4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

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PaulDelVecchio

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 7:57 pm

Ben Mart wrote:Paul I wouldn't give up hope...

I still think BMD boffins can pull the turret off...let's not forget they gave the world a HD raw cinema camera that fits into your pocket!

For under a grand.

If not, so be it - the BMD boffins aren't that clever, but they still make nice cameras.

Personally I would wait until it comes from the horses mouth, although messages from vendors aren't reassuring.

BMD should have the decency to clarify the situation.

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The way I look at it is that it's growing pains of a company "new-ish" at making cameras at that time. They're getting better with announcing and shipping because they don't seem to be announcing before being ready to ship a product for the most part.

Not many people will agree with me, but that's how I view it. RED sure made mistakes and even still to this day... look at the Red Raven situation.

It does suck though because I wouldn't have bought the Ursa if I knew it wouldn't be upgradable. That was one of the perks for me. Or at least... it would be upgraded in a timely manner rather than WAY behind their other cameras. But we also get amazing color, DR, raw/prores, etc, for an amazing price so I can't be too upset. That's just my opinion. Others won't agree. That's fine.

It's just sad seeing the Ursa just sit there collecting dust while I shoot on the UM4.6k.
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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 8:54 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Ben Mart wrote:Paul I wouldn't give up hope...

I still think BMD boffins can pull the turret off...let's not forget they gave the world a HD raw cinema camera that fits into your pocket!

For under a grand.

If not, so be it - the BMD boffins aren't that clever, but they still make nice cameras.

Personally I would wait until it comes from the horses mouth, although messages from vendors aren't reassuring.

BMD should have the decency to clarify the situation.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


The way I look at it is that it's growing pains of a company "new-ish" at making cameras at that time. They're getting better with announcing and shipping because they don't seem to be announcing before being ready to ship a product for the most part.

Not many people will agree with me, but that's how I view it. RED sure made mistakes and even still to this day... look at the Red Raven situation.

It does suck though because I wouldn't have bought the Ursa if I knew it wouldn't be upgradable. That was one of the perks for me. Or at least... it would be upgraded in a timely manner rather than WAY behind their other cameras. But we also get amazing color, DR, raw/prores, etc, for an amazing price so I can't be too upset. That's just my opinion. Others won't agree. That's fine.

It's just sad seeing the Ursa just sit there collecting dust while I shoot on the UM4.6k.

I'm with you I bought the ursa on the belief of the upgrade...but still use the camera as funds don't allow for the um 4.6k... maybe next year.

From everything that's gone on...the public statements via this site and from the big boss (his ump4.6k stream) the message is that the turret is still on its way. Don't know if this happened with Red.

Wouldn't it make sense to say that if isn't feasible and get over it a year ago and not to continue the ********? Think the boffins have been working on it then these been a re-design via interchangeable turret (only going on this via the ump4.6k)

Personally I think the BMD marketing isn't that great....you would've thought they would've announced (streamed a day before) the trade show(BVE) so the marketing team can show it off (ump4.6k) at the event and bring in interest rather than the day after a trade show closes...as although the artic was cool, it felt nothing new.

Still hoping for a interchangeable lens mount option and this is hopefully going to be the TRY, that BMD delivers at NAB.

Either way I've got a great camera for a great price:-)




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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostThu Apr 13, 2017 9:24 pm

Everybody EVERYBODY EVERYBODY bought the URSA because of the upgradability. If the upgrade doesn't come they will lose Everybody EVERYBODY EVERYBODY who took BMD serious to "compete" with RED-ish-companies. And i dont think they can afford THAT. So im pretty sure the turret will come, no matter what it costs them. Coming up with a new product with a new price is just damage control.

I think another problem is probably that chinese company where they were producing the new sensor?
Ive lived in China for 5 years... and i know that things can get pretty... COMPLICATED :) over there.
Them stealing the recipe, lying about what they can do, delaying things... etc.

So cost probably piled up and who knows if they went with another company at the end?
Im just hoping for the best... or lets say... FOR THE ACCEPTABLE

I dont want to give up on BMD ... YET!
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Apr 14, 2017 5:01 pm

rick.lang wrote:Interesting point, Denny. The original $2,000 price was very attractive. We shall know likely in about two weeks. I wonder if Grant Petty will address it in his NAB 2017 email to everyone.


Or in his press conference. I expect that this will come up there and if not then I'll ask about it when I interview the BMD rep on Wednesday at NAB.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Apr 14, 2017 5:06 pm

On yesterday's read of NoFilmSchool, they are saying that there won't be much product announcements at NAB this year. BMD has released all their wares and RED is not coming to NAB. I guess it is time to throw the towel and hope.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostFri Apr 14, 2017 5:10 pm

There are a lot of products being launched at NAB this year. Red and BMD are well known, but as far as NAB-related products go, they account for a very miniscule fraction of them.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Apr 16, 2017 5:06 am

PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Ben Mart wrote:Paul I wouldn't give up hope...

I still think BMD boffins can pull the turret off...let's not forget they gave the world a HD raw cinema camera that fits into your pocket!

For under a grand.

If not, so be it - the BMD boffins aren't that clever, but they still make nice cameras.

Personally I would wait until it comes from the horses mouth, although messages from vendors aren't reassuring.

BMD should have the decency to clarify the situation.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk


The way I look at it is that it's growing pains of a company "new-ish" at making cameras at that time. They're getting better with announcing and shipping because they don't seem to be announcing before being ready to ship a product for the most part.

Not many people will agree with me, but that's how I view it. RED sure made mistakes and even still to this day... look at the Red Raven situation.

It does suck though because I wouldn't have bought the Ursa if I knew it wouldn't be upgradable. That was one of the perks for me. Or at least... it would be upgraded in a timely manner rather than WAY behind their other cameras. But we also get amazing color, DR, raw/prores, etc, for an amazing price so I can't be too upset. That's just my opinion. Others won't agree. That's fine.

It's just sad seeing the Ursa just sit there collecting dust while I shoot on the UM4.6k.


BMD should have the decency, but we shall see. I went through this with a much larger camera company (can't say which one because of the settlement agreement) and they bought back all my branded gear (in this case it would be BMD) because they advertised a feature that didn't exist. They fought back, but I was smart enough and they were inept enough to still have the misinformation on their product website. When I presented and informed this company of that, I sent them my gear and they sent me a check for its original value. And I will never buy anything of that brand again and it's hard because they are that big. It wasn't even the mistake they made that made me upset, but the way they treated me when I asked for my money back because of their misinformation.

My point is, I'm optimistic, but I'm no longer ignorant. I long ago made a record of all the information on the BMD website regarding the "upgradable" URSA. It is why I purchased the URSA even after the 4.6k mini was already out. It is why the majority of URSA owners bought the big URSA. Upgrade ability is a smart business decision for the buyer, if the company delivers.

Be smart and make a record just to cover your behind. BMD may have made enough money from the mini last year to take the loss and pay, us, the original URSA owners. If it turns out they (BMD) doesn't deliver the turret, just remember the big company I can't mention had to give me the original purchase price of the gear and not the depreciated value.

I, like everyone, was a big fan of BMD. Heck, I've EDITED, my last two projects with Resolve and helped with Resolve's editing growing pains. And I was happy to use it despite those growing pains. I want to support the new person with great ideas. BMD was excellent in communicating those ideas, but horrible in communicating the problems with these big ideas coming to fruition. If the lack of a 4.6k turret isn't addressed, communicated, by the end of the month we need to accept that it's not ever coming.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Apr 16, 2017 5:38 am

robertmanningjr wrote:
PaulDelVecchio wrote:
Ben Mart wrote:BMD should have the decency, but we shall see. I went through this with a much larger camera company (can't say which one because of the settlement agreement) and they bought back all my branded gear (in this case it would be BMD) because they advertised a feature that didn't exist. They fought back, but I was smart enough and they were inept enough to still have the misinformation on their product website. When I presented and informed this company of that, I sent them my gear and they sent me a check for its original value.


Indeed. Consumer law here deems that the product must be refunded or replaced if the product doesn't meet its advertised specs - regardless of time lapsed. I initiated proceedings with my retailer, and have agreed to wait until NAB to sort the issue. If they do not announce the turret shipping at NAB next week, then I shall ensure I get my refund.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Apr 16, 2017 6:06 am

So hopefully... next week will be Ursa's "Second Coming" ;-)

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 2:45 am

Why do you have faith in a company who has repeatedly shown you otherwise? I cannot say what they will do with the Ursa in the end but what I can say is that it is not a priority for them. They promised the 4.6k first to Ursa owners as a recognition of their loyal customers but they released the mini first. Why because that was their priority. They could have then released the Ursa turret next but they didn't why, because the magenta cast and cross hatch artifact of the mini was their priority. Next the new operating system for the mini was the priority. Next is was the Pro that was their priority. What do think their next priority will be?

They have hand more than enough time to get it ready, wasn't it about 2 years ago that JB mentioned a pre-production version of one? IF they ever do release a turret, you can be sure it will be the last upgrade the URSA ever sees. It is my belief that they are hoping enough will follow through on the pro upgrade so they can just kill it off once and for all. Are there not multiple vendors now cancelling pre-orders saying the URSA is dead? If this were not the case and vendors were mistaken I would have a bold type sticky on the forum detailing exactly what was going on rather than the the trademarked BM silence filling the forum.

Remember from GP's own mouth the URSA upgrade was meant to show BM's appreciation for their loyal customers, now you can see just what that means. When they broke promise and released the Mini first, they didn't even have the common courtesy to say a single word to the URSA owners in the announcement. I know they are a new camera company and they are trying to offer a camera unheard of a this price point... That is an excuse for being late, an excuse for under delivering, not an excuse for the blatant disrespect, and in my opinion, dishonesty they have shown to their customers.

Blackmagic why don't you just grow a pair and come out and say exactly what is going on rather than leaving your loyal customers hanging?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 5:37 am

David Hessel wrote:Why do you have faith in a company who has repeatedly shown you otherwise? I cannot say what they will do with the Ursa in the end but what I can say is that it is not a priority for them. They promised the 4.6k first to Ursa owners as a recognition of their loyal customers but they released the mini first. Why because that was their priority. They could have then released the Ursa turret next but they didn't why, because the magenta cast and cross hatch artifact of the mini was their priority. Next the new operating system for the mini was the priority. Next is was the Pro that was their priority. What do think their next priority will be?

They have hand more than enough time to get it ready, wasn't it about 2 years ago that JB mentioned a pre-production version of one? IF they ever do release a turret, you can be sure it will be the last upgrade the URSA ever sees. It is my belief that they are hoping enough will follow through on the pro upgrade so they can just kill it off once and for all. Are there not multiple vendors now cancelling pre-orders saying the URSA is dead? If this were not the case and vendors were mistaken I would have a bold type sticky on the forum detailing exactly what was going on rather than the the trademarked BM silence filling the forum.

Remember from GP's own mouth the URSA upgrade was meant to show BM's appreciation for their loyal customers, now you can see just what that means. When they broke promise and released the Mini first, they didn't even have the common courtesy to say a single word to the URSA owners in the announcement. I know they are a new camera company and they are trying to offer a camera unheard of a this price point... That is an excuse for being late, an excuse for under delivering, not an excuse for the blatant disrespect, and in my opinion, dishonesty they have shown to their customers.

Blackmagic why don't you just grow a pair and come out and say exactly what is going on rather than leaving your loyal customers hanging?


Very true. Plus there's the fact that Grant said that from what they're hearing from Ursa owners, there really isn't a want for the upgrade. I really don't see that. I don't know one Ursa owner that wouldn't upgrade. I'm sure they're out there but I've never come across one.

But like I said, growing pains. I'm sure they just want us to upgrade to the Mini Pro.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 1:46 pm

PaulDelVecchio wrote:
David Hessel wrote:Why do you have faith in a company who has repeatedly shown you otherwise? I cannot say what they will do with the Ursa in the end but what I can say is that it is not a priority for them. They promised the 4.6k first to Ursa owners as a recognition of their loyal customers but they released the mini first. Why because that was their priority. They could have then released the Ursa turret next but they didn't why, because the magenta cast and cross hatch artifact of the mini was their priority. Next the new operating system for the mini was the priority. Next is was the Pro that was their priority. What do think their next priority will be?

They have hand more than enough time to get it ready, wasn't it about 2 years ago that JB mentioned a pre-production version of one? IF they ever do release a turret, you can be sure it will be the last upgrade the URSA ever sees. It is my belief that they are hoping enough will follow through on the pro upgrade so they can just kill it off once and for all. Are there not multiple vendors now cancelling pre-orders saying the URSA is dead? If this were not the case and vendors were mistaken I would have a bold type sticky on the forum detailing exactly what was going on rather than the the trademarked BM silence filling the forum.

Remember from GP's own mouth the URSA upgrade was meant to show BM's appreciation for their loyal customers, now you can see just what that means. When they broke promise and released the Mini first, they didn't even have the common courtesy to say a single word to the URSA owners in the announcement. I know they are a new camera company and they are trying to offer a camera unheard of a this price point... That is an excuse for being late, an excuse for under delivering, not an excuse for the blatant disrespect, and in my opinion, dishonesty they have shown to their customers.

Blackmagic why don't you just grow a pair and come out and say exactly what is going on rather than leaving your loyal customers hanging?


Very true. Plus there's the fact that Grant said that from what they're hearing from Ursa owners, there really isn't a want for the upgrade. I really don't see that. I don't know one Ursa owner that wouldn't upgrade. I'm sure they're out there but I've never come across one.

But like I said, growing pains. I'm sure they just want us to upgrade to the Mini Pro.


27000 views on this thread doesn't sound like "there really isn't a want for the upgrade". I was shocked too when i heard what Grant said. If BMD has ANY interested keep their "high(er)"-budget customers they should really try to keep their promise. I have NO interested in the mini and the mini-pro. the ursa was the ONLY reason why i went with BMD. i never tried a BMD camera before... and even though i had to travel 1000 miles ONCE (+ 1000$ flights) to bring the URSA back to the U.S. to have it fixed under guarantee, i don't regret my buy... as LOOOONG as the turret happens.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 3:31 pm

Thanks to Blackmagic cameras I can make films I always wanted to make. I bought URSA to upgrade it later as it was promised. I put an order in B&H then cancelled it knowing that the turret will never come.

It saddens me that the company I've faithfully supported for the last four years with my hard earned cash can't communicate properly with their clients. It's okay to fail to deliver something, all of us will understand this and forgive but being unresponsive and not telling us what is happening is difficult to forgive.

It doesn't hurt me that I won't get a promised upgrade. I'm mature enough to let go off things. What hurts me the most is that I feel taken for granted by a company I learnt to love. This hurts.

Of course, I will move on, safe money and get URSA Mini Pro. At this price point it's the only camera I can afford. But the aftertaste will linger.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 3:37 pm

I'm not really upset, because I would be thrilled if I could get an URSA for the current sale price, however I would like having the options on the new operating system.

That's my biggest concern. Of course, because all of the content creators that are interested in these products gravitate towards the latest and greatest leave my questions unanswered. Why does Version 1 not get the new OS? Is it simply a hardware limitation? And, if the purchasers of the URSA camera have version 1 and upgrade to the new sensor, do they get stuck with the old OS and no new features?

I'm happy with the 4K sensor. It does everything I want. I just wish I could get the new OS.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 6:13 pm

I am hoping they will exceed our expectations and come out with a 6K or a 8K turret which would be more suited to the demographic who view Big URSA as an alternative to a RED Dragon or Red Weapon.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 6:21 pm

Brian Gulliver wrote:I am hoping they will exceed our expectations and come out with a 6K or a 8K turret which would be more suited to the demographic who view Big URSA as an alternative to a RED Dragon or Red Weapon.


The 4.6k sensor is sharper and less noisy than the Dragon so the Mini is already exceeding the Dragon easily.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 17, 2017 6:41 pm

VicHarris wrote:
Brian Gulliver wrote:I am hoping they will exceed our expectations and come out with a 6K or a 8K turret which would be more suited to the demographic who view Big URSA as an alternative to a RED Dragon or Red Weapon.


The 4.6k sensor is sharper and less noisy than the Dragon so the Mini is already exceeding the Dragon easily.


Yeah, now we just need the higher frame rates. But as it's looking, we either won't get it or we will but who knows when. Until then, 60p and Twixtor.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Apr 23, 2017 7:41 am

RIP URSA Turret. I was hoping for you a long time but no more.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Apr 23, 2017 10:43 am

Have I missed something?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostSun Apr 23, 2017 3:37 pm

'Till the fat lady sings, nothing is gospel.

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 5:26 pm

The URSA is not showed anymore at BMD website..... I think the turret is gone also.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 5:29 pm

Have I missed something because the big ursa seems to have disappeared from blackmagic website
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 5:39 pm

Also the bmcc and bmpc:-(

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 5:46 pm

Did they even mention it in the press conference? I can't watch it currently.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 6:04 pm

Gavin_c_clark wrote:Did they even mention it in the press conference? I can't watch it currently.


Not a single word...
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 6:15 pm

Presumably EOL.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 8:05 pm

Does look like the URSA 4K, the BMPC 4K, and the BMCC 2.5K are no longer being promoted for purchase as a new camera, and when resellers deplete their stock, they're gone. The BMPCC lives on though.


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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 8:06 pm

rick.lang wrote:Does look like the URSA 4K, the BMPC 4K, and the BMCC 2.5K are no longer being promoted for purchase as a new camera, and when resellers deplete their stock, they're gone. The BMPCC lives on though.


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Probably still a good seller.

Well... I guess it's time to sell my Big Ursa. Really wish I would have known this earlier.... oh well.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 8:16 pm

What the hell kind of company is this??? Tony Rivera!!! What happened??? Does that mean we should start suing BMD? What's next? Lock this thread and just don't talk about the turret anymore?
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 8:36 pm

MartinVidic wrote:What the hell kind of company is this??? Tony Rivera!!! What happened??? Does that mean we should we suing BMD ?


Just read the NAB update from Blackmagic. Nothing about the turret. They removed the URSA from their website, I hope you all saved their previous websites, manual and info, and they ignored everyone. The URSA IS DEAD AND THEY LEFT US HANGING WITHOUT EVEN AN APOLOGY. My URSA's resale value just went to $500, maybe.

Well, I've had this happen before. My speculation is that their counsel advised all Blackmagic employees not to even mention a word as they prepare for litigation and settlement. I will set up a Dropbox with all of the URSA upgrade literature and we should all upload files to that Dropbox to make it easy for class-action access to material.

They may try to shut down some accounts here so you can all google Robert Manning Jr and my information and email is easy to find.

Oh, and yes, we should sue. We were promised a product, I even recorded Grant promising the upgrade at the 2015 NAB, and we bought a product because of that promise.

Like I said, they must have made a ton of money from the mini and they can stand to lose on this one.

But I will say this, I am not signing a non-disclosure this time. I am going to let everyone know how Blackmagic treats their customers.
Rob

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rick.lang

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 8:40 pm

I haven't looked to see if any of the media such as NewsShooter have interviewed BMD executives for their comments. We should see these interviews in a day or two.


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MartinVidic

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 8:45 pm

robertmanningjr wrote:
MartinVidic wrote:What the hell kind of company is this??? Tony Rivera!!! What happened??? Does that mean we should we suing BMD ?


Just read the NAB update from Blackmagic. Nothing about the turret. They removed the URSA from their website, I hope you all saved their previous websites, manual and info, and they ignored everyone. The URSA IS DEAD AND THEY LEFT US HANGING WITHOUT EVEN AN APOLOGY. My URSA's resale value just went to $500, maybe.

Well, I've had this happen before. My speculation is that their counsel advised all Blackmagic employees not to even mention a word as they prepare for litigation and settlement. I will set up a Dropbox with all of the URSA upgrade literature and we should all upload files to that Dropbox to make it easy for class-action access to material.

They may try to shut down some accounts here so you can all google Robert Manning Jr and my information and email is easy to find.

Oh, and yes, we should sue. We were promised a product, I even recorded Grant promising the upgrade at the 2015 NAB, and we bought a product because of that promise.

Like I said, they must have made a ton of money from the mini and they can stand to lose on this one.

But I will say this, I am not signing a non-disclosure this time. I am going to let everyone know how Blackmagic treats their customers.


THANX!!! Im a first time customer. I even spent 2000$ extra on the URSA because there was an issue and i had to fly the camera back to the US to have it fixed under guarantee. Working on sports related videos the camera was always pretty useless with just 80FPS. the turret was the ONLY reason why i bought it. and the 15 stops were important too. I will look you up on google once they close this thread and delete everybody who owns an URSA. Still hope this is just a bad dream. Please somebody pinch me.
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robertmanningjr

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 8:58 pm

MartinVidic wrote:What the hell kind of company is this??? Tony Rivera!!! What happened??? Does that mean we should start suing BMD? What's next? Lock this thread and just don't talk about the turret anymore?


I ser up an gmail blackmagicursamajor
Rob

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Gavin_c_clark

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 9:02 pm

Disgusting.

How can anyone trust this company again?

Lies. Deceit. False advertising.

And unsurprisingly no email advising me how they are going to make good on this. Not even a statement. Even after the CEO publicly said they were still working on it six weeks ago

Shame on you Blackmagic
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 9:06 pm

Btw. on the waybackmachine you can see different backups from different dates of the BMD website and they can never get rid of it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150627113 ... kmagicursa
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 9:09 pm

Tony Rivera wrote:There has been no announcement of discontinuing the turrets by us so there is some confusion obviously with this email. I've notified the appropriate people so we can get this cleared up.


No announcement... but apparently the email was NOT confusing anybody but shining some light on the situation? SO what happened? where is this announcement now? Or does BMD just prefer to keep going without announcement(s) in the future ? LOL
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 9:32 pm

The settlements might be less than trying to get the Turret up and running. It's such a clear cut case in the US in regards to consumer protection laws it's silly. They just have weighed out the options
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostMon Apr 24, 2017 9:38 pm

"Consumer law here deems that the product must be refunded or replaced if the product doesn't meet its advertised specs - regardless of time lapsed." - Joshua Dredge

I returned my Ursa in January through Amazon after owning it for 15 months for a $4000 refund, main reason being it looked pretty certain there was no upgrade coming. But if the consumer law Joshua mentions is true and applicable to US consumers, I wonder if it's worth going back to the retailer who sold it through Amazon, or possibly straight to Blackmagic, and trying to get the remaining $1000 to make up the full refund I should have actually gotten. The "user-upgradable" camera never became upgradable, period - user or otherwise. I'm thinking I'll try to recoup that balance. And if not successful I'll certainly be on board any sort of class action lawsuit that comes about. Thoughts?

Oh yeah -- and all the BMD reps on here are either being fed misinformation by higher-ups or are flaming liars. Just had to add that.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 12:06 am

So i just went to bhoto to see whats going on there and saw this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... grade.html

Is the loyalty upgrade a permanent option now?
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Donnell Henry

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 1:37 am

I have the big Ursa too ..I upgraded and got the mini pro. I love the big Ursa. I've shot on it many times and got my money back for sure. Now I was awaiting the PL version of the upgrade, and I do understand how some of you feel here, but ask yourselves how many times have you used your big Ursa since waiting on the upgrade. You probably shot great films, commercials, documentaries etc..with your big Ursa. Was the use of your Ursa WORTH the price. No one here can feel worse than I feel. I've bought 5 cams from blackmagic ..after I bought my version 1 Ursa they dropped the price by $1000 and released a version 2
I've bought a blackmagic production 4K and 3 months later they dropped the price, I bought an Ursa mini 4.6k and they come out with the pro. Hilarious right?..but guess what! I shot 4 films, music videos and commercials. None of that stopped me. I feel your pain ..but we have to utilize these cameras to their potential. These cameras are no where near obsolete. Your big ursa is still an amazing camera without the promised upgrade. 3 people can work around this camera at the same time, that's one of its biggest assets. It looks amazing on set, and I've gotten jobs just by the look of this camera. 4K is in full swing and is no where near dead. So why would your Big Ursa be obsolete? You may not trust blackmagic and you don't have to buy another camera from them, but while you have this cam in your hands make it work for you, whether the turret is still in the works or not.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 2:54 am

We need to hear from BMD. something official!!!
I'm still optimistic... hoping they are just trying to promote the mini pro for a few days or weeks. I really don't want the mini pro, 60fps sucks and the screen is too small, don't need that ND, don't need bluetooth, don't need the sd card slot, don't need any broadcasting options im not broadcaster, can't work with just one screen. I don't even like the form factor.

I can't believe this will be their flagship camera now. it's not good enough!!!!!!!!!!

And I even emailed people from BMD and they assured me the turret is coming, but that was a while ago.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 3:20 am

Looks like they won't be doing the Nikon Mount on the 4.6k pro, not that i cared but i don't see it listed on the website anymore either.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 4:22 am

Just wanted everyone to know I am swamped with work and won't be able to set everything up until this weekend, but rest assured, I will get the email and dropbox up and public as soon as possible.

Rob
Rob

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 4:28 am

MartinVidic wrote:Btw. on the waybackmachine you can see different backups from different dates of the BMD website and they can never get rid of it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20150627113 ... kmagicursa


Very helpful. Thank you.
Rob

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 4:38 am

Here is a video where Stuart from Blackmagic talks about the 4.6K turret. Seems discontinuation is a possible, if not probable, option. Though I'm making some assumptions. 13:04 in the video.

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 7:25 am

Tom Folger wrote:. But if the consumer law Joshua mentions is true and applicable to US consumers,


it's Australian consumer law. Blackmagic's an Australian company, so I'm hoping for a relatively quick solution. With the URSA being removed from the website, I will contact my vendor and Blackmagic reps now.
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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 8:12 am

Joshua Dredge wrote:Here is a video where Stuart from Blackmagic talks about the 4.6K turret. Seems discontinuation is a possible, if not probable, option. Though I'm making some assumptions. 13:04 in the video.


That's quick video from our man in vagas, I requested him to ask about the turret although he probably filmed it hours before. Top job Mat!

From the video the ursa guys and gals need to be telling bdm to keep at the turret.

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Ben Mart

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 8:44 am

Joshua Dredge wrote:
Tom Folger wrote:. But if the consumer law Joshua mentions is true and applicable to US consumers,


it's Australian consumer law. Blackmagic's an Australian company, so I'm hoping for a relatively quick solution. With the URSA being removed from the website, I will contact my vendor and Blackmagic reps now.

Joshua please keep us updated either way. Thanks

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 1:54 pm

Dear Blackmagicdesign.
What I get from you NAB interviews is the following:

• The turret is harder then you thought.
• You are not happy with the results "YET". But you didn't give up completely "YET"
• You are offering a loyalty upgrade for the ursa pro so we can get 15 stops for almost the same price. But thats not the camera people bought.
• You are monitoring how many people take advantage of this upgrade.
• From that last interview i also heard that you WILL abort the 4.6K turret if enough people jump on the loyalty upgrade wagon. THATS THE KEY HERE!!!

In conclusion... You are now trying to manipulate these numbers by taking all other pro cameras off your website. :evil: So you want people to panic and take the upgrade asap. And THEEEEEN you will retire the turret with an excuse!

Obviously the following thought went through my head yesterday... **** **** ****... I should have bought the sony fs700. I have no use for the minis... the fs700 has a higher frame rate, its cheaper, and lighter....Now what??? Lets check on the ursa pro loyalty upgrade.

I looked into the specs again and though maybe i should get a sony camera. i mean the minis have no global shutter either, less frame rate, cheaper... just more dynamic range. why waste more money on BMD.
I contacted BHPHOTO and they said its STILL active.

So here was my plan. Buy the PRO, and then sell everything black magic related. at least i would have made 500$ profit on the mini pro, right? total loss with BMD - around 2500$. And then ADIOS BMD... never again.

So YES, this would have increased your numbers. But somebody would have bought my USED cameras instead of new ones from you. SO YOU LOSE! In fact i had 3 people offer me 500$ to buy the UMPro for them. Now that everything else is off the website, a lot of ppl are panicking and of course your dirty methods will increase UMPro sales. And then you will say everybody took advantage of it.

PEOPLE JUST DONT DEMAND THE TURRET

HAHAHAHA thats just silly.
I could take advantage of it too in order to earn 500$ back from the pain.
But i bought the URSA for the turret, the screens, the frame rate, the global shutter etc.

Common... I have been carrying around a fat 22lbs baby for 2 years and now it turns out it has down syndrome and will never grow to its full potential???? U are telling us it will never be able to do more that this little square cinema camera for 1990$ ? what did i carry that weight around for. what did i spend the extra 3000$ on? what did i wait for?

If THATS your upgrade path now, you should have reached out to ursa buyers to see if they want that.

So here is whats happening.
Almost every user owner will buy the URSA pro, BUT NOT EVERYBODY WILL BUY IT BECAUSE THEY WANT IT.
People will still start suing. The person who tries to manipulate the numbers by forcing URSA buyers into the mini pro upgrade is doing more harm than good. You will sell UMPs for 3500 instead of 6000. A lot of people will have access to this camera for a lower price now.

If i get the pro instead of the turret. its my goodbye to BMD.
Please get the turret read.
Please fire the person who tries to manipulate UMP sales by removing all other pro cameras from the website.
What you are doing right now is JUST NASTY!!!!
I NEED THE TURRET!!!
Last edited by MartinVidic on Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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robertmanningjr

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Re: 4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 2:17 pm

Joshua Dredge wrote:Here is a video where Stuart from Blackmagic talks about the 4.6K turret. Seems discontinuation is a possible, if not probable, option. Though I'm making some assumptions. 13:04 in the video.



Well here are his numbers if he needs them:

"4.6K Turret for Original Ursa Owners?
by Brandon Richardson » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:17 am
Replies: 496
Views: 28274"

In a little over a month there are over 28,000 views. How about those numbers Blackmagic?

Two years ago at NAB the turret was promised in the 4th quarter of that year, then 2016 and it is now 2017. Blackmagic, you have to refund every URSA out there. Once all the URSA owners receive their refunds, then you will see how many original URSA owners ACTUALLY want an URSA mini pro. That's how it's supposed to work if you're serious about taking care of early adopters.
Rob

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