4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 12:00 am

I got my big ursa about two weeks ago and I must say it feels like I just bought a boat anchor.
And I'm not referring to it's weight.

man, I don't know.
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James Parker

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 12:07 am

I just wish at this point they would release the 3.2 for big ursa just as they have for the mini


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John Simatos

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 12:57 am

James Parker wrote:I just wish at this point they would release the 3.2 for big ursa just as they have for the mini


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Same. Something to at least appease a few people
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 1:09 am

John Simatos wrote:
James Parker wrote:I just wish at this point they would release the 3.2 for big ursa just as they have for the mini


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Same. Something to at least appease a few people


At least an ETA would be nice because if the new OS for Ursa Mini is dropping mid year - June/July - when is the big Ursa getting the OS and the turret? Should we expect mid-year also for the turret/new OS? Or worse yet, after that?

I'm assuming they're trying to get the Global Shutter working, and although I'd probably hardly ever use it, I know a lot of people do want that, but an estimate or something would be nice.

Also, I wonder if there's any way to fix the lifted blacks of the 10" screen on the Ursa. Can that be recalibrated through a firmware update or is that just how it is going to be?

Here's the issue: the 10" screen has lifted blacks, so I don't trust the black level/contrast, but the color is good. The 5" screens, they're good enough for contrast but the color has a blue/magenta bias. So basically if I wanted to use all onboard monitors, I'd have to look at the 5" ones for contrast and the 10" for color. Not so great... and I don't want to have to use LUTs (in the upcoming firmware) for regulating each screen and bringing them closer.

As it is, I use my SmallHD 502 for color and contrast, and the 10" for framing/focus if Big Ursa is on a tripod.
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 1:13 am

I actually like the current menu system that's for the big ursa. Very simple and easy to get to.
Just give me the 4.6 with more DR.
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John Simatos

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 3:50 am

Lee Jackson wrote:I actually like the current menu system that's for the big ursa. Very simple and easy to get to.
Just give me the 4.6 with more DR.


The menu layout is fine but did you see the added options on the new mini? Ridiculously jealous!
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 5:22 am

The optimist in me thinks they haven't announced the new firmware for the big ursa because they would have to do it again for the new sensor.

But then the pessimist in me is starting to question why the new firmware isn't announced for the big ursa... And no mention of any timeframe at all.

And with no mention of any date for the turrets, and new 'mini only' products being pushed through I am actually starting to doubt the turrets will be ready anytime 'soon'.

If anyone's working on them at all at this point...

Either way I'm giving it a month then I'm going to reconsider selling my ursa. And evf. And cfast cards. And Peli case- obviously a massive hassle I don't want to do, but I actually got my first request for 4K the other day, and I'm going to have to rent a camera to actually do it.
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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 5:26 am

Rick and I both agree, the 4.6K turret is being delayed as they try to get the global shutter working on it, so yiu guys can be the first with dual shutter capability.
Cheers
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thomas bruegger

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 5:48 am

feel kind of bad too, what's the move? a word from BM would be necessary at this point.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 12:48 pm

thomas bruegger wrote:feel kind of bad too, what's the move? a word from BM would be necessary at this point.


Well... They did say when they released the Ursa Mini 4.6k that they are working on it. So that was our official word. I guess many of us were just hoping they would have had something to say on it at NAB. It's a little bit of a downer to have to wait with no ETA mentioned but if they're trying to get the GS to work, then I can imagine that would make it hard to know an ETA.

And of course the Ursa will get the new operating system. It wouldn't make sense if it didn't. But that requires additional programming I'm sure b/c different hardware and being that the mini is the most popular camera, it's going to get priority.

Still though, I really hope we don't have to wait until mid-year or later to get our 4.6k turrets. Until then, my BMCC, Pocket, and Ursa 4K will hold me over just fine. It's all about the lighting anyway. 8-)
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 4:56 pm

I agree Paul- from a business point of view the mini will get the vast share of the r&d and probably needs too- it makes financial sense- I just wish someone from blackmagic would give some kind of indication that our faith will be rewarded with a clear timeline or at least an aknowledgement that this will be worth the wait- although I really couldn't care much for global shutter

The official page still shows shipping in March for the 4.6k ursa- add to that the complete lack of any mentions in any statement or announcements from Grant and I am starting to get a bit concerned and annoyed... I bought the worlds first user upgradable digital film camera and just want to upgrade it!
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cobydax

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 6:18 pm

First day at NAB I walked right in and up to the black magic design area and asked the first representative "is there any update on the 4.6 K turret upgrade?"

his response?

"I'm not sure what youre asking about"

So I guess it seems not only do they not communicate with their customers, they don't communicate with their staff either

Best of luck everyone :)
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Daniel DarkSide

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 6:37 pm

cobydax wrote:First day at NAB I walked right in and up to the black magic design area and asked the first representative "is there any update on the 4.6 K turret upgrade?"

his response?

"I'm not sure what youre asking about"

So I guess it seems not only do they not communicate with their customers, they don't communicate with their staff either

Best of luck everyone :)



did you just walk away after he stated that?
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Guy Fiorita

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 7:15 pm

This thread reads like we're a bunch of people in an abusive relationship trying desperately to make excuses that will convince us to stay.

"Its gonna get better, I just know it!! I mean it has to right? I've seen glimmers of hope and I choose to ignore the past and focus on what's possible."
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thomas bruegger

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 19, 2016 9:10 pm

My friend is at NAB now, he went on my behalf to ask about the turret, they said to him "we are working on it, it will be coming"..... (;-)
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Mark Shogren

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 4:21 am

the tone of the NAB video really makes me think that the Ursa mini is the focus and those of us who went with the Ursa major will be left hanging, if not now then later. The big ursa wasn't even present on stage, not a good sign.
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thomas bruegger

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 4:54 am

Canelled my preorder that i placed last autumn. It suddenly felt so stoopid to wait for something that i dont even really know what it is, since they might change specs...... i will go the mini road and see what the future brings to the turret upgrade.
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VicHarris

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 8:03 am

This is really how you lose buyers.
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 8:19 am

It seems like the ursa was tested on us and then they decided not to focus on it anymore.
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VicHarris

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 8:26 am

Agreed. It's really bottomed out for resale.
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 8:30 am

They don't discontinue products. They just stop talking about it and stop updating it.
Which is actually the same thing.
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Andreas Caemmerer

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 11:02 am

One reason for buying the URSA was the advertised upgradability. We preordered the 4.6K Turret right after it's announcement.

I really can't imagine that BMD will leave us URSA owners in the dust. Wouldn't be the smartest move...
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thomas bruegger

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Apr 20, 2016 1:22 pm

Andreas Caemmerer wrote:I really can't imagine that BMD will leave us URSA owners in the dust. Wouldn't be the smartest move...


i dont think they will. the question is what exactly do we get. Is it what they said it would be a year ago and when is that going to be? "we are working on it" is not exactly big news, thats what they did for the last year.....
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 4:58 am

If this is true, It's gonna be a LOOOONG wait...

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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 5:17 am

That would explain the silence then...

Wow. Utterly speechless
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John Simatos

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4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 7:45 am

I'm out boys! Ursa on sale now!

I don't care for global shutter or whatever the hell they're doing!


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Michiel Bollen

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 8:53 am

December 2016? That's a bummer.

I bought the URSA for it's a interchangeable/upgradable sensor, people who bought this camera where early adopters and put their trust in BM.

The URSA mini is the most lucrative model and I understand that you invest most where you need it. But a flagship model should always be ahead of the other camera's in technical capabilities.

I don't mind the delays but an official statement would be nice, maybe an announcement with a certain timeframe and an overview of the upgrade. It's not the end of the world but I'm just very excited to be using the new sensor.
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 9:15 am

Good luck to you... I'm seriously considering it... But then I would probably end up right at the back of the queue for a mini... Or just get an fs7 pretty much straight away... It's a real tough one
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Andreas Caemmerer

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 10:28 am

Unbelievable...
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Daniel DarkSide

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 2:04 pm

SOOOOOOOO disapointed!


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Daniel DarkSide

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 2:10 pm

I bought my camera right after NAB last year and i used ay with paypal..... so for a year and now maybe 2 i will be out 7k with now word other then "soon" My idea of soon (a couple of months) and Blackmagic's version (YEARS) :evil: :?: :twisted:
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Joshua Dredge

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 2:16 pm

The reason this doesn't bother me in particular is that its not exactly as if the URSA is useless in the meantime. It's still an extremely functional camera - moreso than the mini IMO - that's still ahead of its time, and the images that are coming off it are amazing. I've been shooting with it more and more now that I've gotten to know the camera, and never had a problem. 4K is still an amazing resolution to work with.

I do want that extra dynamic range, resolution and a fix for black hole sun (though it didn't appear on my last outdoor shoot), but even if it wasn't upgradeable, it would be a fantastic camera for years to come.

Though I did purchase with upgrade-ability in mind, unless they announce they won't be releasing the turret, I'll still be a happy customer when it does ship.
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Daniel DarkSide

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 2:25 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The 4.6K URSA Turret is still in progress. While we can't provide a definitive timeframe, rest assured that we're working hard on this. It will happen.


What happened to the "definitive timeframe" Kristian :?:

I am SOOOOOOO MAD right now!!!! Mad at myself for wasting SOOOOOOOOO much money on a product and a Brand i REALLY BELIEVED IN, I mad that despite all this i still do :x!!!!!!! I just don't know what to do! I just want my camera! 7K ................. :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :cry:
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John Fishback

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 2:27 pm

I feel the same as you, Joshua. It'd be better customer service to let people know anything about delivery of the new turret - and most likely a new OS (which I assume would happen at the same time).
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Joshua Dredge

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 2:54 pm

Daniel DarkSide wrote:I bought my camera right after NAB last year and i used ay with paypal..... so for a year and now maybe 2 i will be out 7k with now word other then "soon" My idea of soon (a couple of months) and Blackmagic's version (YEARS) :evil: :?: :twisted:


If you physically don't have a camera, ask for your money back. No retailer should have taken full price preorders. Ask for your money back and order 4K version, and upgrade later, or get another camera that suits your needs.


And John, I am very hopeful for a new update for studio compatibility to bring it line with the mini, because I use my URSA as a studio camera, first and foremost.
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Daniel DarkSide

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 3:14 pm

Joshua Dredge wrote:
Daniel DarkSide wrote:I bought my camera right after NAB last year and i used ay with paypal..... so for a year and now maybe 2 i will be out 7k with now word other then "soon" My idea of soon (a couple of months) and Blackmagic's version (YEARS) :evil: :?: :twisted:


If you physically don't have a camera, ask for your money back. No retailer should have taken full price preorders. Ask for your money back and order 4K version, and upgrade later, or get another camera that suits your needs.



Doing that as i type B&H has a paypal payment option so the money has been gone since i bought it.
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Sean Hunter

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 6:51 pm

Hey guys, I'm really late to the party here. I have owned a v1 Ursa since they first started shipping because of everything that has been previously stated. It seemed like the best fit for my needs and would grow with me. Shot with good glass and with the correct lighting the images are truly fantastic and I have absolutely no complaints there (well, unless I want to nitpick). With that said, I'm adding my frustration to the mix over the seemingly non-existant communication about the future of the Ursa. I have been VERY patient as the rest of you but the announcements at NAB especially as it pertains to the Mini's updates has me really bummed.

Here is my position. Dynamic range and noise (especially fixed pattern) are my main priorities. Higher FPS would be nice but not necessary. I would very much like to have a wider selection of usable ISO's to get a little better low light performance. The software and menus are fairly easy to use but I feel like the audio options could be overhauled. I can't tell you how many times I've had to make a change, inadvertently changed the input type and had to stop the next take because the phantom power was automatically turned off again. LET ME ADD A HUGE +1 for scopes! Also maybe built-in color bars and calibration for the screens, even if just for the 10". Not a huge deal for locked shots using external monitors with those tools but still, for the more run-and-gun stuff, having the ability to quick reference levels a little more accurately than the included histogram would be welcomed.

I shot DSLR for years until I could save up enough to finally step up to next level. I did more research was probably healthy but wanted to invest my hard-earned dollars in a tool that would last a long time, have the most flexibility and allow me ample room to grow as a shooter. Well, I thought I had finally found that in the URSA and took the plunge and I'm still happy I did but as the months pass on with no software or hardware updates as promised, my heart sinks a little deeper thinking I spent a LOT of money (to me anyway) on a camera that has already been surpassed by the next thing leaving me stuck with Gen.1 capabilities and the inability to sell the camera for anywhere near what I paid for it even if to upgrade to the current supported camera that actually is being updated.

I know I'm reiterating what everyone else has been saying but I'm usually not very vocal on the forums - mostly a spectator. But I feel like I HAVE to throw my voice in after this years NAB announcements.

Blackmagic, I'm a loyal fan - I have several of your products now - the BMPCC, URSA, Viewfinder, UltraStudio Express, UltraStudio 4K Extreme and SSD Dock. I've invested a lot and am staying confident that you will do the right thing here. Maybe just an OFFICIAL announcement on the status of things - I don't even care about WHEN anymore, just wether IF it will happen or not. I completely understand the development process and will never make comments about "well it can't be that hard..." as a garage machinist and electronic engineering minor I get it.

Ok, I'm done. Thanks for listening, lol.

Sean
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 8:16 pm

Even though they said it's a user upgrade AKA no interaction from them, I do believe it's a hardware/software issue. Hopefully the body does not have to be upgraded too.
If the electronics in the body needs to be juiced up, I hope we don't have to pay extra for it.
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Guy Fiorita

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 9:13 pm

This end of the year stuff I take with a grain of salt. We have no idea who said this and nothing against mr peters but he also said the mini had a working global shutter at one point.

That being said, even if there was some sort of official announcement what does that even mean? At this point I think gossip holds more weight than any BM announcement re: future products.

BM isn't to blame. Everyone that bought an ursa, including myself, took a gamble. Who knows, everyone may be bending over backwards to get their hands on a gs/rs ursa in a few months. Probably not but we all can dream. The way BM handled the turret might be 'uncool' but it's certainly not out of character.

I'd like to add battery volt meter and real timecode menu to the request list.
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David Hessel

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 9:38 pm

Guy Fiorita wrote:BM isn't to blame.


Of course they are. Maybe you can claim people should have known better based of BM's past behaviour but that doesn't negate BM's responsibility in this.
David Hessel
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Jim Grayson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 21, 2016 11:59 pm

I bought my Ursa PL way back when.. I don't even think about it anymore. I probably will never use it, it's like being a six year old and realizing an old toy just dosent cut it anymore, EVEN THOUGH I COULD GO OUT AND RENT SOME PRIMES PRETTY CHEAP, AND PUT IT TO USE AS IS, IT'S GOT TO BE PRETTY AMAZING ,RIGHT!, nope not me! stupid , gullible me , I hear about this awesome upgrade , and I'm the first idiot in line. Pathetic. Guys, there is absolutely ZERO news out there on this, really nothing. I cant believe I am so late to the forums, I will be here everyday, maybe not posting , but waiting for news at least. REALLY? not a single story anywhere? unbelievable! Also, the crap you have to deal with out there for just liking the URSA can be pretty unbearable too! from the RED owners to the Arri people, this camera gets so put down by the snobs, unfairly too! Probably just because they packed a ton of camera into the thing for a fraction of what they spent, so they are invested, literally.
jim
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Apr 22, 2016 8:03 am

For the request list:
1 custom frame guides
2 a side handle with rec start stop, iris and focus like the mini has
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Apr 22, 2016 12:48 pm

I think you can use the mini side handle if you add a rosette to your rails. The big ursa has a lanc input.

Maybe its just me but I like the style/look and form factor of the big ursa much better than the mini. The weight doesn't bother me at all. All those screens are just what the doctor ordered. I love the fact that I don't have to drag around a large monitor.

It would be a shame if they don't do us right but my ursa is extremely useful just the way she is.

The big ursa came in as a home wrecker and now her little sister did some home wrecking on her.
Ouch!!!
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Apr 24, 2016 2:38 pm

Any experiences with the xeen 24?
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Daniel DarkSide

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 02, 2016 6:17 pm

So i switched my order to a URSA 4K and added the 4.6K Turret. I got the camera last week..... It's AWESOME now i am Really excited to get the 4.6k.. I think my happiness with the 4k will tide me over for awhile longer! :)
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 02, 2016 9:21 pm

Daniel DarkSide wrote:So i switched my order to a URSA 4K and added the 4.6K Turret. I got the camera last week..... It's AWESOME now i am Really excited to get the 4.6k.. I think my happiness with the 4k will tide me over for awhile longer! :)



This is an awesome camera. That will be greatly enhanced with the 4.6k upgrade.
I have a feeling it's going to be worth the wait.
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John Fishback

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon May 02, 2016 9:40 pm

I agree with Lee.
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John Simatos

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu May 05, 2016 9:47 am

It's may! Can we expect anything soon?


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Jose Mojica

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri May 06, 2016 12:01 pm

I've been watching old videos from NAB 2015 in which the 4.6K Turret was announced and it's amazing the number of times Blackmagic said the first batch of sensors would go to existing URSA owners because they are our "loyal" customers.

Clearly something changed. I want to know which one of you messed it up for the rest of us, because Blackmagic now doesn't even talk to us anymore. Now they're like, "You'll take your big URSA the way it is and love it, Reek."

That's sadly resulted in me going through the five stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I was in denial during NAB 2016, then anger after Daniel Peters said on Twitter maybe end of year. That's when I went into bargaining mode...with my wife to allow me to buy a different camera...to depression because I was going to miss my URSA, to acceptance, when I put a down payment on a different camera (yes, from a different vendor).

Did my URSA suddenly stop working or something? No, but let's face it...it's old. It's over a year old! Fine, I'm a junkie. I said it. A camera junkie. I need the latest and greatest I can get each year...for under $5000 dollars ($2000 after I sell my current camera on eBay). Look, I like technology. I like more resolution, more dynamic range. I thought the ability to switch turrets was going to satisfy my need for a fix, but we all know that hasn't worked out so well.

I know what you're thinking. You don't need the latest and greatest. People are shooting movies with their iPhones. Wait...are you telling me my iPhone actually shoots 4K, has a screen as big as the URSA's (I've got the 6S+), weighs less than a lb., and doesn't turn people magenta? Thanks, that makes me feel even worse about carrying my stupid big URSA.

But to be honest, if Blackmagic said, "Hey, sorry guys, we kind of said something somewhat untrue...but what can we say? We like money...and you don't understand, there really is a lot of money on smaller cameras...but we're sorry and we still think of you...once in a while...and we're kind of, sort of, still working on it..." Then I'd gladly cancel my down payment and be one of those "loyal" customers once again. But without an official announcement, I'm sorry to say, hey, maybe I'll be back some day.

PS. Blackmagic, you've got until end of June to make that announcement, that's when the other camera is supposed to come out.
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Joshua Dredge

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri May 06, 2016 12:09 pm

From the Product Manager, on the first page of this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45698#p264834

Is the best official word.
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