4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

If it genuinely is the case that you get the discount and keep the ursa then I think that's a fair deal (I'll wait until I see terms and conditions before I get too excited; fortunately I just found my proof of purchase and invoice)

Of course I now need to look into whether I have the extra 2 and a bit grand Over the turret upgrade in order to take advantage.

On reflection it was a bit disappointing that we're not left with a clear word on the turrets before making our choices.

But the mini pro and new panels look amazing

Please post more info here about the conditions of this discount, I still have my big URSA too !
For the moment I can't find anything about this information...

From B&H:

I was able to get in contact with Blackmagic, while we don't have an official sku for it yet, here are the guidelines we received:


· Must be original owner/ customer
· Promo price $3495
· ONLY on original full size URSA EF & PL
· Blackmagic keeps the old camera (This is incorrect YOU keep your camera)
· Need original receipt with serial number
· Purchase upgrade from reseller that sold the original camera

Please let me know if you require any further assistance.

[Tony Rivera]

As Grant stated in the video, the resellers will be able to provide you information on the upgrade path. You will need to show proof of purchase from authorized resellers and you will also be able to keep the URSA you currently have. So to list it out as Rob did:

· Must be original owner/ customer
· Promo price $3495
· ONLY on original full size URSA EF & PL
· You keep the URSA
· Need original receipt with serial number
· Purchase upgrade from reseller that sold the original camera

Thanks Tony....

Glad I kept my original receipt from B&H as well.

I still like the 10 inch monitor and the sensor upgrade if it ever happens.

So ok, I must buy the new from my seller here in Paris ? (I buy it from a store localy...)

So those of us who purchased from the original buyer are boned. Nice. Real nice.

I bought mine in MAY 2015 after the original owner used it once.

So someone who purchased it and then sold it right away for maybe a small lose gets the discount upgrade and someone like me that's had the camera for 1.5 years +, waiting for the upgrade gets nothing. That's not loyalty?

Vic, can you get the original sales slip from the purchaser? If you registered the serial number then BMD knows you have the camera and they may waive that rule in those circumstances. Worth a try.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vic,

Loyalty would be outlaying on a brand new URSA like many of us did and not being a tight ass and buying a secondhand URSA unit with the intention of upgrading the turret, thinking you would make a saving...

Oh I love how online forums give people some unearned sense that they can be complete assholes to others because of zero real world repercussions.

OK, here we go. Based off your logic, someone that went out last month and bought a BRAND NEW URSA V1 from B&H for $3000 or whatever it was and now can take advantage of the upgrade even though they paid substantially less than me? Or is that different?

As Grant stated in the video, the resellers will be able to provide you information on the upgrade path. You will need to show proof of purchase from authorized resellers and you will also be able to keep the URSA you currently have. So to list it out as Rob did:

· Must be original owner/ customer
· Promo price $3495
· ONLY on original full size URSA EF & PL
· You keep the URSA
· Need original receipt with serial number
· Purchase upgrade from reseller that sold the original camera

So Tony, what if one bought a used URSA from a third party who originally bought it from an authorized reseller and you have both the original receipt from the original purchaser (with serial number on it) and the invoice that was paid to the third party? Why wouldn't that be honored? That sale is a true transfer of ownership. Shouldn't BMD and the reseller go by the Serial Number of the camera and not the prevailing owner? If it is as what you and Rob said, it might be time to consult a lawyer. After all, the reason for the promotion was because the URSA upgrades never happened and that was what was promised to URSA buyers. So BMD still is in non-conformance with their product statement and fulfillment concerning ALL URSAs (bought directly from authorize reseller or indirectly). BMD needs to think of this just as how they deal with warranties where the warranty follows the camera serial number and not the owner.

Another analogy. I bought a used car from someone who bought it from a car dealership. The car manufacturer has a recall. The new owner, me, will be able to bring that same car to the dealership and have the recall address without costing me anymore than it would have cost the original owner. That's because it bares the same VIN. Clear?

Vic,

Loyalty would be outlaying on a brand new URSA like many of us did and not being a tight ass and buying a secondhand URSA unit with the intention of upgrading the turret, thinking you would make a saving...

What a prick? It's called being smart. If you don't want to save, suit yourself and just crawl back into your cave. BMD warrants the camera based on serial number not who owns it. That should be the case with this promotion. It's not about loyalty. To hell with loyalty. It's about breaking their promise and paying up for it. I'm with Vic on this. Maybe a class action suit is in order here.

As Grant stated in the video, the resellers will be able to provide you information on the upgrade path. You will need to show proof of purchase from authorized resellers and you will also be able to keep the URSA you currently have. So to list it out as Rob did:

· Must be original owner/ customer
· Promo price $3495
· ONLY on original full size URSA EF & PL
· You keep the URSA
· Need original receipt with serial number
· Purchase upgrade from reseller that sold the original camera

So Tony, what if one bought a used URSA from a third party who originally bought it from an authorized reseller and you have both the original receipt from the original purchaser (with serial number on it) and the invoice that was paid to the third party? Why wouldn't that be honored? That sale is a true transfer of ownership. Shouldn't BMD and the reseller go by the Serial Number of the camera and not the prevailing owner? If it is as what you and Rob said, it might be time to consult a lawyer. After all, the reason for the promotion was because the URSA upgrades never happened and that was what was promised to URSA buyers. So BMD still is in non-conformance with their product statement and fulfillment concerning ALL URSAs (bought directly from authorize reseller or indirectly). BMD needs to think of this just as how they deal with warranties where the warranty follows the camera serial number and not the owner.

Another analogy. I bought a used car from someone who bought it from a car dealership. The car manufacturer has a recall. The new owner, me, will be able to bring that same car to the dealership and have the recall address without costing me anymore than it would have cost the original owner. That's because it bares the same VIN. Clear?

Exactly. This is 100% correct in the US in terms of Consumer Protection Laws.

BM, I highly suggest you rethink this policy as long as the 2nd party purchaser can show legal documentation of a purchase, an Ebay or Amazon invoice, Paypal receipt documenting the transaction or whatnot. All purchases have to be legal of course.

This will be my last public comment on the matter.

P.S. I've owned 5 BM cameras and they all are fantastic in their own way but this is not right.

Another analogy. I bought a used car from someone who bought it from a car dealership. The car manufacturer has a recall. The new owner, me, will be able to bring that same car to the dealership and have the recall address without costing me anymore than it would have cost the original owner. That's because it bares the same VIN. Clear?

A recall is very obviously not a good analogy here. This isn't BMD fixing a defect, it's BMD trying to do something to make up to customers for not getting a promised OPTIONAL upgrade out the door.

Ellory,

"It's called being smart" really? Pretty sure I'm not the one on here with unrealistic expectations when it comes to buying a second hand product...

Here's another way of looking at it:

Customer purchases the product with the promise of an upgradeable feature, soon to come. Many people bought this camera purely for the promised turret. They paid a figure close to that of the URSA mini 4.6K. The turret never eventuated and the URSA mini 4.6K was released very soon after. How do you think all the original URSA owners felt about that?

Another analogy. I bought a used car from someone who bought it from a car dealership. The car manufacturer has a recall. The new owner, me, will be able to bring that same car to the dealership and have the recall address without costing me anymore than it would have cost the original owner. That's because it bares the same VIN. Clear?

A recall is very obviously not a good analogy here. This isn't BMD fixing a defect, it's BMD trying to do something to make up to customers for not getting a promised OPTIONAL upgrade out the door.

From my perspective, it is equivalent to a defect. There is suppose to be an upgrade and they failed to fulfill. Ask my lawyer, he can tell you how many ways he could spin this bud. By the way, did you just bought an Ursa Mini 4.6K? If so, I can see why.

Here's another way of looking at it:

Customer purchases the product with the promise of an upgradeable feature, soon to come. Many people bought this camera purely for the promised turret. They paid a figure close to that of the URSA mini 4.6K. The turret never eventuated and the URSA mini 4.6K was released very soon after. How do you think all the original URSA owners felt about that?

Well not my problem. I'm a selfish prick so I am thinking I want that turret. Okay, so forget about trying to make good by promoting a new product to make up. How about... Where is that 4.6K turret? I don't care for a UM46 Pro. I hate the form factor and a single screen. I do want the 4.6K turret. That's why I chose to buy an URSA.

This is my last comment on this matter.

Hi,

The 4.6K URSA Turret is still in progress. While we can't provide a definitive timeframe, rest assured that we're working hard on this. It will happen.

THIS IS A BIG LIE!!! This is BMD up to no good. We shouldn't trust what they are selling us. It's all marketing spin. They knew that the turret will never come and so they have to find some new way to appease the URSA owners and at the same time make a new sale. From here on forward the URSA is dead. There won't be even a firmware 4. What BS!

Having slept on it, I'm not sure if I want another camera- although the ursa mini pro would definitely be what I'd get if I did....

I'm leaning toward wanting the ursa with the 4.6 turret upgrade-

The video hints that they are coming, but after nearly two years I'm a little sceptical- can we please have a timeline of when these are planned for release?

I don't think that's too much to ask at this point...

I feel for the guys who bought the used ursa's. As it turns out neither my invoice, nor receipt nor PayPal receipt state the serial number for my camera so I might not be eligible anyway (I bought new from an authorized dealer listed on Bm's website)

"I know this is an older quote, but this still holds true. We are working on this."

Well Tony, you lied to us. You lied to us in a big fat way. I'm thoroughly disappointed. Why would you lie to us. We want a turret upgrade. Not another camera. Or how about just an update to the firmware. You've left us behind. You left us stranded on a cold dark road and now we stand here in the dust of your car pulling away.

Not only were you not working on this, you were working on something completely different.

My heart is broken.

Vic,

Loyalty would be outlaying on a brand new URSA like many of us did and not being a tight ass and buying a secondhand URSA unit with the intention of upgrading the turret, thinking you would make a saving...

Oh I love how online forums give people some unearned sense that they can be complete assholes to others because of zero real world repercussions.

OK, here we go. Based off your logic, someone that went out last month and bought a BRAND NEW URSA V1 from B&H for $3000 or whatever it was and now can take advantage of the upgrade even though they paid substantially less than me? Or is that different?

LOL, sorry I missed this reply Vic. Not being an *******, being realistic... if they've purchased the camera from an authorized retailer then BMD will honour that purchase up to a certain time frame I suspect (prior to announcement). I guess you didn't follow the recent RED saga regarding upgrades etc. Nobody will ever be happy no matter what the outcome. Not one of you were forced to buy a BMD camera. The fact that Blackmagic are even offering this deal is unbelievable!

Sorry but did anyone here actually watch the press conference?? Clearly NOT
Grant stated clearly there are 2 options...

Option 1. Upgrade to the EF/PL Ursa 4.6k turret. (as promised) but no discounted Ursa Mini Pro

or

Option 2. upgrade to an Ursa Mini Pro for a discounted price (with original receipt) and KEEP YOUR OLD URSA

Yea he did say it's basically for original ursa owners that wanted to upgrade now before the upgrade for the turret comes out. Watch the end of the conference ..he speaks kinda fast. But it looks like the turret is still coming. I'm going to upgrade my ursa ..and if/when the turret comes out later I can still upgrade later and have my big ursa.

Sorry but did anyone here actually watch the press conference?? Clearly NOT
Grant stated clearly there are 2 options...

Option 1. Upgrade to the EF/PL Ursa 4.6k turret. (as promised) but no discounted Ursa Mini Pro

or

Option 2. upgrade to an Ursa Mini Pro for a discounted price (with original receipt) and KEEP YOUR OLD URSA

I don't remember option 1 being mentioned. If the promotion does not cater to all URSA cameras, I don't want the URSA Mini Pro option. I want the EF URSA 4.6K Turret.

I contacted my dealer this morning, sent photos of my serial number, sent an invoice and got a call back a few hours later asking if I wanted to proceed.... it's a very tempting offer

A tough decision to make over the weekend. Glad I qualify, wish everyone else who's been on the bench was in the same boat

Sorry but did anyone here actually watch the press conference?? Clearly NOT
Grant stated clearly there are 2 options...

Option 1. Upgrade to the EF/PL Ursa 4.6k turret. (as promised) but no discounted Ursa Mini Pro

or

Option 2. upgrade to an Ursa Mini Pro for a discounted price (with original receipt) and KEEP YOUR OLD URSA

I did, and you're wrong. Nowhere did he say that you'd lose the option of upgrading your Ursa if you took advantage of the Pro upgrade... since you get to keep your Ursa, and the turret isn't available yet.

I contacted my dealer this morning, sent photos of my serial number, sent an invoice and got a call back a few hours later asking if I wanted to proceed.... it's a very tempting offer

A tough decision to make over the weekend. Glad I qualify, wish everyone else who's been on the bench was in the same boat

if you need another camera and like the ursa style you'll be foolish not to. Orginal ursa owners waited for the ursa turret upgrade - take advantage of the offer.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Breath deeply everyone. I'm sure current holders of the URSA will reap the benefit. The serial number is on the camera you have, so a photo of that plus a record of your purchase should suffice. The tricky part is having to order the camera from the original dealer as the dealer may be absorbing some financial hit on these discounts.

But give BMD some time to work it through. If they don't, it's going to leave a bad taste and those customers may never come back. And future customers reading these comments that are easily searchable on the internet will be dissuaded from entering the market. Some manufacturers do nothing for current customers to entice them to buy new equipment, others do quite a lot to ensure the customer has a discount if they upgrade to a new product.

Even for those URSA owners who take the UMP46 discount and keep their URSA, they are clearly able to upgrade the URSA 4K by adding a new 4.6K turret when those are released at a later date.

I do suspect this offer will be time limited of course perhaps to end in a few months at most and the current ownership of the URSA 4K must be before March 1, 2017.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good the turret is still coming!!! I dont have any money to invest into the turret right now anyway, so for me it doesn't matter if its a few more month. Just feel sorry for those who needed it asap and pre-oredered.

About the upgrade

1) I would NEVER EVER give away that 10inch display... NEVER.
2) I Got used to the weight and love the size of the big URSA.
3) I need the higher frame rate and and the ursa mini pro doesn't give me that either.

So the ursa mini pro is basically a broadcaster camera? good for black magic to get into that game too, just not what i need. I guess the big ursa will stay #1 for a while... I like hat : )

The good thing is that black magic keeps pushing CAMERAS all together. so they will also keep pushing their flagship camera, hopefully to even better turrets int he future.

I prefer the big ursa with all the screens especially the 10 inch. what happens when the mini pro is outdated? you buy another camera again?

I like the idea of upgrading the turret instead of switching to a whole different camera. I have been buying cameras and equipment for 34 years now. Tired of it.
Let's get the turret working and on the market as promised BMD.

[Tim Schumann]

As Grant mentioned in the press conference, we have had some problems getting the results we want out of the 4.6K sensor in the URSA Turret and so we don't have a timeline for it at this stage. We will continue work on it but we cannot promise when it will be ready as that relies entirely on getting the results to the stage that we are happy with and that we think is shippable.

I know it has been a long wait for URSA owners wanting the turret, but we do not want to ship it in a state that is inferior to what we are getting out of the 4.6K Mini. Hopefully the incredible upgrade deal we are offering on the URSA Mini Pro helps show that we have not forgotten these loyal customers and we appreciate their loyalty. You get an amazing price on the Pro and you get to keep your URSA.

As Grant mentioned in the press conference, we have had some problems getting the results we want out of the 4.6K sensor in the URSA Turret...

I recall when the URSA first came out and mentioned a "future upgradable" turret, I was skeptical about depending on that feature.

I've encountered many instances where a product offered some kind of port or interchangeable part that never came to fruition. Not because of any kind of ill-intent on the part of the manufacturer, but because what had been anticipated back when the port/interface was created didn't accommodate some kind of requirement the new feature eventually needed.

I suspect that's the case here. Perhaps it's an interface limitation, a mechanical limitation, processor limitation, whatever. Only BMD knows. But it's always risky to rely on promised "future" upgrades, when those upgrades aren't available when the original product was created.

Hopefully the incredible upgrade deal we are offering on the URSA Mini Pro helps show that we have not forgotten these loyal customers and we appreciate their loyalty. You get an amazing price on the Pro and you get to keep your URSA.

And this is where I would agree with Tim. It's a fantastic opportunity, even if one considers it a "mea culpa" of sorts. If I were an URSA owner, I'd completely forget about the 4.6K turret at this point and take BMD up on their generous offer.

If I were an URSA owner, I'd completely forget about the 4.6K turret at this point and take BMD up on their generous offer.

Not everyone has the funds to spring for another camera.
I like the form factor of the larger camera better and have smaller cameras for other work.
In fact I now own 7 cameras of differing sizes and features. Do I need another one? not at all!!

Sorry but did anyone here actually watch the press conference?? Clearly NOT
Grant stated clearly there are 2 options...

Option 1. Upgrade to the EF/PL Ursa 4.6k turret. (as promised) but no discounted Ursa Mini Pro

or

Option 2. upgrade to an Ursa Mini Pro for a discounted price (with original receipt) and KEEP YOUR OLD URSA

I don't remember option 1 being mentioned. If the promotion does not cater to all URSA cameras, I don't want the URSA Mini Pro option. I want the EF URSA 4.6K Turret.

Option 3 is return for a refund. Depending on where you live and the applicable consumer law. I'm in a similar situation to you - I bought camera in July 2015 (so after the sensor upgrade was announced) and since the camera is not fit for purpose as "the world's first user-upgradeable 4K digital film camera", I am entitled to a full refund or replacement according to direct advice from the consumer authority. This apparently holds true for any situation except private sales - used or new.

I am currently not interested in that - but in a few months I may. The URSA mini pro is outside of my price range otherwise (and I don't really want it).

I prefer the big ursa with all the screens especially the 10 inch. what happens when the mini pro is outdated? you buy another camera again?

I like the idea of upgrading the turret instead of switching to a whole different camera. I have been buying cameras and equipment for 34 years now. Tired of it.
Let's get the turret working and on the market as promised BMD.

+1
brilliant camera and deserves to be upgraded with the turret which I think is what most people went for, when purchasing.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

As Grant mentioned in the press conference, we have had some problems getting the results we want out of the 4.6K sensor in the URSA Turret and so we we don't have a timeline for it at this stage. We will continue work on it but we cannot promise when it will be ready as that relies entirely on getting the results to the stage that we are happy with and that we think is shippable.

As long as what you are saying is true and being a representative of BMD, then it is encouraging. I have enough cameras and I like the multi-screen / station configuration of the URSA. It is the most professional camera of the line. I don't mind waiting as long as there is confirmation as above that it will ship someday.

I know it has been a long wait for URSA owners wanting the turret, but we do not want to ship it in a state that is inferior to what we are getting out of the 4.6K Mini.

Finally a true admission from BMD that the 4.6K Mini is of inferior quality. This is why I rather wait for the turret than put my money on the UM46K or UMP that and quote "is Inferior to what we are getting out of the 4.6K Mini". No URSA mini for this guy. If I want that small form factor, I'm going for something else.

Hopefully the incredible upgrade deal we are offering on the URSA Mini Pro helps show that we have not forgotten these loyal customers and we appreciate their loyalty. You get an amazing price on the Pro and you get to keep your URSA.

It's not about loyalty that you have this program. It is about preventing liability for misrepresentation of the URSA as an upgradable camera. There are consumer protection laws that say if the product has been misrepresented that you can return it for a full refund. That's what your legal folks are thinking. Also, it's. Other such an amazing price for a camera I don’t need.

In closing, get the turret done and ship that sucker. The turret is what BMD should discount for the loyalty and patience that URSA owners waited for.

I know it has been a long wait for URSA owners wanting the turret, but we do not want to ship it in a state that is inferior to what we are getting out of the 4.6K Mini.

Finally a true admission from BMD that the 4.6K Mini is of inferior quality. This is why I rather wait for the turret than put my money on the UM46K or UMP that and quote "is Inferior to what we are getting out of the 4.6K Mini". No URSA mini for this guy.

I think you read that wrong... He's saying the URSA with turret upgrade isn't yet performing as well as the URSA Mini.

i actually think that that TURRET is going to be more expensive at the end,... maybe 2990 or 3450 but everybody who can show an invoice and proof that the camera was purchased before a certain date, will get it for 1990 : )

Still excited for this to happen!!!!

i actually think that that TURRET is going to be more expensive at the end,... maybe 2990 or 3450 but everybody who can show an invoice and proof that the camera was purchased before a certain date, will get it for 1990 : )

Still excited for this to happen!!!!

Don't give them bad ideas. the situation is bad enough as it is. The problem with that is that they already stated a price long ago.

As Grant stated about having to "HIDE" things, BMD is sure notorious for doing so.
It may be better for BMD to be up front and mention what the problems are. I have designed video electronics, i can take it.

It looks like they may need to get help on this one.

I know it has been a long wait for URSA owners wanting the turret, but we do not want to ship it in a state that is inferior to what we are getting out of the 4.6K Mini.

Finally a true admission from BMD that the 4.6K Mini is of inferior quality. This is why I rather wait for the turret than put my money on the UM46K or UMP that and quote "is Inferior to what we are getting out of the 4.6K Mini". No URSA mini for this guy.

I think you read that wrong... He's saying the URSA with turret upgrade isn't yet performing as well as the URSA Mini.

I read it right. Who are they fooling. It is the same 4.6K sensor. The tuning will be in the firmware programming and power supply to it. So if that sensor is inferior to that of the UM46K then the same sensor will be inferior in the UM46K. If is sounds like a duck, walks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck.

Put their resources to that sucker and get it done instead of making excuses. If they know they won't be producing it, then Grant should have a pair and say it as it is. He does not do it because he must have been counseled of the legal consequences. So BMD just keeps up the appearance that it is still being worked on. What a bunch of sly.

I have been a loyal customer of BMD since my first pocket and have promoted their cameras within my community of cinematographers who are Red, Canon, and Sony users... taking the beating and justifying how BMD cameras are as good and their URSA upgradability. No more. I have lose faith in them. Sorry folks for the rant. I am done and out of this thread.

Well, I don't think it's that easy to foresee the future in terms of data buses and processing power when making an upgradable camera. The holdup might be a number of things not directly related to the capabilities of the sensor.

I'd guess that one reason that BMD is having more trouble with the 4.6K sensor in the Ursa turret than in the Ursa Mini is the 120 frames per second in 4K part of the equation.

The Mini Pro is a nice machine but I have little interest in it for any workflow where I'm currently using the big URSA. Rather than being left in the dark for an unspecified amount of time I'd prefer if they outright abandoned the URSA 4.6k and instead released an "URSA Pro" (designed around a 4.6k or better sensor) and gave us a discount on that - even if this new URSA Pro was flatly not upgradeable. IMO y'all at BMD should stop wasting time and good will on a fruitless pursuit and just make the hard call. Limbo sucks.

I have 120 fps on another 4k camera and I tell you, the URSA's 80 fps looks really good.

Big URSA will do 150 fps 1080 windowed if your into that.

I don't really to have a lot of need for more that 80 fps.

120 fps 4K footage is a great sweet spot for slow motion capture. Given enough light, it can look great!

80 is the sweet spot for me.

Finally a true admission from BMD that the 4.6K Mini is of inferior quality.

Ellory -- Roger M. is correct in that you didn't understand Tim's statement. Tim is saying that, at this point, the 4.6K turret would be inferior to the 4.6K URSA Mini, and they don't want to ship it until it's at least as good as the 4.6K URSA Mini.

There is a very good chance the full-size URSA lacks something the 4.6K sensor requires; something they were able to accommodate in the newer design of the URSA Mini that is turning out to be difficult to retro-fit into the older URSA. I've worked in electronics manufacturing and this is totally plausible.

Finally a true admission from BMD that the 4.6K Mini is of inferior quality.

Ellory -- Roger M. is correct in that you didn't understand Tim's statement. Tim is saying that, at this point, the 4.6K turret would be inferior to the 4.6K URSA Mini, and they don't want to ship it until it's at least as good as the 4.6K URSA Mini.

There is a very good chance the full-size URSA lacks something the 4.6K sensor requires; something they were able to accommodate in the newer design of the URSA Mini that is turning out to be difficult to retro-fit into the older URSA. I've worked in electronics manufacturing and this is totally plausible.

Earl, you need to read my follow on post. Roger may be pointing Tim as right and I am telling everyone that Tim statement is a spin from a marketing angle. I know what he said. My point, what he meant is really what I said and understood. If anyone believed it as Tim spinning it, I feel sorry for them being treated like a fool.

Yes, the Big Ursa's video processing board interaction with the 4.6K sensor, as subsequent required firmware could be thrmhold up, not the sensor itself. He is saying the results are not As good on the big Ursa and they are with the UM 4.6 results.