Ursa Mini Sound Quality

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Que Thompson

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Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostFri Jan 01, 2016 6:43 pm

Has anyone gotten around to checking out the Ursa Mini's sound quality? Has it improved? Is it useable through the XLR inputs?
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostFri Jan 01, 2016 7:57 pm

Did you do a search before posting this?

There's already a thread dedicated to this question...
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41528&p=239787&hilit=ursa+mini+sound+ursa+mini+audio#p239787

...plus others that discuss it, including this:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=41864&p=241648&hilit=ursa+mini+sound#p241648
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Que Thompson

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Jan 02, 2016 1:15 am

Oh am I wasting forum space? The question wasn't answered. People have the cameras now so I thought I'd ask... Go check out the "shipping when" thread if you want to comment on repetitive bs. Other than that STFU!
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Jan 02, 2016 1:24 am

While there have been some audio quality comments in other threads on the URSA Mini, a thread on just the audio quality is a nice idea. Tristan's first ref. above on a URSA Mini Audio thread asked the same question, but it was never answered.
Last edited by Denny Smith on Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zac Gaetano

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Jan 02, 2016 1:45 am

@Que

Normally I wouldn't reply to a really rude comment like that, As a I have my Ursa Mini in my hands right now I would say that the audio quality is decent from the internal microphone, XLR is pretty standard depending on what you are plugging into it. I still prefer a external mixer, I use a Tascam 70D
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Que Thompson

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Jan 02, 2016 3:53 am

Thanks guys, I apologize to the forum. The guy just rubbed me the wrong way.
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Jan 02, 2016 6:19 pm

Zac Gaetano wrote:@Que

Normally I wouldn't reply to a really rude comment like that, As a I have my Ursa Mini in my hands right now I would say that the audio quality is decent from the internal microphone, XLR is pretty standard depending on what you are plugging into it. I still prefer a external mixer, I use a Tascam 70D


Any chance you can post an audio recording of XLR on the mini versus the same mic recorded on the tascam for comparison? Thanks!
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Jan 02, 2016 9:34 pm

Better yet, if a BMUM4K owner could short the mic pins together (make sure it's a solid connection), crank up the gain and record that, it should give an idea of how noisy it is.
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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 8:15 am

Somebody know if i can use at once ursa mini 4K internal microphone and one external XLR microphone? I wanna to record the voice interview with my mono external XLR at channel 1 and the ambience with stereo internal microphone at chanel 2. It is possible?
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Christian Haake

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 8:30 am

Michael Moore wrote:Somebody know if i can use at once ursa mini 4K internal microphone and one external XLR microphone? I wanna to record the voice interview with my mono external XLR at channel 1 and the ambience with stereo internal microphone at chanel 2. It is possible?


No, you can't. Either internal mics or external plugs.
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Howard L Hughes

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 1:26 pm

I wish they had put in a limiter of some sort
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 3:28 pm

That is why I use a SD MixPre D, for the individual channel control and the limiters :D
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Adam Langdon

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostWed Jul 27, 2016 4:28 pm

i just recorded a lengthy narration video with my Ursa Mini 4.6K and a Rode NT-3.

Phantom Power off the camera, and monitored via Sony MDR-7506s.

-Whenever someone bumped the mic stand i got a loud digital-sounding peak in the headphones... weird.
-Listening via the Sonys (which are usually a little top-end heavy) his voice sounded really mid-rangy and not that good ( i had to trust that i had a good mic setup, so i just went with it)
-Mixing in Post, the audio sounded better-than-good. Nice deep lows with clear, even midrange and highs.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 2:34 am

Adam, I found the same thing monitoring my Sannheiser MKH416 with Bose Quiet Comfort headphones in that I was afraid there was so much noise. Now in post, sound actually seems better than when it was recorded (but not as loud). I think the headphones were set to 5% for the loud room and I know they even can be set at 2% so it's not that I had the sound pumped up going to the headphones. A relief to know the recording is better.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 5:27 am

Yes, the monitor amps on all the BM cameras I have used are noisy too, but the recorded sound is quite useable, especially if a good mic preamp is used in the case of the Micors and Pocket camera.
Last edited by Denny Smith on Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 8:03 am

I wanna to use at my wedding cinema project a Konova slider but i have a problem: the microphone record the slider movement noise. What settings help me to avoid this issue?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Jul 28, 2016 5:58 pm

1. Take the mic off the camera and place it forward of the slider, and/or
2. Put mic in a shock mount to reduce vibration induced noise from getting to the mic.

The in-camera mic is going to pick up all the noise from and around the camera, you need to use an off-camera mic or short shotgun style mic, if it is mounted on a shock system mount on the camera.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostFri Jul 29, 2016 1:17 am

Denny, Michael has the Sennheiser MKH416, but I do not know what he is using for the shock mount. My Rycote seemed fine, but I haven't tested it in a sound proof room. It seems there's always ambient noise around a modern city home. You know what they say, there's only four things of which you can be certain: death, taxes, late BMD cameras, and ambient noise!


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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostFri Jul 29, 2016 2:00 am

I know Rick, but he mentioned in a past post about just using the internal mics too. So not sure what he is up to?
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rick.lang

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Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostFri Jul 29, 2016 5:03 pm

If he owns the MKH416, he has two days to find a way to rig it and an on-camera LED light. Using the in-camera mic and not deploying the MKH416 would be disappointing.

An aside:
On my wedding video, while using the shock mount, there is one instance of a 'bump' sound on my audio track. Don't know what caused it, but one bump probably isn't intolerable.


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Lee Jackson

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostTue Aug 09, 2016 4:03 pm

Gotta love those official forum police!!
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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Aug 13, 2016 12:06 pm

How you recommand me to use my MKH 416 Sennheiser microphone as shootgun mic for ursa mini 4K? How to anssamble it? What about Rycote InVision INV-HG mkIII Microphone Suspension?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/880280-REG/Rycote_041118_INV_8_Microphone_Suspension.html
Could be a good idea? Im affraid its not a ergonomically solution. I looking more for a simple suport like TV broadcast camera microphone suport but i dont know the product name...
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Christian Haake

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Aug 13, 2016 3:22 pm

Hi Michael I use the Rycote thing on my EVF, works good.

Over at BMCUSER I posted a few pictures:
http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?16639 ... +ursa+mini
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Aug 13, 2016 3:37 pm

Christian, were you using the MKH416 mic with that Lyre cradle? I read yesterday that someone found it to be too weak for that mic. I use the older elastic suspension style and use the stronger elastics up front and the weaker elastics in the rear so the mic balances level.


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Christian Haake

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Aug 13, 2016 4:54 pm

Hi Rick!

No, I use a Neumann KMR81i and for this one the Rycote is perfect. I was surprised how sturdy it is.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Aug 13, 2016 5:05 pm

Very good.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Aug 13, 2016 5:31 pm

It will,mad long as the mic balances with it.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSat Aug 13, 2016 5:35 pm

Maybe one day I'll get one of those costly but superbly supportive and protective mic holders, but for now the inexpensive elastics and the foam cover are serving me well.


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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 1:15 pm

rick.lang wrote: I use the older elastic suspension style and use the stronger elastics up front and the weaker elastics in the rear so the mic balances level.

Rick, please can show me a pictures or a short movie how you attache the your Sennheiser MKH 416 microphone at yours Ursa Mini?
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rick.lang

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Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 3:04 pm

As I mentioned, I had to mount to the top handle rather than the ⅜" mounting point of the BM Viewfinder due to the size of the cold shoe. The items pictured: Sennheiser MKH416, Rycote Tac!T 60Hz filter cable, Rode SM3 shock mount, Ikan ELE-CS cold shoe.

I also bought a Wimberley 3/8"->1/4" reducer brass bushing when I thought I could mount the cold shoe to the ⅜" mounting point. If I mounted the top handle further back one mounting point, I could use the cold shoe in the ⅜" mounting point, but I need the handle where it is to balance correctly while using the Fujinon zoom.

Image

The mic is mounted far forward trying to minimize any pickup from the camera fan. Strong elastic supports at the front. Although hard to tell in the photo, the mic is perfectly level using the Rode mount's adjustment.

That thing hanging off the thumbscrew in the ⅜" mounting point is my superb pocket LED flashlight from Home Depot (very even illumination) which comes in handy working in low light situations to illuminate whatever settings I have and so on.

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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 9:25 pm

rick.lang wrote:As I mentioned, I had to mount to the top handle rather than the ⅜" mounting point of the BM Viewfinder due to the size of the cold shoe. The items pictured: Sennheiser MKH416, Rycote Tac!T 60Hz filter cable, Rode SM3 shock mount, Ikan ELE-CS cold shoe.

Rick, thank you very much for yours picture and detailed explanation. When i buy the Sennheiser MKH416 i reiceved a 3/8 clamp in the box. Why this its not enought to keep my MKH 416 on ursa mini?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 9:32 pm

You need a shock mount, or the mic will pick up camera handling noise. The mount isolates the mic from any camera movement vibrations. This is really important.
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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 9:49 pm

Denny Smith wrote:You need a shock mount, or the mic will pick up camera handling noise. The mount isolates the mic from any camera movement vibrations. This is really important.

Then what about a microphone holder like this?
http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-system-cameras-other/cac-12/overview/
Can be a solution for ursa mini? What's the difference between this broadcast sistem and the Sennheiser clamp? I don see a shock mount at CAC-12 like at Rycote shock mount.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 9:58 pm

Nope, had these on my Sony ENG camera, has some shock ability, but very limited. Besides, it won't got the UM anyway, mounting holes are for a Sony only. Also, it was designed to fit the Sony ENG broadcast shotgun, which had internal shock suppression, and ENG operators did not move a camera when rolling footage, except for slow pans, so they had minimal camera handling noise to deal with. A Senn, mic is smaller, and does not fit correctly anyway. Sennheiser males a nice shock mount for their mics, not expensive, shoe mount -- get this one! It is a Sennheiser MZS-CAM, $32 at B&H.
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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 10:30 pm

Denny Smith wrote: Sennheiser males a nice shock mount for their mics, not expensive, shoe mount -- get this one! It is a Sennheiser MZS-CAM, $32 at B&H.

Thanks for yours suggestion. I readed one review how make me to think twice at this because i am a run and gun shooter many time.
I quote: "I'm a run and gun shooter, let me start there.The cold shoe is all plastic. One good hit and it broke. Boom, end of it's use. Luckily I had rails so I broke the whole bottom piece off and duct taped the mount on. It stayed much tighter than it did on the shoe mount.
The show mount was always coming loose. Constantly. My sennheiser shotgun was flopping around all over the place. It was great to get such a cheap mount, It worked about as well as I expected for the price. If you are always shooting locked down on a tripod or doing really tame events or something, go for it."
I wanna a ergonomical solution like this https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/47095-REG/Sennheiser_MZS415_3_MZS_415_3_Shock_Mount.html but its more expensive solution and i dont sure if is shock efficient.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 10:49 pm

That requires the MZG415-3 swivel mount that B&H Photo doesn't list. Also if you are in Canada, you can't buy these Sennheiser items from the US. I bought mine from Vistek when they were on sale.


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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 10:59 pm

rick.lang wrote:That requires the MZG415-3 swivel mount that B&H Photo doesn't list. Also if you are in Canada, you can't buy these Sennheiser items from the US. I bought mine from Vistek when they were on sale.

I live in Europe Rick, but not this is the problem for me. The problems is the huge price and if is realy efficient like a biggger shock mount or not.
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Aug 15, 2016 11:12 pm

I went with a less expensive solution overall for mounting and then paid a bundle (relatively) for that special XLR cable with the 60 Hz filter.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostTue Aug 16, 2016 1:51 am

Michael, the Sennheiser shoe on that bracket is Delrin polycarbonate, not just any plastic. Takes quite a hard hit to break one. I have this one, and mine has been used in several ENG cameras, one took a hit to the floor, landed on the mic mount and it did not break, the camera handle trim next to its shoe mount did break. So under normal run and gun use, it should,work well. Holds mic very securely.
A big temp swing will loosen the shoe lock a little, so just reach in and give it a quick twist to retighten. Of yiu want a shorter, robust unit, look at this in B&H, K-Tek Camera Shoemounting Shock Mount for Shotgun Microphones, $76.00

The Sennheiser tube shaped mic mount you found is good, but rhe swivel mount for it was designed for use on a mic stand, not a camera. Not sure how you would mount this on your camera otherwise, but is is listed as a "shock isolation" mount, the inner donut ring is a vibration absorbing sponge rubber material.
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Kristoffer Damkjær

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostTue Aug 16, 2016 8:39 am

I'm really struggling with noise using an NTG-3 and the build in XLR ports. I just made a test in my room. MIC LOW introduces A LOT of noise. Switching to MIC HIGH reduces that quite a bit, but not impressive still. I then switched off the camera, then on and tried again. Now there's almost no noise using MIC LOW, and a bit more using MIC HIGH. Then switched off and tried again. Now it is as bad as the first time. It just seems so random and the noise is NOT ambient noise. It sounds like there's an ocean in my room... Which there isn't. Is anyone experiencing the same problems?
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostWed Aug 17, 2016 5:43 am

Firmware release 4.0 now allows channel 1 and 2 to be very independent including phantom power on only one channel if desired. Might go a long way to removing some of the issues described in this thread.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostWed Aug 17, 2016 6:05 am

Thanks, good to know Rick,
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Michael Moore

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Sep 01, 2016 4:55 pm

rick.lang wrote:Firmware release 4.0 now allows channel 1 and 2 to be very independent including phantom power on only one channel if desired. Might go a long way to removing some of the issues described in this thread.

Rick, you think its posibble to have some day record simultaneous from XLR microphone and internal microphone to CH1/CH2?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Sep 01, 2016 5:34 pm

Capt Hook, can you please comment on this. Is internal vs external mic set up,to be either/or, or as Michael keeps asking can internal mic record on one channel and ext. XLR input to the other channel?
Thanks
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Sep 01, 2016 10:17 pm

Kristoffer Damkjær wrote:I'm really struggling with noise using an NTG-3 and the build in XLR ports. I just made a test in my room. MIC LOW introduces A LOT of noise. Switching to MIC HIGH reduces that quite a bit, but not impressive still. I then switched off the camera, then on and tried again. Now there's almost no noise using MIC LOW, and a bit more using MIC HIGH. Then switched off and tried again. Now it is as bad as the first time. It just seems so random and the noise is NOT ambient noise. It sounds like there's an ocean in my room... Which there isn't. Is anyone experiencing the same problems?


Hi Kristoffer. I've been noticing some intermittent noise on my Ursa Mini 4.6K recordings from a camera mounted ME64. I've been interpreting it as the mic picking up camera fan noise, but I'm starting to think it may be a problem with the camera. Will test next week and post results.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostThu Sep 01, 2016 10:41 pm

Kris, are you using the camera monitor to judge this, or can you hear the noise in the recordings? The cam RA monitor amp is noisy, and not always a reflection of any noise in the recording.
DS
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rick.lang

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostFri Sep 02, 2016 3:28 am

One of the BMD employees recently commented that audio on the URSA Mini is either internal mic stereo (2 channels) or external via the XLR ports (one, two independent or two shared channels).


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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostFri Sep 02, 2016 5:14 am

Yes thanks Rick, I realize that. But, the question is, is this a software limitation, since the two XLR inputs have been separated with firmware change, or is it hardware limitation (the hardware switch is either internal stereo pair or external XLR)?
Michael is under the impression it is a software limitation, BM could change. I,think it is probably a hardware issue, tried to explain that to him, but he keeps asking for a BM rep. response to confirm.
I was hoping to get Capt Hook to comment on this.
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Bill Hall

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostSun Sep 11, 2016 11:36 pm

I have ursa mini 4k using the 4.0 beta software, sounds like the ocean in the head phones, but the recorded sound is clear.

Internal mikes have good volume, XLR inputs currently giving me fits, really low volume at 100% gain.
I am stressed, sound is good in headphones. New problem to overcome. Shot yesterday and really need to fix my sound now.

Does anyone have recommendation to enhance sound about 40 db??
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Denny Smith

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Re: Ursa Mini Sound Quality

PostMon Sep 12, 2016 2:42 am

This will do the trick, a FetHead inline preamp: http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?option ... 33?em_x=22
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