Micro Cinema Camera Existence?

Hello,

I apologize if this is too direct. What's going on with the Micro Cinema Camera?

I've been a Blackmagic product user for some time, so I understand sometimes items get set back. By now we all take that "July" date with the smallest grain of salt.

The silence at this point does seem a bit concerning. Maybe it shouldn't be, but it is.

I'd just simply like Blackmagic to explain what's going on. I remember back to the initial release of the first Cinema Camera and there was a sensor problem and we were all updated on the delay. At least that's being told something.

Again, sorry for being so direct, and this most likely doesn't contribute too much to the community, but as a customer and a user, I think we all deserve to at the very least receive some kind of update.

Complete speculation here, but the idea that Blackmagic might be all-hands-on-deck to get 4.6K sensor products out the door yesterday and that is probably pushing back other products makes sense to me. I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised in a few weeks. I want one, too.

Complete speculation here, but the idea that Blackmagic might be all-hands-on-deck to get 4.6K sensor products out the door yesterday and that is probably pushing back other products makes sense to me. I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised in a few weeks. I want one, too.

that comment hurts me :p
so optimistic and hopefully...I'll take it haha

Maybe it will be delayed so long they'll just roll it in with next year's version, sure to be announced at NAB (with SDI ?!)... Jut kidding...but NAB 2016 really isn't all that far off, lol.

Kinda funny...the absurdity of it all, but then you think about it...and its just pretty sad for all those eager pre-order people. Bummer.

For the last month I am crying myself to sleep every night. I understand things can get delayed. But not this long. And why is BM not transparant about it?

An agency I work with said I was crazy when I told them I had pre-ordererd the BMMCC camera and I was better off with Sony. Not bc quality of the image, but bc BM is unpredictable when it comes to product releases.

I have my entire rig ready, I love the video assist and wooden camera case. All I am waiting for is this crucial little micro guy.

&2@/@;!-?/!!

Koen, you could always get a used BMPCC to tide you over until it actually ships.

Blackmagic makes outstanding cameras that rival their high end competitors and yet you rarely see major productions try to save significant amounts of money by using them and this type of behavior is why. Customer service is CRITICAL for any production - and this is why many spend extra for Canon, Sony, and RED. They know these companies will ship on time, communicate why/if they are unable to, and communicate and address any camera issues immediately. It's not enough to make great products and BMD won't be a major player until they get that.

David, I agree. This is an opportunity for BM to offer additional support contracts for those that can justify it.

It has to be the sensor. The micro studio 4K is out, so the control firmware, case hardware, etc., are all done. The recording capability exists in the BMPCC now. All that remains (and I know this is simplification) is the sensor and global/rolling shutter control. No telling whether this is a major problem that will put the delivery off for several months or a minor issue. I was waiting on one for a drone build, but gave up months ago.

Robert, the rumors seem to indicate that it is a production capacity issue. Apparently BM is using a single contract-manufacturer and they are slammed. So they have prioritized the BMMCC last.

Robert, the rumors seem to indicate that it is a production capacity issue. Apparently BM is using a single contract-manufacturer and they are slammed. So they have prioritized the BMMCC last.

If that's the case, BM should be able to give us a very reliable timeline for production of the BMMCC. They know the pre-order demand for the Ursa mini / 4.6K stuff, they should have a decent handle on production capacity and time, and that means they should have a very good idea (I would imagine within a few weeks) of when the BMMCC will be available (all assuming the cam is ready to go).

Koen, you could always get a used BMPCC to tide you over until it actually ships.

Or as I did, a Micro Studio 4K, you can sue with the VA for some nice HD ProRes shots. Later you can use it as a B camera and tie it into a 4K recorder for a fixed shot in 4K (like a boom shot or?) you can crop/zoom into in post, then Down convert to HD and mix win the Cinema Micro shots.

If that's the case, BM should be able to give us a very reliable timeline for production of the BMMCC. They know the pre-order demand for the Ursa mini / 4.6K stuff, they should have a decent handle on production capacity and time, and that means they should have a very good idea (I would imagine within a few weeks) of when the BMMCC will be available (all assuming the cam is ready to go).

That would be assuming that the 4.6K is in production. But if it is held up till they finish final testing, then when production starts will depend entirely on what final testing reveals. Hopefully they won't find anything that can't be fixed in firmware, and if that is the case then they should start production.

I've been there, and the very last thing you want to do is release a camera with hardware that is not right. Think of it as deliberately building and shipping a car that you know is gonna be recalled. Not a good idea. Could break the company.

And from the looks of it, they are sending out the next wave of cameras for final testing. Let's hope the testers do not find any significant hardware problems.

For what it's worth, BM will be showing off the Micro Cinema Camera at Slamdance! at the Treasure Mountain Inn on Friday, January 22 – Sunday, January 24 from 12:00pm to 4:00pm ( check the 'annoucement' forum for more details).

If that's the case, BM should be able to give us a very reliable timeline for production of the BMMCC. They know the pre-order demand for the Ursa mini / 4.6K stuff, they should have a decent handle on production capacity and time, and that means they should have a very good idea (I would imagine within a few weeks) of when the BMMCC will be available (all assuming the cam is ready to go).

That would be assuming that the 4.6K is in production. But if it is held up till they finish final testing, then when production starts will depend entirely on what final testing reveals. Hopefully they won't find anything that can't be fixed in firmware, and if that is the case then they should start production.

I've been there, and the very last thing you want to do is release a camera with hardware that is not right. Think of it as deliberately building and shipping a car that you know is gonna be recalled. Not a good idea. Could break the company.

And from the looks of it, they are sending out the next wave of cameras for final testing. Let's hope the testers do not find any significant hardware problems.

Then we circle back to the hardware not being ready. If the 4.6K products are not in production, then what would be holding up BMMCC production? That most likely would be a hardware issue, and if so most likely related to the sensor.

For what it's worth, BM will be showing off the Micro Cinema Camera at Slamdance! at the Treasure Mountain Inn on Friday, January 22 – Sunday, January 24 from 12:00pm to 4:00pm ( check the 'annoucement' forum for more details).

The camera was already "showed off," at NAB… Would love to see some footage.

For what it's worth, BM will be showing off the Micro Cinema Camera at Slamdance! at the Treasure Mountain Inn on Friday, January 22 – Sunday, January 24 from 12:00pm to 4:00pm ( check the 'annoucement' forum for more details).

The camera was already "showed off," at NAB… Would love to see some footage.

At this point any news is welcome.

Then we circle back to the hardware not being ready. If the 4.6K products are not in production, then what would be holding up BMMCC production? That most likely would be a hardware issue, and if so most likely related to the sensor.

Because they are trying to bang out as many mini 4Ks as they can. They are sitting on the inventory of both cameras, however one camera brings in three times the money than the other. So figure out what they will want to build first. Probably won't see any BMMCCs until the mini backlog is gone. On the plus side I don't think there is anywhere near as much labor in the BMMCCs as there is in the minis. So they should fill the backlog pretty fast.

Koen, you could always get a used BMPCC to tide you over until it actually ships.

The Wooden Camera rig (Micro Cage) I have doesn't fit the pocket camera, unfortunately. I have built it all around the Micro Cinema.

I got a nice enough cage for my BMPCC for only US$130ish

Koen, you could always get a used BMPCC to tide you over until it actually ships.

The Wooden Camera rig (Micro Cage) I have doesn't fit the pocket camera, unfortunately. I have built it all around the Micro Cinema.

Koen, I have a lightly used BMPCC with the Wooden Camera BMPCC cage and cable clamp set up you can have for $650 plus shipping, camera, cage, et all. PM me. Cheers

They say....if you open the case of the 4.6K camera you will find a Micro inside.

Correct me if I am wrong but the advantages of the Micro Cinema over the Micro 4K are the built-in SD card recorder and the selectable global shutter, right? Is that all?

And the considerably greater dynamic range.


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Yes, yes it is, and the Micro 4K only has a a Video Rec output, but in UHD/4K resolution. The Micro Cinema has Video, film log, and raw recording ability, so dynamic range should be greater.

That said, the Micro Studio has a newer type RS, and acts almost like a RS, with very little of the RS artifacts, the Pocket Camera RS displays. I almost thought the Micro Studio had a GS!

Still no news??

We have seen footage from a few beta cameras given to testers, but very little to date.


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here is new video from micro cinema camera. but seems its a test camera, not a production release

My fear is that the BMMCC will be somewhat obsolete by the time it's actually released. The case in point: I was lined up and excited to purchase this camera, then Sony swept in with the a6300 and diverted my attentions greatly with, what some may argue, a superior camera. 4K internal/external, 14 stops DR, Sony's proprietary ISO algorithms, 120fps, etc, all at the same price point of $1000. Now, there's no Global Shutter on the a6300 but even still it's caused the BMMCC to already show signs of age even before it's in the hands of the consumer.

I understand getting behind the ball when it comes to production and shipping, but at almost a year behind schedule, they can't expect people to wait around forever, and they can't be upset when those same people, upset over having to wait as long as they have, take their money to the competitor.

My fear is that the BMMCC will be somewhat obsolete by the time it's actually released. The case in point: I was lined up and excited to purchase this camera, then Sony swept in with the a6300 and diverted my attentions greatly with, what some may argue, a superior camera. 4K internal/external, 14 stops DR, Sony's proprietary ISO algorithms, 120fps, etc, all at the same price point of $1000. Now, there's no Global Shutter on the a6300 but even still it's caused the BMMCC to already show signs of age even before it's in the hands of the consumer.

I understand getting behind the ball when it comes to production and shipping, but at almost a year behind schedule, they can't expect people to wait around forever, and they can't be upset when those same people, upset over having to wait as long as they have, take their money to the competitor.

BMD is only seven iso months behind schedule, although it seems like a year lol, and I'm sure they won't be upset what so ever if you buy the camera that you truly want.

The sony will be a great camera no doubt. Several of the BMCusers have debated this very topic on the other forum. Both have positives and minuses depending on how and what you're shooting. And the main concern people who normally gravitate towards BMD cameras have with the Sony seems to be the 8bit compressed codec (which others have made a strong argument for). It seems to be that any convince feature a camera has is greatly out weighed buy the RAW at 60fps, global shutter, and superior color science of the BMMCC.

I'm patiently waiting myself. And pretty much all the footage I shoot would benefit from a more versatile run and gun style camera, but I can't get away from the images the BMD cameras produce. I actually enjoy a little extra workflow. It teaches me something every time, and call me crazy, to be honest I like to sit down and edit footage.

The micro cinema is 10bit prores HQ and 12bit Raw. Sony (or Canon) doesn't seem to be too concerned with delivering a better quality internal recording. I'd much rather shoot and grade with 10 bit HD than 420 8bit 4K. Not to mention that global shutter on the micro. Blackmagic, release the beast already!

a million times yes, I will happily trade resolution for the superior color science and dynamic range. i'm not going to dispute the sony claim of 14 stops, but have seen enough slog3 to know that it gets hammered by banding.

would i like to have it all? absolutely. but i know my priorities make the micro cinema camera (and pocket before it) ideal for me right now.

Zak well put, I am with you, +1! Come on BM, we want our Micro Cinema cameras...

uh yeah, see, a video like that just reaffirms (for me) that I'm going to be very happy with the micro cinema camera. this is a matter of taste but i'm preferring its inherent color rendition to the URSA Mini 4.6K (which also looks stellar). I have one pre-ordered. if there are noticeable improvements (beyond the obvious: FPS, GS) over the Pocket, I may get two.

https://vimeo.com/155747487

The footage is really impressive, skin tones caught me completely off guard.

What is the feeling surrounding the Micro in comparison to the URSA Mini 4K?

This footage looks great, you can see the sweat coming off the boxer when he hits the bag. Nice DR, too from inside to outside window shots. Looking forward to getting mine too.

Hi!

Yesterday I received a Micro Cinema body. Right now I am testing as much as I can. I wan't to use it as soon as possible so I want to know every knob and option.

My setup: Micro Cinema (latest firmware), Video Assist (latest firmware), Metabones Speed Booster (BMPCC) and Sigma 18-35 f1.8.

Few questions:

1. Does the jog lever do anything on my Metabones Speed Booster (BMPCC)? I can't get it to do anything. I want to control the iris. The Pocket had much more control over exposure. I get the impression if I don't use the expansion port I don't get to control anything (except ISO and Shutter Angle in the menu).

2. I was under the impression that with an SD card in de camera (not in the assist) I could still trigger a record via HDMI. It's greyed out. I want to record RAW so I need to record internally.

Thanks for any help.

Koen

Hi!

Yesterday I received a Micro Cinema body. Right now I am testing as much as I can. I wan't to use it as soon as possible so I want to know every knob and option.

My setup: Micro Cinema (latest firmware), Video Assist (latest firmware), Metabones Speed Booster (BMPCC) and Sigma 18-35 f1.8.

Few questions:

The Pocket had much more control over exposure. I get the impression if I don't use the expansion port I don't get to control anything (except ISO and Shutter Angle in the menu).

You said you've been testing as much as you can, but haven't figured out that the forward/backward buttons right on the front of the camera control aperture? This is the same exact control over exposure that the pocket camera has.

I'm not sure about the second question because I don't have the video assist. There is a record button on the front of the micro though...

Hi!

Yesterday I received a Micro Cinema body. Right now I am testing as much as I can. I wan't to use it as soon as possible so I want to know every knob and option.

My setup: Micro Cinema (latest firmware), Video Assist (latest firmware), Metabones Speed Booster (BMPCC) and Sigma 18-35 f1.8.

Few questions:

The Pocket had much more control over exposure. I get the impression if I don't use the expansion port I don't get to control anything (except ISO and Shutter Angle in the menu).

You said you've been testing as much as you can, but haven't figured out that the forward/backward buttons right on the front of the camera control aperture? This is the same exact control over exposure that the pocket camera has.

I'm not sure about the second question because I don't have the video assist. There is a record button on the front of the micro though...

Yeah I tried that but with no effect. I just updated the firmware of Speed Booster (2.1) and now it works. I also disconnected it from the body and lens, maybe that was the trick. Don't know but it works now and I'm a happy camper. Thanks for your quick reply! Appreciated.

Ben, Thanks for this update, I figured the EF Spoed booster Iris control issues with the Micro Cinema camera was a SB firmware update issue, thanks for clarifying this.

Koen, now for your question no. 2 in your original post, the Video Assit record button is for starting record on the VA only, it does not trigger the camera recording. Without a SD card in the VA, the Record button will be gray, as it needs a SD card to record. Also, there was some confusion over controlling the camera menus via the VA, due to how this was worded in the BM overview on the Micro Studio camera. The VA only Displays the camera's menu, you can not use the touch screen to control the camera or select menu choices -- you need to use the camera's button to control the camera and the menu selections.

That said, the Video Assist makes a great little monitor for the price. And, yiou can record raw or Film Log in the camera, by pressing the camera's record button and then with a SD card in the VA too, record video Rec 709 output of the camera with overlays turned off to get a video recording also. When used with a camera tha supports Record Trigger or output time code for T/C record trigger, the camera record button will also start recording on the VA.