How much to invest on a monitor?

Hi,

As some of you already know, I´m a drone operator with a brand new MicroCinema. As the camera does not have any screen I must adjust it before taking off (HD link in my wish list to allow for live adjustments), and in this first days with the camera I´m doing it with my old and cheap 7´monitor I´ve always used for fpv flying (flying the drone from the minicamera point of view).

But obviously that monitor is a cheap one, the cheapest I found actually , and since with the BMMCC the monitor play a role to take a good shot, I must invest on a good one. I´ve been using the histogram as a reference with good results, and focus peaking has been a revelation to me, didn´t see it before and I LOVE it. But white balance is a different story... I´ve had some surprise with this.

Video Assist was first option wich came to my mind, but 5´screen look like a bit small. Not a big problem but bigger is better, as always so I´ve been looking at different options.

Now the real question, I´ve seen monitors from 200-300... 400... 500€.... and then there´s a jump to 1200 and more. The most affordable do not mention anything about calibration, or white balance adjustments, and that´s normal I guess, but I don´t think Video Assist may be considered a cheap monitor and is below the jump to 1200€.

Is it worth that jump? Is there any benefit I´ll notice in my case for those monitors? Any recomendation?

If you are going to be using the monitor to make decisions other than just framing then is important to get a reliable device with a good panel and the ability to make adjustments to replicate what you expect to be seeing in the edit suite.
The price of gear has become very affordable nowadays, but you still get what you pay for.
You need to decide what you can afford and what you need and choose accordingly.

Denny Smith has been making very good recommendations and I hope that he will jump on this thread or else you could PM him.

Thanks Leon, here are a few suggestions. For making color balance choices in the field, the SmallHD 501 is a solid choice, and their new 7-inch monitor is a good value also. The Ikan D5W is also good, I have one, from before the VA, and it has scopes and false color exposure aids.

I use the Video Assist 5-inch HD, and it works well also, as I set WB with 4500K as a starting point, and go up to 5200-5500 in mid day to afternoon shots. I also use a color meter application in my IPhone, to get this dialed in. So the slightly off tint of the VA is not an issue for me.
Cheers

I had the chance to see this monitor at CineGear in L.A..
Once again you get what you pay for but this seemed to be a good bang for your buck.

Q5 - 5" FULL HD SDI/HDMI CROSS CONVERSION

http://www.lilliputweb.com/index.php/q5 ... rsion.html

q5-1.jpg (249.67 KiB) Viewed 11249 times

I'm looking at the Video Assist 4K with the 7" screen which now has false colour to judge exposure and adds another means of recording video so you could record raw in the BMMCC and record ProRes video in the BMVA4. I feel 5" is too small, at least for my old eyes.


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Yes the VA-7-inch/4K is also nice. But the false color and other new features in FW2.2 are not out yet. But, they are dimming soon to a BM website near you...
Cheers

Yes the VA-7-inch/4K is also nice. But the false color and other new features in FW2.2 are not out yet. But, they are dimming soon to a BM website near you...
Cheers

So far that VA7 update notice has been more aspirational than informational. Who knows when it will be out or if it ever will be out. I only count on BM product features that are released. And even then I've got to install it and check it out before I can count on it. I like BM and their products, but they got a lot of growing up to do when it comes to doing technology on purpose.

Are the Q5 and VA-7" calibrated?

The VA is not a calibrated reference monitor, it is a camera shooting monitor/recorder, and their is no "color tint/hue" control, which would be needed to color calibrate it.
DS

Of course its not a reference monitor.. the question is are they calibrated.. are whites white, reds red, blues blue. The first iterations of the VA proved not so, not sure if this issue was addressed for the VA. Not sure also if the Q5 has the same issue.. its a big deal when buying monitor.

Sorry Blaine, misunderstood your question. However, the VA still has a slight green bias, and rhe VA4K is also reported to have a slight green bias too, so I would say no, it's not calibrated in a strict technical sense. That said, it is close, and the green bias is very slight on newer units, so it is not really noticeable, unless you compare it to another calibrated monitor.
Cheers

Then any advice about an affordable calibrated monitor?

OSEE LCM156 10bit monitor, may still have some special pricing if the discount codes in post #64 are still valid. Some folks here bought one...

http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1 ... ng+monitor



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Not valid

Thanks anycase

I use a SmallHD AC7-SDI monitor which I later outfitted with an LP-E6 battery plate. It sits atop a small noga/israeli arm and I got a nice Canare 3G-SDI cables of various lengths and colors. It also accepts HDMI which you can get anywhere. At the time of purchase I also bought a D-tap power cable. Over time this entire system has cost probably less than $1200...but the monitor itself was only $899. Nowadays they only offer the OLED version which is $999. It's a great little monitor that gives me all the scopes and things I need, but it's not also a field recorder.

As far as field recorders go, the VA ones aren't bad at all...especially the little one because it takes inexpensive SD cards. There are much better monitors out there, and BM's pricing has forced others – like Atomos – to drop their prices, as well. I don't particularly care for Atomos products, but they're alright. I do like the Video Devicex PIX-E series as they are also pretty good and they can record sizes up to DCI 4K, as well as 1080p up to 120fps, in all my favorite flavors of ProRes. All the units I'm talking about range in price from ~$400-$1500.

You really can't let price be the sole deciding factor in this business. Either way you spend a lot of money and then you settle for a device that doesn't do everything you need it to do and it all just becomes frustrating. If you have $1000 but the Flanders Scientific reference monitor is $1500, then save up the extra $500 and get that monitor. It might take a little longer, but once you have the one you wanted in your hands, it'll all have been worth it.

Flanders Scientific monitors actually aren't that cheap, I don't think.

Monitors from Marshall are great: robust and built like tanks. There's a reason you usually will notice Marshall monitors on camera rigs in Hollywood, as it were. I never cared for the cheap brands like Lilliput, Elvid, Ikan, Digital Juice and others. You just get what you pay for in this business and I'd want my tools to be able to put up with professional shooting environments and sometimes your gear gets knocked around. Sometimes your gear doesn't get knocked around and you just expect it to perform. I don't like having cheap gear that will stop working in the middle of an easy shoot. It's happened, but with the cheap ones.

Cheap monitors, like the new Lilliput BM150, might be an okay one to hand to a director who just wants to see the action and direct from video village. Cheap monitors might be ok for the operator. I wouldn't want to get critical focus with a cheap monitor with cheap resolution and wanky focus assist functions. Not on a pro shoot where money is burning away every second.

It's really up to you, but I wouldn't want to spend my money on something that doesn't work.

If you need to judge things like white balance in the field then you need to spend the money on an expensive, calibrated reference monitor. Get a SmallHD-brand monitor, or, if you need a recorder, then the VA ones probably just fine for what you need to do, especially the newer batches as others have pointed out.

Whatever happens, just expect to spend between $400 and $1500 for a good field monitor.

Thank you very much for the detailed reply Jason I don´t need recorder at all, and I know price cannot be the deciding factor, that´s the reason I opened this thread, I want to hear/read opinions from people with experience because I´m far from an expert in this field but do need good equipment


I´m looking at SmallHD monitors now, the AC7-OLED looks great and not pricey at all, but there are several options for the brand. The 702 bright with its high contrast surely would be a great option for viewing into daylight, wich is almost a constant in my case. There´s also the DP7-OLED, but I´m not sure what´s the advantage compared to the AC7-OLED, but there must be some as it costs almost 3x


I surely need some more reading before purchasing, thanks for the help

I am also looking for a field monitor. I don't like the design of IKAN and SmallHD and the footage i´ve seen from focus peak doesn't look good.

What about the "Aputure VS-2 FineHD 7" Monitor?
Its only 280 Dollar / Euros. I would spend more. I like that the focus peeking looks good and its has not 20 buttons under the screens, or knops like the one from IKAN. SmallHD seem overpriced. But i don't know nothing about field Monitors yet. any suggestions?

I wrote a question to SmallHD asking about differences between their 500/700 series and AC7 series, as I have some doubts about what will be better for me, an awesome OLED screen or the bright display of the 701bright monitor, this is the reply:

Hi,
I would recommend the bright version. While the OLED panels are nice for the shooting and running and gunning (not shooting everything in a studio) the ability to be able to turn up the back light and see it in bright sunlight is key. The AC7 does not have as nice a software package and all the 700 and 500 series monitors have the same software package including the ability to use LUT's send images downstream.

If the price of the 702 bright is a problem we do have sunhoods for the monitors. I would tend to steer you away from the AC7 monitors just because the 500 and 700 series have a better software package on them and are just a bit more versatile.

I hope that hleps, let me know if you have any other questions.

Now I wonder what are the software differences

Got the reply to my second question about software differences,

The software differences is the AC7 does not have the ability to process LUTs, it can not pass HDMI downstream, it does not have as many features like waveform, image capture, Zebra's and does not cross convert HDMI and SDI.

Yes the 702 bright can be seen in daylight without a hood. The normal LCD panel is around 200-400 nits and the 702 is 1,000 nits. or about 4 times as bright as a regular LCD panel.

Thanks,

They´re nice, but I specially like the second paragraph, shooting without a hood in daylight seems too good to be true, specially in my case as I´m always fighting with the sun to see the screen

Hi again,

I´m resuming this idea as I´d not done anything yet. I´ve been thinking about the subject and I´ve realiced the most important thing to me is brightness, so the SmallHD 702 bright is the perfect monitor to me. But it is $1500 or 2000€ if bought in Spain, and that´s a lot of money, so I´m considering different options

Problem is any bright monitor is expensive. I´ve done a comparison table and the only bright monitors noticeably cheaper than the SHD are the Marshall V-LCD70MD at $800 and 800 nits, two 10 inches monitors but they´re 650nits (Elvid OCM-10 and FeelWorld FW1018S). A 10 inches monitor must be great for watching, but not for carrying on top of my handheld gimbal I´m afraid... There´s also another 7 inches monitor, the Elvid FieldVision OCM-7B wich only cost $240 and it´s 600nits, but I wonder if 600nits will make any noticeable difference with my 450nits monitor...

Any comment about any of these or about brands in general (I´m a bit afraid about Feelworld) will be welcome

Common experience when we find something "perfect for me" it's often priced a little out of reach. I don't know how quickly you need the SmallHD 702, but it does seem to be alone at the top of the hill so the price is going to stay up until there's some direct competition or SmallHD releases another improved product. Wait and see what NAB 2017 brings?

1000 nits, 'retina' display, 100% Rec.709, LUTs: it's going to serve you well for many years.

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If you're considering the SmallHD 702 bright, I'd throw the Atomos Shogun Flame into the mix for consideration. I recently purchased one and have used it a few times outdoors now... even in direct bright sun with no hood... and it's been great. I believe they have a $300 rebate on them right now until the end of January.

Here are some of the specs/functionality:

• 1920 x1200 Touchscreen Display
• 10-Bit FRC Monitor Processing
• 4K HDMI and 12G-SDI Inputs/Outputs
• 1500 cd/m² Brightness
• HDR Mode with 10 Stop Dynamic Range
• High Bright Mode for Rec. 709 Viewing
• UHD 4K up to 30p / 1080p up to 120 fps
• 10-Bit 4:2:2 ProRes & DNxHR Encoding
• Records to 2.5" SSD/HDD Media
• Dual Sony L-Series Battery Slots

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c

I'd like to support Chris's suggestion here. Since I got my UM46k I was looking at the SmallHD 702 Bright and a few days ago I was ready to order the full kit for €1.500 ex VAT from an online shop. But the kit was gone and I was facing to pay the same amount just for the monitor only.
Luckily they had a promotion ad of the Atomos series. And with the cashback rebate it is really a good deal. And it already comes as a package with 2 batteries, charger and sun hood.

So I ordered the Atomos Shogun Inferno, because it will record up to 2160p60.

Andres, you could order from Germany and if you have a European VAT number you could order VAT free (like I did).
http://www.videodata.de/shop/products/d ... Flame.html

The Atomos Shogun Flame is priced atm at EUR 1.271,25 ex VAT and you will get a EUR 300,- cashback rebate from Atomos, which sets the price below 1k EUR

The set contains:
- Shogun Inferno Recorder
- single 12 V charger with power supply
- power supply with 12 V / 3 A DC Out
- DC adapter cable from Anton Bauer (m) to 2,1 mm plug
- 2 batteries, 7,4 V / 5,2 Ah / 38 Wh (Sony NP-F like)
- Y-adapter cable from 2,5 mm (m) to 2x 2,5 mm (f) for LANC Loop Through
- Audio-adapter cable from Lemo 10-polig (m) to 2x XLR (f) and 2x XLR (m)
- Caddy Docking Station with integrated USB 3.0 cable for SSDs / HDDs with eSATA connector
- 5 cartridges for SSD/HDD (Master Caddy)
- sun hood
- hard case with removeable shoulder strap

Yes, it is good deal. But does the Shogun support LUTS, multiple screens, preset for focus, waveform and false color? The 702 does this and more high end monitor features. I started out using the BM Video Assist with my Micro camera, but ended up selling it and getting a SmallHD 501, the added monitor features, and scopes are worth the extra cost, but I got a good deal on a slightly used kit. You need to take all the features, and ease of use into consideration when selecting a high end monitor like this.

If you are going to consider the Shogun, should also consider the BM Video Assist 4K, which has a higher resolution screen than the other two monitors above, same feature set as the Shogun. The VA makes a good basic monitor, and now it supports LUTS (which you can use to get a basic color calibration to take care of the slight gree tint issue). It also has a nice high resolution screen that is fairly easy to see outdoors in bright light conditions.
Cheers

Wasn't there a problem with the Atomos 12G talking to the BMD 12G? Has that been corrected?


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Wasn't there a problem with the Atomos 12G talking to the BMD 12G? Has that been corrected?

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I was recording prores from my 4.6 to SSD in the Shogun over SDI and didn't have any issues.
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Chris

The VA4k has the same resolution screen as the Atomos, which is 1920x1200

The Video OS includes tools for focus, framing & exposure (Focus peaking, 2:1/1:1 zoom, Zebra, False Color, Frame guides, SMPTE Safe Area, Waveform, RGB parade, vectorscope) along with a flexible 3D LUT implementation (use built-in LOG to Rec.709 Video or upload .cube files) and options for anamorphic de-squeeze monitoring.

Yes, it is good deal. But does the Shogun support LUTS, multiple screens, preset for focus, waveform and false color?

Not sure about the other ATMOS, but my Shogun Flame supports 3D LUTS, and has a super easy-to-use touchscreen interface which includes focus peaking, false color and waveform and just about anything else I can think of.

EDIT: Guess Robert beat me to it.
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c

Thank you all for the replies, certainly the Shogun looks like a great option too, even brighter than the 702 Bright and with a good recorder Problem is it´s also >$1k and I´m not sure if I should invest that amount of money right now. That´s the reason I was looking at more affordable options

It also has a nice high resolution screen that is fairly easy to see outdoors in bright light conditions.

That´s interesting. I´ve not been able to find VA brightness anywhere, and since I´ve decided that´s the most important factor to me as I always shot outdoors that was stopping me from considering VA seriously.

How bright would you say it is? Do you think I could use it on my handheld gimbal and I could frame even with direct sunlight at the screen? Or at least with a sun hood?

Since I´m not going to invest on a >$1k monitor I´ve assumed it will not be a really bright monitor, wich means I´ll need a sun hood. But even with a sun hood I have serious problem now with the sun at my back. My current monitor is 450 cd/m2 and can see nothing in those conditions. When some part of the screen is receiving direct sunlight even the rest of the screen is almost impossible to watch. If I´m going to purchase a new monitor it must be an very noticeable improvement in this aspect, but looks like brightness and price are directly related, so I can´t find too many options.

The Elvid FieldVision and FeelWorld IPS looks like affordable options, but at 600 nits both that´s only a 33% improvement in this aspect so not sure if it´s worth. But they´re around $250 wich is tempting

Next step is the Marshall lcd70md wich is similar price to VA 4k wich much lower resolution, but 800 nits, probably more than VA

I´m looking at second hand too, but can´t find any good monitor on sale. Do you know any specialized site for second hand monitors?

BTW, I´ve find a second hand Marshall at around $500. That´s 800nits and by far the cheapest monitor I´ve find close to 1000nits. But it´s only 1024x600 resolution... That´s too low, or not? Is that enough for a 7 inches monitor?

To me that looks like too low, but I think Marshall is a serious brand wich manufacture profesional equipment so if they´re selling monitors with that resolution maybe it´s enough?

My 800x480 monitor looks like crap, and 1024x600 is not too far

Sorry Robert, didn't pick,up,the Shogun was the new "Flame", missed that one (thinking it was the original Shogun) and yes is out performs the VA4K in terms of monitor options and has the same resolution. Thanks for the correction.
Cheers.

Andres, I took the original 5-inch VA out in the sun, and the screen was viewable in direct sunlight, but a Hood would reduce glare reflections on the monitor. I do not know the brightness on a nits scale.
Cheers

BTW, I´ve find a second hand Marshall at around $500. That´s 800nits and by far the cheapest monitor I´ve find close to 1000nits. But it´s only 1024x600 resolution... That´s too low, or not? Is that enough for a 7 inches monitor?

To me that looks like too low, but I think Marshall is a serious brand wich manufacture profesional equipment so if they´re selling monitors with that resolution maybe it´s enough?

My 800x480 monitor looks like crap, and 1024x600 is not too far

Andres, even 1280x800 like my 7" SmallHD AC-7 looks bad compared to the 1920x1080 of the built in screen of the URSA Mini. I really wouldn't go below 1080p for 7" anymore nowadays.

If you don't need SDI inputs and can live with HDMI only, you could get the Atomos Ninja Flame
http://www.videodata.de/shop/products/d ... Flame.html

With €200 cash back it is €770 ex VAT

Andres, I took the original 5-inch VA out in the sun, and the screen was viewable in direct sunlight, but a Hood would reduce glare reflections on the monitor. I do not know the brightness on a nits scale.
Cheers

Not sure about the reason I didn´t reply this post when read it weeks ago, but THANK YOU Denny, I think I´ll go for this one, affordable price, 3D luts, fhd, and if it is bright enough then it´s almost perfect. Almost as I´d prefer a bit bigger screen, but since I can´t affort all I want, I think this is by far my best option

Next week there´s a BlackMagic showroom here in Madrid, I´ve just registered. I´ve never been in one of these so I think this is a good oportunity to make my first

FYI... ATOMOS just lowered some of their prices the other day. The Shogun Flame (which is what I had purchased) is now $999 USD (was ~$1600 previously).

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Chris

We buy two monitor FW759 FW760 from B&H.
The quality is goods. Both of them can support 1080p 60hz signal.
FW760 can support HDMI 4K signal.
The price is perfect.
So I recommend FEELWORLD monitor.