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URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:08 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

Yesterday I ordered a URSA Mini 4,6K for its good 4K picture quality.
But I have absolutely no knowledge about lenses. I never owned one. I am considering to buy a Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 STM Lens to play with, as my first lens.

Last week I saw a Tom Atkins Video where he recommended to buy a second hand zoom, also to pay with. Tom Atkins recommended to buy one with a IMAGE STABILIZER. Will a Canon EF 75-300mm F4-5.6 IS USM Lens be a good choice?

Will the IMAGE STABILIZER work with the URSA Mini 4,6K?
And will there be any noise from it, going into an external microphone located on top of the UM 4,6K?

I am sorry to ask so basic questions. But as a wrote in the beginning: I have absolutely no knowledge about lenses. I never owned one.
Hope you can help me.

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:19 pm
by Robert Niessner
Hi Carsten,

don't be sorry, everyone needs some help here and there when starting fresh.

Image stabilizer (IS) will work with the camera but only during recording when camera is on battery. While using the power supply IS is always on if it is switched to ON on the lens itself.
Don't expect miracles from IS designed for taking photos - that is a different use-case. With some lenses the IS can lead to stuttering during pans because it tries to counter the movement. Some lenses therefor provide different types of IS.

Some questions:

1. What is your budget for lenses?
2. What type of work are you gonna do with your new camera?
3. Are you gonna handheld or tripod most of the time?
4. How much working experience do you have with cameras and which camera did you have before the URSA Mini 4.6k (UM46k)?

Just my opinion:
For your first lens I'd choose the Sigma ART 18-35 1.8 - it has no IS but is a very good and fast lens on the UM46k. It depends on your type of work, but you probably won't shoot much with a 75-300mm.
A second lens could be the Sigma ART 50-100mm 1.8 (has no IS) or a 70-200mm 2.8 lens from Canon, Sigma, Tamron, or Tokina.

My setup for client work mostly consists of:
  • Tokina Cine 11-16mm T3.0 (f2.8)
  • Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8
  • Tokina Cine 50-135mm T3.0 (f2.8)

Those 3 lenses cover almost every scenario I am confronted with.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:06 pm
by Mattias Kristiansson
I just got the Sigma Art 18-35, and I really love it.
I bought my Canon 5D for stills 10 years ago and I have like 15 different EF mount lenses to choose from, but for filming with UM46K, I find the Sigma 18-35 is the perfect choice 90% of the time. The 18-35 mm focal length usually cover what I need, f1.8 is usually fast enough, and the 18-35 is really sharp even wide open. The bang-for-buck is incredible, it's THE lens to have with an URSA Mini. Just get it right away, you won't regret it!

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:14 pm
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

1. I don't have a set budget for lenses. I just make early retirement and will find the money for lenses that is needed. As I told you, am I new in lenses and I know that I will be learning during my progress. I have the idea to begin with one or two cheap foto lenses just to play with. May be I will then try find a place where I can rent and try out some of the better lenses.
before I buy my own.

I have seen some youtube videos. In one of them did they compare the Rokinon/Samyang Xeen Cine 2500$ kit versus the Rokinon/Samyang Cine NON XEEN 800$ kit. But I can't find the NON XEEN kit to 800$ or anywhere, or close to 800$. And I do not know how to say it. But in several forums do I read about, what I will call the missing quality control at Rokinon/Samyang.

2. Traveling videos and I travel a lot. Videos from my hobbies. And family videos, my niece is expecting her first baby to October.

3. I expect to buy a shoulder mount. Tripods will be necessary at airshows.

4. My first camera was a Sony Trinitron tube camera connected to a betamax recorder. Later i got a Full size VHS camcorder at work. And then I had a Sony Handycam DCR-TRV900 with 3CD I used for several years. It was a nice camcorder.
It have been much on and off. But now I want good 4K 50fps recordings.

I also want to tell you that I don't pan a lot. And I don't zoom much during recording either. What I use the zoom for is to find the right section to record.

But what do you think of my idea just to start with one or two lenses to play with. I see that there is several second hand Sigma EX 70-200mm f/2.8 on eBay. They don't cost more than I am willing to loose.
Or will it be better to buy one new Rokinon/Samyang NON XEEN Cine to start with. It can then be either a 35mm, 50mm or 85mm?

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:28 pm
by Ryan Earl
Hi Robert,
Why did you choose the Sigma 18-35 over the 16-28mm Tokina Cine? (if you have the other Tokina cine zooms)

If you are on an ultra budget Nikon AIS primes are an option. You can find a 35mm F2, 50mm F1.8, and 100mm F2.8 on eBay for about $100 each and 3 Nikon to Canon adapters for $20 each.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:15 am
by Robert Niessner
Carsten Sellberg wrote:1. I don't have a set budget for lenses. I just make early retirement and will find the money for lenses that is needed. As I told you, am I new in lenses and I know that I will be learning during my progress. I have the idea to begin with one or two cheap foto lenses just to play with. May be I will then try find a place where I can rent and try out some of the better lenses.
before I buy my own.


I think is clever to start with some used, cheap lenses to get some experience. So go for it. You can always sell them later for only a little loss.

Carsten Sellberg wrote:I have seen some youtube videos. In one of them did they compare the Rokinon/Samyang Xeen Cine 2500$ kit versus the Rokinon/Samyang Cine NON XEEN 800$ kit. But I can't find the NON XEEN kit to 800$ or anywhere, or close to 800$. And I do not know how to say it. But in several forums do I read about, what I will call the missing quality control at Rokinon/Samyang.


From memory the Xeens cost around 2500 per lens not as a kit. The Xeens have better built quality but as far as I know are not better optical wise than the Rokinon Cine.
I can't say anything about their quality control as I lack experience with the Rokinons.

Carsten Sellberg wrote:2. Traveling videos and I travel a lot. Videos from my hobbies. And family videos, my niece is expecting her first baby to October.

4. My first camera was a Sony Trinitron tube camera connected to a betamax recorder. Later i got a Full size VHS camcorder at work. And then I had a Sony Handycam DCR-TRV900 with 3CD I used for several years. It was a nice camcorder.
It have been much on and off. But now I want good 4K 50fps recordings.


I don't wanna talk you out of the UM46k - but are you sure have a good idea of how different shooting with this type of camera is - compared to the cameras you've had used before? And how huge file sizes of 4k 50fps will get? We are talking of 10 GBytes per minute here. You need large harddrives and a backup strategy.

And the rigged camera is heavy despite being called "Mini" and consumes ~45 W of power. But the footage quality is fantastic.

Carsten Sellberg wrote:3. I expect to buy a shoulder mount. Tripods will be necessary at airshows.


You will need an expensive head/tripod - the heavier the camera the more expensive tripods get.
Shoulder mount alone won't work, you will need some handles too.

Carsten Sellberg wrote:I also want to tell you that I don't pan a lot. And I don't zoom much during recording either. What I use the zoom for is to find the right section to record.
With photo lenses zooming wouldn't work anyway as they are not parfocal, which means they can't hold the focus while zooming.

Carsten Sellberg wrote:But what do you think of my idea just to start with one or two lenses to play with. I see that there is several second hand Sigma EX 70-200mm f/2.8 on eBay. They don't cost more than I am willing to loose.
Or will it be better to buy one new Rokinon/Samyang NON XEEN Cine to start with. It can then be either a 35mm, 50mm or 85mm?


The 70-200 2.8 would be a nice start but you need to compliment it with another focal length range for wider shots. 70mm is quite narrow already.

I just tested a very cheap lens I have lying around with my UM46k and it works ok: Canon EF-S 55-250 4.0-5.6 IS II
Image quality is not great and it needs 1-2 stops more light than the 70-200 2.8, but it costs next to nothing.
For the wider angles you could get a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 which is dirt cheap for what it delivers.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:20 am
by Robert Niessner
Ryan Earl wrote:Hi Robert,
Why did you choose the Sigma 18-35 over the 16-28mm Tokina Cine? (if you have the other Tokina cine zooms)


Ryan, I was waiting for the release of the Tokina Cinema 16-28 MK II (because it has far less breathing than MK I) but they took forever. So I went for the Sigma 18-35. After I had bought it, Sigma announced their Cine line...

So I am torn a little bit between the Tokina 16-28 MK II and the Sigma Cine 18-35.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:15 am
by Adam Silver
Robert Niessner wrote:For your first lens I'd choose the Sigma ART 18-35 1.8 - it has no IS but is a very good and fast lens on the UM46k. It depends on your type of work, but you probably won't shoot much with a 75-300mm.
A second lens could be the Sigma ART 50-100mm 1.8 (has no IS) or a 70-200mm 2.8 lens from Canon, Sigma, Tamron, or Tokina.

My setup for client work mostly consists of:
  • Tokina Cine 11-16mm T3.0 (f2.8)
  • Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8
  • Tokina Cine 50-135mm T3.0 (f2.8)

Those 3 lenses cover almost every scenario I am confronted with.


Hi Robert,

Is this the lens you're referring to? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... c_hsm.html

I've seen a lot of people mention the Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8. What confuses me is that the description of the lens says: Designed for APS-C-Sized Sensors

I would think that would lead to vignetting on the URSA Mini 4.6k.

Adam

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:50 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

I had put all what Robert Niessner wrote in 'quotes'.

'From memory the Xeens cost around 2500 per lens not as a kit.'
I will have no problem with ending op with a cost of 3 x 2500, but I am not sure Xeens is the right solution.

'I don't wanna talk you out of the UM46k'
A month ago I was looking for a Panasonic GH5, but I stopped due to the GH5's problems with auto focus.

'And how huge file sizes of 4k 50fps will get? We are talking of 10 GBytes per minute here.'
I plan to use 2 x Samsung 850 PRO and dual CFast to SATA adapters with the camera. And 2 x Westen Digital RED 6 TB HDD with a total of 12TB in my laptop. And Backup drives of the same size.

'And the rigged camera is heavy despite being called "Mini" and consumes ~45 W of power. But the footage quality is fantastic.'
20 year ago I was delivering Sound and TV systems to Cruse Ships. The delivery normally included ENG Cameras. As I remember was I a ableto shoot a two hour long show with an heavy ENG Camera on my shoulder.

'You will need an expensive head/tripod - Shoulder mount alone won't work, you will need some handles too.'
Agree on the tripod. I don't know what a handle is?

'The 70-200 2.8 would be a nice start'
The I just have to find out if I want a second hand one just to play with or a new to keep.

'For the wider angles you could get a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 which is dirt cheap for what it delivers.'
I found a NEW one at the same price as several of the second hand ones. I am really condcidering to buy it.

I just want to point out that 'very cheap' and 'dirt cheap' is word I use for lenses to play with due to NO knowledge of lenses.
I expect to use several grand on my final lenses.

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:23 am
by rick.lang
Robert, the Xeen lenses used the same optics as the Rokinon Cine DS, but they have a new superior coating that improves the image; the new coating made the 24mm a good lens as a Xeen, but the original 24mm was the weakest link in the non-Xeen family.


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URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:37 am
by rick.lang
Carsten, congratulations on your early retirement. Hope you enjoy your new camera immensely.

I assume you bought the Mini 4.6K with EF mount? Or do you mean you bought the new URSA Mini Pro which comes in EF mount, but the mount can be replaced by a B4 optical mount, a PL mount, and a Nikon mount I believe.

With your ENG background, do you have any HD quality ⅔" zooms in B4 mount? That might be a great way to start learning. I mostly shoot with a Fujinon HA20x7.8B M10 B4 parfocal T2.4 zoom. Great way for you to learn the new camera using a cinematic Zoom. I record in 2K 16:9 and create HD deliverables in Resolve Studio.

For 4.6K shooting with apochromatic cinema primes, I use the SLR Magic T2.1 APO in 25mm, 50mm, and 85mm.


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Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:22 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi Rick.

Yes I ordered the URSA Mini 4.6k with a EF mount.

The SLR Magic T2.1 APO in 25mm, 50mm, and 85mm was a good possibility for my final lenses, if it was with a EF mount.
I see that B&H sell the PL version Kit for a little less than the the Rokinon Xeen Kit.
But it don't come with EF mounts.

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:32 pm
by Ryan Earl
New Xeen or SLR Magic or used CP2? There are quite a few cp2 lenses on eBay right now below the cost of a new Xeen or APO prime.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:05 pm
by Denny Smith
Both the Zeiss CP and SLR APOs have EF mounts available, also. Do not know why you ordered the EF might, if you want to go with Cine Lenses. The EF mount will have more issues, like image moving when lulling a focus with dampened Cine lenses (there is play in the EF mount, which allows a slight wiggle of the lens, this gets worse with wear, and causes the image to shift slightly during a focus pull). I would cancel the EF mount, and get the PL mount version of the camera.
Cheers

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:21 pm
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi Ryan.

You got a nice idea. When I check can I bay two new CP2 from France ( 35mm + 85mm )
and a Demo ( 50mm ) from New Jersey in United States at about the same price as the others.

Do you know what the difference is between CP2 and CP3?

And I think it is to early. I will have to learn more about lenses before I buy. But I will for sure remember your idea.

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:05 pm
by rick.lang
Carsten, the SLR Magic APO primes are delivered with a PL mount on the lens. You just unscrew the PL mount at the back of the lens and screw on the optional SLR Magic EF mount. It's a user replaceable mount, not an adapter, and it's a passive mount. I have the optional APO lens EF mount as well for use on my Canon camera.


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Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:06 pm
by rick.lang
I agree with Denny. If it's not too late, change the order for the Mini 4.6K to the locking PL mount.


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Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:22 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

It is to late. What I did was to order a 8 month old UM4,6k EF from a guy who upgraded to the PRO.
The price was the same as a NEW 4K. But how is it. During my research I found out, that on some URSA models you can change the mounts? It that possible on the UM4,6k. May be I can consider that when I am ready to buy my own decent lenses.

But I have an another question for you. One hour ago did I order 2 Samsung 850 PRO SSD. I want to put them in a black alu box between the camera and the v-mount plate. Can some please tell me the size of the of the cameras back?
How large a box can I fit?

Regards Carsten.

URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:21 pm
by rick.lang
Carsten, on the URSA Mini 4.6K PL mount camera that shipped late March 2016, you can change the mount to the original BMD B4 optical mount as I have done. That camera also includes a 12pin hirose connector to control compatible B4 servo zooms for example.

The new URSA Mini Pro comes in the EF mount, but on the new camera, the mount can be changed by the user for PL, Nikon, and a new version of the B4 optical mount.

When you receive your camera, you can fit whatever custom enclosure you wish, but BMD plans to issue a SSD solution soon. AFAIK.


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Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:55 pm
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi Rick.

Do you have more information on the BMC SSD solution. Do it have just one SSD or have it options for 2 SSD's.

As I se it is one of the problems, that the SATA 3 Interface is limited to 6 Gbit/s. But it is the way, all CFast 2.0 readers are connected.
The Samsung SSD 850 Pro with SATA 3 I just ordered, can obtain up to 520 MB/s in Sequential Write.
On PC's with the new M.2 interface or a plugin PCI-e card can a Samsung SM 960 Pro with M.2 obtain up to 2100 MB/s in Sequential Write.
That is 3 times as fast as the old SATA 3. And suddenly will there be no more dropped frames. Do any know how the BMC's SSD are connected?

And can it be used on all the mini's: 4K, 4,6k and the PRO?

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:28 pm
by Denny Smith
Carsten, the UM 4.6 EF lens mount is not interchangeable, due to lens contact pin setup, which is not part of the mount, but sits behind it. One user has made his own Nikon mount on a big Ursa PL camera, but that camera had more room between the PL mount, which included a FFD space, and the UM EF. But being a EF mount, Nikon/EF adapters can cover that. It would not be practical to change out the EF mount with a custom PL mount, as the cost (unless you are a good machinist and have the skills),would be more than a new PL camera.

With new cameras coming out, keep an eye open for either a UM 4.6 PL or the UM Pro camera on the used market, as you did for your current camera.
Cheers

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:54 pm
by Mattias Kristiansson
Why get a PL mount, if you don't plan to spend a fortune on PL cine lenses? EF lenses are all over the place, and cheap. The Sigma 18-35 is only about 800 usd and is so good in that range, that no amount of money will get you significantly better optics. (Well, a little better, but you'd have to do A/B comparison and pixel-peep to see the difference).

A couple of thousand dollars will get you a nice collection of EF glass that'll have you covered for pretty much everything. Say a Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16/2.8, a Sigma 18-35/1.8 ART, Tokina AT-X Pro 28-70/2.8, some IS 70-200 zoom, a nice set of Samyang/Rokinon primes for when you need that extra T-stop or you want to pull focus (16, 24, 35, 50, 85) and a long IS zoom for the air shows (the Tamron 150-600mm G2 might be something to look closer at).

Still, with all the lens options available, the Sigma 18-35/1.8 ART is without a doubt the first lens to get.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:13 pm
by Mattias Kristiansson
BTW, you also have to spend some money on an IRND filtering solution. Square or screw in type depends on how you intend to use the camera, but in any case regular ND filters that don't stop IR _will_ give you IR problems, unless you modify the camera and put an IR filter right in front of the sensor.

There has been some discussions about which IRND filters are the best. There might be minor differences, but if you want a suggestion, Formatt Firecrest will get the job done and their 2 mm version is pretty affordable.

IR issues might be new to you, if you haven't used BM cameras before, but as soon as you start using ND filters the IR issues will get very apparent.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:24 pm
by Adam Silver
My question to Robert got lost in the mix. Anyone know the answer?

I've seen a lot of people mention the Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8. What confuses me is that the description of the lens says: Designed for APS-C-Sized Sensors

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... c_hsm.html

I would think that would lead to vignetting on the URSA Mini 4.6k. Does it not? Thanks!

Adam

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:24 am
by Mattias Kristiansson
Adam Silver: Sigma 18-35 has a big enough image circle for the 4,6K sensor. It's no problem.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:06 am
by Adam Silver
Mattias Kristiansson wrote:Adam Silver: Sigma 18-35 has a big enough image circle for the 4,6K sensor. It's no problem.


Thanks Mattias! I'm going to consider that lens.

Adam

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:30 am
by rick.lang
I think it's a single SSD but that likely will support much more storage capacity than people are using for the dual CFast 2 cards.


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Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:25 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

I have been looking on both the Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8 and a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 as my first lens.
The later come with or without VC Vibration compensation.

I like the YouTube videos on the Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8 more, and I hope, if I don't want to keep it, at will be easy to sell for at a good price?

But it is heavy. Will I need some kind if a lens suppot?

And what kind of filter to get, just to protect it.

What do you think. Do you have any comments?

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:32 am
by Robert Niessner
Carsten Sellberg wrote:Hi.

I have been looking on both the Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8 and a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 as my first lens.
The later come with or without VC Vibration compensation.

I like the YouTube videos on the Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8 more, and I hope, if I don't want to keep it, at will be easy to sell for at a good price?

But it is heavy. Will I need some kind if a lens suppot?

And what kind of filter to get, just to protect it.

What do you think. Do you have any comments?

Regards Carsten.


Carsten, the 18-35 is heavy but not that heavy and it isn't that long as some of the narrow angle lenses.
This makes a big difference because the force onto the mount is not only related to the weight but to the distance aka Lever-arm-law.

I'm using the 18-35 without lens support all the time.
For filtering I prefer the German made [quote=https://www.amazon.com/Heliopan-Digital-707786-specialty-floating/dp/B0009KJ048/]Heliopan Digital Filter (UV & Infrared)[/quote], it serves me well. There is a new magnetic filter quick release system from Manfrotto: MFXFH72 & MFXLA72 "XUME" so you have to buy only one filter and use it on many lenses.

You will need an infrared filter for your camera anyway.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:05 pm
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

I am sorry, but I beleive that the filter size on the Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8 is 72mm, I think your link is for a 77mm?

I don't know anything about filters.

And the idea with a magnetic mount is new to me. I wonder if my other coming lenses will have the same filter sizes?
So I can swap filters from lens to lens. Can the Heliopan filters work without the magnetic mount?

My idea until now was more one filter pr lens as the Formatt Firecrest. The one Mattias suggested. But there is one thing I don't understand when I read about them.
In the spec I see a number for 'Density 2.1 (7 stop)'. others has down to 1 stop. Will it possible to have one with 0 stop?
Or do I in fact buy a 1.8 lens, and a filter with 1 stop and then loose some light?

How much light will I loose in the Heliopan.

I think both the Heliopan and the Formatt Firecrest is nearly in the same price range. So Which is best?
And do somebody know a place with stock inside the EU?

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:28 pm
by Robert Niessner
Carsten, I linked you the 77mm because a larger filter can go on a smaller lens, but a smaller filter mostly not on a bigger lens.

The Firecrest filter are combo-filters: ND + IR

You will definitely need some ND filters anyway because out in the sun you have to take lots of light away.
For light control you have several options:

* shutter speed - normally you won't go much faster than 1/100 for 25fps or 1/200 for 50fps because camera movement will then look not so smooth anymore. Standard shutter for 25fps is 1/50 and 1/100 for 50fps - so the shutter is not a good option for controlling incoming light.

* aperture - if you want some bokeh (lens blur) in your shots you can't close the iris too much and you shouldn't go beyond f16 because then physics strikes back (diffraction) and your whole image will get less sharp

* dimm your light source or move it further away - this might be less then easy with the sun ;)
but dimming is possible by using diffusion between sun and your subject.

* last and common option is to use a ND filter which cuts the light in stops
ND0.3 = -1 stop
ND0.6 = -2 stops
and so forth

Problem with NDs without IR filtering: it cuts the visible light but not the infrared portion. With increased ND density your image will get more and more polluted by infrared light - making blacks brownish and the whole image gets a magenta cast.

The Heliopan is not a ND filter and therefor has "0" stops. And it will work without the magnetic mount. You can adapt a 77mm filter to 72mm or smaller by using a step down ring.

Heliopan is cheaper in EU because it is a German manufacturer.
You can get it here for half the US price:
https://www.foto-mueller.at/webshop/hel ... ilter.html

(bought mine there too)

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:12 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

I now understand that I not just need one filter for one lens. But that I will need several filters and it can be nice to swap then between lenses.

For that I will need an adapter, I believe it is called a step up adapter from 72mmm to 77mm. They come in different qualities.
It will be nice if some of you will choose one for me. I don't mind if it come from Amazon.de or at least from inside EU.

As long as I only have one or max two lenses don't I think that I will need the Manfrotto MFXFH77 + MFXLA77 "XUME" magnetic holder.
But when I reach my lens number 3 will I need one. It is on the shopping list. Will I then also need the Manfrotto MFXLC77 "XUME" quick release Objektivdeckel/cap 77mm?

You both tell me that I will need a IRND filter. And I will choose a 77mm for it and all my coming filters. But what Density and Brand to choose?

Amazon.de have them, but is there better alternatives?

At last I have a another question. I started to look at 70-200mm 2.8 lens from Canon, Sigma, Tamron, or Tokina. How important is Image stabilization. Do I realy need it or is it just nice to have?

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:43 pm
by rick.lang
Carsten, I use Heliopan brass step-up rings since brass won't bind with the metal of your lens or filters.


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Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:59 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

The Postman ( lady ) has been busy the last couple of days.
I received a Heliopan brass step-up ring together with the Heliopan 77mm IR filer from foto-mueller.
And a Sigma ART 18-35mm 1.8 from a local shop.

So thank you very much for you good advises.

I also received two CFast to SATA cables from Italy and some Samsung 850 PRO 512 GB SSD from UK.
But here I have a question. Do you think it is possible to record UHD 50 fps in RAW on one SSD, or do I need 2 SSD for that?

The reason I am asking is, that I just maked a few test recordings with different setting. And one of them is UHD 50 fps on one SSD and it works.
I am still waiting for my dual 2.5" to 3.5" enclosure. But if you think UHD 50 fps will work on one SSD, will I mount the dual 2.5" to 3.5" unit in my desktop PC and order one 2.5 enclosure for my URSA Mini 4,6K. It will be much smaller and lighter.

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:32 pm
by rick.lang
Carsten, you've tested the SSD with UHD 50 fps and it worked. In the past I've found instances where the failure happens within a few seconds or a few minutes. I'd test for several minutes to be safe and then you're good to go.


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Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:06 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

I started to read a lot of lens reviews to find out what lens to buy as my lens number two and
have some questions for you.

With NO knowledge of lenses and with the prices people are trying
to get on eBay, I have decided that my next lens will also be a new one.

But how old a model of a lens do you think it is OK to buy?
Is it OK to buy the previous model. Or shall I only go for the newest model.

I found a web page of SIGMA History – 1961 to 2010

Will it be OK to buy a model from the year of 2010?
What about one from 2005?

How fast it the development in lenses.


And an another question.

For Airshows will it be nice to have a zoom up to 400mm.

What will be best: A Canon 70-200mm with an additional Canon EF III Extender
or a Sigma or Tamron?

What I am asking, how good is the Canon EF III Extenders. Or shall I forget it?

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:39 am
by Tommaso Alvisi
Carsten, have a look at the Canon 100-400mm, either Mark 2 or the old Mark 1 depending on your budget.

For airshow I think would be great coupled with something for wider coverage like the insanely great Canon 17-55 2.8 IS.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:12 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

When I look on heavy lenses I can't really understand HOW to mount them together with my URSA Mini 4.6K?

When looking on lenses for Airshows as Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS II USM with a weight of 1640 g / 56 oz or
Tamron SP 150-600mm 1:5-6,3 Di VC USD G2 with a weight of 2,010 g / 71 oz, I see that they have a tripod mount ring.
But i expect that the ring are weight balanced, when the lens is mounted on a DSLR.

Any idea how to mount one of the heavy lenses together with my URSA Mini 4.6K?
What do others do.

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:57 pm
by Denny Smith
Easy... Add rails and a lens support for,thrmlens being used. Wooden Camera and Zacuto,have some nice ones. Thismis how I deal with front heavy lenses, and long zooms.
Cheers

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:42 pm
by Tristan Pemberton
Carsten Sellberg wrote:Any idea how to mount one of the heavy lenses together with my URSA Mini 4.6K?
What do others do.

SmallRig probably has the most affordable quality solutions around.

Here's their lens support products:
http://www.smallrig.com/supports/lens-support.html

You'll need to attach that to a 15mm support system. They're integrated into the UM shoulder kit - you just need to buy a pair of 15mm rods:
http://www.smallrig.com/shoulder-rigs/r ... -rods.html

Or you can get a third party solution like this:
http://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-multip ... -1674.html

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:21 am
by Robert Niessner
Carsten, this is how I've rigged my camera:

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:22 am
by Robert Niessner
Some more views of the rig:

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:54 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Just what I needed.
But I found out that the shipping cost from the US to Europe is very high.
And I like the pictures of a full size rig. But I hope for something smaller. May be it not will be possible. But I can always hope.

So I will begin to look more into SmallRig. I understand that I will need a Long Lens Support 1087.
And in the other end a SmallRig Shoulder Pad 1485. But I am not sure what to put in between?

Do I need a SmallRig Offset Raiser 1031 ( Z - shape ), or will it be possible to connect from the from Shoulder Pad direct over to the Long Lens Support 1087 via 2 long rods?

And what is your suggestion for a Camera base plate for my URSA Mini 4.6K?

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:22 pm
by Robert Niessner

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:15 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

I want to learn more about lenses so I ordered one from eBay yesterday. It is a used Contax Zeiss 80-200mm f4.

https://www.zeissimages.com/mtf/cy/Vario-Sonnar4_80-200mm_e.pdf

Do any know if it can work with the URSA Mini 4,6K?

According to you answer will I either order a Canon bayonet for Contax lenses with Narrow Diameter kit from Leitax:

http://www.leitax.com/Zeiss-Contax-lens ... meras.html

Or a

https://fotodioxpro.com/products/cy-eos-dc

But will I need it with or without the Focus Confirmation Chip?

My last question will be about a filter for it. From the above spec:

Filter connection: thread M 55 x 0.75 mm, screw-in type H': a) 32.9 mm in front of last lens vertex
clip-on type, diameter 58 mm

For my Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Art you recommended a 77mm Heliopan and a bras stepup ring.
What will you recommend for the Contax Zeiss. And do I need a 55mm, 58mm or something else.

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:27 pm
by Tommaso Alvisi
Go with LEITAX.

55mm filters or step ups to your desired size.

Heliopan BRASS step ups are a SOLID choice.

Hope it helps!

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:37 pm
by Mike Henricks
I have 7 contax/zeiss lenses,all with the Fotodiox adapters without the confirmation chip. Mechanical lenses so the chip doesn't have anything to talk to on my lenses.
Only one complaint, the lens caps don't attach well but the connection to the camera seems solid.
I've been using these for about 3 years.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:49 am
by Carsten Sellberg
Hi.

@Tommaso Alvisi. Yes it helps. I am completely new to lenses, and after your conformation I ordered a Leitax kit.

But I did not receive an email confirmation yet. So I will contact Leitax on Monday and then also ask if I can add a Canon rear lens cap to my order.
But which one do I need for my Contax Zeiss 80-200mm f4. A generic Canon EOS rear lens cap or the generic Canon EF body cap?

http://www.leitax.com/Zeiss-Contax-lens ... meras.html

Regards Carsten.

Re: URSA Mini 4,6K and Lenses?

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:15 pm
by Tommaso Alvisi
Rear cap.

Leitax is the best, solid as a brick and with NO PLAY. ;)