SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

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Richard Oakes

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue May 10, 2016 11:38 pm

this might be a stupid question but would these get rid of the magenta edges from the 4.6k?
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 11, 2016 12:12 am

... I suspect the better the lens, the better the light hitting the sensor. Then it's up to the sensor and the brain behind it.

If that was a troll post: then well played.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 11, 2016 1:01 am

So far there's only one focal length, 50mm. The 25mm and 85mm are expected by the end of September. It appears the 32mm might be the most prone to showing up magenta issues, but I don't think we'll have that lens until early 2017 when it may be joined by a 135mm and possibly 18mm later in the year (I hope).


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 11, 2016 9:39 am

rick.lang wrote:So far there's only one focal length, 50mm. The 25mm and 85mm are expected by the end of September. It appears the 32mm might be the most prone to showing up magenta issues, but I don't think we'll have that lens until early 2017 when it may be joined by a 135mm and possibly 18mm later in the year (I hope).


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what i mean is doesn't it squeeze the image onto the centre of the sensor and cut the sides, where the issues are?
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 11, 2016 12:27 pm

All announced SLR Magic APO primes cover Dragon 8K, i.e. a 44mm image circle so their image isn't squeezed to fit a Super 35 sensor. Hope I understood your question correctly.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 11, 2016 12:42 pm

rick.lang wrote:All announced SLR Magic APO primes cover Dragon 8K, i.e. a 44mm image circle so their image isn't squeezed to fit a Super 35 sensor. Hope I understood your question correctly.


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what i mean is you wouldn't use a 2:1 de-squeeze of a 16:9 sensor, that would be silly wide so you would end up cropping the image down hence cutting off the magenta fringe if that makes sense. I could be completely wrong, my anamorphic knowledge is limited lol.
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 11, 2016 1:13 pm

Ah, you were talking about anamorphic squeeze of course, but my mind was on spherical. Yes, when you shoot with the 4.6K anamorphic window of 3072x2560, I don't think you'll see any magenta corners since you are using a third less of the physical sensor. That's good to know for those going with a 2x anamorphic solution!

But even shooting with spherical lenses and using the 4608x1920 window (2.4:1 aspect ratio), I'm thinking the magenta corners will also not be an issue since that window is using a quarter less of the open gate sensor height. If you have that ugly magenta band that runs the full height of one side of the sensor, then 4608x1920 will be a disaster. And that's how I intended to shoot.

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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostThu May 12, 2016 4:37 am

The next round of deliveries of the SLR Magic 50mm APO prime lens has begun. Mine ships tomorrow with the SLR Magic Vari-ND Mark II screw-on the lens. I went with the 82mm just to have flexibility in any future lens purchases that likely will exceed the ubiquitous 77mm filter thread size.

A word to the wise: the 50mm APO has front filter threads and I and others assumed the other APO lenses in development will also have filter threads. I was told today the 25mm and 85mm APO prime prototypes do not have front filter threads! Apparently the decision may not be final yet, so I sent a note to support@slrmagic.com strongly requesting the other APO primes include the front filter threads. I suggest you do the same if you ever think you might want to use these lenses without a matte box. Thanks for your support in this.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostThu May 12, 2016 1:52 pm

rick.lang wrote:The next round of deliveries of the SLR Magic 50mm APO prime lens has begun. Mine ships tomorrow with the SLR Magic Vari-ND Mark II screw-on the lens. I went with the 82mm just to have flexibility in any future lens purchases that likely will exceed the ubiquitous 77mm filter thread size.


Rick what is the price for this lens? And is it better then the Xeen?
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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostThu May 12, 2016 4:44 pm

PRICE
At this time I believe the 50mm APO prime is only shipping to people with preorders and the preorders were cut off at the end of December 2015. Those 'early adopters' are entitled to special pricing. The lenses that will be available for purchase this year for people ordering now are I believe:
$1,799 for the 50mm APO
$2,499 for the 25mm APO
$2,499 for the 85mm APO.

No prices have been announced for the 32mm expected around the end of the year and the 135mm and a wider focal length, possibly 18mm, expected in 2017. That will complete a six lens set. SLR Magic has not committed to doing a macro APO but that will likely be a larger lens and possibly more costly.

So the lenses individually cost more than a set of Xeen lenses. Hard to judge one 50mm lens against the Xeen set, but looking at the 50mm from each manufacturer, the Xeen 50mm is T1.5 and costs $2,495 versus T2.1 for the SLR Magic APO at a substantial savings (however the other focal lengths are about the same price point).

For people who prefer to wait until there is a minimum three lens set offered as a bundle, I believe, later this year you will be able to buy a bundle consisting of the 25mm, 50mm, 85mm, and a hard carrying case. Have no idea of the price or even if a firm commitment has been made by SLR Magic to do that bundle, but it makes a lot of sense.

HOUSING
They are about the same weight. The Xeen is 114mm OD versus 95mm for the APO. The LOA for the Xeen is about 28mm longer, about 122mm versus 94mm.

IMAGE
The image quality comparison may be what matters to most people and I don't think we have seen an image side-by-side comparison between both production lenses. Of course the APO is expected to have better correction of aberrations than the Xeen. We have already seen the 50mm APO prototype with better correction of aberrations than a Cooke lens. The production version is an improvement on the optics and mechanics.

The APO is purpose-built for cinema; the Xeen are stills lenses rehoused and re-coated. I think it will be another month before we see such comparisons from those with access to the APO and any of the competition.



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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri May 13, 2016 12:33 pm

rick.lang wrote:Vic Harris has just posted on BMCuser that SLR Magic has added the APO 25mm Cine and APO 85mm Cine primes to make a three lens set available in Q3 2016. I believe that will coincide with IBC 2016 in September.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Any ideas what the cost might be??? I would be very interested if it's in my range...!!!



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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri May 13, 2016 1:24 pm

Not a lot of fun when Hong Kong is 15 hours ahead of the Pacific time zone. Every email interaction means a day's delay. And it's not like I'm their only customer! And after a few of these exchanges this week, I finally gave my approval of the order so they would have it at the beginning of their workday Thursday, but by the time their invoice was sent to me it's after midnight Pacific time and I'm asleep. Up at 3:30 am Friday to make the payment but that's already 6:30 pm in Hong Kong and now I may not see a shipping notice until Monday. Arrgh! It looks like I'll not be able to test the Mini within the first 30 days of being shipped to me. Hope that's not an issue with my dealer since it sat at the dealers for a week too just getting my other items that were part of the order...

Remember the poster of one vulture to another: "Patience be damned, I'm gonna kill somebody!"


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri May 13, 2016 4:48 pm

rick.lang wrote:PRICE
At this time I believe the 50mm APO prime is only shipping to people with preorders and the preorders were cut off at the end of December 2015. Those 'early adopters' are entitled to special pricing. The lenses that will be available for purchase this year for people ordering now are I believe:
$1,799 for the 50mm APO
$2,499 for the 25mm APO
$2,499 for the 85mm APO.

No prices have been announced for the 32mm expected around the end of the year and the 135mm and a wider focal length, possibly 18mm, expected in 2017. That will complete a six lens set. SLR Magic has not committed to doing a macro APO but that will likely be a larger lens and possibly more costly.

So the lenses individually cost more than a set of Xeen lenses. Hard to judge one 50mm lens against the Xeen set, but looking at the 50mm from each manufacturer, the Xeen 50mm is T1.5 and costs $2,495 versus T2.1 for the SLR Magic APO at a substantial savings (however the other focal lengths are about the same price point).

For people who prefer to wait until there is a minimum three lens set offered as a bundle, I believe, later this year you will be able to buy a bundle consisting of the 25mm, 50mm, 85mm, and a hard carrying case. Have no idea of the price or even if a firm commitment has been made by SLR Magic to do that bundle, but it makes a lot of sense.

HOUSING
They are about the same weight. The Xeen is 114mm OD versus 95mm for the APO. The LOA for the Xeen is about 28mm longer, about 122mm versus 94mm.

IMAGE
The image quality comparison may be what matters to most people and I don't think we have seen an image side-by-side comparison between both production lenses. Of course the APO is expected to have better correction of aberrations than the Xeen. We have already seen the 50mm APO prototype with better correction of aberrations than a Cooke lens. The production version is an improvement on the optics and mechanics.

The APO is purpose-built for cinema; the Xeen are stills lenses rehoused and re-coated. I think it will be another month before we see such comparisons from those with access to the APO and any of the competition.



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Thank you Rick for the information, I wanted to buy the Xeen but i will wait for the SLR, for now i can afford only one lens (because i invest in b4 lens) so hopefully the 50mm from SLR will be available soon
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri May 13, 2016 6:16 pm

rick.lang wrote:"Patience be damned, I'm gonna kill somebody!"


Well, ya know, eventually you'll have the lens in your hands. Don't schedule shoots or advertise you have it until after it is definitely on your person. I can't even pay for mine until June 1 (just bought a DVX200) so you'll definitely have yours before I get mine. Shipped direct, too. No middlemen - which I like. :D But, yeah...it'll be on its way, soon. Definitely a PITA that time offset. Oh, well.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri May 13, 2016 6:21 pm

All will be forgiven when it finally arrives! Jason, I'm having to steal from Peter to pay Paul these days. Next up are the filters for the 50 APO (screw-on) and my Fujinon (4"x4").


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PostFri May 13, 2016 6:26 pm

Tarek Saneh wrote:Thank you Rick for the information, I wanted to buy the Xeen but i will wait for the SLR, for now i can afford only one lens (because i invest in b4 lens) so hopefully the 50mm from SLR will be available soon


If you can be patient, I think you'll like the lenses from SLR Magic. If you are in a hurry, there are good options like the Xeen and especially the CineAlta set that Tristan has. I just bought a Fujinon HA20x7.8B-M10 2/3" Cine zoom in April to use when shooting HD on the Mini 4.6K. Which B4 lens do you have? Apologies if you already mentioned previously, I'm so dead tired I'm ready to star in my first walking dead film.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri May 13, 2016 7:33 pm

rick.lang wrote:If you can be patient, I think you'll like the lenses from SLR Magic. If you are in a hurry, there are good options like the Xeen and especially the CineAlta set that Tristan has. I just bought a Fujinon HA20x7.8B-M10 2/3" Cine zoom in April to use when shooting HD on the Mini 4.6K. Which B4 lens do you have? Apologies if you already mentioned previously, I'm so dead tired I'm ready to star in my first walking dead film.


I have Fujinon XA20sx8.5BERM, i bought it very cheap for only 2500$ from a friend.
i will use it for ENG style shooting with the UM 4.6k, i hope the quality of the image will be as good as the ENG cameras from Sony (PMW 400). I will post a video when i receive my camera, hopefully soon.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostFri May 13, 2016 10:04 pm

Tarek Saneh wrote:i will use it for ENG style shooting with the UM 4.6k, i hope the quality of the image will be as good as the ENG cameras from Sony (PMW 400).

Hey Tarek, I'm using a Fuji HA17x lens with the B4 mount. I've also used the sony 400. The image from UM is better in my opinion. More DR is the biggest difference. There's probably equivalent noise in the blacks, but well under control at ISO800. And there's also the flexibility of codecs.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue May 17, 2016 5:54 am

Tristan Pemberton wrote:Hey Tarek, I'm using a Fuji HA17x lens with the B4 mount. I've also used the sony 400. The image from UM is better in my opinion. More DR is the biggest difference. There's probably equivalent noise in the blacks, but well under control at ISO800. And there's also the flexibility of codecs.


Thanks a lot Tristan for the good news
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostTue May 17, 2016 5:22 pm

Doesn't this look like any PL-EF adapter could work? Once you remove that rear baffle, that is.

slrmagic_apo_rear.jpg
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 18, 2016 12:15 am

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PostWed May 18, 2016 4:02 am

I have the SLR Magic PL->EF mount adapter coming shortly. Ordered it with the 50mm APO. I can report back when I've had a chance to test it.

I think I was getting a bit impatient with the 50mm APO shipment but SLR Magic is taking a few more days to fine tune the aperture ring in the latest production run so it is not so stiff. Worth the wait!


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 18, 2016 7:18 pm

Paul Kapp wrote:I'm sure the SLRM adapter is good quality but it wasn't available when I wanted it.
Cecio adapters are precision made.


Thanks for the input, Paul. I'm sure the SLRM adapter is of good quality, also. But, right now, a bit out of my budget considering I'm buying their three APO lenses this year. I'm completely with you on the Ciecio7 recommendation.
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PostWed May 18, 2016 7:36 pm

The Ciecio7 was SLR Magic's recommendation before they decided to make their own PL->EF adapter.

I wondered about it as well, but I thought it would just take the finger-pointing completely out of the equation if any problems developed related to the use of any adapter with the APO.

I'm feeling the financial crunch too as the additional APO primes are significantly more than I expected. A bargain though compared to the 1.33x ANAMORPHOT CINE primes. I wanted all six APO primes, but not sure now unless they are released one lens every six months (that's how long it would take me to save up for it).


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 18, 2016 10:33 pm

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PostThu May 19, 2016 5:04 pm

Just received my UPS shipping notice for the 50mm APO, PL->EF mount, and SLR Magic Vari-ND Mark II 82mm. Due to arrive early next week.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostThu May 19, 2016 5:18 pm

Congrats Rick!
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostThu May 19, 2016 7:32 pm

If you can wait, the APO's will be a much better investment than the Xeens. The build quality/optics and functionality of the APO's is far better than the Xeens. Breathing is far better as well. The EF to PL adapter is just genius and works very well.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat May 21, 2016 7:46 am

rick.lang wrote:I'm feeling the financial crunch too as the additional APO primes are significantly more than I expected. A bargain though compared to the 1.33x ANAMORPHOT CINE primes. I wanted all six APO primes, but not sure now unless they are released one lens every six months (that's how long it would take me to save up for it).


Rick; but a 25mm lens, on a sensor with the quality of the URSA mini, can function as anything from a 25mm to a 60mm, if you deliver in 2K. From what I've seen windowed 2K raw is perfectly alright; you'll get all the different angles of view and lens perspectives by changing the resolution and frame overlays. Might not be ideal, but less expensive, and the drawbacks are probably compensated for by a few benefits. And since you already have the 50mm, you'll be fine all the way to 120mm S35 equivalent. A single prime lens really could function like a kind of zoom lens, or rather, the sensor like a "zoom sensor", couldn't it? I'm sure someone's gonna say, "No that's not how it works" (especially the part about the lens perspective...), but isn't it, really? Probably would't be advisable on a Hollywood set, though. But they do use the BMPCC and BMCC for certain shots on Hollywood movies, without anyone noticing when they see the finished film.
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PostSat May 21, 2016 6:45 pm

Måns, that's worth thinking about. So a 25mm, 50mm, 85mm set is good for another three (or more) virtual lenses when you consider the option of using a sensor window. I know I won't decide until it's time to order the next three lenses. By then I'll have a better idea of what I need and what I can manage. A very good tripod might be a higher priority. I hear Cine lights are important too!

I'm liking the raw 2K window a lot with the Fujinon Cine zoom for the tests I'm doing this week. ProRes 444 XQ HD window is a different image but quite lovely in its own right. I suspect the 50mm APO will produce a beautiful image either downscaled to 2K from the full sensor (in camera or in Resolve) or shot in a 2K window. Looking forward to seeing the differences for myself. Only concern with shooting 2K/HD windows is the aliasing or moiré that might be better controlled when you start with full sensor or 4K footage. Next week!

Just an observation: while testing all raw flavours and the better ProRes flavours, if you have the images side-by-side, you can see differences; but if you only viewed one flavour, such as ProRes 422 HQ, the image is very good. To me it boils down to the logistics of the shoot. If I can shoot the higher codecs where media capacity and storage are manageable, I'll do it. If I have media and/or storage constraints, going to raw 4:1 or ProRes 422 HQ, is likely going to meet my needs very well.

Pixel peeping and watching video play in real time may give you two different impressions. From my perspective, I'm sure the best way to judge video is viewing the moving images, not a frame grab.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 3:34 am

My 50mm APO arrived late this afternoon. I'll get it mounted on the URSA Mini 4.6K and run some quick tests Wednesday. Finally able to test the open gate 4.6K sensor but will certainly want to exercise the APO lens too especially seeing how well it controls chromatic aberration.

This is a very good-looking lens, nice clean design, mechanics are so smooth. This is the updated lens with the aperture ring drag set like the focus ring drag, previously the aperture ring was stiff.


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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 4:04 am

Outstanding, Rick. Pics or it didn't happen. :D
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 4:06 am

Mañana, amigo.


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PostWed May 25, 2016 7:51 pm

Jason, here you go. SLR Magic on a minimal rig (so much lighter than the Fujinon rig that needed a counterweight). You might notice the Chrosziel fluid zoom doing double duty as a follow focus. That allows me to do a smooth focus between 5.5' and infinity. If I need to focus closer, I disengage the fluid zoom gear from lens focus gear or set a new focus range such as the minimum lens focus to as far as the fluid zoom will reach. I think that's useful at no additional cost.

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:00 pm

rick.lang wrote:Jason, here you go.


So nice! I love how far back the body sits. It's nice to see how good the options offered by the Shoulder Mount Kit are. Your rig would look pretty mean with a mattebox. I love the shiny aluminum PL mount between all the black. That red record button and the gold BMD logo greebles are all neat. Super-nice. Good solution with the Chrosziel zoom gear, too.

That lens looks terrific. It just...looks...right. I bet it feels right, too. It's good to know this next batch has been tweaked a bit. Never buy first generation! lol

dat window light and red bounce doe
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:05 pm

rick.lang wrote:Jason, here you go. SLR Magic on a minimal rig (so much lighter than the Fujinon rig that needed a counterweight). You might notice the Chrozsiel fluid zoom doing double duty as a follow focus. That allows me to do a smooth focus between 5.5' and infinity. If I need to focus closer, I disengage the fluid zoom gear from lens focus gear or set a new focus range such as the minimum lens focus to as far as the fluid zoom will reach. I think that's useful at no additional cost.

Image



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Rick that looks soooooooo hot!!!! :)
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:14 pm

Hot pink! I may not have a Mitchell mount, but at this point the pink yoga block serves that purpose until my VCT-14 plate arrives.


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Donnell Henry

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:16 pm

rick.lang wrote:Hot pink! I may not have a Mitchell mount, but at this point the pink yoga block serves that purpose until my VCT-14 plate arrives.


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:D No i meant your set up. lol Don't forget that jpeg. i would love to see what images that 50mm can produce
Last edited by Donnell Henry on Wed May 25, 2016 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:16 pm

rick.lang wrote:until my VCT-14 plate arrives.


Double-triple check that you're getting VCT-14 and not VCT-14U.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:17 pm

Jason R. Johnston wrote:
rick.lang wrote:until my VCT-14 plate arrives.


Double-triple check that you're getting VCT-14 and not VCT-14U.


hey jason good to see you back around these parts :D
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:18 pm

Jason, thanks for the comments. The lens is so compact it was quite a challenge to get that fluid zoom control to meet the lens' focus gear. But I managed with the support as close to the shoulder mount as it can be. If I move the camera forward to solve that problem, it doesn't balance well.


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rick.lang

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SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:20 pm

Jason R. Johnston wrote:
rick.lang wrote:until my VCT-14 plate arrives.


Double-triple check that you're getting VCT-14 and not VCT-14U.


Ordered the Sony VCT-14 $299.95 at B&H Photo.

Item Qty Item Description
HESUR6282 1 62-82mm Step-Up Ring (#133)
BW486MC86 1 86mm UV/IR Cut 486M MRC Filter
SOVCT14 1 VCT-14 Quick-Release Tripod Adapter



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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:28 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:hey jason good to see you back around these parts :D


Good to be 'round these parts. These are the friendly parts...the parts I like.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed May 25, 2016 9:32 pm

rick.lang wrote:Ordered the Sony VCT-14


Good. Classic Sony. The U14 or 14U is the newer, plastic one that doesn't fit the original. And the BMUMSMK quick release is the classic, proper, original VCT-14.
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSat May 28, 2016 4:12 pm

image.jpeg
image.jpeg (697.2 KiB) Viewed 6210 times


Ciecio7 PL to EF adapter just showed up; days or weeks before I thought it would. Before the port cap, even. Before the lens!
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rick.lang

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun May 29, 2016 2:46 am

Has your lens shipped, Jason?


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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostWed Jun 01, 2016 4:21 am

Not yet. I told them I couldn't complete the purchase until June 1 so they haven't sent an invoice yet. But I'll get it ordered within the week [hopefully]. The PL port cap arrived today...

image.jpeg
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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostSun Jun 05, 2016 7:02 pm

Here is a look at the SLR Magic APO 50mm on the URSA Mini 4.6K PL with the SLR Magic Vari-ND set at maximum ND 1.8 and the aperture at with T2.1 or T2.8 illustrating focus to and from infinity showing lack of breathing, well-controlled chromatic aberration. Exposure set with zebras at 90% or 85% to ensure there was no clipping in a channel. Sky was lightly overcast. Raw open gate but rendered and uploaded as H.264 HD video.



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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jun 06, 2016 7:22 am

Very interesting, Rick. The lens' performance seems to be outstanding. Mine won't be "not yet mine, still" too much longer!
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Kjell Erik Egeland

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Re: SLR Magic APO and Anamorphic Cinema Lenses

PostMon Jun 06, 2016 1:25 pm

What is that strange noise in some of the green areas?
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