Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

chris.white

  • Posts: 160
  • Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:34 pm

Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri May 12, 2017 2:48 pm

Thought there might be some interest from folks around here. I stumbled into it the other day and decided to back it (I am not affiliated in any way). Looks like it's pretty promising and is already officially funded. Still a chance to get in on it at a discounted price for another 7 days...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/20 ... r-for-your


---
Chris
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 7572
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri May 12, 2017 6:23 pm

The Illuminati are not pleased.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline

Anatoly Mashanov

  • Posts: 444
  • Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:36 am
  • Location: Russia

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri May 12, 2017 6:44 pm

Can the meter report CRI and TLCI?

Unfortunately, no.

CRI and TLCI are computed from the full spectrum of the light. The Illuminati meter uses three sensors to measure red, green, and blue light, just like a camera. Unfortunately, that's not enough data to compute the CRI or TLCI.

Unfortunately the color temperature and green shift can be corrected in postprocessing; bad CRI cannot. So I think the color meter that could not at least specifically measure the spectral difference between modern LED lights and black body radiation is worthless.
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 1809
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Atlanta Georgia

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri May 12, 2017 7:07 pm

chris.white wrote:Thought there might be some interest from folks around here. I stumbled into it the other day and decided to back it (I am not affiliated in any way). Looks like it's pretty promising and is already officially funded. Still a chance to get in on it at a discounted price for another 7 days...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/20 ... r-for-your


---
Chris


This looked good to me too. I'm a backer.

JB
John Brawley
Cinematographer
Atlanta
Georgia
Offline

Gene Kochanowsky

  • Posts: 789
  • Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:11 am
  • Location: Tallahassee, FL

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri May 12, 2017 11:45 pm

Anatoly Mashanov wrote:
Can the meter report CRI and TLCI?

Unfortunately, no.

CRI and TLCI are computed from the full spectrum of the light. The Illuminati meter uses three sensors to measure red, green, and blue light, just like a camera. Unfortunately, that's not enough data to compute the CRI or TLCI.

Unfortunately the color temperature and green shift can be corrected in postprocessing; bad CRI cannot. So I think the color meter that could not at least specifically measure the spectral difference between modern LED lights and black body radiation is worthless.


Originally I was curious, as to how you know they are not using a full spectrum sensor?
I see in the FAQ that they said they were not. It's too bad because I can think of a simple solution created using a digital sensor and a diffraction grating. And there are wide spectrum chip devices available in the market. I wonder why they are not using one of those?

https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/ham ... ectrometer

Offline

Note Suwanchote

  • Posts: 240
  • Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:51 pm

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostSat May 13, 2017 4:21 am

cool, thanks!
lightformfilm.com
vimeo.com/Suwanchote
Offline
User avatar

Robert Niessner

  • Posts: 1262
  • Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:51 am
  • Location: Graz, Austria

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostSat May 13, 2017 12:22 pm

Thanks Chris for the hint. I have backed them now for a 4x Kit (I think that would be very useful for Greenscreen work).
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
Graz / Austria
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Blackmagic Camera Blog (German):
http://laufbildkommission.wordpress.com

Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
http://tinyurl.com/pjf6a3m
Offline

chris.white

  • Posts: 160
  • Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostSun May 14, 2017 4:16 pm

Gene Kochanowsky wrote:I wonder why they are not using one of those?

https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/ham ... ectrometer


My guess is cost. I think the main objectives were to create something effective in both low cost (comparatively) and function in a small multi-use form factor.

The spectrometers alone you linked to appear to cost the same as what they're selling the illuminati for in the KS deal.
---
c
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 7572
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostSun May 14, 2017 5:21 pm

Maybe they'll tackle a full spectrum meter next. I'd love to have a full spectrum view which would be very useful evaluating the light in a scene from the perspective of the wavelengths. Also having CRI and TCLI could be just as useful as the traditional scopes in determining how to control the light finally hitting your camera sensor.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline

Keith Babineaux

  • Posts: 86
  • Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:56 pm
  • Location: Miami, FL

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostSun May 14, 2017 5:59 pm

For $200, you won't find another light meter that's capable of doing what this light meter does. This is excellent for a 1 man documentary filmmaker like myself. You won't find a bluetooth light meter anywhere. My Sekonic 758-Cine was $599 and I can't measure white balance and I have to stop every time the sun shifts to get another reading. My name is in the comments section so you know I'm a backer.
Keith Babineaux | Film Student | Full Sail University
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 7572
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostMon May 15, 2017 12:51 am

When I went to the funding page Thursday, there were no more preorders available for a single unit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline

Patrick Finnegan

  • Posts: 207
  • Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:43 pm
  • Location: Los Angeles, & Santa Fe, New Mexico

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostMon May 15, 2017 8:10 am

Here is an interesting alternative that is much more compact in design and also makes use of an iphone to operate.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lu ... the-future
Finnegan's Wake Films
Director/ Cameraman
Offline

John Brawley

  • Posts: 1809
  • Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:57 am
  • Location: Atlanta Georgia

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostMon May 15, 2017 9:46 am

Patrick Finnegan wrote:Here is an interesting alternative that is much more compact in design and also makes use of an iphone to operate.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lu ... the-future


Errr, they're about a year late on their delivery ? Mar 2016 for delivery, and the project was funded in 2015 ?

There's plenty of other options. There's a great app that uses the camera itself that I've found to be remarkably accurate.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/cine-me ... 18884?mt=8

I also own one of these. They ain't cheap.

http://www.sekonic.com/united-states/pr ... rview.aspx

This one in this thread though is for those that want a separate sensor. This one could stay in a fixed location while you walk the set. I think that's what you're paying for.

JB
John Brawley
Cinematographer
Atlanta
Georgia
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 1708
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostMon May 15, 2017 3:58 pm

rick.lang wrote:When I went to the funding page Thursday, there were no more preorders available for a single unit.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Check again -- I found a single unit option. I think the one that's sold out is an early bird deal that has a slightly better discount. They probably added the additional single unit option later on.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 7572
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostMon May 15, 2017 4:38 pm

Rakesh, you're right, my bad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 1708
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostMon May 15, 2017 4:41 pm

rick.lang wrote:Rakesh, you're right, my bad.


No worries. It happens, especially when there are 700 rewards available ;)
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 7572
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostMon May 15, 2017 4:48 pm

I use Cine Meter, but the one area that can still baffle me is... TINT. I want to know how to relate the tint values shown in Cine Meter to the tint setting on the URSA Mini 4.6K. This thread includes a response from Dwaine (BMD) that is discouraging at first glance. Anyone else know the relationship between CC values in Cine Meter and the tint values in the camera (and Resolve)? Hope this isn't a dumb question. NB: tint range is now -100 to +100 in Resolve 14beta manual.

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=63840



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Frank Glencairn

  • Posts: 1570
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:07 am
  • Location: Germany

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostTue May 16, 2017 7:34 am

Maybe a bit old school, but his works like a charm, and under 40 bucks

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Handhel ... .20.8TOtwG
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

Set your zebras to 100%, ETTR and you're golden - and NO, you can't use TB as output for an external monitor, and you can't download the footy via TB ether.
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 7572
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostTue May 16, 2017 4:01 pm

I'd find useful a solution which shows UV and IR wavelengths too. The Everfine SPIC-200 with one sensor used for both spectrometer and light meter costs about $1K and the SFIM-300 with two sensors, one dedicated to the spectrometer and one for the light meter and costs about $2K. The more expensive is more accurate and includes use at low hertz when testing flickering. Both are industrial meters but the SPIC-200 should be good for cinematography.

The SFIM-300 is used by SLR Magic.

Andrew Chan and I discussed the Cine Meter product that John Brawley suggested with the Luxi attachment for the iPhone. Andrew cautioned that incident meters that use the traditional half-globe (that gathers light from a very wide angle) may not give measurements as useful as a meter like the Everfine meters that use a flat surface for incident readings. That half-globe approach was invented many decades ago and used ever since, but it doesn't mean it's the best approach. Luxi uses a half-globe, but a better solution would be to mount a wide angle lens with a flat piece of white semi-opaque plastic in front of the lens.

SFIM-300
http://www.everfine.net/productinfo.php?pid=188&fid=10

SPIC-200
http://www.everfine.net/productinfo.php?pid=166&fid=10

Image



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline

Keith Babineaux

  • Posts: 86
  • Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:56 pm
  • Location: Miami, FL

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostTue May 16, 2017 6:31 pm

Patrick Finnegan wrote:Here is an interesting alternative that is much more compact in design and also makes use of an iphone to operate.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lu ... the-future


I was one of the first 100 backers a year ago. After a year of emails back and forth, I canceled my pre-order. They can't get it right. That means that it's a waste of money to purchase something that is supposed to come out a year ago. This bluetooth light meter looks way better.
Keith Babineaux | Film Student | Full Sail University
Offline

Lee Gauthier

  • Posts: 920
  • Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:51 pm

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostTue May 16, 2017 7:43 pm

Frank Glencairn wrote:Maybe a bit old school, but his works like a charm, and under 40 bucks

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Handhel ... .20.8TOtwG


Frank, how do you use a spectroscope to get color metering in Kelvin?
Offline
User avatar

Frank Glencairn

  • Posts: 1570
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:07 am
  • Location: Germany

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostWed May 17, 2017 7:45 am

You don't, you just see the spectrum of your light sources (and the gaps, when using LED or florescence bulbs)

Since I only shoot raw, I don't care too much about Kelvin - in the ballpark is good enough for me.
But I do care about bad light sources.
http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

Set your zebras to 100%, ETTR and you're golden - and NO, you can't use TB as output for an external monitor, and you can't download the footy via TB ether.
Offline
User avatar

Robert Niessner

  • Posts: 1262
  • Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:51 am
  • Location: Graz, Austria

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 1:17 pm

I'd like to post an update here:
The first Illuminati Wireless Light & Color Meters have been shipped, so I might get my batch of 4 maybe before christmas.
Looking forward to play with the meters and test them out.
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
Graz / Austria
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Blackmagic Camera Blog (German):
http://laufbildkommission.wordpress.com

Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
http://tinyurl.com/pjf6a3m
Offline

Ellory Yu

  • Posts: 483
  • Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 4:54 pm

rick.lang wrote:I use Cine Meter, but the one area that can still baffle me is... TINT. I want to know how to relate the tint values shown in Cine Meter to the tint setting on the URSA Mini 4.6K. This thread includes a response from Dwaine (BMD) that is discouraging at first glance. Anyone else know the relationship between CC values in Cine Meter and the tint values in the camera (and Resolve)? Hope this isn't a dumb question. NB: tint range is now -100 to +100 in Resolve 14beta manual.

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=63840



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not dumb at all Rick. i use Cine Meter and still want to know how they relate or use it too with the BMD cameras. So if anyone knows, please share.
Offline
User avatar

Jamie LeJeune

  • Posts: 740
  • Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:33 am
  • Location: San Francisco

Re: Interesting light/color meter on Kickstarter...

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 11:03 pm

Robert Niessner wrote:I'd like to post an update here:
The first Illuminati Wireless Light & Color Meters have been shipped, so I might get my batch of 4 maybe before christmas.
Looking forward to play with the meters and test them out.


Great! Looking forward to hearing what you think of them.
www.incafilms.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 15 guests