Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Billy Kocher

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Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Feb 12, 2016 10:02 pm

Hi all.. I am new and will be starting off with a PCC and asking for lens opinions. I will be doing 1. Weddings 2. Interviews and 3. Love a lens that can gives me the film look. Eventually I will get an Ursa mini. I want to stay with the Canon EF mount. Yes I will need a good 4/3 to EF adapter too.. As far as lens go, are there any lens out there you guys love or have a "Go to" Lens, or one thats very versatile? Something reasonably priced...I like the Rokinon Lens.. Just not sure which to get.. Thanks everyone for your time and your opinions is appreciated.
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LennartBöwering

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostSat Feb 13, 2016 12:18 am

You could get a Sigma 18-35 with a metabones speedbooster and a dummy MFT-to-EF-adapter. That's practically 2 zoom-lenses and an extremely sharp option for a reasonable price.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostSat Feb 13, 2016 1:47 am

Not to mention that the sigma and metabones combo produces an f1.0 lens that makes this a low light high bokeh monster.

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Andrew Deme

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostSat Feb 13, 2016 4:30 am

For my home handycam Pocket, I use and love just one lens on my pocket, the Sigma 50mm 1.4 Nikon Mount with a Speedbooster and a couple Tiffen (9 & 3) ND's as well as an Hoya UV & IR cut filter. Add to that I have a Kinotehnik VF and a cheap arse PNC grip attached to a Viewfactor Cage with a Rode Videomic Pro bolted to the top.

Best part is that I get to stand off more than would normally be the case and fade into the background almost instantly whilst shooting film quality.

Everyone that used a Bell and Howell would be jealous !!
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Billy Kocher

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostSat Feb 13, 2016 2:24 pm

Thanks everyone lens recommendations were very helpful I checked out the Sigma and "wow" was very, very impressed. That nails what I've been searching for! Will check out the other lens later today. Thank you for your help and knowledge, truly appreciate it!
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:23 pm

Hello folks,

nowhere can I find the maximum safety lens weight for BMPCC. Even in discussions about other cameras people do not agree. I think Pocket has a metal construction inside it that could be solid, but I'm not sure.
I use a simple reduction and a lens that weighs less than 400 grams. Is this safe for this camera?
In my hand I can hold the lens, but it would not be good on a tripod.

pocket lens.jpg
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I used this thread because I do not want to create new ones unnecessarily.

Thank you!
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Jack Fairley

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:39 pm

I use the tripod foot on the BMPCC speedbooster to avoid stressing the camera mount. It has worked fine to date with 800g glass.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:43 pm

That is under 1lb, so you should be OK. The MFT mount is rated by Panasonic and Olympus at about 1.5lbs. That said, this will depend on the lens, longer zooms, etc can exert more leverage on the mount.

My 11-16 Duclos Zoom is under 1.5 lbs, but I still use a lens support (matte box) on the end for tripod work, while not completely necessary, it adds a bit of insurance and rigidly to the rig. You do not want any flexing between the lens and the csmera mount. Handholding, you are usually supporting thenlens in one hand and the camera in the other, so this is good also.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:45 pm

Jack Fairley wrote:I use the tripod foot on the BMPCC speedbooster to avoid stressing the camera mount. It has worked fine to date with 800g glass.


Thank you Jack. I have a camera in the cage and sometimes I have a preview monitor on my camera. It all weighs a lot more.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:47 pm

OK Denny, thank you!

regards
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:48 pm

Ales Kubovic wrote:In my hand I can hold the lens, but it would not be good on a tripod.


I have a BMPCC with View Factor cage, my lens of choice Sigma 18-35 mm with Nikon mount to MFT Metabones speed booster as well as dumb adapter.

I use a Joby Ultraplate 208 Quick Release Plate to support the lens.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... tml?sts=pi
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This can work well in the hand as well as on a tripod.
The plate has several well placed 1/4-20 threaded holes. I have a screw in one of the holes and I can use this when positioned in the right place in relationship to the lens to screw up to meet the lens(with padding) and thus support it. The Sigma lens is rather heavy and I would prefer not find out if the camera mount can hold it.

This plate is Arca Swiss so I have an adapter on my Manfrotto base plate when on the tripod.
This is a lighter way to go.
My alternative set up is to have rods and a lens support bracket. This is a heavier set up.
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 7:01 pm

Ales Kubovic wrote:
Jack Fairley wrote:I use the tripod foot on the BMPCC speedbooster to avoid stressing the camera mount. It has worked fine to date with 800g glass.


Thank you Jack. I have a camera in the cage and sometimes I have a preview monitor on my camera. It all weighs a lot more.


It has been posted on this forum that the tripod foot on the Speedbooster has broken under certain circumstances.
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 pm

Ales Kubovic wrote:In my hand I can hold the lens, but it would not be good on a tripod.


photos of my set up.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 11:26 pm

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4/3 mount on bmpcc actually do not hold in specification my Angenieux 5.9 (weight 1lb - 680g). That's the matter of fact. (Even after I have opened mount and fixed (a bit tight) inside holding spring). The best way is to use as above mentioned arca plate under cage to hold any real (serious) cine lens.

All my cine lenses with any mount (Arri ST, russian OCT 18(19)) first are adapted to Canon FD mount (and FD-4/3 to bmpcc). So I use sipmle screew that holds (via FD mount adapter) any of my lenses in perfect position (even Zeiss Vario Sonnar 10-100).
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 2:07 am

I do something similar Valery, using a Speed Booster adapter or PL mount adapter from Wooden Camera and added a support between camera rails and the lens adapter. You could,do,the same with a long tripod plate also. Good tip, thanks.
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Uli Plank

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 3:30 am

If you know some basics about inertia, you should know that it's not the weight alone: a lens may be well in the limit, but could damage the mount with one single whip pan. So, always play it safe!
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 4:36 am

Yes, I agree Uli, thst is why I add support to most of my cine lenses, the only exception was the small Veydra Mini Primes.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 5:23 am

Thanks folks! You have interesting solutions. It's only good to be careful to avoid tension. All parts are metallic, so they are firmly connected. It's a tenths of a millimeter, not to put too much pressure around. But that's my opinion.

By the way, Olympus produces quite heavy lenses without a tripod foot. For example Olympus M. Zuiko 12-100mm F4 (561 grams)



It is strange that there is no official recommendation for the BMPCC :)
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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 8:31 am

Denny Smith wrote:I do something similar Valery, using a Speed Booster adapter or PL mount adapter from Wooden Camera and added a support between camera rails and the lens adapter. You could,do,the same with a long tripod plate also. Good tip, thanks.
Cheers



This plate is from my S-40 Stedycam. So It takes one minute to fix camera on stedycam back with prime lenses. (On back of the plate under monitor I fix spirit lever for hand held control of the camera horizon. It was good idea for documentary out door shooting.) I use one fixed on plate screew witch (helps to find) holds correct (balanced) position (for Angenieux 5.9) on stedycam. For Zeiss I plan first to use at the end additional QR-50 mount to hold this lens in proper point (but find that it works even as-is). (Longer plate in my case will give no possibility to use original shade for Angenieux.) Thanks.

ps This construction also protect any of your lens, so you can put your camera on the ground in any field sutiation and do not think about your lens. May be this couple of ideas to be helpfull to anybody who want to build his cine system.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 6:19 pm

Nice setups! OK folks, last question. Do I have to make something for these lenses? Are "heavy weight" lenses? :)

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Speedbooster
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nikon 24mm.jpg
Nikon 24mm (326 grams)
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nikon 50mm.jpg
Nikon 50mm (266 grams)
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I know it's difficult to determine, but I'd like to know what's relatively safe.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 6:42 pm

The 24 Nikon May be a good idea, as its weight is out in the front, so it is a lever adding some stress to the mount. Unlikely you would hurt the mount in normal use though, but better to be safe, than sorry. The 50mm is short, so no problem. I have the small Nikon 50 f/1.8 pancake lens, which also works without any required support.
Last edited by Denny Smith on Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 6:59 pm

Now I'm a little afraid if I broke anything. I use it without a support :) But maybe I will try to buy another, lighter lens and I will leave it if I shoot in my hands.

Thank you Denny!
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 7:03 pm

You can add a lens support easily enough, use a rail mounted support if you use the 15mm camera rails, or use a longer tripod plate, and add a little spacer between the SB foot and the plate, and screw them together.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 7:15 pm

OK Denny. Thank you! ;)

Regards
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 7:53 pm

Now the Speedbooster and cage are on the same plane. That might help a little bit. I'm afraid to support the lens at the end because sometimes I have a field monitor (Lilliput A7S) on the cage (the battery is quite heavy) and the tilt of cage on the tripod(the base of the plate is soft) half a millimeter could be at the end of the lens several millimeters. This could make the opposite lever.

kolecko.jpg
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Sorry for my english. I hope you understand me :)
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 9:56 pm

Ales Kubovic wrote: I have a field monitor (Lilliput A7S) on the cage (the battery is quite heavy) and the tilt of cage on the tripod(the base of the plate is soft)


Have you looked at not having the monitor attached to the camera but rather to the leg of the tripod?

I do this with a Mafer clamp
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... tml?sts=pi
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 12:44 am

If you have a full cage on the camera, anything attached to the cage is supported by thencsge, and all pressure is on the cage to tripod mount, this is your weak link. I use cages thst have several mounting points to the cage, like the Wooden Camera Micro csge, that has two mounting pints to the tripod plate.
The lens adapter is attached to the tripod plate, also shifts the pressure of the lens on this,point, and the stress of the lens is now on the adapter. If yiu are using a long or heavy lens, even if a PL mount/adsptermis used, you should have additional support under the lens itself thst is attached to the cage via rails or to the tripod plate. This is where long plates come in handy. I sue a 15mm rsi, system that is part of the cage quick release mounting system to the tripod plate.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 5:13 am

Good idea Leon. OK guys, I'll try to figure something out.

Thanks to all!
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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 2:30 pm

Easy way to check if your 4/3 mount is under a critical load -
1. simply mount your lens to the camera (on tripod)
2. take 5x clock loup and check camera mount to lens connection (in two points) on top and bottom of the mount (try to hold a bit the lens from bottom side). If you see no gap from both sides and nothing changed when you hold the weight of your lens and you do not feel any loose (so that means that every thing is ok). Mechanical tolerance of the mount should be within 0,01- 0,02mm. That means that any diference will be out of specification on film.

Some times this problem depends also from total balance of each lens (+ booster) combination. In case with my Angenieux 5.9 680g - it has very big front glass (mechanical moment to the mount in this case is on maximum level.) Good luck.

ps I think both of your lenses shouldl work directly with out any special support. Check this matter with booster only.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 4:36 pm

Thanks fot the tips Valery! A little moves (eye-watched). But it moves with each lens. I can not estimate the size of the space. I looked at it by lighting white paper beside the camera.

Regards
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 4:48 pm

Ales, I agree with Valery, you are probably going to be fine, as neither lens is very heavy. When you get into larger lenses, you can add additional support. But for the two Nikons, just support the SB and you should be fine.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 4:58 pm

Thanks Denny! I do not think I will be testing it anymore, in the end, not to break it because of repeated attempts and experiments :)

Regards
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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 8:03 pm

Ales Kubovic wrote:Thanks fot the tips Valery! A little moves (eye-watched). But it moves with each lens. I can not estimate the size of the space. I looked at it by lighting white paper beside the camera.

Regards


If your adapter shifts a bit in camera mount it's not to be a big promblem if it has no effect to image when you focuse and change f stops. All (I have couple) adapters from China to be not in specification (main (1) working distance (take adapters only with brand mount on screews, you will be able to adjust it later), (2) diameter (that go to 4/3 camera mount) may be a bit less (that why it may shift inside of camera mount)). (Note that you may have the same situation with out of spec.diameters on both sides of you adapter. Check you nikon lens on original camera to feel the difference.) Better to use the better adapters)) (or check it first). If spring in your camera mount is tight it's not a big problem for 35mm lenses (This point may be a problem to S16 with critical cover of bmpcc chip). To understand that your spring is in specification simply test your adapter on any other couple of camaras. I find that my old Olympus PM1 holds the same adapter much better.

Mount spring in my bmpcc was loose, so I open the mount and make it more tight (make a litle bit better shape in contact points). Screews in your camera mount are not metrical (!), need to find inch tools.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 4:25 am

Thanks Valery! Everything on the camera looks solid. I do not want to unnecessarily disassemble it unless it is necessary.

By the way, this video is quite funny:



The screw was loosened inside that shorted the sensor.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 8:14 am

I know. I have been inside of my bmpcc (need to put on place broken HDMI port.) Good solid body. It seems that sensor cooling system are a tribute to minimalistic school of engineering.
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 8:39 am

I agree. I've solved the HDMI port with hot glue and a short HDMI extension. Just to avoid breaking. I now connect the monitor to standard HDMI on top of the cage.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 9:08 am

To your 24mm Nikon you will need now couple of wider lenses for shooting general plans. If you will stay with fix lenses (10mm - 15mm).
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 10:36 am

Valery Axenov wrote:To your 24mm Nikon you will need now couple of wider lenses for shooting general plans. If you will stay with fix lenses (10mm - 15mm).


I have Olympus M. ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ.

It is sufficient, but not good for low light.
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rick.lang

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Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 10:59 am

Don’t forget you have ISO 3200/6400 available on the BMPCC4K so for those wider focal lengths your f/3.5 will be like f/1.8 or f/2 in terms of exposure compared to shooting at ISO 800 on the original BMPCC which we had to use previously when we needed relatively noise free footage.


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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 11:35 am

rick.lang wrote:Don’t forget you have ISO 3200/6400 available on the BMPCC4K so for those wider focal lengths your f/3.5 will be like f/1.8 or f/2 in terms of exposure compared to shooting at ISO 800 on the original BMPCC which we had to use previously when we needed relatively noise free footage.


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I hope that BM will return back to S16 sensor or I need to sell))) all my treasures (going from my Beaulieu S16mm system.)

Reffer to double iso advantages it's only a half of a deal. You still have (let say) closed (f-stop) lens (you work all the time with sharp deep image). Some times you need to work with wide opened lens for true cinematic look. Better to have also true fast cine lenses. (russian S16 meteor 5-1 (17-69mm) is already 1.9 and very vary cheap))).

Ambrotype on glass 5x7inch / Beaulieu R16 Zeiss VarioSonnar 10-100 T3 /
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rick.lang

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 11:45 am

Beautiful pic, Valery. You are correct the apparently faster aperture due to exposing at the higher ISO retains the depth of field of the f/3.5 for architectural shooting.


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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 12:13 pm

Thanks, Rick. I still hold film in my fridge.
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rick.lang

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 12:26 pm

Ah, Valery, “the times they are a-changing.” Now you’ll be telling the grandchildren , “we put the camera body in the refrigerator!”


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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 12:37 pm

)) Film, vinil records, silver gelatine photographic prints will alive as art medium. I think so with hope, Rick.)
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Ales Kubovic

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 2:41 pm

I dismantled the Pocket. I will clean it a little and I will give more tin to HDMI input. Are you sure you do not know what adhesive is used for that rubber pack? I think the glue should be non-toxic and odorless.
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Valery Axenov

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Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 3:01 pm

Ales Kubovic wrote:I dismantled the Pocket. I will clean it a little and I will give more tin to HDMI input. Are you sure you do not know what adhesive is used for that rubber pack? I think the glue should be non-toxic and odorless.


You can stick it back several times as-is with out any problem.

ps )) I think BM use the same glue as for "sticky traps for rats" but without some not necessary ingradients for BM users (I think).))

If you have some lost of glue at the edges simply take any ordinary resin glue (do not use any argessive one minute glue). I use it for leather if I need to open and service/repare from time to time my old film cameras.

!!! If you have open allready you camera check screews that hold 1/4 mounts on top and bottom of the camera (and better put it on fixative lacquer). It became loose with time (and BM do not fix it as let say 4 3/4 mount screews.) If any of it fall out inside to your camera it may be the END of film.
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Ales Kubovic

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  • Real Name: Ales Kubovic

Re: Pocket Cinema Camera Lens

PostFri Aug 31, 2018 3:42 pm

I think it will be a double-sided adhesive tape. :)

https://www.frogpack.cz/obalovy-material/lepici-paska-oboustranna-50mm-x-10m?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-sO8wc6X3QIVmcmyCh1_gALhEAQYBiABEgIw-fD_BwE

By the way, I tighten all the screws around the sensor. I have a second-hand camera and some idiot maybe used a tripod with a long screw. There's a crack. But it does not matter.

sroub.jpg
sroub.jpg (244.84 KiB) Viewed 5211 times



And all the connectors are through the printed circuit, except the HDMI connector :) Tin does not help much. It catches the top side of the connector.

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