Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

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David Regenthal

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostSat Mar 04, 2017 6:23 pm

In the 10 months that I had my 4.6k it more then paid for itself.
Then I sold it for 80% of what I paid for it.

I might consider a Mini Pro one day when I'm able to work again but in all candor it wouldn't break my heart to go with another Mini 4.6k because, when I was patient with myself, I was able to squeeze some very satisfying results out of that camera. That's just me (I'm not trying to convince anyone else of anything). Maybe I'm just lucky . . .
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostSat Mar 04, 2017 6:24 pm

Following on Jamie's and Robert's remarks, it's possible if the URSA Mini Pro had been announced at NAB 2016, I would have returned my URSA Mini 4.6K PL that I bought the week before. But I'd been on the cycle of "wait there's a better camera coming" for a few years. Let's face it, I was relieved there wasn't a new camera announced at NAB 2016. And as it turns out it wouldn't have shipped for another 11 months after they announced it, just like the URSA Mini 4.6K (production release of the) cameras. There were many voices who spoke out against these infuriating announcements of cameras all "shipping in July" so it became a running joke. The takeaway seriously was the message to BMD: announce cameras when they are ready to buy and shipping, please. Okay, surprise, we got our wish.

I'll miss having the improved features on the Pro camera, but I wouldn't trade the last 11 months shooting experience for anything. It was time for me to jump into the water and learn to swim with the fishes.

Who knows, next year, we shall be all excited about the next newest and greatest unveiling? I'm sure if we thought hard we could come up with a list of the five must-have features that are missing from the Pro camera. And in that list I'll bet BMD is working on most of them and have a few ideas of their own!


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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostSat Mar 04, 2017 8:27 pm

Beyond the Pro shipping as it was announced there is also another interesting difference with the Ursa Mini Pro release compared to past. It marks the first time that BMD has two cameras in their line up that do not differ in the sensor or form factor. All that separates them are features. In the rest of the lineup of cameras, each model is separated by either a different sensor (HD v. 2.5K v 4k v 4.6K, each one offering different color and dynamic range characteristics) or a different form factor. For example, the Micro Cinema Camera and Pocket Cinema Camera are both HD, but they have different physical forms and ergonomics. The 2.5K Cinema Camera and 4K Production Camera have the same form, but vastly different sensors.

The Ursa Mini and Ursa Mini Pro offer the same sensors, the same form factor (the body of both cameras weigh nearly the same and accept exactly the same accessories). The differences are that the Pro offers interchangeable lens mounts and has far more features than the original Ursa Mini for just $1K more.

With the other BMD cameras there are sensor and form factor differences that are compelling for different use cases, but what reason is there for anyone to ever choose the original Ursa Mini over the Pro? The only reason I can think of is for buyers where the ~20% difference in the purchase price is worth trade off for the missing features relative to the Pro. For how many people will that trade off be worth making?

Although the original 2.5K Cinema Camera is nearly 4 years old, there are still advantages to the form factor for various setups (gimbals, for example) and the better dynamic range of its sensor relative to the 4K Production Camera does make it a better choice for some buyers despite the 4K offering more resolution in the same form factor. Yet for the original Ursa Mini, I can't think of any compelling reason to choose it over the Pro beyond the minor cost savings. Can anyone think of a reason that I'm failing to consider?

Why am I making this point? Because I think that the original Ursa Mini is not really a different model of camera than the Pro as BMD is claiming. It is simply a beta version of the Pro model. And, I doubt that it will last in BMD's lineup the same 4 years (and counting) as the original Cinema Camera has done.
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Stephen Press

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostSat Mar 04, 2017 8:40 pm

I've had mine for a month. 4 paid days with it and I'm still waiting on accessories (filters etc.) I've ordered online. Not feeling the love.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostSun Mar 05, 2017 4:34 pm

Jamie, you may be right. At this point the only advantage of the URSA Mini 4.6K cameras is the lower price point and the 5" monitor versus the 4" monitor on the Pro cameras. Having a 20% larger monitor is nice to have, but likely the better preamps on the Pro is more than compensation for the smaller monitor. BMD has been an absolutely unique manufacturer of Cinema cameras in that they have not yet discontinued any camera, but of course inevitably the day will come. But it won't be in the next year while the $1,000 will still attract new sales. After a year, could be. Mind you, those who love shooting with their Mini 'Beta' camera will be using them for several more years after that as long as the camera suits their requirements.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostSun Mar 05, 2017 10:29 pm

Guys, I feel the Ursa Mini and the UM Pro are really different models in a similar case with the same sensor. After that, they differ in many ways.

The UM is aimed primarily at Cine style shooting, in controlled situations, either on sticks or handheld. The UM 4.6 has two options, based on lens mount, EF and PL. The PL model did add a B4 mount in an attempt to cover some ENG like shooting situations, but fell short due to the cinematography set up with shooting options based on a menu system, abiet, a well layed out menu system, but it requires the 5-inch monitor to access, and select options with.

The UM Pro has one model, with interchangeable lens mounts. Many of the menu only functions that are needed quickly in ENG/Documentary shooting is available on the outside of the camera with physical switches, selector knob and a small mpB&W monitor for set up selections, including a actual power switch on the outside, so the color monitor can be left folded in. A nice option here would be to be able to rotate this monitor the other way round (like the AF100 did) to access the color monitor when the camera is in a gimbal rig. This is where the big differences lie, in the way the two cameras are designed to be used, the Mini on sticks, and the Pro more of a shoulder mount rig, that also is at home in sticks.

These additional controls are a make or break feature when shooting quick moving Documentary type situations. The two models complement each other nicely, and offer the user a choice as to which features are important to the type of shooting they do. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 2:48 am

Can anyone tell me how that I/lens data ON THE PL Mount for the 4.6k Pro works ..I see the connectors on the mount ..and I'm also guessing that the lens must have those connectors as well. I know Cooke s4i's etc will work ..but what about Schniedar's or Ziess cp.2's. What lenses are compatible to transfer data using this /i lens tech?
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:34 am

No, Zeiss CPs are not going to transfer any data to the camera. The compatible cameras must have data contacts in the mount. Only a few new PL lenses, like the Cooke's have them, and a few of the new Cine Zooms will transfer data via the mount.
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Darko Djerich

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:59 am

New model sure has excited everyone but i am more excited of new Resolve affordable mini panels.
Getting UM Pro wont change anything in my shoot really compare to what UM mini does at the moment with intended
set up i own.
However,these resolve panels will be more then handy.
I do feel that most of us would chose Pro option should we knew its around corner as most of us are not hobbits here and we strive for pro features as if you don't need ND filters or quality pro pre amps etc.
However,it is not realistic for BM to replace 1000s camera Worldwide just because we decided to like heaps new
updated UMPro.
At the same time guys on this forum dedicated lots of time in providing feedback and test these cameras in real use scenarios, and as such the most of us from this forum have patiently waited for ideal BM raw camera to be available.
You can understand how most pros feel here that as if we were assumed to be amateurs and now this new camera is only for pros.

I believe current UM 4.6 mini owners should be offered some compromise like discount toward other BM gear as replacing cameras isn't practical we all know that.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:52 am

Taylor Cahill wrote:I have started a petition to see how many folks want to Upgrade from the Mini to Pro. I sure could use those features!
https://www.change.org/p/blackmagic-...ni-pro-upgrade

As early adopters with the Ursa Mini 4.6K many of us suffered from various issues. Such as severe image quality issues ie: crosshatching, due to improper sensor calibration which also made it unsueable at ISO 1600 due to noise.

I feel as though it would be the right thing to do for Black Magic Design to offer early customers of the Ursa Mini an upgrade option.

My camera was unusable for any serious production for the first six months of ownership due to the bad image calibration!


Just signed! Thanks for starting this!
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Donnell Henry

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 10:59 am

Denny Smith wrote:No, Zeiss CPs are not going to transfer any data to the camera. The compatible cameras must have data contacts in the mount. Only a few new PL lenses, like the Cooke's have them, and a few of the new Cine Zooms will transfer data via the mount.


Thanks Denny
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 2:49 pm

Donnell Henry wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:No, Zeiss CPs are not going to transfer any data to the camera. The compatible cameras must have data contacts in the mount. Only a few new PL lenses, like the Cooke's have them, and a few of the new Cine Zooms will transfer data via the mount.


Thanks Denny

Donnell you can find out information about /i Technology here: http://www.cookeoptics.com/i/itech.html

ARRI/Zeiss has their own technology called LDS, and I think the connectors may be different, but I'm not 100% on how different. ARRI is able to read both /i and LDS on their ALEXA cameras, so I would assume the information connectors are really close. We won't know if the URSA Mini Pro can read ARRI/Zeiss LDS lenses as well as Cooke /i lenses, but will probably know as soon as people start giving feed back on the forums.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 2:52 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Guys, I feel the Ursa Mini and the UM Pro are really different models in a similar case with the same sensor. After that, they differ in many ways.

The UM is aimed primarily at Cine style shooting, in controlled situations, either on sticks or handheld. The UM 4.6 has two options, based on lens mount, EF and PL. The PL model did add a B4 mount in an attempt to cover some ENG like shooting situations, but fell short due to the cinematography set up with shooting options based on a menu system, abiet, a well layed out menu system, but it requires the 5-inch monitor to access, and select options with.

The UM Pro has one model, with interchangeable lens mounts. Many of the menu only functions that are needed quickly in ENG/Documentary shooting is available on the outside of the camera with physical switches, selector knob and a small mpB&W monitor for set up selections, including a actual power switch on the outside, so the color monitor can be left folded in. A nice option here would be to be able to rotate this monitor the other way round (like the AF100 did) to access the color monitor when the camera is in a gimbal rig. This is where the big differences lie, in the way the two cameras are designed to be used, the Mini on sticks, and the Pro more of a shoulder mount rig, that also is at home in sticks.

These additional controls are a make or break feature when shooting quick moving Documentary type situations. The two models complement each other nicely, and offer the user a choice as to which features are important to the type of shooting they do. :mrgreen:
Cheers

Thank you Denny for putting it this way. I simply don't understand the anger people are expressing. Both are great cameras. For Cinema shooting, which is the style of shooting I prefer, I would still be fine using my URSA Mini 4.6K. However, the interchangeable lens mount is the key thing that I would say makes the URSA Mini Pro perfect for Cine style shooting because you can use EF for lower end projects and PL for higher end.

In a year if there's a solid sensor upgrade that Blackmagic implements then I think that it will be in the URSA Mini Pro body because I think that will become the de facto body design. They may have some additional updates to the body (such as wi-fi, GPS, gyroscope, etc.) that will take the body to a new level, but I'm sure they will keep to the core concepts they've introduced in the Pro. What sensor am I talking about? I don't know. Blackmagic has a great sensor with the 4.6K, but they could go for more dynamic range in a global shutter type of sensor at 4.6K, or they could go for higher resolution. I'm simply saying that this body design of the Pro seems to me like the most universal body we could hope for from Blackmagic.

The true downside to the URSA Mini 4.6K now is that it doesn't have an interchangeable lens mount like the Pro for cinema style shooting. Although, I've now been sold on the internal ND because I realized you could get away with owning 1 ND 0.3 to add single stop increments to the internal ND and then use a polarizer or soft filter in addition. That's cost saving. I also really like the external power switch for gimbals and such, so that helps cinema style shooting a ton.

Overall, I've become very sold on the Pro updates. Yet, I'm not at all vehemently angry like some people seem to be. I'm happy I have a camera that shoots the same quality. The difference is really operational advantages. In the meantime, I still have a great camera with my UM4.6K.

As I've written many times: the picture quality is the same. In the end the picture is what matters most.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:03 pm

timbutt2 wrote:
Donnell Henry wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:No, Zeiss CPs are not going to transfer any data to the camera. The compatible cameras must have data contacts in the mount. Only a few new PL lenses, like the Cooke's have them, and a few of the new Cine Zooms will transfer data via the mount.


Thanks Denny

Donnell you can find out information about /i Technology here: http://www.cookeoptics.com/i/itech.html

ARRI/Zeiss has their own technology called LDS, and I think the connectors may be different, but I'm not 100% on how different. ARRI is able to read both /i and LDS on their ALEXA cameras, so I would assume the information connectors are really close. We won't know if the URSA Mini Pro can read ARRI/Zeiss LDS lenses as well as Cooke /i lenses, but will probably know as soon as people start giving feed back on the forums.


Thanks for the link Tim..
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 3:04 pm

timbutt2 wrote:
Denny Smith wrote:Guys, I feel the Ursa Mini and the UM Pro are really different models in a similar case with the same sensor. After that, they differ in many ways.

The UM is aimed primarily at Cine style shooting, in controlled situations, either on sticks or handheld. The UM 4.6 has two options, based on lens mount, EF and PL. The PL model did add a B4 mount in an attempt to cover some ENG like shooting situations, but fell short due to the cinematography set up with shooting options based on a menu system, abiet, a well layed out menu system, but it requires the 5-inch monitor to access, and select options with.

The UM Pro has one model, with interchangeable lens mounts. Many of the menu only functions that are needed quickly in ENG/Documentary shooting is available on the outside of the camera with physical switches, selector knob and a small mpB&W monitor for set up selections, including a actual power switch on the outside, so the color monitor can be left folded in. A nice option here would be to be able to rotate this monitor the other way round (like the AF100 did) to access the color monitor when the camera is in a gimbal rig. This is where the big differences lie, in the way the two cameras are designed to be used, the Mini on sticks, and the Pro more of a shoulder mount rig, that also is at home in sticks.

These additional controls are a make or break feature when shooting quick moving Documentary type situations. The two models complement each other nicely, and offer the user a choice as to which features are important to the type of shooting they do. :mrgreen:
Cheers

Thank you Denny for putting it this way. I simply don't understand the anger people are expressing. Both are great cameras. For Cinema shooting, which is the style of shooting I prefer, I would still be fine using my URSA Mini 4.6K. However, the interchangeable lens mount is the key thing that I would say makes the URSA Mini Pro perfect for Cine style shooting because you can use EF for lower end projects and PL for higher end.

In a year if there's a solid sensor upgrade that Blackmagic implements then I think that it will be in the URSA Mini Pro body because I think that will become the de facto body design. They may have some additional updates to the body (such as wi-fi, GPS, gyroscope, etc.) that will take the body to a new level, but I'm sure they will keep to the core concepts they've introduced in the Pro. What sensor am I talking about? I don't know. Blackmagic has a great sensor with the 4.6K, but they could go for more dynamic range in a global shutter type of sensor at 4.6K, or they could go for higher resolution. I'm simply saying that this body design of the Pro seems to me like the most universal body we could hope for from Blackmagic.

The true downside to the URSA Mini 4.6K now is that it doesn't have an interchangeable lens mount like the Pro for cinema style shooting. Although, I've now been sold on the internal ND because I realized you could get away with owning 1 ND 0.3 to add single stop increments to the internal ND and then use a polarizer or soft filter in addition. That's cost saving. I also really like the external power switch for gimbals and such, so that helps cinema style shooting a ton.

Overall, I've become very sold on the Pro updates. Yet, I'm not at all vehemently angry like some people seem to be. I'm happy I have a camera that shoots the same quality. The difference is really operational advantages. In the meantime, I still have a great camera with my UM4.6K.

As I've written many times: the picture quality is the same. In the end the picture is what matters most.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:04 pm

The addition of ND filters is a very nice feature, but the demotion of the 5" screen to 4" is a bummer. I would rather keep the UM46K with the 5" screen than have internal ND's. Especially after investing in some good IRNDs.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:07 pm

I invested in a camera that wasn't quite what I wanted but at the time the nearest to what I wanted. One month later with no heads up there is the camera I wanted... and as for the anger, if I put my one month old camera on the market how much is it now worth? Is there even a market for it?
Last edited by Stephen Press on Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:22 pm

Aaron Green wrote:The addition of ND filters is a very nice feature, but the demotion of the 5" screen to 4" is a bummer. I would rather keep the UM46K with the 5" screen than have internal ND's. Especially after investing in some good IRNDs.


That's a major factor for me as well having just purchased the full set of NiSi Nano IRNDs. (Review coming perhaps today.)


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 5:40 pm

Timbutt2, your comments about the usefulness of interchangeable mounts on the Mini Pro apply more to the current Mini 4.6K EF camera than the Mini 4.6K PL camera where you could argue the PL is the more professional mount and the optional B4 mount can be used when documentary run and gun or budget used B4 lenses are justified. The Mini 4.6K PL/B4 camera is almost designed as a bridge between the limited utility of the Mini 4.6K EF camera and the new Mini Pro 4.6K camera with interchangeable mounts.

Although there are many great EF lenses, many people moving from stills photography to Cinematography are not likely going to be satisfied with their old EF lenses, particularly their zooms, so the Mini 4.6K PL/B4 camera may have some appeal. At least I'm glad I went with the Mini 4.6K PL/B4 when I did. The Mini 4.6K Pro definitely is a better design operationally and likely internally (such as the improved audio), and may have been "the camera I wanted" if it was announced at NAB 2016, but it's not the camera I want today after using the Mini 4.6K PL/B4 for 11 months.

Very happy with the new UMP46K camera and hoping it sells very well. Great value again from BMD. Great value is true of every camera they've made!


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 6:15 pm

Tim and Rick, I agree with you both. Perhaps BM is planing a new UM46 with the new interchangeable lens mount design, if they get enough if a good response on it. So you would still have a Cinema UM46 with the new interchangeable lens mount system sold with either EF or a PL mount (you get a choice) and have the option of adding the other mounts later. This camera otherwise maymor may not have the internal NDs, and would otherwise be the same as the current camera with the menu system and 5-inch monitor.

The initial release of the Pro is onlymsith the EF mount, and you have to buy the other mounts, even if yiumdo not want the EF mount. Perhaps big dealers will be able to offer the camera with a choice of the preferred lens mount.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 7:39 pm

Rick and Denny, I hear what both of you are saying. My brain juices are going like crazy thinking about the update. Right now however I'm looking more at the Resolve Panels that were introduced. I may be clearing up some room on my credit cards for one of those first and foremost.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostMon Mar 06, 2017 8:28 pm

Including the current UM4.6 owners in on the offer to the URSA owners would definitely be something I'd be interested in. I'm not completely clear on why it's available to the URSA owners only to begin with... though the 4.6ers I can somewhat understand.

As one of the many people that waited and waited and waited (nearly 10 months) for my pre-ordered UM4.6 to arrive... then only to receive a camera riddled with issues, which BMD eventually replaced, I'd certainly appreciate it. I'd jump on the deal tomorrow if they allowed. It would be great to replace my trusty ol' BMCC with a camera that better matches my UM4.6 for those times when I need to shoot 2 camera. But unfortunately, without the offer, it's beyond my budget.

While the new camera has some features that cater toward ENG and production, overall, I feel like BMD essentially took all of the feedback/input they've received and made the original 4.6 the camera that it should have been in the first place. The ND, switchable mounts, SD cards and even most of the added controls are features that every owner will likely appreciate at some time. The smaller screen is the only real downside that I see. Kudos to them for listening to their customers... and hopefully all of the past technical issues are worked out.

Here's to hoping that the UM owners see some upgrade love. Can't stop drinking the Koolaid. 8-)
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Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 5:59 am

timbutt2 wrote:Rick and Denny, I hear what both of you are saying. My brain juices are going like crazy thinking about the update. Right now however I'm looking more at the Resolve Panels that were introduced. I may be clearing up some room on my credit cards for one of those first and foremost.


I do have a technique that works in some parts of working with the GUI via a touchpad to help get a fine adjustment. When you are close to where you want as you drag your finger across a touchpad, to get a fine movement, as your finger presses on the touchpad, just slightly change the pressure point by 'rotating' your finger to the heft or right, as if you were rolling your finger ever so slightly.

But after I wear my finger out, I'd love to hear what you think of both panels. I'm leaning to the $995, but I'm not sure if the $2,995 panel is really the necessary starting point for effective use. I thought with the $995 panel my eyes would be looking at the screen and that would be better.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 9:50 am

Rick,

same feeling here, I like portability of micro, it ll go with MBP handy for live preview grade and resolve, less accessories the better.
It d be good to put a hands on one and get the feel for it.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 12:52 pm

Aaron Green wrote:The addition of ND filters is a very nice feature, but the demotion of the 5" screen to 4" is a bummer.


Yeah I have to say, I feel the same. I love that damn screen on the UM4.6 and often operate and pull focus from it.

JB
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Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 5:07 pm

Darko Djerich wrote:Rick,

same feeling here, I like portability of micro, it ll go with MBP handy for live preview grade and resolve, less accessories the better.
It d be good to put a hands on one and get the feel for it.


Darko, I do have one concern about the possibly inferior ergonomics with the $995 panel and that is the high chin on the device. With the $2,995 model, the front extends so there's room to support the wrist I think. With the $995 model I might need to stuff something in front as a rest. I have a low but very wide pull out keyboard tray on my computer desk, so that part is good for the $995 model whereas the $2,995 model won't fit there.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 5:42 pm

You can't win em all guys.. Let's not forget that content is king. What if you get the 4.6k Pro upgrade granted and they release an Ursa Mini 6k?! Will there be another petition? It will never stop.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 7:05 pm

rick.lang wrote:
timbutt2 wrote:Rick and Denny, I hear what both of you are saying. My brain juices are going like crazy thinking about the update. Right now however I'm looking more at the Resolve Panels that were introduced. I may be clearing up some room on my credit cards for one of those first and foremost.


I do have a technique that works in some parts of working with the GUI via a touchpad to help get a fine adjustment. When you are close to where you want as you drag your finger across a touchpad, to get a fine movement, as your finger presses on the touchpad, just slightly change the pressure point by 'rotating' your finger to the heft or right, as if you were rolling your finger ever so slightly.

But after I wear my finger out, I'd love to hear what you think of both panels. I'm leaning to the $995, but I'm not sure if the $2,995 panel is really the necessary starting point for effective use. I thought with the $995 panel my eyes would be looking at the screen and that would be better.

Yes, Rick, I'll be looking at the Micro first because it is more affordable. However, the Mini Panel seems like the perfect option because it adds a few more controls to make working with Resolve a pleasure. I'll weigh my decisions. Just found a $250 membership that I need to renew coming up. And, I need that membership for networking. So, life as always throws those wrenches into dream plans. But if I get a panel I'll let you know what I think. I'm sure it will make me feel in heaven when grading.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 7:28 pm

Tell me about it. The coffee maker broke yesterday. In a house ruled by three Colombian women, we have a crisis! A want a simple percolator this time, but the women will get there drip coffee with all the bells and whistles.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 9:48 pm

Sorry to hear about your coffee chrisis! How about an enameled covered "Cowboy" chuck wagon pot on top the Stove? I have an extra I could send your way. That way, you can make them some "real" (as in strong) camp coffee. PS, you can add egg shells to,the pot to keep,the grounds in the bottom once its brewed!
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 10:49 pm

rick.lang wrote:Tell me about it. The coffee maker broke yesterday. In a house ruled by three Colombian women, we have a crisis! A want a simple percolator this time, but the women will get there drip coffee with all the bells and whistles.


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Yup, I'm glad I don't have a coffee obsession. I know people who are obsessed (addicted) to the stuff. I've worked with some people who spend a lot of money on the right kind of coffee bean. Yet, I'm a hot chocolate guy, and I special order a brand of dark chocolate mix.
"Movies are not watched. They are an encounter with a life's experience not your own." - Tim Buttner (timbutt2)

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 07, 2017 11:05 pm

The first thing I did when I got to Texas was to buy an espresso machine.

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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 12:32 am

Thanks, Denny, but I can get something here.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 2:42 am

Rick, I know, you got the great old time hardware store Trading Company to go to. They have them in stock.
My sending you a 19th Cent. Coffee pot was kind of a :lol:
Cheers.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 8:38 am

How to get a discount URSА MINI PRO when I have URSA 4.0?
http://www.specmedia.by
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 1:49 pm

Taylor Cahill wrote:I have started a petition to see how many folks want to Upgrade from the Mini to Pro. I sure could use those features!
https://www.change.org/p/blackmagic-...ni-pro-upgrade

As early adopters with the Ursa Mini 4.6K many of us suffered from various issues. Such as severe image quality issues ie: crosshatching, due to improper sensor calibration which also made it unsueable at ISO 1600 due to noise.

I feel as though it would be the right thing to do for Black Magic Design to offer early customers of the Ursa Mini an upgrade option.

My camera was unusable for any serious production for the first six months of ownership due to the bad image calibration!

As someone who did not buy the Ursa mini, I disagree with this petition. If the petition were to succeed, it would be at the expence of other blackmagic customers, because in the end that cost needs to fall somewhere.
The mini was not an exceptionally bad camera by blackmagic standards and I think most owners would have been satisfied with it before the mini pro was announced.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 2:26 pm

rick.lang wrote:Tell me about it. The coffee maker broke yesterday. In a house ruled by three Colombian women, we have a crisis! A want a simple percolator this time, but the women will get there drip coffee with all the bells and whistles.


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Hi Rick

Have you tried the Aeropress?



https://www.amazon.com/Aeropress-Coffee ... +aeropress

The great thing about it is that it caters to the individual tastes.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 4:14 pm

I see the pain that the UMP has created in this thread. But I think BM is trying to do things differently. Time will tell but I think we are seeing a company trying to announce a camera when its ready and actually available in a few weeks. If BM can get there, I think it will be a major milestone for them as a company. They will call the shot and sink the ball as called. Yes, it will trouble people who just bought the last model who would have waited had they known, but it will allow people to make plans regarding new cameras because they can expect to have them when BM says they will.

Because frankly, the way BM is doing it now, I just flat out do not believe much of anything they say until I can actually buy it. And that is no way to handle your customers.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 4:45 pm

Dmitry Sergeev wrote:How to get a discount URSА MINI PRO when I have URSA 4.0?


Dmitry, you need to contact the dealer you bought the Ursa from, and they will process your discount order. If you bought it second hand, no discount -- which is what the issue being here is.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 8:20 pm

Leon, the pressed coffee is a nice option for one or two 'real' cups. I need to serve up three coffee mugs each morning. But there are larger French Press styles.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 08, 2017 10:37 pm

Denny Smith wrote:
Dmitry Sergeev wrote:How to get a discount URSА MINI PRO when I have URSA 4.0?


Dmitry, you need to contact the dealer you bought the Ursa from, and they will process your discount order. If you bought it second hand, no discount -- which is what the issue being here is.
Cheers


Upgrade - do I have to return the old camera in exchange or not?
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 1:05 am

No return. You keep the URSA 4K.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 2:29 am

Yes, you get the discounted price for the UM Pro and you get to keep your Ursa 4K camera. Kind of like, "having your cake and eating it too!"
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 2:29 am

So will BM put a notice on their front page when they are ready to "upgrade" cameras?
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 5:31 am

Gene, not sure, but since the sales are all handled by authorized dealers, I think you'll see them advertising camera (upgrades) "in stock."


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostThu Mar 09, 2017 8:36 pm

Leon, my better half has an associate at work with that Aeropress and says it's a very good solution for making your own coffee at your workplace.


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostSun Mar 12, 2017 6:00 pm

+1 would really love Blackmagic to give us early adopters and loyal ursa mini 4.6 owners a nod. The ND and usage of SD cards is something that I've been wanting to see in this camera since I purchased it over a year ago, and having those features in the pro is something that seems like an upgrade, rather than a new iteration of this camera. Having worked with the ursa mini 4.6 through its problems, firmware upgrades, and entire journey to now, I would really love to see Blackmagic as a company do the right thing and address some of us who are current ursa mini 4.6 owners. I am a doc/ENG-style shooter seriously considering hopping off the ursa mini wagon, as a good variable ND, cards, audio issues - those are all key to my work, and very expensive to keep up with.
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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 1:47 pm

What has gotten me the most about this Mini 4.6K Pro release is how quickly it comes on the heels of the Mini 4.6K finally getting out a year late. I wanted the Mini 4.6K to have an ND wheel, more ext. function bottons and yes, I questioned why if they could make a PL mount for the Ursa, why couldn't they do EF, PL and B4 swappable mounts for the Mini ...... it didn't seem like rocket science to me. I shrugged and accepted it the way it was because it seemd like it was all in the too hard basket for BMD.

The short time between the Mini 4.6K finally getting to market and this Pro release makes me very suspicious of BMD. These improvements/changes didn't just magically happen a couple of months ago, I suspect BMD were already well into the design and implementation when the Mini 4.6K was finally rolled out.

In my experience camera models usually go like this: the initial Cam-X mark 1 is presented to the public, a year or 18 months later, the mark 2 is released with significant improvements gleaned from customer feedback, then in another year or 18 months the mark 3 is pumped out when sales are flagging because the market has finally been saturated with mark 1's and 2's.

I think BMD knew this was happening and should have then said to everyone "Hey guys we're also developing and hope to soon release a Mini 4.6K ENG style camera with all the bells and whistles news/doco shooters had always said they wanted, so if this is more to your needs then don't buy the mark 1 version, wait for the mark 2". If BMD had said that, I would have waited!

BMD should come clean on the timeline of this model upgrade as as it goes to the very heart of trusting BMD about anything they say and do in the future. IMHO
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Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostTue Mar 14, 2017 4:22 pm

The history of the built-in ND filters is short but interesting in hindsight. The writing was on the wall if you knew how to read the tea leaves. At one of their dog-and-pony shows (the Los Angeles show I believe), Tim Siddon was interviewed about the lack of built-in ND filters in the URSA Mini 4.6K cameras and he responded with words to the effect that we haven't done built-in filters, then a very slight pause and he added "yet." Read into that comment what you will, but I did think at that time he was admitting they could be coming in the future. But, it was vague enough that no one was going to hold off buying the URSA Mini with the fabulous 4.6K sensor. It was not like he said, "We are working on it and should have it ready for next year."

The fact is BMD rarely makes a casual comment about new cameras and new features before they are ready to be announced or released formally. And honestly, would you do that if you ran marketing? If you did, you would sell half the volume or less, and may not stay in the highly competitive camera business. I don't think we should feel that BMD's future plans had to be revealed to us the way Intel plans their processor architecture roadmap with a three year horizon. What good does that roadmap do for Intel now that they've been unable to stick to it the way they did years ago?


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Re: Ursa Mini 4.6K to Pro Upgrade!?

PostWed Mar 15, 2017 6:47 am

Norbert von der Heidt wrote:I think BMD knew this was happening and should have then said to everyone "Hey guys we're also developing and hope to soon release a Mini 4.6K ENG style camera with all the bells and whistles news/doco shooters had always said they wanted, so if this is more to your needs then don't buy the mark 1 version, wait for the mark 2". If BMD had said that, I would have waited!

BMD should come clean on the timeline of this model upgrade as as it goes to the very heart of trusting BMD about anything they say and do in the future. IMHO


They have totally lost my trust. Doesn't mean I wont do business with them but I'll think very had about it, look more closely for alternatives and not unreservedly recommend them to others is the industry.
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