4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 5:41 am

John.


Thank you for your furthur responses.

It seems that the big URSA becomes the near-future Nissan Cedric or Leyland P76 of cameradom in the stewardship of a shrinking band of enthusiasts or folk who have dived in on a cheap used camera.

I think in the US they have the Ford Edsel and I guess the AJA Cion. Both were perfectly valid but unloved products.

I am curious as to why BM did not offer the existing 4.6K sensor with its global shutter limitations as a common standard across the camera range.

The possible reasons are fairly evident.

In a turret offering, it would cannabalise the sales of the Mini 4.6K camera family for no real gain for the manufacturer and still not entirely satisfy the end-user.

A limited manufacturing run of turret castings likely would cost more per unit than a much larger run of the Mini camera bodies.

Many big URSA owners, in spite of their expressed enthusiasm for a 4.6K sensor will have moved on, especially after the development delays. The inevitable result would be an unsold inventory of 4.6K turrets.

One should count one's blessings. One could have adopted the AJA Cion. That must have been a heartbreak for the people who built it.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 5:55 am

robert Hart wrote:One should count one's blessings. One could have adopted the AJA Cion. That must have been a heartbreak for the people who built it.


I got that impression when I talked to the Cion PM at NAB. With the V3 firmware it turned into a great camera, but the reviews were mostly based on the V1 firmware, which was... not great.

BMD's 4.6K launch didn't help matters, since it had great image quality out the gate (QC problems aside). BMD has a bit of an edge on image processing due to that experience thing...
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Howard Roll

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 8:56 am

I've never shot a frame with the Cion but I was in NYC working and a had a day off so I went to Adorama and I have to say that with a CP and a V-lock that camera felt very natural on the shoulder. Unfortunately the Cmosis chip hasn't impressed many. Good luck Apertus.
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Steven Abrams

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 8:17 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:I asked John a similar question earlier, as I thought I saw him with a picture of a prototype ursa 4.6k on Twitter.

We know there is/was at least one prototype out there.
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1 ... 6K-Footage
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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 18, 2018 9:18 pm

I live in a country where impunity and corruption reign the day. Here, the elite determine the political destiny of the country. Voting is unnecessary, yet a necessary formality to give the populous an illusion of choice. In the last general election, the will of the people was subverted by the greed of the a few power brokers looking to protect their rein on looting public coffers. To that, there was a saying.... "Accept and Move on".

JB said it well.... "move on". As a national of a country with little political choice as URSA owners do with the turret, I say "Accept and move on."

URSA is DEAD.

The take home lesson is next time BM or any manufacture for that matter, promises a product that seems to good to be true, you don't buy in until its in stock, and in the hands of MANY.

5 years ago, BM did great for shaking up the industry with great products at great price points - So did RIM (Blackberry) about 15 years ago. However, RIM ignored a few stakeholder suggestions to adopt android OS when iOS introduced Enterprise solutions. After all, it was only a small segment of the market that was pushing for it. Lets not forget Nokia or even Apple mac pro's/macbook pro current sales. The list can go on but point is, BM roped in many a customer (including us). The cries of a few customers is an acceptable price to pay for good business. For now.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 12:58 am

Steven Abrams wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:I asked John a similar question earlier, as I thought I saw him with a picture of a prototype ursa 4.6k on Twitter.

We know there is/was at least one prototype out there.
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1 ... 6K-Footage


Steven i think that may have been for the Ursa mini
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 1:30 am

Michael Odhiambo wrote:I live in a country where impunity and corruption reign the day. Here, the elite determine the political destiny of the country. Voting is unnecessary, yet a necessary formality to give the populous an illusion of choice. In the last general election, the will of the people was subverted by the greed of the a few power brokers looking to protect their rein on looting public coffers. To that, there was a saying.... "Accept and Move on".

JB said it well.... "move on". As a national of a country with little political choice as URSA owners do with the turret, I say "Accept and move on."

URSA is DEAD.

The take home lesson is next time BM or any manufacture for that matter, promises a product that seems to good to be true, you don't buy in until its in stock, and in the hands of MANY.

5 years ago, BM did great for shaking up the industry with great products at great price points - So did RIM (Blackberry) about 15 years ago. However, RIM ignored a few stakeholder suggestions to adopt android OS when iOS introduced Enterprise solutions. After all, it was only a small segment of the market that was pushing for it. Lets not forget Nokia or even Apple mac pro's/macbook pro current sales. The list can go on but point is, BM roped in many a customer (including us). The cries of a few customers is an acceptable price to pay for good business. For now.


Micheal it’s unfortunate this is the world we live in..in your country as well as mine. Here’s the thing if we accept the behavior you mentioned how will we change it? Like my grandmother used to say “ Closed mouths don’t get fed.
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Asok Kumar

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 1:05 pm

I think that bmd is still producing Ursa4 ,with v1 sensor as it is available in the b&h
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 19, 2018 4:04 pm

Asok Kumar wrote:I think that bmd is still producing Ursa4 ,with v1 sensor as it is available in the b&h


Looks like they are dumping stock. It is marked down $1,500 and is last in the list when sorted by "best sellers". Let's see how low it can go. I'm pretty sure it's not moving because of the PL mount. I doubt anybody that can afford to use PL lenses and buy a new camera would be looking to buy an Ursa. I would consider it if I could buy a 4K V2 EF turret. But BM don't make'm anymore. There probably aren't enough PL Ursas in existence worldwide to make it worth their while to crank up V2 EF turret production.

Products come and products go. Manufacturers like it that way.
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Howard Roll

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 1:01 am

Ursa Mini 4K PL mount......Discontinued? Not looking good for the ol' Cmosis chip.
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RaviRajah

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 am

Yip BH dumping stock only PL version still available. $2995
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Stewart Fairweather

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Feb 21, 2018 3:24 am

*Replying to Robert, Rakesh, and Howard's comments,..

As probably the only Cion owner in Melbourne,....

I can confirm it's an awesome camera, the v1.3 firmware is good, as is the v1.2 firmware,... but the truth is, the best output of the Cion is not given via the Gamma Curves, it's the Gamma Disabled mode, followed by Resolve's OpenFX Colourspace Transform.

Gamma Disabled is the linear sensor output with no colour science applied at all.
The transform also reveals the full dynamic range of the camera.
Set the transform to LogC, it's very easy footage to grade.

It was the gamma curves that led to the uniformed comments and reviews - the reviewers didn't understand the names for the curves - v1.3's major change was renaming the curves to something DSLR shooters would understand.

None of the review sites ever went back and looked at the camera with the later firmware. :(

With the camera on my shoulder, yes, it's balance is near perfect, much more like ENG then any other camera - walking backwards keeping an actor in focus with the lens wide open is practically easy.

Not having to deal with Rolling Shutter Skew, makes editing and post faster.

Truth is though, there are some issues with it though - lack of support from Atomos and Convergent Design is the biggest issue - both promised CineDNG recording and never delivered.


Also, on the Car's analogies - Chrysler never 'closed', it was sold to MMAL, to save the head office. ;)


Now, as for you folks wanting to change turrets,.. is it just the mount, or the sensor?
Because changing the mechanical mount shouldn't be too difficult - I made E and M4/3 mounts for the Cion, fiddly, but not impossible, and adding the 'extra' light of a focal reducer transforms the cmosis sensor.
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Steven Abrams

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:
Steven Abrams wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:I asked John a similar question earlier, as I thought I saw him with a picture of a prototype ursa 4.6k on Twitter.

We know there is/was at least one prototype out there.
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1 ... 6K-Footage


Steven i think that may have been for the Ursa mini

No, at the end of the video it says shot on the ursa 4.6K (not mini) and the footage was also playing on screens at nab that year and they said it was from the big ursa 4.6K. That thread title is also ursa 4.6K footage, not ursa mini 4.6K footage. I guess just ask the guy who shot it. But it was reported that way too.

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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Feb 21, 2018 10:30 pm

Steven, that means they had it working ...Captain Hook posted that. So maybe he’ll chime in here ..I doubt that he will tho.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Feb 21, 2018 11:54 pm

Yeah, I doubt you'll ever hear another word from BM about the turret ever again. It's ancient history.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 5:19 pm

How about a 4K V2 upgrade for those with V1? Is that even a possibility?
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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 6:08 pm

I will just leave this here.
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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 6:12 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:How about a 4K V2 upgrade for those with V1? Is that even a possibility?


No turret, just firmware updates. F the T, it's not coming. That beautiful 10 inch screen with updated exposure assit tools, scrubbing to playback clip,LUT management etc. Whatever is on the UMPro right now.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 6:12 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:How about a 4K V2 upgrade for those with V1? Is that even a possibility?

Ellory, I think if it were possible it would be available. BM sold the Ursa as a replaceable turret product, but to my knowledge, never, ever, sold and shipped a loose turret of any kind for it. If they didn't do it when they were making and selling Ursas, it is extremely doubtful that they would start now after they have discontinued the camera.

It would be something they could announce if they had any intention of doing it, but all one hears is a big *thud* and as each month goes by, another nail is driven into the coffin of the Ursa and its turrets.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 7:33 pm

Is it a possibility, they stopped work on the turret (as it was giving some issues) to focus on the minis. Now that the minis are all out in the wild, they’ll now focus that attention back to the turret?
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 7:41 pm

Probably not, if the Ursa didn't sell in enough numbers to justify the cost of developing the turrets. I don't think that it appeals to most of BMD's market; most people looking at sub-$10K cinema cameras are likely to be single-person camera teams rather than DPs with dedicated camera teams, since they usually can't afford the extra crew.
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Thomas Koveleskie

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Feb 22, 2018 7:43 pm

Michael Odhiambo wrote:
Ellory Yu wrote:How about a 4K V2 upgrade for those with V1? Is that even a possibility?


No turret, just firmware updates. F the T, it's not coming. That beautiful 10 inch screen with updated exposure assit tools, scrubbing to playback clip,LUT management etc. Whatever is on the UMPro right now.


This would be excellent! Now only if it would happen :)
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David Hessel

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 2:12 am

Donnell Henry wrote:Is it a possibility, they stopped work on the turret (as it was giving some issues) to focus on the minis. Now that the minis are all out in the wild, they’ll now focus that attention back to the turret?


You mean after they focused on getting the mini out, then updating to FW 4, then developing the pro, next developing the broadcast mini? No, it is dead. They are not going to spend any more resources on a discontinued product, the only question now is how long ago did they make that decision...
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 4:35 am

The idea of the Ursa was fundamentally flawed. The thought that they could make the Ursa future proof was basically a numskull idea. You have to design and build a camera today, using the parts of today, at today's prices to support the sensors of tomorrow, with their higher data rates, power and thermal requirements and storage sizes. And it's not as if doubling the data rate and size only doubled the cost, that would be one thing. But it usually cost 2.5 to 3 times or more because parts of today for the sensors of tomorrow are bleeding edge parts. Yields are low, so costs are high. Now in a few years they will come down in price, but if you are building a "future proof" camera today, you gotta buy those high end parts today. Even though today's sensor can't make full use of them. You have to make the customer buy something that they may not use for awhile. In the case of the Ursa it was never. And if you flub it, and don't build enough capacity into today's design for tomorrow's sensor, when tomorrow's sensor comes out, what will now be yesterdays parts may not cut it. Which is my guess as to what happened. The same engineers that flubbed the "future proof" design couldn't fess up that they screwed up. Eventually management figured it out, but only after they were put in a very embarrassing situation. I've seen this scenario play out all too many times.

So there you have it. If the Ursa was ever upgradable, it would have been for one new generation of sensors and that would have been it. If you count the 4K V2 sensors then there you go. But the 4.7k sensor was a sensor too far.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 4:50 am

Gene you don’t think the ursa can handle the 4.6k sensor. A few posts up I believe Steven posted a link to Captain Hook showing footage from the ursa with the 4.6k sensor on it. If the body was built for future tech I think it can at least handle the 4.6k sensor. But nothing after that
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Norbert Bielan

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 5:46 am

The only last thread of hope for anyone still believing that any turret is coming is that this thread is somehow still open and hasn't been closed, lol.
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Ellory Yu

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 6:50 am

Thomas Koveleskie wrote:
Michael Odhiambo wrote:
Ellory Yu wrote:How about a 4K V2 upgrade for those with V1? Is that even a possibility?


No turret, just firmware updates. F the T, it's not coming. That beautiful 10 inch screen with updated exposure assit tools, scrubbing to playback clip,LUT management etc. Whatever is on the UMPro right now.


This would be excellent! Now only if it would happen :)


I gave up on the 4.6K Turret, or any future turrets. But I still like using the big URSA. It's been a good camera and I've had a lot of projects on it. The URSA 4K V1 sensor is on the replaceable turret. Why can't BMD just provide/sell the URSA 4K V2 sensor as a replaceable turret and provide the firmware to support it? They already have it. I assume they designed the camera so that it can be easily updated (as advertised). And as Michael said - give us some firmware updates with exposure assist tools, LUT management, and additional codec that they have on the URSA mini firmware, including SSD support? Those that are not 4.6K specific should be easily ported. I think many of us will be contented, I know I would.

Here is another option. How about BMD do a loyalty exchange of all URSA 4K V1 EF camera with a URSA 4K V2 EF camera in their inventory? Maybe charge an exchange fee, say $300-$500. I'll go for that too. Any takers?
I think that sounds fair enough. My deal is that I really don't need a UMP 4.6K. So the current loyalty pricing is just too much for something I don't need. Probably there are a few of you who can relate.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 12:58 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:Gene you don’t think the ursa can handle the 4.6k sensor. A few posts up I believe Steven posted a link to Captain Hook showing footage from the ursa with the 4.6k sensor on it. If the body was built for future tech I think it can at least handle the 4.6k sensor. But nothing after that


The 4.6k sensor has been out for a few years, if they could have used it with the Ursa I think they woulda by now. I mean really, in the interim they somehow managed to produce two new cameras with a 4.6k sensor as well as other cameras. As it has turned out, the Ursa was sensor upgradeable, but only for a similarly sized sensor not for a sensor with 44% or more photo sites. I don't know what the BM engineers did, but if I were tasked with making a product that was supposed to be able to handle future devices I would try to rig working simulators of those supposed future devices to test with the camera so that I could have some kind of idea if I had done it. Even so, there could be innovations that come along in the interim that may require circuitry for things you just didn't anticipate.

Be that as it may, for such a "future proof" camera you will be buying higher specd parts that will cost more, for use with the original sensor which won't use the full capacity of those parts. Sort of a brain dead idea coming from a manufacturer that is trying to push the cost curve down, not up.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 1:05 pm

Ellory Yu wrote:Here is another option. How about BMD do a loyalty exchange of all URSA 4K V1 EF camera with a URSA 4K V2 EF camera in their inventory? Maybe charge an exchange fee, say $300-$500. I'll go for that too. Any takers?
I think that sounds fair enough. My deal is that I really don't need a UMP 4.6K. So the current loyalty pricing is just too much for something I don't need. Probably there are a few of you who can relate.


I think those Ursa 4k v2 EF cameras sold out some time ago. The PL cameras, not yet. I don't know how many PL Ursas BM still has, but it they want to move them without a severe price drop, they might want to convert the turrets to EF, whether they are V2 or not. That is their best hope for dumping what's left of Ursa inventory. But at this point if I were BM and I wanted the Ursa to go away, I would pull all distributor stock back in and scrap the lot.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 5:11 pm

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

;)
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 7:53 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:That is their best hope for dumping what's left of Ursa inventory.


I still think its a great camera for an additional 1000 bucks (free resolve) If you have PL lenses, C fast cards, pletny of V mount batts and a premium tripod :-)
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Feb 23, 2018 9:51 pm

Michael Odhiambo wrote:
Gene Kochanowsky wrote:That is their best hope for dumping what's left of Ursa inventory.


I still think its a great camera for an additional 1000 bucks (free resolve) If you have PL lenses, C fast cards, pletny of V mount batts and a premium tripod :-)


Let's see if this clears out B&H stock of PL Ursas. If not could we see the unit for $500??
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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 25, 2018 9:50 am

QUOTE: "But at this point if I were BM and I wanted the Ursa to go away, I would pull all distributor stock back in and scrap the lot."

Don't put evil ideas in their heads. - More better to do what some of our local vintage car parts folk have been doing and buying back previously exported spares inventory from overseas.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Feb 25, 2018 5:09 pm

robert Hart wrote:QUOTE: "But at this point if I were BM and I wanted the Ursa to go away, I would pull all distributor stock back in and scrap the lot."

Don't put evil ideas in their heads. - More better to do what some of our local vintage car parts folk have been doing and buying back previously exported spares inventory from overseas.


There is nothing stopping vintage camera part people from buying B&H inventory. But somehow I don't think they are gonna do that.
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robert Hart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Feb 26, 2018 8:57 am

QUOTE: "There is nothing stopping vintage camera part people from buying B&H inventory. But somehow I don't think they are gonna do that."

My notion was that BM itself could buy back unsold stock from offshore vendors to provide support for the EOL "big" URSA. It would be a losing proposition for them to do so. The courier costs back to the homeland for entire very heavy "big" URSA cameras would be cruel.

Likewise, the labour cost of scrapping the camera bodies offshore for their parts, then packing and shipping these back to Oz just to extend product support would not be worthwhile.

Those of us luddites who are future-shocked and steadfastly hang on to our "big" URSAs are hardly loyal customers who contribute to ongoing revenue.

Like Eldrad, BM must live. There are practical decisions which must be made for BM's business model not to fail. A lot more people than just "big" URSA owners stand to lose otherwise.

It is probably one of those "for the greater good" things I think. Those of us who have the "big" URSA who have not taken the upgrade discount or cannot do so through being owners of used and disqualified URSA's may have to suck it up and move on.

Sub-$2,000 for a 4K camera with the "big" URSA's practical utility was a pretty good deal for me. Those who paid original price may feel less benign. If they remain qualified for the upgrade and get to keep their original camera for the occasional global shutter need, that is a good compromise.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 12:42 am

I'll bet that BM still has all the tooling, molds, PCB artwork, test fixtures, and anything else needed to manufacture an Ursa. They don't need to pull Ursas in for parts. It's only third parties that wish to support vintage cameras that would purchase existing inventory for parts because it is unlikely that BM would turn over its tooling for their use.

It also seems pretty clear to me that BM wants to move on from all this and put it behind them. But as long as Ursas pop up on major retail websites, it drags on. Because those units when sold still have a manufacturer warranty and they are technically, if not in fact, a replaceable turret camera for which BM, embarrassingly, has no turrets. And as long as Ursas are out there, for sale, with a full warranty, this circus goes on.

I guess the big question for BM is where is the tradeoff between reducing losses from dumping vs the cost of maintaining warranty staff, inventory and space if they continue this drip, drip, drip of unit sales for another year or so because the cameras just aren't moving. And would they want to try giving them away at some point, something that doesn't look good for their brand.

If it were me I would pull in all that inventory just to get it done and over. Then the clock is set for one year from the last sale till it is completely over. Then pack up what's left, scrap it and free up the space, mind space and resources for current and future products.
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Dennis Sørensen

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 1:42 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:The idea of the Ursa was fundamentally flawed. The thought that they could make the Ursa future proof was basically a numskull idea. You have to design and build a camera today, using the parts of today, at today's prices to support the sensors of tomorrow......


I cannot agree more. engineering is about optimization and when building a "future proof" product, what do you optimize for? Today? tomorrow? If building something for the future, you have to overbuild for today, making the product more expensive than needed for today.

In the end, they made some prototypes, but prototypes does not mean in any way, that they could make it work for swapple sensors. It only means they could produces it in the state it was with the sensor it came with.

Look. Business makes mistakes all the time. I would today still rather have BMD told us everything they worked on and have them not deliver it, then today where we don't know anything.. It was one of the things that made me think BMD was different.. I loved BMD did that. But now they don't do that anymore as they have had bad experince with some folks.. It's sad :cry:
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Dennis Sørensen

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 1:44 pm

Have anybody ever seen the Ursa inside?.. The mini had the misfortune to get dropped and cracked the shell, so we got to see the inside. And the BMCC and BMPCC have all been dissasembled.. But the Ursa.. Have we seen that?
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Feb 27, 2018 2:22 pm

Dennis Sørensen wrote:Look. Business makes mistakes all the time. I would today still rather have BMD told us everything they worked on and have them not deliver it, then today where we don't know anything.. It was one of the things that made me think BMD was different.. I loved BMD did that. But now they don't do that anymore as they have had bad experince with some folks.. It's sad :cry:


Dennis, that is where you and I part ways. I am happy that BM has put their big boy pantz on and only announces products that ship. Yes there was a sort of charm to all the drama, but it also put a lot of professional cinematographers in a bind wondering what to do. Often banking on what BM said only to be continually let down. Additionally, the landscape for BM has changed. When BM originally came out with all those groundbreaking cameras at those groundbreaking prices, the cinema camera manufacturing world was asleep. BM was also a nobody in that space, so no one listened to them, so they could call their shots before they attempted them and it didn't matter what happened.

With success comes changes. Others copy you, there is more competition, and calling your shots before you try to make them gives the competition way too much information.

I also like the idea of ordering a camera and it arriving when they say it will. If you are a pro I don't see how you would want it any other way. Pre-order, with no reliable ship date, is for amateurs (which I am BTW).
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Marc Bartholomew

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Mar 11, 2018 3:42 pm

It's well over six months since Grant Petty's statement about the turret: "The upgradable turret mount for the original URSA camera has been delayed due to technical challenges, so while we continue to work on solving these..." Any status on the progress from Tim or anyone else? Kinda feeling left out to dry here.

marc
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 2:43 am

B&H no longer lists the Ursa, and has changed their cine camera icon from the Ursa to the Red.
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 3:27 am

This thread is on the first page and bmd doesnt even care of informing about their final conclusion means one thing only that turret is a fool's dream now. it wont see the light of day mark my words its been too long now it ant coming am sure about it ,before i used to recommend bm products to my circle but after they turned into the most unreliable company in sense of both not delivering promises and qc, never would i ever suggest anyone ever
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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 5:19 am

Just about every major camera maker has had cameras that bombed, even Red, this does not make the company unreliable. :roll:

In a market that is swinging towards “smaller is better”, the big Ursa was just a little to big of a csmera for a very small niche market, and its sales numbers just did not add up,to being profitable enough to continue. BM obviously ran into,some big issue with the 4.6K turret, that could,not be solved, short of a complete rebuild of the camera.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 5:21 am

Its not only about promises, they sucked at qc too
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 5:24 am

Why dont they clearly say that its not coming instead they go on a silent mode which is even worst
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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 5:29 am

It is a BM Policy not to comment on incomplete or current projects under development. They got bit by this once, not again.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 5:31 am

I doubt it is underdevelopment, this is just a facesaving trick until all forget what turret actually was
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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 7:07 am

On a lighter note guys.... they tried. We are production folks here and at least once in our careers ... maybe just once, didn't live up to clients expectations. I, for one, am guilty of that. This was their "once".

Lets wait and see what else they make to help us create.
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haseebdistorxian

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 7:13 am

Michael i agree to what you said but bm is not even giving a clear message, they have kept us hanging. If they failed then i guess they should admit and conclude then giving a 9 months crap that each sensor takes 3 months, and what about the software updates atleast they should give us more options like in minis
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 10:50 am

BM has been sending messages, they have discontinued the Ursa, and they never, ever sold a loose turret for the camera even though some V1 owners would have liked a V2 turret and they were building and shipping V2 turrets but only with cameras. The diehards are angry that BM didn't keep confusing their own market by continually saying one thing and doing another. They are angry that BM doesn't say anything until they can do it. Which means things they are never gonna do, like ship a 4.7K turret, they will never speak of again.

Frankly I don't understand why you would want to do business with a company that says they are gonna do something and continually lets their customers down. Do you want product or promises? Is your idea of a good business transaction tying up your money on a camera on "pre-order" and not getting it for almost a year?

BM has decided that their actions speak louder than words. So they are letting their actions speak for them.

I like it, it keeps them honest automatically, and it also keeps them on task because action talks and bullsh*t walks.
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