Thunderbolt to RAW

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Troy Murray

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Thunderbolt to RAW

PostMon Mar 11, 2013 9:45 pm

Hey guys, just picked up my new BMCC and have really been impressed with it. Got a bad ass rig on the way, can't wait to show pictures. I'm curious, has anyone heard of them allowing the thunderbolt to record in raw so no more internal SSD, I'm using a wireless terabyte seagate to my BMCC and really want to be able to record in RAW to it. I like this option a lot more because it also allows me stream the feed to anyone with a smartphone or tablet and being a indie film maker I no longer need video village or a bunch of other wires and montiors around giving me a lot more flexibility.

Troy Murray
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Daniel Knoche

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 3:52 am

Troy,

Similar post viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5851

You would need something in between the camera and the hard drive (computer). Biggest concern would be the hard drive being able to handle it (not sure specs of yours but if it is spinning disk, highly unlikely)
Daniel
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Chris Pearse

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 5:01 am

Hi Troy,

Indeed to record to an external disk, you would need a computer in between the camera and disk. Both camera and disk need a host computer to work over ThunderBolt.

The ThunderBolt connection too only transmits an uncompressed stream of video. The only way to record Raw is using the internal SSD.
Chris Pearse
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Troy Murray

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 6:06 am

Thanks guys, I checkout the other thread, I understand what you are saying. It seems to me, and I could be wrong on this, but wouldn't needing a third party computer be more of a firm ware issue. It's seems to me that you could rewrite the program to allow it to go directly into an external drive.

Troy
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Chris Pearse

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 6:20 am

Not being a hardware or software developer myself, I can't really say how difficult this would actually be. But my impression is that it would not be a trivial matter to include this kind of thing. Perhaps requiring some very large changes either in soft/firm/hardware. Its certainly an interesting idea, and definitely not the first time it's been suggested.
Chris Pearse
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Troy Murray

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 6:26 am

Thanks, Chris, you says it's your impression, is that from some other reading you have done. I would love to see that. I've been known to dabble is soft/firm/hardware manipulation, if you have any information out there that I could read where you are getting this impression, it would be very helpful.

I believe that the thunderbolt connection only transmits in uncompressed because that's what they programmed in, it should be more than capable to handle RAW footage.
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Chris Pearse

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 7:41 am

Certainly ThunderBolt has the bandwidth for Raw, but I can't say for sure if the hardware could spit this out. I'll log this as a feature request too.

This is purely speculation from what I've observed in peripherals in general, since I've never delved into the ThunderBolt spec. So far ThunderBolt devices have either been hosts (computers) or peripherals. I've not heard of any peripherals that could talk to each other without a host. TB is based on PCIe, so I think we're working with much the same limitations. Once you're past this I think there may be some other hurdles such as how we could support RAID arrays and such.

That said, I could be wrong. Both ideas are really great, but perhaps the product manager could give a better idea of the possibilities.
Chris Pearse
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Daniel Knoche

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 10:00 pm

My understanding of thunderbolt is as Chris stated, needs a host machine, can't connect between devices without one
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Troy Murray

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostTue Mar 12, 2013 11:34 pm

Ahhh, right I see, you could make the black magic a host though, sure it would be a firm ware thing, but WOW would it make a huge difference. I modified the Seagate wifi plus I got and put a SSD in it. You said you are going to log it as a feature request, is there a place I can do this also, I'm looking to register it with Black Magic but I can't find where to do it anywhere.
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Chris Pearse

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostWed Mar 13, 2013 12:58 am

We don't have a formal way for customers to log a feature request. Sometimes you may see a feature request thread pop up the forum if enough people want one, such as for the Cinema Camera, and I know we're keeping an eye on that. But the best way to request a feature would be through technical support, you can either call them or send a support request through the support pages on the website. They can then send it on to the relevant product manager.
Chris Pearse
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Blackmagic Design Japan
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sean mclennan

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostWed Mar 13, 2013 3:30 pm

To your first post....while Thunderbolt has the bandwidth to support RAW, I am not aware of any 802-based wireless setup that is. You would definitely drop frames trying to write directly to your wireless RAID. Plus you mention streaming to smartphones/tablets on the fly? That would require live rendering to a compressed format these devices could even display, also quite doubtful.

Might be possible with ProRes...but I can't see it being possible with RAW, due to the rendering requirement.

Does the HDMI out on the BMCC still operate when the Thunderbolt port is being used? I would think so...You could use a broadcast box on the HDMI out for sending a live stream to smartphones/tablets & receiver for inline recording to your wifi storage. You could simply record to SSD or over thunderbolt your RAW footage and then use the HDMI output for backup storage to your wifi drive and for broadcasting.
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Frank Glencairn

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostWed Mar 13, 2013 7:29 pm

There is no HDMI out.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

Set your zebras to 100%, ETTR and you're golden - and NO, you can't use TB as output for an external monitor, and you can't download the footy via TB ether.
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bhook

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostWed Mar 13, 2013 7:34 pm

:lol:
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sean mclennan

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostWed Mar 13, 2013 9:15 pm

LOL...of course haha

Not my first brain fart today... :oops:
Last edited by sean mclennan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sean mclennan

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostWed Mar 13, 2013 9:16 pm

But you could do the same thing using the SDI output...
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Troy Murray

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostFri Mar 15, 2013 7:43 am

That's a good point, you could use a digital transmitter, and an app. HMMM...gonna look in to that.
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Troy Murray

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostFri Mar 15, 2013 7:45 am

the wireless set up is the Seagate wireless plus. The box holds a wifi creator and you tap into from an app on your phone. It's used for people who want a ton of space on their dslr's if they are out on a crazy shoot in Africa or in the mountains for a long time.
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lucariccidj

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 4:07 am

Guys question: have you tired capturing ProResHQ via thunderbolt and media express on BMCC?Is it the same as if on SSD internal?

While waiting for my thunderbolt docking to arrive (so I can format /read SSD ) i was playing with it as manual suggest connecting thunderbolt cable to macbookpro ->media express
25 fps 1080 ProResHQ
the files i get from live capture are really muddy very similar to 7/5d dslr ....but 220mbp/s
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adamroberts

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 6:07 am

What do you mean by muddy?

You have 2 options. Film mode which is a flat LOG style image that needs grading or Video mode which has a REC.709 LUT applied to the footage.

In both cases it should be the dames as recording to the internal SSD in ProRes.
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lucariccidj

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 8:09 am

Thx for reply , I mean not so sharp and very close as the look we have from dslr soft etc etc
I have downloaded some ProResHQ from the forum here and is def looking better even I'd just flat and washed out

Also if I have zebras on it will appear on the live view recorded
Will be able to tell more as I receive the docking
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Aaron Scheiner

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Re: Thunderbolt to RAW

PostMon Jul 15, 2013 8:55 am

I've been known to dabble is soft/firm/hardware manipulation

...lol - that explains your knowledge of WiFi and PCI-Express/Thunderbolt.

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