ef vs mft lens crops and choice help

Firstly hey people. New here so thought id say hi. Secondly before i get flamed ive had a good look around for a topic that covers these questions and couldnt find one so sorry if its a repeat thread. Im facing the choice a ton of people on here are, mft of ef. I have no real knowledge of how glass and mounts work so i was wondering. 1. Is the crop from the mft and the ef mount the same i.e will i get the same crop using the same lens on both mounts side by side. 2. Im aware that the only type of lens that is "properly usable" on the mft is a fully manual lens due to its passive nature. However just to be totally sure does this make all electronic lens (obviously without an electronic adater) useless due to the subseqently "locked" iris.? 3. Its my understanding that old lens such as say pentax m will work just fine on the ef mount with a standard ef to pentax m adapter that was designed for the 7d? Is this true or will i need to buy a whole new adapter ? Lastly am i right in thinking that the only added bonus to getting the mft mount is that it can take pl mount lens ? Can you retro fit pretty much any stills glass to the ef version ? Is it only the pl mount lens that will be problomatic/impossible to fit on the ef version?

Thx in advance for all answers guys and girls. The help is muchly needed.

Maybe I can partly answer some of your question. A big fat warning: if you want to move to other mounts and camera bodies with EF lenses, the Canon "walled garden" begins to seem more like a Roach Motel -- you can check in but you can't check out.

Here's a very useful chart: http://www.similaar.com/foto/lensmount/lensmount.html

You'll see from this that the mft ("m43") mount will tale almost all lens mounts (with adapters not requiring glass elements) whereas the EF will take very few. Since the mft BMCC will also accommodate the Arri PL mount, mft is the obvious route if you want access to many brands.

The misery kicks in if you have or want to use EOS EF lenses on another other mount/body. These lenses have no external aperture ring. It seems that the BMCC has a way to control the EOS iris -- though this is not yet fully implemented -- but it's not clear if this will ever be the case on the mft version. This means that to change the iris you will have to take the EF lens off the BMCC, set it via a Canon body, and return it. Think for a moment of what this will mean, especially if you have an inconvenient matte-box or you're on a stabilizer.

This presents a dilemma for anyone wanting to integrate Canon lenses or third-party EF lenses with the mft version -- such as, shall we say, Zeisses -- best to get them in a Nikon mount, which retains the exterior aperture ring. It will fit to an EF body with a simple adapter. The (manual-only) focus ring moves in the opposite-to-standard way, and You Will Lose Focus Confirmation on EOS cameras (I know this from experience) but you'll be able to migrate such lenses to mft no trouble.

There is no difference in crop factor between the two mounts. If the Metabones Speed Booster ever appears in mft incarnation, and the mft BMCC ever appears in quantity, you'll have something approaching the full-frame focal length of your full-frame lenses on it. Hallelujah.

Good luck. I hope some more experienced hand will correct any errors I may have made.

There is also at least one electronic mount adapter which allows using electronic EF lenses on the BMCC-MFT's passive MFT mount.

(Note that electronic MFT lenses, such as Panasonic Lumix, can't be used on any BMCC.)

Which one is that Peter? Does it involve a second iris built into the adopter? Does it have this or any other issues affecting IQ?

Thanks for the replies guys v helpfully and appreciated but here's the thing. Although i'm aware or some pretty good progress with things like the metabone adapter giving flexibility and even some electronic control its v expensive and the attractive and fair price point that black magic have set will soon become almost average with the added cost of high end $300 adapters new lens, monitors etc so I'm trying to avoid these adapters/costs and just use the non electronic $20 ones. At present its only really financially feasible for me to own low end / low cost cameras for personal and small jobs music vids etc. I rent bigger cameras for bigger projects features, shorts etc so I really have no need for and can't afford pl lens or even expensive stills glass (my limit glass wise tends to be $300) and as such I'm not bothered in mounting those lens on the bmcc. Therefore I'm only really going to use the ef lens, old pentax m and nikon lens I have and currently use on my dslr. I guess then thanks to the answer to my cropping question (cheers mate appreciated), I just need to find out if anyone has had any experience using the lens types mentioned above on the ef mount bmcc with said appropriate adapters? If all the aforementioned lens will work just fine on the ef version of the bmcc then for me there shouldn't be any draw backs really.

once again cheers guys p.s cheers for the compatbility chart just gonna have a look now

yer a link would be great peter cheers, electronic control on passive :0 thats some kinda black magic right there

Electronic EF lens on MFT:
http://www.mtfservices.com/home.html?pa ... egory_id=2

Not inexpensive. There may be others.

I haven't used it myself, so YMMV.

Yes, I think this one has its own iris, and with the big "control unit" dongle, 645 pounds! -- at least from this seller, who's flopped the image and provides close to zero information. I wouldn't go there.

Yes, I think this one has its own iris, and with the big "control unit" dongle, 645 pounds! -- at least from this seller, who's flopped the image and provides close to zero information. I wouldn't go there.

To the best of my knowledge the MTF adapter does not have an iris. It provides electronic control & support for a Canon EF lens (including the lens' own iris, etc.) and adapts it to the MFT mount.

I'm not sure what you mean the image is "flopped". The large photo at the link I provided shows the unit upside down so you can see the electrical contacts.

Although their solution is not inexpensive compared to simple mechanical-only mount adapters, it may well be fairly priced, especially since there may or may not be a similar alternative, and it may be much less expensive in comparison to many people's investment in Canon EF lenses.

I've heard MTF has a good reputation. Have you tried contacting them if you have questions?

@Peter -- sorry about the "flopped" vs upside down, of course you're right about that.

More than a thousand dollars for this clumsy device to preserve auto-focus in manual Zeiss lenses is too pricey for me -- maybe not so much for people with an EF hoard. Of course this is all swirling round a $3000 camera. Note the reaction when P Bloom began promoting the prototype:

http://philipbloom.net/2011/09/09/ibc-2 ... -af100101/

Here's a brief field review (a year ago it was closer to $1600):

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2012/01/ ... y-f3fs100/

Anybody using one of these? I suppose it would work with a Speed Booster but can anyone imagine this better, i.e., for sure?

Here's an undated survey of this kind of stuff for EOS, not older than 2011:

http://technoclopedia-canon-eos.com/ind ... s_misc.htm

I might add that I told by more than one employee at B&H when I asked, that Yes, EF Zeiss lenses were considered to some degree crippled by lack of an aperture ring and that this was reflected in higher prices and demand for ZF.2 versions of the Distagon/Planar series.

"used versions," I meant to write. I sure wish it was otherwise. Wouldn't it be nice to use Canon bodies for photos and some other multi-platform box for movies and the same Zeiss lenses with what limited electronics they do have, on each? Then wouldn't life be simple as potatoes, or am I missing something again?

If the Metabones Speed Booster ever appears in mft incarnation, and the mft BMCC ever appears in quantity, you'll have something approaching the full-frame focal length of your full-frame lenses on it. Hallelujah.

Good luck. I hope some more experienced hand will correct any errors I may have made.

Metabones plan on releasing a dumb MFT Speed Booster for EF lens in March and a electronic version for iris control in June.
The sensor on the BMCC lies between S16 and M43. With the Speed Booster via and MFT mount it will make EF lenses behave like an S35 or on a APS-C 1.5 crop body. S35 or Super 35mm or close to 1.5 crop is not the same as FF or 35mm on a SLR which has a bigger 1.0 sensor

Thanks for this Samjack! I knew it would be more than 1x but how much more I couldn't figure out and the company didn't answer my query. 1.5x is still a nice long way from 2.3 or 2.4x.

Just so I'm completely clear on your news: will the June gizmo combine the iris control & Speed Booster functions in one?

Just so I'm completely clear on your news: will the June gizmo combine the iris control & Speed Booster functions in one?

The version coming out in June is an electronic mount. It won't work to control the aperture/IS on EF lenses when used on the passive MFT mount on the BMCC.

It is intended for electronic MTF mounts like those found on the GH1/2/3 etc.

The speed boost optics would still function tho.

Not sure what kind of focal reducing the MFT version will be but if it is anything like the NEX to EF which is a 0.7x then we can expect around 1.6 crop Canon APS-C for the BMCC 2.3 crop.

"used versions," I meant to write. I sure wish it was otherwise. Wouldn't it be nice to use Canon bodies for photos and some other multi-platform box for movies and the same Zeiss lenses with what limited electronics they do have, on each? Then wouldn't life be simple as potatoes, or am I missing something again?

You can use the ZF.2 on a Canon body with an adaptor. It would function almost the same as a ZE as both are manual focus lenses. 2 differences being aperture is controlled from the ring rather than the camera body and it focuses in the opposite direction.

So if you wanted a Zeiss lens that could be used on multiple systems buy the ZF.2.

@adamroberts Indeed I've been trying just that, as I mentioned earlier. You lose focus confirmation too. Even though that's not a sure-fire guide it can be useful.

BTW do you know what practical deficit if any comes from using ZF as opposed to ZF.2 with EF mount adapter?

Just came back from the Dogs Bollox website, they are considering a turret style mount consisting of several different lens mounts for their future cameras. The ergonomics of that camera made it possible and would easily solve production issues were they can manufacture just a single system.

@adamroberts Indeed I've been trying just that, as I mentioned earlier. You lose focus confirmation too. Even though that's not a sure-fire guide it can be useful.

You can get adaptors with AF confirm chips in them. Not sure how well they work as I've never used them.

BTW do you know what practical deficit if any comes from using ZF as opposed to ZF.2 with EF mount adapter?

The ZF and ZF.2 use the same glass and optical design. Only difference is the the ZF.2 has electronic contacts so the modern Nikon bodies can identify the lens and control the aperture from the camera body (aperture ring locks into f/16 or that ever the max aperture is).

Not sure what kind of focal reducing the MFT version will be but if it is anything like the NEX to EF which is a 0.7x then we can expect around 1.6 crop Canon APS-C for the BMCC 2.3 crop.

I believe it will be the same 0.71x focal reducer so the 'new' crop factor when mounted on the BMCC MFT mount camera will be about 1.62x, just like shooting with a Canon APS-C sensor such as the 7D (only better). When you mount the Speed Booster on a camera with a true MFT sensor, it's apparent crop factor goes from 2x to only 1.42x, just like a Super35mm field of view.

People are commonly referring to a shorter formal length for their prime lens rather than expressing this as a change in 'crop factor' so if you have a real 14mm f/2.8 (full-frame) EF lens on the Blackmagic Cinema Camera, it seems to be popular to say you now have a 10mm f/2 lens! Regardless without the Speed Booster, that lens would normally appear to have a field-of-view of a lens on a full-frame camera with a focal length of about 32mm f/2.8, but if you add the Metabones Speed Booster, it will appear as if the field-of-view was like a 23mm f/2 lens.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I believe it will be the same 0.71x focal reducer so the 'new' crop factor when mounted on the BMCC MFT mount camera will be about 1.62x, just like shooting with a Canon APS-C sensor such as the 7D (only better). When you mount the Speed Booster on a camera with a true MFT sensor, it's apparent crop factor goes from 2x to only 1.42x, just like a Super35mm field of view.

The GH2 has a MFT mount but has an oversize multi-aspect sensor and is actually a 1.85 crop. If the Speed Booster can accommodate all of the GH2 sensor we could see a crop factor of around 1.3 or approaching APS-H.

I believe it will be the same 0.71x focal reducer so the 'new' crop factor when mounted on the BMCC MFT mount camera will be about 1.62x, just like shooting with a Canon APS-C sensor such as the 7D (only better). When you mount the Speed Booster on a camera with a true MFT sensor, it's apparent crop factor goes from 2x to only 1.42x, just like a Super35mm field of view.

The GH2 has a MFT mount but has an oversize multi-aspect sensor and is actually a 1.85 crop. If the Speed Booster can accommodate all of the GH2 sensor we could see a crop factor of around 1.3 or approaching APS-H.

I didn't realize your post to which I was replying referred to an oversize MFT sensor. You would be right about the apparent crop factor change to about 1.3x then if the GH2 is normally about 1.85x and the image circle produced by the Metabones Speed Booster does in fact completely cover that oversize sensor. Thanks!

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I don't have info to add, but i do have a question. Would the Helios 44-2 be a decent lens for the MFT when it finally starts shipping. I have one and I'd like to put it to good use. Also I'm probably not ready to drop another 500-1000 on a lens right now any suggestions on some quality inexpensive lens for the MFT?

I don't have info to add, but i do have a question. Would the Helios 44-2 be a decent lens for the MFT when it finally starts shipping. I have one and I'd like to put it to good use. Also I'm probably not ready to drop another 500-1000 on a lens right now any suggestions on some quality inexpensive lens for the MFT?

If you like the Helios look (it is based on the Zeiss Biotar design) then you may try to find a Pentacon 29mm in good shape. It would be a good match. The Helios will be equivalent to a little over 120mm on a full frame sensor, while the Pentacon would give you around 70mm equivalency.

Another suggestion - and this one you can buy brand new for around US$ 250 - is the russian Zenitar 16mm. It is a full frame fisheye, but with the BMCC crop you should get very little distortion and a field of view roughly equivalent to a 35mm.

Finding ultrawide older lenses can be very difficult.