Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Sep 01, 2017 8:19 pm

rick.lang wrote:It is odd there are no preorders since the price has been announced.


Yeah, I was thinking the same.
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WonSeokChoi

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostMon Sep 04, 2017 7:21 am

Also just to be clear, this is a mechanical F-mount, so there is no advantage over a novoflex/kipon adapter when using a G-Mount?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Sep 05, 2017 5:10 am

Yes, but it is a very well made and elegant F Mount.
DS
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Tim Schumann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Sep 05, 2017 2:00 pm

WonSeokChoi wrote:Also just to be clear, this is a mechanical F-mount, so there is no advantage over a novoflex/kipon adapter when using a G-Mount?
There are a couple of notable advantages...

It is an entire mount replacement so rather than being a flimsy adapter it is solid. Adapters can be quite flimsy and with larger zooms like a 80-200 or 70-200 you can end up with a fair amount of weight that needs to be supported. I know people who have used adapters and smashed their precious Nikon lenses because the adapter could not support the weight.

Iris control on our URSA Mini Pro F Mount has been extended to a smooth 60º throw, so rather than having a tiny adjustment that goes all the way from wide open to stopped down in a very short distance, on our F Mount you have a nice long smooth precise iris adjustment so you could potentially do gradual iris adjustment during shot without seeing an abrupt obvious change in exposure.
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Stephen Hunter

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Sep 05, 2017 3:34 pm

Tim Schumann wrote:
WonSeokChoi wrote:Also just to be clear, this is a mechanical F-mount, so there is no advantage over a novoflex/kipon adapter when using a G-Mount?
There are a couple of notable advantages...

It is an entire mount replacement so rather than being a flimsy adapter it is solid. Adapters can be quite flimsy and with larger zooms like a 80-200 or 70-200 you can end up with a fair amount of weight that needs to be supported. I know people who have used adapters and smashed their precious Nikon lenses because the adapter could not support the weight.

Iris control on our URSA Mini Pro F Mount has been extended to a smooth 60º throw, so rather than having a tiny adjustment that goes all the way from wide open to stopped down in a very short distance, on our F Mount you have a nice long smooth precise iris adjustment so you could potentially do gradual iris adjustment during shot without seeing an abrupt obvious change in exposure.



Any word on a release, Tim? Had heard late August..
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Tim Schumann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Sep 05, 2017 10:28 pm

They shipped from the factory last week in August so should be in stores already, or will be very soon.
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rick.lang

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Sep 05, 2017 11:33 pm

Nice I finally said something that was correct! I'm batting about .150 lately. Ready to retire.


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WonSeokChoi

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Sep 06, 2017 7:42 am

Tim Schumann wrote:They shipped from the factory last week in August so should be in stores already, or will be very soon.


Hi Tim, Thanks for your answer, however, it is so strange that I contacted two official resellers of BlackMagic in The Netherlands and they both individually said that they contacted BlackMagic but that they did not know a delivery date on the mount yet. How come there is a discrepancy in communication?
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thomas bruegger

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Sep 06, 2017 7:53 am

Tim Schumann wrote:It is an entire mount replacement so rather than being a flimsy adapter it is solid. Adapters can be quite flimsy and with larger zooms like a 80-200 or 70-200 you can end up with a fair amount of weight that needs to be supported. I know people who have used adapters and smashed their precious Nikon lenses because the adapter could not support the weight.


Aint nothing flimsy on the Novoflex Nikon to Canon Adapters, this is a rock solid connection. The only thing flimsy is the Canon Mount on the Ursa. The Camera Mounts should be lockable, or there should be a optional mount to buy with lockable mount.
Thomas Bruegger / garage5 GmbH
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Sep 06, 2017 4:18 pm

No, they are not, and also the Metabones Nikon adapters are well constructed. But bothnhave a shorter through for the Iris control cam. I have both adapters. But with the MiniPro, you do not need an add on adapter, which always adds another point of movement (Canon EF is a still camera lens mount to start with, so not very strong) and connection, when you can get a Nikon Lens mount to replace the Canon Mount, when you wnat to use Nikon mount lenses. Changing a lens mount is always stronger and more secure than any adapter, no matter how well made. :mrgreen:
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WonSeokChoi

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostThu Sep 07, 2017 7:08 am

True, I have both adapters as well and not really liking them. Especially with the Sigma for Nikon lenses they tend to be wobbly. However, there seems to be a great mystery about the release of the Nikon mount. And also no reaction on communications or whatsoever. But i'll be patient ...
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostThu Sep 07, 2017 5:39 pm

According to BM, The Nikon mount is currently in shipping from factory to distributors, so it should be available in the next 30-days I would think.
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Drew Schlichtmann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 4:20 am

Blackmagic has finally listed the Nikon mount under accessories for the Mini Pro! Soon my super heavy Milvus lenses won't need to be propped!
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Sep 12, 2017 8:32 pm

It's up on bh

Ordered mine! Post pictures when I get it
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Sep 13, 2017 2:17 am

Alejandro Gutierrez wrote:It's up on bh

Ordered mine! Post pictures when I get it


BH site says 2-4 weeks before they're available.
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Stephen Hunter

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 8:29 am

So here it is, ladies and gentlemen...

Been playing with it between work all week - some things of note:

1: A dial, not a lever (I thought it was going to be a lever, but this may be old news... welcome, though!)
2: The dial is smooth, but solid.
3: Obviously, not electronic, so the "IRIS" notification disappears on the LCD/EVF.
4: Pre-AIS lenses seem to work fine as there's no aperture notch-thing found on SLRs/DSLRs to control the aperture (weeeew)
5: Everything else seems to work as usual.

Will upload some more pics soon.

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...and the other way is wrong.
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WonSeokChoi

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 11:44 am

Great! Thanks for sharing. So there is no way you can read out your f-stop anywhere?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 4:34 pm

On a G type Nikon lens no (no electronic connection to give a read out) but the Iris ring shows it has a calibrated scale that could be used to work out Iris f/stop settings, using a AIS (non-G) lens with a f/stop ring.

Set the AiS lens to a given f/stop like f/3.5, then turn the lens mount Iris ring to where the Iris stops opening (image stops changing changing in monitor), look at the Iris ring scale on th lens mount, and note the mark it is on.

This will be close to f/3.5 on a G lens setting also. This is not absolute, but gives a ball park indication. I did this with my Metabones Nik Speed Booster and a G lens, worked ok.
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Drew Schlichtmann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 5:30 pm

Stephen Hunter wrote:So here it is, ladies and gentlemen...


Where did you order yours from? I can't find it anywhere in the US yet, except for B&H. And B&H says they aren't even stocking it, so much as drop shipping from BM, so no idea when it will actually ship.
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Sep 15, 2017 8:57 pm

Drew Schlichtmann wrote:
Stephen Hunter wrote:So here it is, ladies and gentlemen...


Where did you order yours from? I can't find it anywhere in the US yet, except for B&H. And B&H says they aren't even stocking it, so much as drop shipping from BM, so no idea when it will actually ship.


Yup... I ordered from B&H the other day. Hoping it shows up before their 2-4 week estimate. Haven't even found it listed anywhere else yet.
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rick.lang

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostMon Sep 18, 2017 5:51 pm

Stephen, I really like that scale on the ring with marks every 10th of a stop.


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Stephen Hunter

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostThu Sep 21, 2017 3:33 am

rick.lang wrote:Stephen, I really like that scale on the ring with marks every 10th of a stop.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yep! Comes in handy.
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Oct 06, 2017 6:09 pm

Has anyone that's ordered this (besides Stephen) received it yet? I'm just about to head into week 4 since I ordered with B&H and the site still says 2-4 week delivery. Though it also looks like B&H is on holiday for another week and a half.

Still not seeing it listed anywhere else (in the US) though, either.
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Drew Schlichtmann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 12:41 am

chris.white wrote:Has anyone that's ordered this (besides Stephen) received it yet?
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Hey Chris, I spoke with B&H last week about that, actually. Below is a copy of my chat with the B&H rep.

Luke M : Hello Drew Schlichtmann, my name is Luke M and I'm looking forward to helping you today!
Luke M : I am very sorry for the delay . The latest ETA we have from the manufacturer is for , 10/23/17 .
Me : That's when it will be in stock?
Luke M : Correct .
Me : Ah, I see. Is it so late due to the manufacturer not shipping them out, or has BH not ordered in. How does that work?
Luke M : It is back ordered on the manufacturer's end .
Me : Does that mean the've shipped a batch and ran out?
Me : Or could it be that they are just behind on production?
Luke M : They may have ran out .
Me : Ah, I see.
Luke M : Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Me : Nope, that should do it. Thanks

------

So, who knows. Blackmagic doesn't seem to be too keen on sharing information, though somebody must know something. I personally wouldn't even be upset if they said it was delayed another 2 months, if they mentioned why.
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Oct 07, 2017 2:54 am

Same as you chris. Still backordered. Can’t find it listed anywhere else either. Hopefully it ships next week. Ordered first day it popped up.
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostMon Oct 09, 2017 4:40 pm

It's listed as 'in stock' on Adorama. I placed an order there as well... let's see which ships first.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostMon Oct 09, 2017 5:41 pm

My experience has been Adorma get a new BM item in stock before B&H. Same was true for the Micro cameras and VA when it first was released.
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Oct 10, 2017 8:29 pm

I just chatted with an Adorama rep, and according to him, it would be drop shipped from the manufacturer. I assume BMD have a US-based distributor and it's not coming direct from Australia?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 4:14 am

Yes, yes they do. Very interesting Adorama is drop shipping.
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSun Oct 15, 2017 5:56 pm

FYI... The folks at BH just got back to me with a message saying that these are estimated to be at their warehouse on Oct. 23.
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 am

My BH order moved to ‘In stock, order sent to warehouse’!! Should be shipping out in the next few days!!
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Isaac Elliott

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Oct 18, 2017 4:40 am

Anyone know an adaptor Nikon to EF that stays on the camera during lense changes?


I have a Ursa Mini EF mount
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostWed Oct 18, 2017 3:42 pm

I just received notification from them that mine is shipping out today and I should have it Friday. 8-)
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Alejandro Gutierrez wrote:My BH order moved to ‘In stock, order sent to warehouse’!! Should be shipping out in the next few days!!
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Drew Schlichtmann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 9:22 pm

Received mine today (the 20th). Install went easy, but I'm getting a ton of play. Both lenses I've tried so far (Milvus 21mm and Milvus 85mm) have a ton of wiggle. And the wiggle is definitely between the lens and the mount, not between the mount and the camera. Haven't tested the focus yet, but it's a little concerning. I know it's not a PL mount, and I know they're heavy lenses, but I was hoping for less movement than the comparatively cheap adapter I've been using with a brace due to wiggle as well. Anybody else received one and tested it yet?
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostFri Oct 20, 2017 11:46 pm

The printed instructions differ from the updated ursa mini manual. Perhaps you did not add the 10mm shim? That step was omitted in the included printed manual.

Check page 154 of the October Blackmagic_Updated Ursa_Mini_Manual .pdf

Im installing mine right now. Ill let you know how it goes.
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 12:06 am

Mine definitely has some play, although not severe.

Ill test a dozen more lenses and get back to you.
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Drew Schlichtmann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 12:20 am

I think we may need some clarification from BM. The written directions I received in the box imply that both a .50mm shim and a .10mm shim are already in place under the old EF mount, and that they should remain there. They were not. The online directions do not mention any shims already in place, and indicate the need to add only the .10mm shim. You say that yours is a bit loose still, which shims do you have? Just the .10mm? If so, maybe it does need both?
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 12:26 am

i have the .50 and the .10.

I tested the:

35 1.4
70-200 VR
24 1.4

All have the same small play.

Usable, but there.


I dont know if the play is behind the mount however. I think its between the mount and the lens. Not sure if shimming will fix it.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 6:24 pm

No, adding shims will only shift your inf. focus off. Shims are on'y to get the lens mount to the correct FFD setting so the lens will focus correctly. The lens mount screws will take up any slack between the camera and the mount, be sure these are equally tightened with a torque driver.

If the mount is loose between the BM mount and the lens, then the new mount is off, and not as tight as it should be per Nikon mont specifications.
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Chris Gosling

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSat Oct 21, 2017 6:26 pm

I have some rotational play from the mount --> lens - not camera --> mount.

However it doesn''t appear to be greater than the play when they are mounted to my D800 or D810.

Chris
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSun Oct 22, 2017 12:34 am

OK, then it is the kens side, so you should be OK. Slight rotational play is normal with most still camera lenses, especially the newer Nikon G series. The Zeiss ZF lenses fit a little tighter.
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Alejandro Gutierrez

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSun Oct 22, 2017 5:17 am

Same amount of play on my zeiss 50 1.4 zf.2 and 35 f2 zf.2. In use have not found it to be an issue.
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSun Oct 22, 2017 1:30 pm

Installed mine yesterday. I only have very slight rotational play. Seems pretty solid to me. Definitely much less play than my old BMCC MFT had with a metabones speed booster (granted that was 2 mounts worth of potential play).

I have to say, I'm not entirely certain on the shim instruction... it just says "add .10 shim", it does not explicitly say, "add .10mm shim to .50 and .10 shims". The EF instruction does say this... "Remove the metal 0.10mm shim, if fitted, while retaining the metal 0.50mm and plastic 0.10mm shims."

I'd think for continuity of the instructions, the F-mount instruction would/should have said something like "if fitted, retain the metal 0.50mm and plastic 0.10mm shims and add .10mm shim." if those are necessary.

Perhaps we can get some confirmation from BMD on what is proper here?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSun Oct 22, 2017 5:45 pm

It appears some EF mounts in the Ursa Mini Pro needed shimming, perhaps the early ones, while others did not. It would be safe to assume, you just need to add .10mm shim when mounting the Nikon mount, regardless of any existing shims.

The shim is just correcting the difference between EF (44mm) and Nikon mounts, so adding the shim corrects the new Nikon F mount to the correct FFD (46.5). The kens mount itself corrects most of the FFD difference, leaving a small amount to fine tune with shims, which is more accurate than trying to make the mount correct the total 2.5mm difference.
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Drew Schlichtmann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostSun Oct 22, 2017 7:09 pm

Ok, I put up a quick video showing the play we've got. The lens in the video is a Zeiss Milvus 85mm. We've tried our Milvus 21mm and 50mm, as well as an old Nikon Series E 50mm lens. They all have the same amount of play. The movement is definitely between the mount and the lens. I want to believe I've done something wrong/stupid, but I can't figure out what. Anybody have any ideas?

https://vimeo.com/239351434/17b4de7925
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 5:32 am

Like I previously posted, the new BM Nikon mount is not meeting the Nikon specification, it appears to be a little off, allowing the play. My Zeiss ZF lenses fit my Metabones adapters, and a Nikon Camera with very little to no play, much less rotational play than the MFT mount standard.
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robert Hart

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 8:23 am

Denny.

I have not had eyes on the new BM Nikon F-Mount so my following comments should be challenged.

What method does BM use to preload the lens against the flange face of the receiving mount? A genuine Nikon F-Mount includes a corrugated ring-shaped spring installed behind the mount ring in a channel. Raised cam shapes in the ring spring bear rearwards against the lugs of the lens as the lugs are rotated over them, thus pulling the flange face of the lens against the flange face of the mount.

From bending pressure against the lens body or from outboard weight of long unsupported telephoto lenses, the corrugated spring may deform and allow the lens to droop or move. That pressure has to be fairly persuasive.

Some third-party makers of Nikon-style mounts eliminate the corrugated spring, cut fine slots in the inside of the mount and wedge those slots slightly wider open to make wedge-shaped cams to bear rearwards against the lugs of the lens as they are rotated over. With some worn lenses or lenses which have thinner lugs, there may remain clearance instead of interference between the lugs and the cam surfaces.

In the case of a corrugated ring arrangement which allows looseness, it may be possible to fit a very thin shim between the corrugated ring spring and the inner rear of the mount ring to close up a clearance fit by moving the corrugated ring slightly rearward. This however cannot work if there is a surface in the camera throat holding the corrugated ring tight and slightly flattened in the forwards direction.

In the case of a slotted arrangement, clearance may be taken up by using a fine jeweller's screwdriver and prising the slots slightly wider to rearwards. Care needs to be taken not to be too greedy because the cams may snap off. This design is an inferior arrangement but cheaper to make as one component, the corrugated spring is eliminated. In the case of the genuine Nikon F-Mount this spring's permitted range of deformation can accommodate misfitting lenses.

Images of the BM Nikon mount are too small to get an accurate impression. It appears that the corrugated spring method of pre-loading the lens has been used. If that spring behind the mount ring is very slightly loose in its space, then a shim adjustment of that spring rearwards may be possible.

If the spring is tight in that space, then it is likely that a front surface in the mount assembly is pressed against the raised cam shape in the ring and the cam shapes will not be moved furthur rearwards by a shim.

Deforming the cam shapes of a corrugated spring rearwards with a small screwdriver should NOT be attempted with the mount ring in place. The likely outcome is bending of the planar surface of the flange face or stripping the threads of the four screws which fasten the mount ring to the assembly.

Deforming the cam shapes of a corrugated ring spring removed from the mount assembly should NOT be attempted, except of course by lens and camera technicians who have appropriate equipment and skills.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostMon Oct 23, 2017 5:03 pm

Robert, I do not know either, haven not seen a mount up close yet. My comments are just based in previous Nikon F mounts I have used. Perhaps someone who has the new mount can comment on how BM has designed the mount to maintain the kens pressure. In any case, most schemes are designed for still photography, where a slight amount of play is acceptable.
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chris.white

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Oct 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Just tried a few more lenses... including my Nikkor 70-200/2.8. This lens, being rather long and heavy, shows quite a bit more play (definitely between lens and mount) than the smaller lenses. I'm not too surprised, given the size/weight and I'd probably use a lens support anyway. However, this same lens on my Nikon 7200 has virtually no play at all.
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Drew Schlichtmann

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Re: Nikon F Mount for URSA Mini Pro

PostTue Oct 24, 2017 8:33 pm

chris.white wrote:Just tried a few more lenses... including my Nikkor 70-200/2.8. This lens, being rather long and heavy, shows quite a bit more play than the smaller lenses. I'm not too surprised, given the size/weight and I'd probably use a lens support anyway. However, this same lens on my Nikon 7200 has virtually no play at all.
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I've emailed BM support, they are looking into it. I've got some pretty heavy lenses, but they are way more stable on my Metabones and BMMCC than the Ursa. Mine's looser than an unbraced cheap Fotodiox adapter. Not what I'd expect from an official BM mount. Or, at least not what I'd want to expect, but issues seem to keep popping up. I uploaded a super quick clip of the view on the screen when I wiggle the lens. The camera is not moving at all. Granted it's an 85mm lens, but still. How does that compare to yours?

https://vimeo.com/239688783/c5b7eb8ee0
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