Blackmagic Video Assist

Perhaps a future firmware upgrade will add this, peaking and waveform to an already excellent monitor.

Yeah, that would be great!

Excuse me repeating my earlier question, but has anyone used the Video Assist with a Blackmagic Cinema Camera or know if it even works?

Thanks.

Hi Dwayne,

When using the video assist as a monitor with the pocket is it possible to have the VA display a rec 709 image while recording in log on the pocket?

Thinking of buying one to use with my pocket and wanted to see if this was possible.

Best,

Bjorn

Frank, I have tried the VA on the Pocket camera in both film and video mode (have not tried Raw yet, but hdmi output should be the same as Dilm Log). The VA also has SDI inputs/outputs in addition to HDMI. The BMCC and Pocket camera have similar IQ, the BMCC SDI outputs a 10-bit HD-SDI 4:2:2 with choice of Film or Video Dynamic Range signal. When recording is set to 25p or 29.97p with SDI Overlays switched off, the SDI output format is 1080i50 and 1080i59.94 respectively.

The VA can display this range and more, so their should not be any problem. You will, however my need a BNC male to DIN 1.0/2.3 (Mini BNC) male cable to connect the VA to the Cinema camera. The VA has a SD/HD/3G/6G-SDI via DIN 1.0/2.3 connector, so it can display from SD to 4K in both progressive and interlaced format signals (4Kmis down converted to HD by VA on the SDI input). So it should not have any issue displaying the BMCC SDI output. I have tested it with the Pocket camera in both film and video, and the Micro Studio camera in both HD and 4K via SDI, so I see no reason why it should not work with the BMCC. Hope this helps, sorry I do not have a BM Cinema camera to test with. Cheers

Born, while there are not any LUTs as such in the VA, while in film log mode, you can adjust the VA saturation and contrast to get close to a Rec. 709 look, it you want. Personally, I prefer to view on film log mode (B&W even better) because it is easier to check exposure and composition with the flater color look, as the brighter colors get in the way. If you want to do a true color check, then you need a Rec 709 LUT available on a larger on-set/director type monitor. The VA is small, but large enough for a camera monitor for pulling focus and framing your shot.

... Hope this helps, sorry I do not have a BM Cinema camera to test with. Cheers

Thanks for replying, Denny.

I"ve already purchased what I believe are the correct cables three months ago when I preordered. I ordered two as I have two BMCC 2.5. Still waiting for these to arrive. Hopefully, they'll get sent out soon.

just noted "Please ensure your chosen SD card is UHS-1 only." The lower priced is UHS-1, so it should work? The higher priced is UHS-II

This was interesting. I tried with UHS-II card, but Video Assist seems to ignore the card perfectly. I assumed, that it would have used it as speed of UHS-I as it should be backward compatible.

Not working at all with Lexar SDXC Card 128GB 1000x Professional UHS-II.

(Edit: added card info)

You need to check the VA SD card list on BM support page, link at top of the forum. UHS-II Cards are Not on the list. BM states to make sure you use UHS-I cards only!

Thanks, I saw that list and ordered UHS-I card from the list.

How ever, there is no mention of this in the box and even many resellers do recommend UHS-II cards with device. Usually UHS-II cards should work on UHS-I slots, so BMD should also inform resellers about it.

New 1.1 update adds peaking/zebras center crop, timecode over hdmi and more.


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Here's a review, lots of good news always welcome!

http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/11/10/b ... he-masses/



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Great "Stop the Press" get the newspaper out! I will load the update, and report back ASAP.

Now that the firmware update has been released to correct early user's reports of needed missing features, more units should start shipping to stock the shelves in time for Holiday season shopping.

Thanks, I saw that list and ordered UHS-I card from the list.

How ever, there is no mention of this in the box and even many resellers do recommend UHS-II cards with device. Usually UHS-II cards should work on UHS-I slots, so BMD should also inform resellers about it.

Glad you sorted it out. There are instructions about this and other VA features. Make sure you read the instructions which are on the enclosed SD card, which includes the SD card recommendations.
Cheers

Tested video assist (fw 1.1) record triggering with my FS7.

I could not get record to trigger through SDI.

Triggering with 'T/C Run' works for both SDI and HDMI if the FS7's timecode is set to 'Rec Run.' Anything other than 'Rec Run' triggers recording on the video assist when the FS7 stops recording -- which is kinda weird. I also noticed a near half second record start delay and an over 1 second record stop delay.

Yes, you need to set the camera to "Record Run" for time code triggering to work. This is mentioned in the manual instructions on T/C triggering. Does the FS7 support non-T/C triggering for remote recording? Some of these features on a Sony camera only support Sony recorders.

Thanks for confirming T/C triggering works via HDMI now. My AF100 does not send time code out the HDMI, so I was only able to test this on SDI which worked, very little delay, a couple of frames worth perhaps.

Does the FS7 support non-T/C triggering for remote recording?

Yep! The FS7 can send out a REC trigger signal from both SDI and HDMI. It works on an Odyssey 7Q+ so I'm thinking the issue is likely with the video assist... Then again, I never really know with Sony's convoluted menu system.

Thanks for verifying that the feature is indeed working for some systems.

No problem Mark, good luck with it.
Cheers

[CaptainHook]

Tested video assist (fw 1.1) record triggering with my FS7.
I could not get record to trigger through SDI.

Hi, thanks we'll look into this.

Just a quick note to say
I just managed to pick up a video assist in the Uk from a local supplier.
Blown away
Quality, Quality , quality
Great product - great price
Credit where credit is due.
Now
Get on with the bloody 4.6k mini and the micro cinema

Greetings, I would like your help and advice. I am a new to Cinematography and currently I have the Canon HV20. Can I use the Blackmagic VA to record directly from my camera?
Unfortunately the HV20 records on tape and my tape compartment has jammed and needs to be serviced for the second time. Its costly to do that and I would prefer to record on another format rather than that on tape.
First I would like the VA as a recorder and then as a monitor for the time being. I do want to get another camera, but until then, would still like to be able to use my Canon.

If the VA is not for me, could you please recommend me something else or similar. I would really like to record 1080p at 30 or 60 frames if it was possible

Thanks

hv20 does a 1440x1080 (1440 is stretched to 1920 anamorphic ally on playback). I am not sure if it will record to it even though I have both the VA and HV20. I know that the cdmi port does play a clean out 1920x1080 as people were making capture station computers to record it from there through the HDMI, which is why when'd DHSLR's came out, canon made it so that the overlays of the record red dot, etc went out through HDMI. It is possible if the VA recognizes the stretch out from 1440 to 1920.

Well now that's interesting and something I had not thought about thinking that my Canon HV20 would formally retire next year. There could be stylistic reasons to want to shoot with the HV20 (when you want the footage to contrast to the 4.6K footage). Anyone have both pieces of equipment to verify once and for all there is 'life after death?'

Even if the BMVA recorded 1440x1080, there isn't a problem in post effectively to use 'rectangular' pixels rather than the normal square pixels for those clips.

By the way, I've never had tape transport problems on my HV20. Just fear the tapes themselves, high quality miniDV tapes, may become very scarce in my small market town. For example, beginning last year I can no longer locally buy printer ink for my ancient Canon Pixma 9500 Mark II printer. That printer drinks ink like you drink coffee.

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Just a quick note to say
I just managed to pick up a video assist in the Uk from a local supplier.
Blown away
Quality, Quality , quality
Great product - great price
Credit where credit is due.
Now
Get on with the bloody 4.6k mini and the micro cinema

where you get it from, in the UK, ?

I just shipped out the only HDV tape camcorder (JVC) I had access to, so will not be able to test this. But the manual doesn't it will not work. Clayton, can you give it a try?

Meanwhile, Rick you and I both need new printers by the sounds of it!

Good afternoon. I am still waiting for a reply about the bmva. Has anyone still tested it out with an old HD miniDV camera? Or even better with the Canon HV20 like I have?
still waiting for a reply to see if im going to buy it or not
I really hope it works, so that I can use it now and also to use it for my next camera that I might buy.

Thanks yet again.

Yes, a nice idea, but there are two issues with this, first, a EVF loupe would be difficult to see the entire screen through the loupe, without looking from side to side, which is the issue Zacuto say with using loupes in screens larger that 3.5-inches. The SmallHD 4 was about as big a screen you could use a direct loupe on, and with this one, I could not see entire screen image in one look, without scanning with my eye, which becomes fatiguing (eye strain) after a while.

Pro EVF makers know this, and their screens Re usually no bigger than the original Zacuto EVF, which to me is still almost too big with the loupe. With Small HD's new sidewinder EVF, the 501/502 screen is widowed to a 2-inch size image when you flip,the sidewinder in to use it in EVF mode. Both the BM and Zacuto new EVFs use a pen approx. 2-inch screen with the loupe, as did all the ENG EVFs previously.

All loupe is useful on screens that dos not offer ouch in (zoom) to focus, and are really required then to get accurate focus. But, with the new zoom to focus function, the loupe is not necessary. Play with the EVF, make sure to download firmware Ver. 1.1 available on the BM site, and give it a go. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. At worst, a hood of some type will be helpful in outside in full sun situations, but even then, tilting the screen a little, eliminates the glare.
Cheers

Someone else posted using a Cineroid 4FW (new model) Loupe with a simple box between screen and the loupe. I have the Cineroid loupe, will give this a try.
I Agree with you about the finger makes on the screen, but you are not touching it that much, except in two spots, record start/stop and the zoom button in the corner. I have a small Microfiber cloth I keep handy, it quickly wipes the finger marks away, no fluids required.
Cheers

Good afternoon. I am still waiting for a reply about the bmva. Has anyone still tested it out with an old HD miniDV camera? Or even better with the Canon HV20 like I have?
still waiting for a reply to see if im going to buy it or not
I really hope it works, so that I can use it now and also to use it for my next camera that I might buy.

Thanks yet again.

Jimmy, I have an HV20 camcorder too. But no BMVA at this time. The HDV is recorded on miniDV tape as 8bit 1440x1080i50/59.94. So not true full HD, 1920x1080. For programs that recognize HDV (such as Resolve, FCP), they expand the 1440 rectangular pixels to 1920 square pixels. I never understood that when I bought the HV20 since Canon always touted its HD capabilities. That was my first venture into video, and it's not been a fully pleasant trip.

The BMD webpages never specifically mention HDV support although they continually give you the impression they support SD and HD camcorders via HDMI.

The technical specifications indicate the following HD formats:

1280 x 720p50,
1280 x 720p59.94,
1280 x 720p60,
1920 x 1080i50,
1920 x 1080i59.94,
1920 x 1080i60,
1920 x 1080p23.98,
1920 x 1080p24,
1920 x 1080p25,
1920 x 1080p29.97,
1920 x 1080p30,
1920 x 1080p50,
1920 x 1080p59.94,
1920 x 1080p60.
HDMI Color Precision
10-bit
Copy Protection

So it doesn't look like it recognizes the 1440x1080 video data. Easy for someone to confirm at BMD Support if you call your regional sport office. Have you tried to call or email Support?


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Rick, the old HDV cameras should output a 720i50/59.94/60 signal, as that was the original HD TV standard, so it should work with the VA, maybe?

Will the VA work with the Sony FS5 via SDI? I do not know if the FS5 outputs a progressive signal.

Has anyone had issues with the BMVA over HDMI rendering highlights as brighter than they are rendered on other displays?

I've tested this with two BMVA and I'm getting identical results. The exposure seems to be lifted overall when compared with a Small HD DP6, or even the display on the back on the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. Thanks

Rick, the old HDV cameras should output a 720i50/59.94/60 signal, as that was the original HD TV standard, so it should work with the VA, maybe?

The HV20 records either an HDV 1080i60 signal (full HD) or a DV 480i (SD) signal. There's no support that I'm aware of for 720i (US only HD).


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Rick, I was not referring to what the camera records, but rather what he HDMI outputs. I have read that it pot puts a upscale D 1920x1080 signal, one report says it will output 1080p24, another states its in a 60i 2/3 pulldown, and a tenured that it outputs 720p sinal. So, try hooking it nip to a TV and see what the TV displays the video resolution is. In Another post, the HV20 successful revorded to a Ninja via HDMI.
So it very well may work with the VA.
Cheers

I'll take a look later. The manual says the HDMI connection supports playback only on a TV. When you want to record externally, all references are for the HDV/DV connector that is either 1080i or 480i. The manual may be incomplete as it couldn't anticipate these modern recording devices. If you have read there is success, it seems the camera does more than the manual implies.

All output is interlaced. The 1080p24 selection is still actually output as 1080i60. That's what the HV20 does. All in all, it seems it's a sneaky compromised device I would not have bought if I knew anything about video at that time which I did not.

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Rick, if it does output the 2/3 pulldown interlaced signal 60i) then you can record this, and remove the pulldown in post with FCPX, and have a decent 1080p recording. The sample I saw gave good results for a pickup camera, quick shots, etc. Yes, when the camera was made, Covergent design was just starting development of a SDI/HDMI recorder. All the rest used the FW connector back then, and only TV was using HDMI for display, and that early HDMI standard only supported 720P or 1080i connections, which us why your camera outputs the signal in a interlace wrapper with the 2/3 pulldown, and most DSLRs followed suit with the same output scheme. My Panny AF101 can only output 1080p24 as a PSF signal, or with the 2/3 interlace pulldown also.

Give it a try, new life for an old, but decent pioneer camcorder.
Cheers

I have a Canon HV30 and it seems to work perfectly with the Video Assist. Haven't compared the HDV footage with the ProRes side by side yet, but I assume it's a significant bump in quality, cleaner to edit, etc.

If you don't have a tape in it, there's a red tape indicator that shows in the HDMI signal, so for those with a broken tape mechanism, that could be an issue, otherwise the VA would seem to breathe new life into these old cameras. At under $200 for functioning HV30's on eBay ....

I'm guessing the HV20 will work as well as the HV40 which is virtually identical to the HV30 in nearly every way.

Rick, there you go, now get a VA to use with your HV20 (with a tape inserted in it) and your new lens, and go,out and Shoot something...
Cheers

I had to buy a high speed HDMI cable to test this out. Nice that it works. My tape transport is fine so no issues there. Now how do you propose I can mount the new 50mm APO prime on a HV20 camcorder? Radical surgery? Maybe I just need to drink some champagne and everything will be clear!


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Well Rick, I do not think you can actually mount it on the HV20, was kinda of having fun with that one. But, you could,pick up a used BM Pocket camera and mount it on that one, if you do not get your URSA Mini by the time the lens arrives. But, meanwhile you can shoot with the HV20 and the Video Assist!

Hv20 and HV30 output by HDMI a regular fullHD signal, 1920x1080, i had hv20 and actually i kept my old hv30 to read all dv and hdv tapes.
I used bm video card to capture fullHD data from HDMI hv20 and later hv30 from compuer to grab better quality from that old cameras for post and green screen.

Yes, that's what Denny is advising I do and I admit I hadn't even thought about that in the past as I was only thinking of the HDMI out in terms of displaying video recorded on tape on my television. To just stick a tape in the HV20 and record FHD 1920x1080, not HDV 1440x1080, to the BMVA sounds like a decent option if the Mini 4.6K isn't available. Mind you it's still an 8bit 4:2:0 source for the colour, right? Even if the BMVA recorded ProRes 422 10bit, I won't see any more colour than if I had recorded HDV on tape, will I?

Can be plan C. My plan B was the Micro Cinema Camera with BMVA.


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The Canon camera just might output a full 4.2.2, 8-bit signal Rick, the other 4.2.0 8-bit internal recording cameras, can output full 4.2.2, so the recording on the VA will look a little better than the same recorded on tape, and you have a full 1920x1080 resolution on the VA recording, which will help. Use it as cam B, or plan C! Good luck.

Has anyone had issues with the BMVA over HDMI rendering highlights as brighter than they are rendered on other displays?

I've tested this with two BMVA and I'm getting identical results. The exposure seems to be lifted overall when compared with a Small HD DP6, or even the display on the back on the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. Thanks

I don't know if my issue is exactly the same as yours, but I received my BMVA this week and ran a test with a 7D Mk II. I recorded simultaneously to the camera's CF card and to the VA.

I synced the resulting footage and toggled between the two. The VA footage is recorded about half a stop brighter, and highlights clip where camera footage still has detail. Overall the image is a bit muddier, and I'm even seeing rogue hot/dead pixels on some frames.

Now, I haven't had time to contact Blackmagic about this, so I don't know what can be done... but it seems like a lot of problems to just be a bad HDMI cable. I'd love to hear if you've figured anything out since your post.

Picking his thread up again - I have the same issue with the VA over-exposing. I've tried a few HDMI cables from my Sony A7Sii, most recently an expensive 2.0 'pro' cable. Same results whereby bright areas of the image are blown out whilst still showing detail on the onboard camera monitor.

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more - I find myself underexposing as a result if I rely solely on the VA.

Could it be something resolved with a firmware update?