4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Sep 13, 2016 4:13 pm

The listing does say to "call for availability and delivery times" so they are probably taking advanced orders at the reduced price?
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Sep 13, 2016 4:29 pm

It would appear it's a false alarm, my (uk) reseller has no eta on the turrets or mini's

Back to waiting then. I think I'm now officially at the seventh stage of grief
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Jose Mojica

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Sep 13, 2016 4:36 pm

Gavin_c_clark wrote:It would appear it's a false alarm, my (uk) reseller has no eta on the turrets or mini's

Back to waiting then. I think I'm now officially at the seventh stage of grief


This is officially "The Year of Waiting"... Blackmagic customers are waiting for turrets and minis, RED customers are waiting for Ravens and Scarlet-Ws, Kinefinity customers are waiting for Terra's, even most iPhone customers are waiting until October for iPhone 7+s. So you can't even say you're going to shoot your movie with an iPhone. Filmmaking is cancelled this year. :)
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Sep 13, 2016 4:43 pm

The mini 4.6's have been shipping for six months now and there's still lots of people waiting.

I'm genuinely starting to think that nab 2017 will be here before my turret now.
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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Sep 13, 2016 6:36 pm

You nailed it, this year's NAB big release will be the Ursa 4.6 Turret (possibly with global shutter option as well) release! :roll:
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 2:59 pm

Lol.

Starting to think the ursa broadcast and ursa hdmi will pop the 4.6k to the post.

Genuinely don't know what to do- resale values on the boat anchor version are shocking
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Jose Mojica

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 3:12 pm

Gavin_c_clark wrote:Lol.

Starting to think the ursa broadcast and ursa hdmi will pop the 4.6k to the post.

Genuinely don't know what to do- resale values on the boat anchor version are shocking


Lol, I didn't know those were still listed on the site...Well, if you sell your anchor, what line are you thinking of standing in next?

It's funny but I used to choose cameras based on image quality, resolution, workflow, etc...now the #1 criteria is, "In Stock, Ships Today"
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 3:42 pm

Jose Mojica wrote:
Gavin_c_clark wrote:
It's funny but I used to choose cameras based on image quality, resolution, workflow, etc...now the #1 criteria is, "In Stock, Ships Today"


That should be number 1. Then, image quality, resolution, workflow, etc.

:-)
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 3:43 pm

There's the million dollar question because there simply isn't anything else that'll give the same bang for your buck.

Was going to get a mini as well but I think I'll see what the c300 m2 is like now it's a bit cheaper
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 5:00 pm

Jose- you sold your ursa- what did you go for?

And Paul, I see you have a mini these days, congrats, have you still got the big boy?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 5:16 pm

Gavin_c_clark wrote:Jose- you sold your ursa- what did you go for?

And Paul, I see you have a mini these days, congrats, have you still got the big boy?


I am the proud owner of a yet-to-be-made RED Scarlet-W. The word is that October will be a good month, so hopefully I will get it by the end of the year. I will say this, as painful as it is waiting, the president of RED is often in the red forum answering questions, which is very nice.

But...if I had to do it over again, I'd choose between available cameras: KineMax, Varicam LT, C300 MK II, or Refurbished RED Epic Dragon off eBay, and it would be between refursbished RED or Varicam LT. The thing is, I love FCPX, and once you play with the RED RAW workflow on FCPX, and the way you can work with the RAW directly there, it's really hard to choose something other than RED. (The Varicam LT footage looks so good, though, and ISO 5000 is tempting.)
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 5:25 pm

I wish you good luck sir!

I really want the 4.6k sensor, but it's starting to look grim- over 18 months after announcement and a beta model hasn't been sighted let alone a production model. And the big wigs at BMD choose not to mention it every chance they get
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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 6:00 pm

Gavin, that is an old BM sheet in the Ursa, the "Boradcast" and "HDMI" models never came to pass, and are not offered anymore. Only the EF/PL in 4K and the yet to be released 4.6K models.
Cheers
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Jose Mojica

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 6:01 pm

Gavin_c_clark wrote:I wish you good luck sir!

I really want the 4.6k sensor, but it's starting to look grim- over 18 months after announcement and a beta model hasn't been sighted let alone a production model. And the big wigs at BMD choose not to mention it every chance they get


Thank you, good luck to you too! Hopefully we'll have good cameras by the end of the year. :)
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Sep 14, 2016 6:24 pm

I know Denny- I was being a little cheeky referring to announced models that never came to light!
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rick.lang

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4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Sep 15, 2016 1:23 am

Gavin_c_clark wrote:There's the million dollar question because there simply isn't anything else that'll give the same bang for your buck.

Was going to get a mini as well but I think I'll see what the c300 m2 is like now it's a bit cheaper


Here's a C300 II that should be available on several internet marketplaces. Watch for it as I hear it's going for a steal:

https://twitter.com/cinebill/status/776138304454533120



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Denny Smith

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Sep 15, 2016 2:19 am

Gavin_c_clark wrote:I know Denny- I was being a little cheeky referring to announced models that never came to light!


Perhaps just a tad. :roll:
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Sep 15, 2016 7:28 am

Gavin_c_clark wrote:Jose- you sold your ursa- what did you go for?

And Paul, I see you have a mini these days, congrats, have you still got the big boy?


Yeah, but it's sitting collecting dust. I'd really like to use it more and I will.... once they release the 4.6k turret. The mini is great though. I sold my BMCC. =( I still use the Pocket a bunch though.

Consider this:

I have the v1 sensor so I was shooting 80fps full 4k. If I shoot 60 in full 4.6k on the mini, that's not much slower. If I use optical flow and slow the footage down to 80%, it's close and 75% gives me 80fps.

OR

With the Ursa v1 sensor, I can do 120 cropped and up to 150 cropped. The mini isn't far behind that at 120 cropped. Slow it down a little in post and you're close. It's close enough to not have to worry.

So why lug around that big camera?

The 4.6k sensor in Big Ursa will supposedly do 120 fps full 4.6k and 240 cropped. That's a big difference so it's useful for that.

I'd use my Ursa Mini for more general use but when on a controlled set, tripod, or handheld but not running around, I'd use the Big Ursa.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Oct 24, 2016 12:33 pm

So....where is it??

That upgrade is essential for us URSA owners, right?

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Oct 24, 2016 1:24 pm

jerrygladh wrote:That upgrade is essential for us URSA owners, right?


No, my URSA works fine without it.

It should be out next year.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Oct 24, 2016 2:47 pm

Gavin_c_clark wrote:I know Denny- I was being a little cheeky referring to announced models that never came to light!


Gavin_c_clark wrote:I really want the 4.6k sensor, but it's starting to look grim- over 18 months after announcement and a beta model hasn't been sighted let alone a production model. And the big wigs at BMD choose not to mention it every chance they get



I heard some people started to call the day in April when BMD announces new cameras at NAB "the new April Fool's Day"...
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Oct 30, 2016 9:00 pm

Jose Mojica wrote:
Gavin_c_clark wrote:I will say this, as painful as it is waiting, the president of RED is often in the red forum answering questions, which is very nice.


And this is the big difference to BMD's "no information" policy...
the customers feel lost, unheard, fooled, and that's why they get so pissed!

So when is there the any Turret upgrade for URSA customers?
Where's the URSA mini?
Is the magenta cast issue finally solved? What was the reason?
what's the new crosshatching problem, where does it come from, is it already solved, do they work on a solution? do they anyway care about it??
What do they do against the massive lens incompatibility?

problems, problems, problems, questions, questions, questions... NO ANSWER from BMD! Nothing!!!
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Nov 04, 2016 7:40 pm

B and h now have the v1 at $2995... if they ever do release the turret that's a bargain.

An absolute bargain.

If anyone has any faith in this product left there's an amazing deal to be had.

But that's a hell of a coin toss
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Andrew Walldez

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Nov 05, 2016 6:40 am

The lack of transparency with this company is what keeps me at bay from buying into them again, so far they have said exactly NOTHING about the turret in the past six or so months. How much longer do we have to wait for them to even talk about it again? NAB... NEXT YEAR?

I currently have an URSA V1 and trying to decide whether to sell it or to wait in purgatory forever until someone.... ANYONE... decides to make a facebook post, perhaps a tweet, an email, ill take a post it note at this point saying anything about the turrets. Just one word... please. I'll take a nod. Grant, just give us a nod. A blink. Blink once for yes, twice if you're held hostage.

The point is if you want to lose customers (like me) then say nothing exactly like what you're doing now. The key to any relationship is communication, and I bought into this relationship under the promise of an awesome sensor upgrade in a timely manner. I'm feeling very neglected like the hopeful wife that tries to keep the marriage together by going to counseling but my partner (blackmagic) is unwilling to communicate. How can I continue this relationship if my partner willfully ignores me.

Since they haven't said anything we can probably assume that they've given up on us. They probably consider this product finished. How would we know, they haven't said anything. If you've ever watched arrested development, there's this scene where the family comes into some money:

Michael Bluth: You don't want to use any of that money to finish sudden valley?
George Bluth: You don't consider that finished?
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Jose Mojica

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Nov 05, 2016 5:00 pm

This year I learned a valuable lesson. Unless B&H (or vendor of your choice) says "In Stock. Order Now to Ship TODAY..." the product doesn't exist. Seriously, I've been a lot happier since I decided to make my decisions based on gear that is readily available. I am done pre-ordering. I went from the URSA Turret, to Kinefinity Terra, to RED Scarlet-W and I wasted so much time thinking about things that didn't exist. Finally, I said, forget it, and bought a KineMax 6K. I love it! It has one really awesome feature: it's real. Because, to be honest, there are a lot of good cameras out there that are already shipping. And I know it's hard to think, "yeah, but if I just wait a little longer I can have this more awesome camera for the same amount of money..." You can waste so much time doing that.

So...do you sell your URSA or do you wait for the turret? The answer is: is the URSA as-is the camera you want to shoot your next project with? If it is, keep it. It really is an awesome camera as-is. And if you sell it, don't do what I did, and get in another waiting list, just pretend you didn't hear any announcements and choose from what is available now. ;)
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Nov 07, 2016 2:06 pm

That's disheartening. I'm not holding my breath, but I pre-ordered an Ursa 4.6K from a retailer here in Canada and was told that it's expected to arrive around November 20th. Hopefully that timeline is true for those looking to upgrade the turret as well. If I don't get mine by sometime in early December, I may buy something else instead too.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Nov 08, 2016 8:50 pm

I'm also getting worried because manufactures are discontinuing accessories for the URSA left and right. Wooden Camera still has some but many other Chinese companies have stopped. That's not good.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Nov 08, 2016 10:45 pm

I really can't see BMD giving up on the 4.6k turret revenue stream. Keep postive:-)

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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 10:07 am

I'm finding it hard to stay positive on this. Given how ursa customers have been treated, the continued silence around the turrets is getting increasingly hard to bear- the last anyone has seen of this product was presumably a prototype John Brawley had 14 months ago. Since then nothing other than 'it's coming' 5 or 6 months ago.

The bigger annoyance (I have a mini 4.6 as well now) is that with the ursa system you have a camera department in a box- one of the main reasons I bought into it- it could be such an amazing camera, and to have it sit idle while it's younger sibling gets all of the use is increasingly frustrating

Also, given the frankly shocking way ursa customers have been treated, there's very little in the way of voices being heard on the forums, which makes me think the financial gain from pressing forward might not be worth the while for them.

Either way, to hear that blackmagic actually care would be nice
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rick.lang

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4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 2:34 pm

Gavin, hopefully that URSA 4K isn't really sitting idle! Lots of capability there to produce beautiful images in the meantime. Understand completely the frustration though and we are getting close to the end of the year when one rumour indicated you may see turret upgrades. Predicting WHEN things will happen is very difficult. Even assuring one IF things will happen can be fraught with failure to deliver, such as the user selectable global/rolling shutter on the Mini 4.6K. I bet both will happen, but no idea when.


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Andrew Walldez

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 5:41 pm

How can we make our voices heard? Can we just assume they read these posts? Is there someone we can email to get a response? Someone tell me.
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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 5:49 pm

Unfortunately Rick it is! To heft the big ursa around requires getting a bit of an incentive- maybe it's my age but a day of handheld with it and I'm out for a week!

When I can get a better image from the mini or even my c100mii in certain circumstances (I only shoot hd and generally hq) there's not much of an incentive to go through with it.

That said, when it's locked off, that 10 inch monitor is amazing for reviewing takes and the additional side monitors are very handy for all sorts of reasons
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rick.lang

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4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 6:17 pm

I was wishing I had the full URSA last weekend when shooting action with the 85mm APO prime. Hard for a sole operator to follow the action on screen and make unpredictable adjustments to focus quickly. The Mini 4.6K with BMVF just isn't easy to use without a BM Video Assist 4K mounted on it when you need a focus puller. I had already thought of buying another monitor for that reason, but if I had a $2,995 URSA Mini 4K, I would be fine!

Get that thing off your shoulder if you're anywhere near 50 years old! You might hurt somebody with it when your back or knees suddenly fail. A beauty to operate on sticks, and not an issue if perfectly balanced on your shoulder (honestly who can perfectly balance it for all their lenses?), but practically speaking physically impractical when shooting clips more than a minute at a time unless you're under 50.

By the way, I tested all flavours of ProRes and if you are going to compare images with your other cameras, please do as I do now and start shooting ProRes 444 XQ in 2K 16:9 ISO 400. Between each flavour of ProRes there are subtle differences that can be hard to notice, but they are there.

Just embrace your camera, let it shine in its best light, and shoot raw or ProRes 444 XQ 2K. You keep your storage requirements reasonable and get the best colour and have wiggle room in post.


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Tony Rivera

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 10:12 pm

I know this is an older quote, but this still holds true. We are working on this.
Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The 4.6K URSA Turret is still in progress. While we can't provide a definitive timeframe, rest assured that we're working hard on this. It will happen.
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 11:45 pm

rick.lang wrote:Get that thing off your shoulder if you're anywhere near 50 years old! You might hurt somebody with it when your back or knees suddenly fail.




I'm well over 50 and handle mine on my shoulder fine. I am use to large cameras.
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rick.lang

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostWed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 pm

Okay, I'm guilty of a little exaggeration in the spirit of showing some empathy for Gavin. Good for you, Lee. Being used to it is probably key.


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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Nov 10, 2016 9:03 am

Tony Rivera wrote:I know this is an older quote, but this still holds true. We are working on this.
Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The 4.6K URSA Turret is still in progress. While we can't provide a definitive timeframe, rest assured that we're working hard on this. It will happen.

Nice one Tony!

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Andrew Walldez

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Nov 10, 2016 6:14 pm

Tony Rivera wrote:I know this is an older quote, but this still holds true. We are working on this.
Kristian Lam wrote:Hi,

The 4.6K URSA Turret is still in progress. While we can't provide a definitive timeframe, rest assured that we're working hard on this. It will happen.




Please, this gives me as much assurance as the second coming of christ. Anyday now huh.. Why don't you give us more details. Such as: the problems you're having, your thoughts on the matter, the availability of the sensors, anything we can help with?
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Nov 10, 2016 6:30 pm

Lee Jackson wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Get that thing off your shoulder if you're anywhere near 50 years old! You might hurt somebody with it when your back or knees suddenly fail.




I'm well over 50 and handle mine on my shoulder fine. I am use to large cameras.


It's more about posture than about athleticism. :)
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Brian Gulliver

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 5:26 pm

It does definitely feel light when I pick it up in the morning and heavier when I set it down in the evening (a little grunting) ;-)

I switched to carbon fiber rods and URSA is heavy but manageable. I am used to full camera format and wouldn't want it any other way.

Be patient the URSA turrets are coming. For all we know BM could be working on an improved or revised version of the sensor than URSA Mini currently has. They are working on the Mini because it does not have the turret and it makes the most sense to work on the Mini first.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 5:58 pm

Brian Gulliver wrote:Be patient the URSA turrets are coming. For all we know BM could be working on an improved or revised version of the sensor than URSA Mini currently has. They are working on the Mini because it does not have the turret and it makes the most sense to work on the Mini first.


Most likely, the decision to prioritize the Mini over the turrets was based on demand more than anything else.

Besides, the turrets probably have a much smaller profit margin than the UM 4.6Ks, so recouping the cost of developing the 4.6K sensor was probably a major factor also.
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Tony Rivera

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Nov 11, 2016 7:35 pm

Andrew Walldez wrote:Please, this gives me as much assurance as the second coming of christ. Anyday now huh.. Why don't you give us more details. Such as: the problems you're having, your thoughts on the matter, the availability of the sensors, anything we can help with?

I don't have additional information to provide at this time other than this is something that is still being worked on.
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Lee Jackson

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSat Nov 12, 2016 4:19 am

I may actually buy another one.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Nov 17, 2016 5:16 pm

I too bought the original URSA in a big part on the basis of the turret upgrades. I also own a 4.6K Mini too and sadly like many that is the go to workhorse currently. I completely understand the reasoning for the emphasis on the Mini but the lack of information reminds me of the worst type of clients who use that kind of tactic to cover up all sorts of **** ups and bad planning. Any real info on the matter would be greatly appreciated, even if it's a list of problems, the being left in the dark as an early adopter is super disrespectful. My feeling is it wouldn't take too much to keep loyal customers in the loop. FYI I love the original URSA image over the 4.6K Mini however new features and or firmware on the big URSA are long overdue given the original sales pitch from BMD.
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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Nov 17, 2016 8:18 pm

At this point, I'm wondering if it's "safer" to just wait until NAB '17 to see what BMD has coming out instead of buying a 4.6k turret upgrade. That's specifically for my own circumstances because I already own a 4.6k Ursa Mini. I'm probably going to wait now. It's too bad. I might end up selling my Ursa now if BMD comes out with a camera that's smaller and has the 4.6k Sensor. This way I can have the Ursa Mini 4.6k as my A cam and a smaller 4.6k camera as a BCam.

I dunno. Again, the waiting game. Who knows, maybe BMD will offer a new sensor for the Ursa Major at a discounted price.
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Norbert Bielan

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Nov 17, 2016 10:27 pm

I was thinking the same thing...if you release a new camera then also release the turret with the new sensor, and provide URSA owners first dibs like it should have been with the 4.6K...do right and make it up to your URSA supporters.
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rick.lang

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4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 6:37 pm

Norbert, we're going to start calling you the Prophet if this is what happens!


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Last edited by rick.lang on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rakesh Malik

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  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Nov 18, 2016 7:24 pm

Norbert Bielan wrote:I was thinking the same thing...if you release a new camera then also release the turret with the new sensor, and provide URSA owners first dibs like it should have been with the 4.6K...do right and make it up to your URSA supporters.


Indeed... BMD should take a hint from Red, though Red set the bar VERY high. :)
Rakesh Malik
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Andrew Walldez

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Dec 16, 2016 7:23 am

Well here we are in the middle of december, at the end of quarter 4, and still absolutely no word on the turret. They have not even given an ounce of information other than "we are working on it".

That could meana anything, there are a million things i'm technically working on: I'm working on being a billionaire, a way to travel faster than light, a guide on how to be friends with benefits, and a cure for male baldness. Usually saying "i'm working on it" actually means "I haven't actually done anything but i've thought about it a lot."

I want the turret I was promised.
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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Dec 16, 2016 7:48 am

Personally I'd want a working turret rather than having issues with it, resulting in sending it back or waiting for firmware updates. If that takes longer, so be it.

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