Fan noise

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veryfatjoe

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Fan noise

PostFri Jan 18, 2013 7:30 pm

Just took delivery of my BMCC - it was a long wait and I was thrilled to open the package! Then - the reality of getting to know this device took over. Learning how to get the DNxHD into my Premiere Pro took a few minutes - and - some other issues arose which I was hoping to get responses to from this forum. Issue number 1. Fan noise - is the fan noise normally so loud that it requires an isolation booth to keep the noise out of the audio recording? I used a SONY shotgun mic (ECM-674) and positioned it as far away as I could from the camera and as close to the subject as I could and still could not get the noise out of the recording. Of course, given the noise of the fan the recording using the internal mic was completely useless for audio dialog. Do I have to return the camera because the mic is defective or is this normal for this camera and just use it for video?
Issue number 2. I don't want to return it because I think the video is great for this price. But not being able to have the camera on the set because of the fan noise is very discouraging because it will be picked up by any of the mics in the room. Is there a way to turn it off if only for brief periods during takes?
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David

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Re: Fan noise

PostFri Jan 18, 2013 7:53 pm

Sounds excessive. I can only hear the fan on mine when I'm right next to it. Certainly a mic on the other side of the room doesn't pick it up. You might have a problem.

Are you using a pre-amp?
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veryfatjoe

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Re: Fan noise

PostFri Jan 18, 2013 8:10 pm

Hiya
Thanks for the response!
I did not use a preamp. The sony is an electret design. I used a fresh battery. The mic in was quiet. The noise I was hearing was from the fan of the camera. Hoping that just by replacing the fan it will be a lot quieter on the set.
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JorgeDeSilva

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Re: Fan noise

PostFri Jan 18, 2013 8:15 pm

RED fan is way more loud, but goes down to a low level when shooting. But i'm a little bit annoyed with the sound of bmcc too... For me the fan it's way louder then I expected to be.
Jorge De Silva - Photography & Filmmaking
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sean mclennan

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Re: Fan noise

PostFri Jan 18, 2013 8:33 pm

Congrats on getting your BMCC!!

Are you POSITIVE the fan noise is the camera? You're using a shotgun mic...if placed correctly, the fan noise from the camera should not be showing up. (that's the whole point of a shotgun)

Secondly, how are you recording the sound? Are you wired into the camera or external recorder? Try recording into an external source and turn the camera on and off during recording. That will definitely show you the sound is from the camera.

Lastly, if the sound is coming from your camera, please post the clip here so we can all hear it and determine if it's really out of spec or not.

Cheers
sean
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Seaborn

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Re: Fan noise

PostFri Jan 18, 2013 10:30 pm

Lastly, if the sound is coming from your camera, please post the clip here so we can all hear it and determine if it's really out of spec or not.


+1
please post the sound file i'm really concerned about the noise from the fan!!!
i hope that will not make noise as the old 35mm adapter like red rock micro... this could be a real problem!
Seaborn studio
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Edgar Matos (Rocket)

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 12:09 am

+2

I would like to hear the sound too.
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 3:02 am

Fan noise recorded with in-camera microphone. Music is playing on speakers, which are about 5 meters away.
Attachments
tada.zip
(366.84 KiB) Downloaded 286 times
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 5:27 am

I just shot with 2 of them for 3 days in a greenscreen studio so potentially double the fan noise and while it's louder than I thought it would be, it's not a problem... or it wasnt for us. I wasnt too worried about it.
Paul Del Vecchio - Director/Producer
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Seaborn

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 5:43 am

when using a shotgun mic
or lavalier mic in a small room
does the fan noise goes in the record?
Seaborn studio
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 5:53 am

Seaborn wrote:when using a shotgun mic
or lavalier mic in a small room
does the fan noise goes in the record?


I'll test this with my shotgun mic and let you guys know.
Paul Del Vecchio - Director/Producer
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10s

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 7:17 am

My set recordings are often sensitive enough to hear outside the buildings I'm shooting in. Mics will easily pick up a fan. Refrigerators and air conditioners are way too loud and so will be this if it's humming away. An editor can take some of the buzz away but it's another time intensive task.

Could someone please post a clip with dialogue from a few characters in a quiet intimate conversation for our review?

Thank you,
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John Brawley

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 7:53 am

In a quiet room you will certainly hear the fan. With correct mic techniques it shouldn't be a problem though.

It's about the same or slightly less than an EPIC in record mode @30%, It's probably a little noisier than an Alexa. And certainly less than a RED one.

Unlike an EPIC / RED, the fan on the bmcc is constant.

JB.
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Georgia
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Seaborn

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Re: Fan noise

PostSun Jan 20, 2013 9:40 pm

please someone make a little sample with voice,
I want listen it in the studio and have a workaround!

from the sample it's easy to get the noise out, but there wasn't as lot of audio to restore!
Attachments
tada restoration.mov.zip
(973.52 KiB) Downloaded 172 times
Seaborn studio
https://www.studioseaborn.com
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Christian Schmeer

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Re: Fan noise

PostMon Jan 21, 2013 12:20 am

Seaborn wrote:please someone make a little sample with voice,
I want listen it in the studio and have a workaround!

from the sample it's easy to get the noise out, but there wasn't as lot of audio to restore!


Thanks for posting that restored sample. What software did you use to get rid of the noise?
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
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Seaborn

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Re: Fan noise

PostMon Jan 21, 2013 1:05 am

What software did you use to get rid of the noise?

this was done in Protool HD10 with the use of waves Q10 parametric EQ plugin
reduce the peak noise 2K freq
and a WNS waves noise supression to shape this noise down...

but i want to try it with voice... using a shot gun mic!

Maybe this is why bmc use a 2.3 crop factor to keep the camera away from the mic!! Just kidding!
Seaborn studio
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Fan noise

PostMon Jan 21, 2013 1:55 am

Its always a good idea to record 5-10 seconds of audio at the beginning and end....during this time try to make sure nobody is talking and it is just background noise as this makes it easier to sample and remove.

Whilst it is better to record without background fan noise, it is relatively easy to remove without destroying the audio you are trying to capture.
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Seaborn

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Re: Fan noise

PostMon Jan 21, 2013 4:40 am

easy to remove

yes

without destroying

every time you use a noise suppressor it remove other stuff that needed to get cristal clear sound!
and at 2K, it exactly the point that can create issue with a voice!

but your right!! always get room tone at the same mic level as you shot without any other noise!
Seaborn studio
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Andrew Deme

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Re: Fan noise

PostMon Jan 21, 2013 5:16 am

How much is lost is dependent how it is done....I have had pretty decent success with Adobe Audition :-

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/audition/cs ... -7f30.html

The simplest method is to drop levels based on Spectrum Analysis but as you say, this can result in loss of quality for audio you really want to keep, hence why I am a fan of capturing a noise print and then removing.

A lot like editing RAW DNG's but instead with Audio......
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Fan noise

PostMon Jan 21, 2013 7:03 am

Proper booming technique with a hyper cardioid for indoors delivers just fine results for dialog and interviews, unless you don't try to touch your talents nose with the mattebox. And yeah, that's where the sensor size comes in handy. :mrgreen:

Frank
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I told you so :-)
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Harry Goldhagen

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Re: Fan noise

PostWed Jan 23, 2013 3:44 am

Trying to post sound samples here for "veryfatJoe" but don't know what format to use. The forum doesn't like wav files, it seems. Also, the loud fan noise was heard in the camera mic, much lower in the shotgun mic more than 8 ft away and aimed away from the camera... but still surprisingly loud in a quiet room. Basically, the built in mic would be unusable except for syncing. And for recording quiet things, like classical music or nature, the fan noise would be intrusive.
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Brian T

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Re: Fan noise

PostWed Jan 23, 2013 3:51 am

Fan Noise is a non issue. My Red Scarlets puts out much more noise than my Blackmagic camera.
I can hardly the hear the Blackmagic cam when it's on. Any good shotgun mic is more than enough for proper audio tracking. :ugeek:
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Harry Goldhagen

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Re: Fan noise

PostWed Jan 23, 2013 4:03 am

Aha, I see folks are posting zip files. Here you go:

BMCC cam mic.zip
Built in camera mic
(715.74 KiB) Downloaded 187 times


As for the noise, I guess we've gotten used to solid state equipment like the Sony F3/FS100 and Samurai.
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Bernie Ryan

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Re: Fan noise

PostWed Jan 23, 2013 8:05 am

never had an issue so far, but only shot one interview so far..

shot a german music video clip yesterday in melb, sync was easy as..

no problems with a good mic and external recording
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Harry Goldhagen

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Re: Fan noise

PostWed Jan 23, 2013 10:21 pm

The fan noise seems to be diminishing. I guess it just had to be worn in. Now it sounds about as loud as a Sony F330 - the noise of the spinning XDCAM disk. Noticable in a quiet room, but not like a vacuum cleaner anymore!
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veryfatjoe

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Re: Fan noise

PostFri Jan 25, 2013 4:33 pm

Have been running the BMCC and the fan noise has been diminishing to where it is only a mild intrusion about as loud as any camera with a moving transport or a disc storage like the SONY PDW F330. Yes, it can be heard in a quiet room but would only be an issue if the recording required a silent background - such as a string quartet in a soundproofed studio. Very glad the fan noise has diminished to this level and am looking forward to making use of the excellent video qualities. The audio input sounds free from distortion and to my ears it sounds pleasantly on the warm side - but without any boominess. Of course, using proper recording techniques is still necessary to make sure the sound of the fan is not an issue even when using a shotgun; when using mics like the Schoeps with their full frequency response the narrower pickup patterns may be necessary. I like the sound of their subcardiod capsules but would opt for their hypercardiods when using the BMCC and expect no issues from the sound of the fan.
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Thomas Schumacher

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Re: Fan noise

PostWed Apr 17, 2013 9:50 am

harryllama wrote:Aha, I see folks are posting zip files. Here you go:

BMCC cam mic.zip


As for the noise, I guess we've gotten used to solid state equipment like the Sony F3/FS100 and Samurai.


Did your level of fan noise diminish as well? Git mine just yesterday and am a bit shocked how loud that is - your fan noise in that example seems to be as loud as mine.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/

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