4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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Matthew Silver

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 04, 2017 7:30 pm

Add me to the URSA owners that would want an upgradable turret, since that was, in fact, a major selling point of the camera. I mentioned this elsewhere - one of the things I'm most disappointed in about this isn't even the turret. If you've paid attention to Blackmagic as a camera manufacturer, you'd know that they're not a reliable company whether that's hitting target dates or features. I didn't buy the UM or UMPro for this reason, and I own five Blackmagic cameras. In fact, I would hazard a guess that one of the reasons that the Ursa didn't sell particularly well, at least in part, is that Blackmagic has a reputation overall as a camera manufacturer for being unreliable. When I recommended the Pocket cameras for purchase as field cameras for my film students and the Studio cameras for purchase as replacements for the aging Hitachi's that my program has as our current three camera studio setup, I was shut down because of the reputation of unreliability and lack of durability that Blackmagic has as a camera company. So Blackmagic's early efforts, their lack of clear communication and roadmap, and their consistent failure to "deliver as advertised" have fed into a poor industry and client perception, despite what outliers like John or myself think and recommend. So the lack of clear communication and potential halt of the 4.6K turret - the one thing outside of the firmware that does, in fact, make the Ursa upgradable - that isn't terribly surprising.

No, the thing I'm most disappointed about is the idea that there will be no more firmware updates for the Ursa Major. Without the turret as a possibility, this is the thing that makes the Ursa user upgradable, unless I'm forgetting something. And the firmware for the UM and UMPro looks pretty great. Easier, more streamlined, more effective. So to possibly get shut out of that too - which really renders the camera non-upgradable - that stings as an owner.

And for those suggesting that I take advantage of the UMPro upgrade offer - I'm happy to PM you my email address so that you can send me the money via PayPal to take advantage of it. Not all of us are in a position at any given moment to lay out more capital on a new gear purchase. And who knows how long that window will be open. So although I appreciate the idea from a PR standpoint, it's somewhat useless for a number of owners in reality. And there's where you go back to - people bought a camera sold with certain expectations that were made and re-made over the span of years, only to have the line discontinued for the immediate future with no clear communication on the finality of it. Blackmagic as a company really needs to find a better customer relations/communications/PR/social media strategy, because they're getting hammered on the camera side as far as their reputation because they don't have that in place.
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Marc Bartholomew

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 04, 2017 8:48 pm

Add me to the list too. I bought an URSA V1 PL and also have a Mini Pro with the EF and PL mounts. I can do 4k 80fps with the Ursa, without having to window the sensor. It has global shutter. These are things the mini pro can't do. I'm not sure how BMD can say the UMP is a better option, it's just a different option, and I use both according their strengths when I'm out shooting. The big URSA weighs about the same as an Alexa with 3 screens attached to it, and I am looking forward to the URSA 4.6k turret.
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MarcStory

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri May 05, 2017 4:39 pm

Add me to the list.
We own 2 URSAs. We would buy turret upgrades for both of them.

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Patrick Acum

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri May 05, 2017 11:56 pm

Yep, count me in. I did the rebate but would still love an upgrade for the major - even a small improvement would do it for me!
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robertmanningjr

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 06, 2017 12:25 am

If I am able to speak directly to someone at Blackmagicdesign corporate regarding the turret upgrade, from an owner's standpoint, what would you like me to ask? And please be specific. I'm not saying this is going to happen since I don't count on anything till it actually happens, BUT just in case, please send me suggestions. I want to do my best to represent everyone, even if I don't agree with your point of view.

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Ryan Earl

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 06, 2017 2:07 am

I agree with the earlier posts about the reputation. If you try to rent an URSA or mini they basically say "rent at your own risk, we're not sure it will work." So, I had to go and buy the URSA really to see if it was reliable, easy and fast to use because it seemed like the rental house didn't care if they were renting you a model that might have had issues. I think the real reason is that it undercuts the rental house's potential profit because the price was too low relative to the other cinema cameras.

It's a little faster for me to setup, frame and focus on the built in 10" screen than on the the latest mini pro without an evf. I would try to emphasize to the sales and tech people that they didn't make a dud with the original full size model. I think with the low price of the PL version on eBay the URSA could get a 2nd life with indie shooters who want higher bit depth with a nice roll off.

The potential for anamorphic with higher frame rates over the mini would make it worth it for me to upgrade. An upgradable sensor still makes a lot of sense for owner/operators given how fast new cameras are coming out. It really undercuts rental house profits and larger manufacturers.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 06, 2017 2:29 am

robertmanningjr wrote:If I am able to speak directly to someone at Blackmagicdesign corporate regarding the turret upgrade, from an owner's standpoint, what would you like me to ask? And please be specific. I'm not saying this is going to happen since I don't count on anything till it actually happens, BUT just in case, please send me suggestions. I want to do my best to represent everyone, even if I don't agree with your point of view.

Rob


Rob i would simply ask them not to give up on the turret upgrade. This is an amazing camera that should not disappear. It is a camera built to have a DP/director, focus puller and "Sound guy" work together and have their very own monitor on the camera to do their jobs. I would ask BM to consider this. If they release the turret upgrade, you will immediately see a renewed interest in this camera. New customers will buy into the Ursa knowing there is an upgrade path. The re-sale value would go up. Every original and second hand owner would upgrade their turrets eventually. It will show BM'S resolve (no pun intended) to continue shaking up the industry. I believe turret sales would meet or exceed expectations for BM.
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daniloguate

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 06, 2017 4:52 am

Add me to the list!
We own 4 URSA's and we need the turret


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MartinVidic

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 06, 2017 4:59 am

robertmanningjr wrote:If I am able to speak directly to someone at Blackmagicdesign...


If you get the change, please ask them;
• If they are actively still working on it.
• Will the ursa mini pro loyalty upgrade be PERMANENT if it doesn't happen?
• IMPORTANT... to be transparent about this issue. they owe us more info.
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robertmanningjr

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun May 07, 2017 2:45 am

MartinVidic wrote:
robertmanningjr wrote:If I am able to speak directly to someone at Blackmagicdesign...


If you get the change, please ask them;
• If they are actively still working on it.
• Will the ursa mini pro loyalty upgrade be PERMANENT if it doesn't happen?
• IMPORTANT... to be transparent about this issue. they owe us more info.


Will do!
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James Parker

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun May 07, 2017 9:45 pm

6 ursas and all waiting turrets


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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun May 07, 2017 10:35 pm

It's pointless but add me to the list.
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Mattias Kristiansson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun May 07, 2017 10:44 pm

After reading all this love for the big URSA, I went ahead and bought one :-)
Now I understand why you like it so much! The one I bought is a V1 EF. When I compare the footage to my UM46K, I think the URSA 4K footage somehow looks better after only adjusting levels but before adjusting colors. People who know their stuff say the 4,6K footage grades well, but I'm new to color correction and I struggle a lot with it. I guess I have to to work more on my skills... but the URSA 4K footage is very nice after just a quick lift-gamma-gain in Resolve.
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robertmanningjr

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 4:29 am

Well my phone appointment is today, Monday. I will let everyone what the outcome of that is, and hopefully they will let everyone else know as well.
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Paul R. Williams

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 4:47 am

robertmanningjr wrote:Well my phone appointment is today, Monday. I will let everyone what the outcome of that is, and hopefully they will let everyone else know as well.

Hi Robert, technically I would be interested to hear whether the flange-focal distance for a replacement turret with 4.6K sensor would allow a new turret to be made compatible with the system on the URSA Mini Pro with cheaper EF/PL/etc. exchange ability.
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Andreas Caemmerer

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 5:25 am

Add me to the list too. Still hoping for the turret...
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Joshua Dredge

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 10:45 am

Latest discussion with my retailer, and I quote:

...as well late last week, that Blackmagic will shortly making an official announcement re: 4.6K Turret. No idea as to what it will be.. just waiting to see what they will announce... I will definitely let you know once they let us all know. ...



So will give it another week or two.
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chriswaves

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 3:27 pm

Please add me to this list (URSA / Turret info), thanks.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 4:00 pm

Add me to the list too i want the turret too
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robertmanningjr

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 10:15 pm

Paul R. Williams wrote:
robertmanningjr wrote:Well my phone appointment is today, Monday. I will let everyone what the outcome of that is, and hopefully they will let everyone else know as well.

Hi Robert, technically I would be interested to hear whether the flange-focal distance for a replacement turret with 4.6K sensor would allow a new turret to be made compatible with the system on the URSA Mini Pro with cheaper EF/PL/etc. exchange ability.




So, I had a conversation with Dan May today via telephone for about 45 minutes. It was not what I expected in a good way.

I’m assuming everyone knows, but if not, Dan May is the U.S. President of Blackmagic Design. After I hung up the phone, I felt as if I had a conversation with a friend that owns an URSA and is trying to figure out what went wrong.

So, I’m pleasantly surprised the conversation was not only cordial (friendly), but informative. I also felt that Dan was not holding back, I could be wrong, but my gut was telling me that he was saying EVERYTHING he knew to date (today).

I will do my best to give you all the information I received from him and then tell you, in my opinion, what I think this all means to URSA owners.

Before I get to the meat of this, please understand that Dan May is not the CEO of Blackmagic Design and the CEO, Grant Petty, is going to have the final say if the turret is going to come to fruition. Also, know that I did not bring up any legal ramifications of Blackmagic Design not fulfilling its advertised specs for the camera. All of that was and is laid out in my letter and email to him, but we did not discuss that on the phone. I did address any questions (did my best) that people had on the forum.

Okay, the most important question. It has been communicated to Dan May that the 4.6k turret will happen. It has to happen. Now does this mean it is going to happen? No. It means that they are very actively working on the turret, and he laid out the reasons for the delay.

The part of the conversation that I didn’t expect to happen was the openness to admit that mistakes have been made and that he understands why URSA owners are disappointed. He admitted that the lack of communication is a mistake, announcing the 4.6k turret and URSA was a mistake before that had it completely working, and removing the URSA with many other products from the website was poor timing.

These are things a company without integrity, or that was too big to fail, wouldn’t do. I’m not going to get a call from the U.S. president of Canon, Sony, Apple (U.S. company) or Nikon and have this same conversation. As we are looking for some sort of solution to this problem, so is Dan May.

Now, in my honest opinion, Dan May is seeking a solution, but I’m not sure Blackmagic Design has the same fervor regarding seeking that solution. Dan May made no promises and that’s smart, in my opinion. I did point out the promises that had been made verbally and in writing regarding the URSA and the fact that it was “the world’s first user upgradeable camera”. And so this post doesn’t get too long, everything that we, on this forum, have expressed is accepted as a problem that needs addressing and fixing by Blackmagic Design. They read our posts, he even mentioned some of them in our conversation, and he is trying to find a solution that will make us and the company happy. So, keep posting your concerns and possible resolutions please. They are listening and considering any viable options we may be able to present to them.

Also, if any Australian owners of the URSA can get in contact with the corporate branch of Blackmagic, please do so. Again, I could be wrong, but I feel that Dan May is actively pursuing finding a solution.

Okay, the problem with the 4.6k URSA turret: The 4.6k URSA works, sort of. There is an URSA with a 4.6k sensor and 15 stops of dynamic range BUT, it does not have a working global shutter and the high frame rates are not working. What’s the problem? Dan made sure to say that he is not an engineer, but this is the problem. High frame rates are not working (120 or 240) with the sensor in the URSA. Every time Blackmagic is told by the sensor manufacturer that they have fixed the problem, it is not fixed when they actually put it in the camera. And the biggest problem is that it takes the sensor manufacturer 3 months to get them another ‘fixed/updated’ sensor. This is due to the time it takes to manufacture a silicon chip. So, with that turnaround, Blackmagic can only test 4 sensors a year. And here we are. I asked about a new sensor and Dan said that it was beneficial for Blackmagic to get more out of the 4.6k sensor for cameras to come. And this makes financial sense for the company and good news for the turret coming to fruition.

So, we’re almost halfway through 2017 and there still isn’t a working 4.6k URSA. Will it happen by the end of the year? Well, theoretically, they have two more tries. 2018 seems more viable.

We, URSA owners, are also left with: do we accept rolling shutter; do we accept lower frame rates?

What do we accept?

The URSA is no longer being manufactured, because the sales don’t warrant it. My argument was if the URSA had a 4.6k sensor with the advertised specs, it would still be selling. Here’s one thing I know. It would be the best camera out there for the price.

So, being that this will be the last possible upgrade for the world’s first upgradeable camera, do we accept less than advertised or take what we can get? That’s something we need to answer. The URSA mini pro is not an answer. Blackmagic, I was told, is talking about including a screen with the URSA mini pro upgrade (at a cost) which, to me, is not an answer.

Bottom line, I will give them more time. There is an expected announcement that is supposed to happen regarding this issue. I’ll give Blackmagic a month to see that happen. I will give them to the end of the year to hear a definitive solution/ship date regarding the turret upgrade. If that does not happen, I will pursue getting my money back.

And let’s be clear, especially for those who feel some of us have “entitlement” issues. This is the spec for the 4.6k URSA Camera that Blackmagic said they had and they said were shipping in the 4th quarter of 2015. This is why I, and many, bought the URSA 4k:

“Blackmagic URSA 4.6K EF
Get the URSA camera with the EF lens mount and amazing 4.6K Super 35 image sensor with global shutter and 15 stops of dynamic range. The EF lens mount includes active lens control for compatibility with both active and passive EF mount lenses. URSA EF makes it easy to use a wide range of high quality lenses such as low cost DSLR photo lenses from companies such as Canon, Zeiss and more!
$6,995
Camera Features
Sensor Size
25.34mm x 14.25mm (Super35)
Shooting Resolutions
4608 x 2592
4096 x 2304 (4K 16:9)
4608 x 1920 (4K 2.4:1)
3840 x 2160 (Ultra HD)
3072 x 2560 (3K Anamorphic) 2048 x 1152 (2K 16:9)
1920 x 1080
Frame Rates
Maximum sensor frame rate dependent on resolution and codec selected.
Project frame rates of 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94 and 60 fps supported.
Dynamic Range
15 stops
Focus
Focus button turns on peaking, auto focus available using compatible lenses.
Iris Control
Iris button automatically adjusts the lens iris settings on compatible lenses so no pixel is clipped in lm mode. Scene average auto exposure in video mode.
Lens Mount
EF Mount
Screen Dimensions
1 x 10.1” - 1920 x 1200 2 x 5” - 800 x 480
Screen Type
10.1” - TFT-LCD
5” - Integrated LCD capacitive touchscreen
Metadata Support
Automatic camera data and user data such as shot number, filenames and keywords.
Controls
Touchscreen menus on 5” screen. Push button controls for settings and navigating menus.
Microphone
Integrated stereo microphone.
Speaker
Integrated mono speaker
Mounting Options
Multiple 3/8”-16 UNC thread mounting on top of camera and on handle. Integrated rod mounts compatible with 15mm Light Weight Support standard.”

They must do at least this to be off the hook.

MartinVidic
• They are still actively working on it.
• Don’t know if the loyalty upgrade will be permanent, but this will be addressed (feedback will be considered).
• They admit they owe us more info and it is coming very shortly.

Donnell Henry
They have not given up on the turret upgrade.

Paul R. Williams
My apologies, I did not see your question before my phone call. Dan did mention that the engineers were making sure the back-focus adjustment was correct with the turret, but that doesn’t answer your question.

Again, I must thank Dan May for the call. It shows consideration and sympathy/empathy to a consumer. It shows that Blackmagic Design is not made up of a bunch of suits (Dan’s words) and that they are committed to a resolution to the turret upgrade problem.

Love to hear your thoughts and questions. I’ve left a lot out, but included everything I could in four pages. The turret still has life and in a short time we should have some answers or options.

Excuse any typos. Don’t have time to proofread.
Rob
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rick.lang

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 11:24 pm

Thanks for the update!

Not to start a new thread (please no), but I was amused when Kinefinity showed their 5K model at NAB 2017 with rolling shutter and calmly stated that user selectable global shutter was coming soon in a firmware update. Easier said than done, mate.

The Bluetooth option in the URSA Mini Pro is an example now of only announcing features when they are ready to implement so BMD is on the right track.


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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 11:37 pm

Rob thank you for the info. It is very much appreciated by myself and i'm sure our community of Ursa Owners. To BM, (I speak for no one else but myself ) I'm willing to settle for the same specs as the Ursa mini 4.6k at this point if you can't get 120 or 240 fps in full sensor mode. I want to be able to have 15 stops of dynamic range, and better low light capabilities vs the sensor we have now. Also global shutter is not an issue ..the rolling shutter in the ursa mini 4.6k sensor is fast enough..Not many of us are going to be using the Big Ursa as a run and gun camera and shooting action scenes over the shoulder. We have the Ursa mini for that. This camera is a crew camera and thats one of its main selling points. If those 2 other sensors don't work that is slated for testing in the next couple of months, (and I really hope they do work)..but if they don't, just give us the Ursa mini 4.6k sensor specs in the Big Ursa.

And just for giggles..lets have a little fun with the pricing structure ( Same sensor as the Ursa mini 4.6k)
URSA PL Turret : 1,995
URSA EF Turret : 1,695
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 11:56 pm

+1
Except have a interchangeable mount turret - keeping in line with the pro.

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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 08, 2017 11:57 pm

Ben Mart wrote:+1
Except have a interchangeable mount turret - keeping in line with the pro.

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YESSS thanks ben, forgot that one
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Ryan Earl

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue May 09, 2017 1:10 am

Thanks Rob! Great insight!

I am still a buyer without the higher frame rates or global shutter.

Financially it still makes a lot of sense for me to upgrade for the dynamic range and overexposure ability alone. The purchase price is about the same as a 1 day rental for other high end cinema cameras that it competes with.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue May 09, 2017 3:20 am

robertmanningjr wrote:So, I had a conversation with Dan May today via telephone for about 45 minutes. It was not what I expected in a good way.


Thanx Robert!!! Really great you took your time to post all this info. And thanx for answering so many questions. I liked the additional screen option. I "COULD" live with THAT and if the ursa mini had 120fps in burst mode, even if its only 3 seconds, I would just fly over there and get a mini pro tomorrow. Or swim.. because it's still a lot of money for me.

I'm trying to somehow make the mini work for me (i didn't buy one yet), i was thinking about an additional 7inch screen just for focus pulling. something around 200$ without recording options etc.

Even though I was starting to get really really pissed, BMD will probably still be the best option out there.
No matter if I stay on the ursa major ship or not, it NEEDS an upgrade. some kind of upgrade.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue May 09, 2017 5:30 am

Hey Rob

Great bit of work there, appreciate it ,thanks.

For the record, although it would be great to have the global and high frame rates, if they launched the turret without those I'd still be more than happy with the camera- Alexa doesn't have global shutter and at over 30k starting I don't think it would be under specced in its group- there still wouldn't be anything like it in the price range

If they could do the interchangeable mount like the mini pro I'd consider that a big win
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue May 09, 2017 6:34 am

robertmanningjr wrote:We, URSA owners, are also left with: do we accept rolling shutter; do we accept lower frame rates?
.


Could live with Rolling Shutter, couldn't live with lower than 100FPS.

Your conversation echos everytime I've had to deal with Blackmagic proper - upfront and seemingly reasonable, but I will want results very soon as I'm spending the latter quarter of this year and first quarter of next overseas and won't be able to deal with it then and would rather not put it off for a whole year.
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Andreas Caemmerer

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue May 09, 2017 1:18 pm

Our turret order from April 2015 has been cancelled today...
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue May 09, 2017 11:42 pm

Shot this today for lower manhattan school of the arts..studio session. I'm also teaching these young ladies about filming ..guess what they're learning on...an Ursa V1 4k..shot this today with the Ursa in a Darkly lit studio room..one camera light. Great camera.. but lets make it even better BM!!!
School of the Arts. Ursa 4k V1.png
School of the Arts. Ursa 4k V1.png (665.71 KiB) Viewed 1393 times
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed May 10, 2017 10:16 pm

Thank you Dan May and Robert.

I only use the full frame of my sensor anyway so I have never filmed beyond 60fps on my URSA.

I would call it a worthy upgrade for the turret if done extremely well and not just on paper. Boost the ISO sensitivity even further so we can realistically shoot in natural lighting conditions. Further eliminate noise and grain with 15 stops of dynamic range. I agree with Marc Bartholomew if it can compete with an Alexa and do 4.6K that would be peaches.

I know I may even purchase two more URSA Majors and use them as studio Cameras for live switching on a ATEM Production Studio 4K on Sundays and then use them for ISO Recording shoots in the field when filming feature film.
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Joshua Dredge

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 11, 2017 12:59 am

Brian Gulliver wrote:Thank you Dan May and Robert.

I only use the full frame of my sensor anyway so I have never filmed beyond 60fps on my URSA.


URSA shoots full frame at high frame rates. 120FPS on V2 sensor and 80 on V1 I believe.
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Tim Schumann

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 11, 2017 6:49 am

Thanks for your post robertmanningjr. I’m glad Dan could give you a run down on where we are at and your post gives what looks like a good transcription of the situation I know Dan wanted to explain.

Dan's sentiments in the phone conversation he had with Robert are the same as ours in the camera team. It has been a frustrating project and we apologize for the delay. We understand your frustration and we certainly are listening.  We understand how removing the URSA/Turrets from the web page created a new vacuum where we needed to get some more information for you.

It was a mistake taking the pages on the website down for URSA without explaining why and we are working on rectifying that.

We are hoping to have some good news for you soon, but as I said in my previous post at the start of March, we can't give you a timeline as it is not until we are happy with the results we are getting that we can move forward. Even then there will some work to do to bring the Turret up to being ready for production.

So in the mean time we wanted to put the URSA Mini Pro promotion out there for URSA customers who have waited so long for us to get this done. While it doesn’t neatly package everything up that everyone wanted out of an URSA 4.6k it does give URSA customers that sensor and the ability to step into the latest Blackmagic Design camera and technology at a pretty amazing price.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 11, 2017 2:32 pm

Tim thank you for updating us..I am patiently waiting on when you release the turret. Knowing you guys haven't given up on us is reassuring. I could only imagine the hard work and pressure behind the scenes to make this turret everything you promised.
GODS CREATE
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 11, 2017 6:13 pm

Thank you Tim for the update, it does mean a lot to hear you are still going at it.

Would it be possible to give an idea of how long the mini pro offer will be lasting for?
Thanks
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Johannes Jonsson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 11, 2017 6:45 pm

Thanks for the update Tim.
I always like good news so I hope you will have some more good news for us soon :)
Johannes
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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 11, 2017 11:34 pm

Thanks Tim, I know you guys and gals can pull this turret off. Ta.

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri May 12, 2017 1:03 am

Thanx for the UPDATE!
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Brian Gulliver

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri May 12, 2017 9:50 pm

Tim Schumann and entire team.... THANK YOU FOR THE UPDATE!!!
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri May 12, 2017 11:25 pm

I sure hope I am wrong, but BM may have done it again. Setup its customers for great disappointment by announcing the future availability of a product that is not ready to ship. You would think that by now they would have learned. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Brian Gulliver

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 5:58 am

They communicated exactly what the situation is what else do you want Gene Kochanowsky?... Give them a break.
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Johannes Jonsson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 9:49 am

Brian Gulliver wrote:They communicated exactly what the situation is what else do you want Gene Kochanowsky?... Give them a break.



+1
Johannes
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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 10:03 am

Brian Gulliver wrote:They communicated exactly what the situation is what else do you want Gene Kochanowsky?... Give them a break.

+1

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 1:22 pm

I asked blackmagicdesign a few days ago if i could get a V2 turret (paying for it) since i bought and paid my URSA on the phone after V2 was released, but BHPhoto sent me a V1. My camera was also defect and i had to go through a pretty complicated RMA because i had to travel 1000 miles again which wasn't cheap. There was no way to ship the camera. So the RMA problems wherefore important than the V2 issue. Either way it was ok to use V1 for a few months because i would get that turret : )
But for me, the screens and 120fps were the decision makers.

BM wouldn't give me the V2 either. They said they can't give me the V2 turret YET. "YET"
So maybe it's happening later?

What i think is a good solution is releasing this NON global shutter, 4.6k, 15stops, NON-120fps turret and SELL the V2 turret and even the V1 turret in addition.

1) Because then every Ursa Owner have exactly what ursa mini 4.6 k owners have plus 3 amazing screens.
2) You will also have a turret with 120fps and global shutter (so the only compromise is 4.6K)
3) And if your sensor goes bad (dead pixels etc) and you r on a budget, you can get a V1

Either way i ordered the mini pro now and will probably sell my URSA after i get the mini. I don't have the budget to keep too cameras now. I will also buy extra screens and I feel like chances of BM adding high frame rate burst modes to their newest products are better than the turret in the exact way i need it.

Anst the slightly lower weight will work to my advantage too.
So im compromising FRAME RATE vs WEIGHT and im keeping my investment.

And then maybe an additional production camera for global shutter.... Or something else NON-RAW for higher frame rates. Dont know yet.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Brian Gulliver wrote:They communicated exactly what the situation is what else do you want Gene Kochanowsky?... Give them a break.


I want BM to be a company that keeps their word. The best way to do that without fail is not talk about any product until it is ready to ship. I'm an amateur, so the net result to me when they fail to do what they say is only dissapointment. If I were a pro it could be my business failing. Just as my customers can't do business with me if they can't count on me, how could anyone do business with BM if they can't be counted on.

BM has removed the Ursa and the turret upgrade from their website. Their resellers have removed the turret from their offerings. Either they are misinforming their customers about the future of those products, or they are misinforming them when they suggest that they are still coming out with an Ursa turret.

By now, with all the delays in the release of the turret, I do not need to be told that BM is finding it difficult to create one. That is obvious. I do not even need to be told they are working on it, since they have failed at it for a long time, and it is likely they will keep on failing, so I am not confident in the outcome simply because they are working on it. All I need to be told is that it is shipping. So they either do that, or keep quiet. They already muffed it when they announced a product they were not shipping, there is no point in continuing to do that. Not only is there no point, but by talking about a product they are not shipping, but has for all intents and purposes been discontinued, they are more than likely making matters worse.

They are writing a check to their customers that will bounce.

They should stop saying anything about the turret and either get it done and then announce or let it fade away.

I understand that many want BM to give them hope about the future of their Ursa purchase. It's too bad if they can't see that the only hope is for BM to ship the turret. Because at this point anything else is likely to only create false hope. It's time to move on. Let BM kill the product they are likely to never finish. Since it looks like they have done that in all but deed.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 5:18 pm

Gene, It was the BMD customers that asked for them to talk about what's happening with the turret, for a very long time. Your basically asking them to revert back to a non communication policy, which doesn't work and I'm sure you'll moan about that.

And Dan and Tim gave us an answer. Which they have admitted mistakes and enlighten us on the issues arisen with the turret, which in my books is good enough.

Plenty of filmmakers use and rely on BMD cameras just check out the announcements page also I've seen plenty of commercial music vids posted on this site.

If you own an Ursa I find it hard to believe your telling BMD to drop the turret. Unless you've sold it at a rock bottom price or simply trolling.

My bets on BMD creating the turret.

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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 5:34 pm

I don't think BM is doing their customers any favors by speculating right along with them. Unless the have actual news it is shipping, they should not say anything at all. It may frustrate some customers, but in the long run it leads to the least customer frustration.
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Johannes Jonsson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 5:52 pm

I have also been waiting for some time now but like Ben says, we asked them to talk and they gave us an answer about mistakes and issues which I think is fair of them, and they just told us they are still working on the Turret.
So my bets are also on Blackmagic making the turret.
Johannes
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Matthew Silver

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 8:46 pm

Gene, that method worked pre-internet for companies, but it's a poor strategy for businesses trying to build a larger client base now. As someone who has worked in the PR industry for the last fifteen years, I've seen and helped the change-over for global companies from opaque to transparency with their audience. In the vast majority of the cases, especially for smaller or mid-size brands, transparency is the more effective strategy as it connects the brand more closely with their consumers and, when used effectively, gives them more of an insight into the process which in turn reassures them. It's bonding and it creates brand evangelists because it makes consumers a part of the process. You can see the obvious example of this effectiveness in the crowd funding model.

As I mentioned in an above post, this is not something that Blackmagic does well right now. They're not the size of a brand like Apple, but they treat customer communication like they are. Which creates consumer guesswork, which creates speculation that can rarely be met, which creates dissatisfaction when it's not. This "breadcrumb" approach that they're taking doesn't work well either because it's much too long in between official corporate communications which leads a lot of very vocal people to assume they've given up on something, or abandoned a product, or so on and so forth. More concrete communication, both about the successes and failures that they are experiencing as a company, would go a long way to building customer trust and loyalty. And as a side benefit for people on this forum who are often accused of over defending Blackmagic (sometimes rightfully so), it would go a long way to ease being a supporter.

I'm not sure if this insular internal attitude comes from Dan May, or Grant Petty, or just a communications team that is overwhelmed by the rapid growth, but it really needs to be overhauled for the benefit of Blackmagic's reputation and how they are perceived in the larger industry. Updates like this shouldn't have to come from a customer first only to then be confirmed by a Blackmagic employee after the fact, they should be constant from BM itself. Communication is key and right now, there's not enough of it.

I know that you're referring more to the idea of speculation regarding product release and I feel that same sting from the myriad of missed release dates from Blackmagic. But in the long run, a more frequent official communication strategy would most likely be better for them as a company.

Matthew

PS - Blackmagic, feel free to hire me on as a consultant for PR/Communications. It goes down in the DM Tim Schumann - hook it up!
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat May 13, 2017 9:24 pm

Of course I dont like some of the answers they give me/us. But I REALLY appreciate them getting back to EACH and every one who emails them. Go ahead and ask them if the turret is dead. They will answer that they are still working on it. Looks like the only question is WHAT the turret will be able to do.
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