot a little image with both lenses and post the 2 DNG

thanks

g

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:12 am
by John Christon
I know this is hardly a good test - I'll find something better tomorrow - just wanted to make sure my eyes weren't fooling me. These are 100% crops.

This is with the Tokina 11-16 f2.8 DX1.

At 16mm - resolves pretty good detail looks sharp - this is actually JUST under infinity too
Screen Shot 2013-01-02 at 8.02.55 PM.png
Screen Shot 2013-01-02 at 8.02.55 PM.png (568.85 KiB) Viewed 281216 times


At 11mm - at infinity - and as you can see leaves a bit to be desired compared to the 16.
Screen Shot 2013-01-02 at 8.01.04 PM.png
Screen Shot 2013-01-02 at 8.01.04 PM.png (323.69 KiB) Viewed 281216 times


These are both wide open

DNGs here if anyone feels like playing further: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ctxqj5wwuqcs9u0/-qD1r0wUhI

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:53 am
by Gabriele Turchi
looks like the wider is less sharp (and off course you tried even a bit before the infinity on teh focus rig right?)

it would be interesting try @ f5.6 rather than 2.8 (which i assume the images are )

but now i am noting another thing : is there moire' on the wall @ 16mm ??

g

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:31 am
by m.snell-callanen
I've never used this lens, but was also thinking of buying it after receiving BMCC.

Is it possible to switch to manual focus and just go infinity that way? Or are you saying that when you DO go to infinity manually, it still doesn't look sharp on camera?

Sorry if I'm a little confused.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:36 am
by adamroberts
m.snell-callanen wrote:Is it possible to switch to manual focus and just go infinity that way? Or are you saying that when you DO go to infinity manually, it still doesn't look sharp on camera?

Sorry if I'm a little confused.


The BMCC does not autofocus. Every lens needs to be manually focused.

Noel Sterrett wrote:I just tried a Tokina 11-16 on a BMCC EF and it would not focus to infinity.


I'll test the Nikon mount Tokina 11-16 ver1 next week when I get back to London and let you know how that performs.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:41 am
by m.snell-callanen
I know it doesn't autofocus, but I was thinking they might be focusing through the camera or LANC remote. Something like that. But what's happening is a manual pull of focus ring on lens to infinity is not sharp to infinity within camera recording?? Right?

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:27 am
by John Christon
Focused manually. I really want to test another lens now because of the whole thing where some Tokinas are just duds and others are great. Or maybe I'm just being picky. It is rather unsatisfying though when you see something tack sharp at 16 and then zoom out to 11 and its just slightly off. The 11 focuses closer fine, but yeah infinity at least on my lens and the OP's lens is no good.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:18 pm
by Noel Sterrett
m.snell-callanen wrote:But what's happening is a manual pull of focus ring on lens to infinity is not sharp to infinity ...

Correct.

It will focus tack sharp at short or medium range but is clearly soft starting around 20'.

Cheers.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:40 pm
by bhook
I have a lens that goes past infinity...you have to bring it back a touch to get sharp focus at infinity. I don't like it but can at least work with it. Are you saying that it is impossible to get sharp focus at infinity with the Tokina?

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:50 pm
by Vince Gaffney
I have the Nikon mount in the original version. It focuses perfectly at infinity on my D7000 and on my Sony F3 with MTF adapter.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:18 pm
by Noel Sterrett
The inability of a lens to focus at infinity is usually a result of either a defective lens, or the flange distance is too large.

Clearly, non-defective Tokinas do not have this problem when used on other cameras or the many users and reviewers would have noticed it.

As I mentioned earlier, a Rokinon (Samyang) 35mm T1.5 focused properly on the same BMCC so I seriously doubt that the BMCC flange distance is too long.

My guess is that it was a bad lens, but the possibility that it is lens design can't be ruled out.

Cheers.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:14 pm
by Hiroyuki.K
Up test footage.


EF24-105mm looks so very sharp, there is a possibility that my Tokina is broken...
However, I felt the same problem the other AT-X116 PRO DX II tried at the store, I also want to check the BMCC body.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:08 pm
by Tom
Hiroyuki.K wrote:Up test footage.


EF24-105mm looks so very sharp, there is a possibility that my Tokina is broken...
However, I felt the same problem the other AT-X116 PRO DX II tried at the store, I also want to check the BMCC body.



wow the 24-105 looks great!
looks sharper than my 24-105 @f4 on my 5dMkii!

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:14 pm
by John Christon
A test I did is up:

It's pretty bad at 11 wide open while concentrating on the windows of the building in the background- I keep asking myself if this is normal for this lens or if it's a dud, but I'm pretty sure mine is a dud.

Shame - it's pretty nice at 16.

This is also a pretty good view of what some wides look like on the camera. I was about 12-15 ft away from those flag poles in the foreground.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:36 pm
by mhartle
Out of pure ignorance... is there a reason you guys are choosing the Tokina lenses over a canon or sigma lens? Is it price, quality, selection?

thx in advance for the info,

-m

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:56 pm
by Marshall Harrington
I was planning to get one because of all the great reviews I'd read about it. It's reasonably fast, pretty good build quality, and a reasonable cost.

I'd talked with Matthew Duclos and was planning on having them do a cine-mod.

While on the BMCC it wouldn't be super wide, I'd heard it would do a pretty good job on the wide front until I can afford a set of primes. Likely by the time I can afford a set primes, like the cp2's, there will be a entirely new set of camera's out there and the sensor size will be different.

Wondering if this is just an an instance of a few bad lenses or a problem with the ability of the lens in whole.

Hoping that Tokina is paying attention or maybe Matthew will chime in.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:50 pm
by John Christon
I heard it was good from a ton of people and considering Duclos made a cine version of it made it seem like it was worthy of its not that expensive pricetag.

There's not all that much out there for EF mount lenses that are aspherical wides that are also fast and also sharp.

The sigma and canon 10-20 or whatever they are - are slower right? I don't deny that this is a tough area with the BMCC, but 19mm gets me most of the way there most of the time.

The MFT BMCC will add so many options in this area, so it'll be great when that's out.

And to the poster above - i think it's just my lens is a dud. I heard Tokina's QC isn't that good at all and people get ones with focus issues a bunch. Sometimes on the wide end like mine, sometimes on the 16 end. I guess it's worth the hassle if you eventually end up with a decent wide fast lens.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:31 am
by Marshall Harrington
John Christon wrote:I heard it was good from a ton of people and considering Duclos made a cine version of it made it seem like it was worthy of its not that expensive pricetag.

Matthew spoke highly of the plain-jane version of this lens. Obviously he likes their completely revamped version better.

There's not all that much out there for EF mount lenses that are aspherical wides that are also fast and also sharp.

The sigma and canon 10-20 or whatever they are - are slower right? I don't deny that this is a tough area with the BMCC, but 19mm gets me most of the way there most of the time.

The MFT BMCC will add so many options in this area, so it'll be great when that's out.

And to the poster above - i think it's just my lens is a dud. I heard Tokina's QC isn't that good at all and people get ones with focus issues a bunch. Sometimes on the wide end like mine, sometimes on the 16 end. I guess it's worth the hassle if you eventually end up with a decent wide fast lens.


Bummer that your lens is a dud. I'd love to hear the folks from Tokina check in but guess they don't do that sort of communicating. Wonder if you can send yours back?

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:39 am
by Christian Schmeer
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:Apparently there are 2 versions of this lens, an older model & a newer model (the "DX" & "DX II")?
http://www.tokinalens.com/tokina/products/atxpro/

Could the previous posters clarify exactly which version they have? I'm wondering if it makes a difference concerning the focus-to-infinity issue?

Thanks.


I am interested in this as well.. the Tokinas which have the focus issue, are they Mark 1 or Mark 2?

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:25 am
by John Christon
Mine was a mark 1 - but i read reviews online I forget where that the improvements in the mark 2 were mostly only in flare control and not sharpness and that one place said his mark 1 was sharper - thinking about getting the mark 2 now just to see

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:28 am
by Christian Schmeer
John Christon wrote:Mine was a mark 1 - but i read reviews online I forget where that the improvements in the mark 2 were mostly only in flare control and not sharpness and that one place said his mark 1 was sharper - thinking about getting the mark 2 now just to see


Yes, this is true, but the lens body may have been changed slightly as well, as the label colour went from silver to golden.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:17 am
by Frank Glencairn
Just got mine (version 1) today, same problem - meh!

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:54 am
by Gabriele Turchi
did anyone try on a canon DSLR body ?
I quickly tried my Tokina on a 60 on still mode and I kind of feel same issue ..
but I did not checked properly because I am traveling ...
will be back In couple of days to proper test it

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:07 pm
by Andreas Kaufmann
I don't believe thats true for all Tokinas.. look at the wide shots from Andrew Reid.. I'm almost sure he uses 11mm on some of them.. download the 2,5k version.. is it at 12mm sharp?


Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:42 pm
by MartinM
Hello guys
Just tested my Tokina on Canon 7D. I bought it in 2010 and I think it's OK. Take a look below. All focused manually at infinity, RAW, processed in Camera Raw 6.0 with default settings (except for the fill light, which is +50).

1. 11mm, f2.8 - full res: http://imageshack.us/a/img688/2825/img2085nn.jpg
Image

2. 11mm, f5.6 - full res: http://imageshack.us/a/img809/8970/img2086qw.jpg
Image

3. 16mm, f2.8 - full res: http://imageshack.us/a/img685/4521/img2087af.jpg
Image

4. 16mm, f5.6 - full res: http://imageshack.us/a/img141/1368/img2088r.jpg
Image

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:46 pm
by Felix Steinhardt
Geee, I recently bought the 11-16 for my D7000 and for my future BMCC, but it was so decentred that I sent it back and bought another one just to find out it was all the same. Now i´m glad that they didn´t work when I read this thread.

I´m now getting the Nikon 10-24mm 3,5-4,5.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:06 pm
by Christian Schmeer
How is it possible that nobody noticed this issue before? :roll:

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:10 pm
by bhook
Christian Schmeer wrote:How is it possible that nobody noticed this issue before? :roll:


+1 Sure glad I didn't buy one...

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:50 pm
by Frank Glencairn
Gabriele Turchi wrote:did anyone try on a canon DSLR body ?


Just tried, looks like it's fine on a Canon body - drives me nuts.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:33 pm
by John Christon
Frank Glencairn wrote:Just tried, looks like it's fine on a Canon body - drives me nuts.


That's nuts that it's fine on a canon body but slightly off on the blackmagic - that sucks. that's immensely frustrating. and yeah to martin - it seems to be alright on your 7d.

any of the other people that have both the camera and this lens have any luck with it. i also can't believe that other people didn't notice it until now. I guess it's just something with the flange distance with the bmcc or something?

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:51 pm
by Noel Sterrett
John Christon wrote:thinking about getting the mark 2 now just to see

I believe the one I tried was a Mark II.

The interesting question will be whether or not the same problem exists with the Nikon mount version and an adapter, and whether or not it is the same on the MFT version.

Cheers.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:24 pm
by John Christon
apparently kholi says on the other forum that he had luck using his nikon tokina with an ef adapter that had iris adjustments.

maybe that's the way to go with these. that actually is starting to seem better in my mind as then you have control over the iris out of camera as well.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:16 pm
by adamroberts
This is not good news.

could have been missed as not everyone focus the shots to infinity. many wide shots have the subject in the foreground so the lens would be focused short of infinity anyway.

As soon as I get back to London I'll test and upload some shots with the MK1 Nikon mount and Novoflex adaptor.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:36 am
by Franckfc92
John Christon wrote:That's nuts that it's fine on a canon body but slightly off on the blackmagic - that sucks. that's immensely frustrating. and yeah to martin - it seems to be alright on your 7d.


If this can happen with the Tokina 11-16, I'm afraid that may happen with other lens, including Canon's ones…

We really need a database of the EF lens compatibles with the BMC, like this one viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2472#p14489
but also specifying if the sharpness at all distance is okay, and the type of mount (EF or MFT + adapter).

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:36 pm
by Christian Schmeer
Has anyone tested other lenses for the same problem yet?

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:03 pm
by Andreas Kaufmann
maybe I go for the Sigma 8-16mm .. it seems to be a solid sharp lens for the bmcc.. at least in daylight this lens is performing very good.. phillip bloom and marco solario did some nice tests with it.. unfornately not very fast :(

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:33 pm
by Craig
Went out today with my new Bmcc...at 2.8 no infinity from 11-14mm then good from 15mm.
Stopped down was fine at 11mm...but I don't know how far I was stopped down as there was no readout with my firmware, this was a quick test as light was failing but wow.... underexposed footage lifted great when I stopped down.



Edit it is a v1 by the way

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:24 pm
by Noel Sterrett
There are reports on Reduser.net about problems with the Tokina 11-16 on Epic's. One noted the issue with a Dulcos mod, but suggested it was improper flange distance on the lens mount.

Cheers.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:48 pm
by John Christon
I had a bad canon tokina and here's an update:

i bought a NIKON tokina 11-16 and a novoflex adapter with iris control and it works beautifully. it focuses PAST infinity now at both ends, so i have to bring it back, but at least i know I can nail it and it is sharp.

plus it adds manual iris to the camera. it does add $250 to the cost of the lens, but you get a great adapter out of it. nikons focus and zoom backwards though, so be ready for that if you try this setup. not ideal, but better than a soft lense.

Re: Tokina 11-16 focus

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:04 pm
by Noel Sterrett
John Christon wrote:not ideal, but better than a soft lense.

Ideal for me, since I have lots of Nikons already.

Good news. Thanks for the post.

Cheers.