Question about Ursa and Global Shutter, FPS and Timecode

Hi guys,

My team and I are looking to purchase a Blackmagic Ursa camera but we struggling to understand which Ursa has which feature set and we have a few specific requirements. I have come to the forum to ask for clarity in regards to the many types of Ursa available. (Ursa 4k, Ursa Mini, Ursa Mini Pro, Ursa 4.6k, Ursa mini 4.6k etc)

My first requirement is that it MUST shoot with a global shutter. Rolling shutter is not an option.

My second requirement is that is must shoot over 120 frames per second (preferably 150 frames per second). Sensor cropping is not a problem, we just need high frame rates.

My third requirement is that it has a timecode output interface. We need to read and interpret this timecode using an Ardiuno.

Obviously we would like to use the latest and smallest Ursa but i'm sure that those have rolling shutter. If anyone could list the Ursa cameras which meet the above requirements that would be amazing. Thank you so much!

Also, if anyone could shed some light on the timecode output from the Ursa cameras and their experience using this it would be greatly appreciated. Information such as which port produces the output (LANC?), and how they interpreted this output?

Thanks,
Felix

If global shutter is a mandatory requirement, you're looking at the 4K sensor. The URSA Mini 4K/Pro 4K cameras currently promoted by BMD, the Blackmagic Production Camera (BMPC4K), and the original URSA 4K. To go above 120 fps, I think you need the 4K version 2 sensor in the URSA, not the 4K version 1 sensors originally sold in the original URSA. But I don't know if that's available.




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To be more specific.

Available:
URSA Mini 4.6k EF & PL / URSA Mini Pro 4.6k ... rolling shutter and 60fps full sensor/120fps cropped
URSA Mini 4k EF ... global shutter and 60fps max full sensor

Discontinued:
URSA 4k v1 ... global shutter and 80fps max full sensor
URSA 4k v2 ... global shutter and 120 fps full sensor/150fps cropped

So the only camera fitting your needs is the URSA 4k v2. Unfortunately you'd have to buy one second hand if you really want that one.

Timecode is output with the SDI signal from the SDI outputs.
LANC is for remote control and has nothing to do with timecode.

Thanks, Robert, for confirming that URSA 4Kv2 option. The problem is finding one!


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Thank you for your clear and concise replies. Super helpful. I have a few follow up questions.

You said that the URSA Mini 4k EF has global shutter and 60fps max full sensor. Is there any way of making the sensor in this camera go above 60fps using sensor cropping? That would be ideal for us.

Thank you so much for clearing up the timecode output question. Could you comment on the SDI outputs some more, I notice that there are 2 SDI outputs on the URSA. Which one is best for high frame rate timecode output? We are attempting to control 4 flashing LED lights which each last the duration of one frame, in a sequence. Is there any information about what timecode standard the URSA uses and what its refresh rate is?

I just checked the Ursa Mini's camera manual and good news:
The URSA Mini 4k EF is capable of shooting 120fps in cropped mode 1080p ProRes HQ.

See here p.26:
http://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/C ... Manual.pdf

Regarding SDI outputs:
The one on the front outputs HD only, the one on the back can output UHD or HD. Both should be good for timecode, which is frame accurate.
The standards for SDI timecode is SMPTE and the specs can be found here (not for free):
https://www.smpte.org/top-standards

The camera has also a timecode in port (for external timecode from a TC generator) and REF port for a reference sync signal.

The question is if you want to sync flashing LEDs, if it wouldn't be easier to work with a timecode generator and a reference sync. But this is so specific that I'd advise you to ask this question in the live production section of this forum because there are many experts in this field and I'd also send a request to Blackmagic support because they'd be the ones being able to answer this in detail.

Thank you for your reply Robert,

This is certainly very interesting information in regards to the Ursa Mini 4k shooting 120 FPS. Can I draw your attention to this article by Premium Beat: premiumbeat.com/blog/choosing-blackmagic-ursa-ursa-mini/

In the article it says

"Both the URSA and the URSA Mini have the ability to toggle between a global and rolling shutter, which effectively unlock higher frame rate options. Although, the Mini is more limited than the URSA in some regards. For instance, the URSA can shoot at up to 120fps in 4K RAW, while the Mini will max out at 60fps in 4K RAW. In global shutter mode, the URSA maxes out at 60fps while the Mini can do only 30fps. In my opinion, this isn’t a deal breaker for the URSA Mini, as 60fps in 4K RAW is more than enough for most slow-motion work. Though, it’s still nice to have the ability to go up to 120fps on the URSA if you’re in a pinch."

Do you think this is something that was just not mentioned in the manual? Maybe we need to get Blackmagic technical support to comment on this. But if this quote is correct it could mean that even the large Ursa 4k V2 sensor might not be able to hack global shutter at 120FPS...

Felix, that article is outdated. Originally the Ursa Mini 4.6k sensor should be switchable between global and rolling shutter mode. But Blackmagic never got global shutter to work properly. So they ditched this ability in favor of being able to finally release the camera after a year of delay. And they never released the planned Ursa 4.6k of which this article was talking.

The older sensor in the Ursa Mini 4k (and Ursa 4k) was always global shutter only.

I See! Great thank you for clearing that up for me Robert. I am going to set my sights on the Ursa Mini 4K EF. That seems to be the best middle ground between useable weight and desireable features. Thanks for all your help! This has been then most informative forum experience of my life.

One last question: If I was to buy the Ursa Mini 4K and use it for the global shutter in this project I'm doing. Afterwards, would I be able to upgrade the sensor to the 4.6k and make use of all the benefits of that sensor? If so, how much would that upgrade cost? And is it something I would have to get Blackmagic to do or can I do it myself? Having the option of both sensors would be amazing.

Felix, unfortunately the sensor of the Ursa Mini is not upgradeable. This was an option of the big Ursa but which Blackmagic has not been able to fulfill up to this date. See the Turret thread in this forum.
Meanwhile the big Ursa is not sold anymore.

I can see two options for you:
Either renting an Ursa Mini 4k EF for the time of your experiment/job or buying it and selling it later with some loss. Then buy the Ursa Mini 4.6k.

Right, really good to know Robert. Thanks again. I think buying and re-selling is my best bet. Cheers!

Depending upon the dynamic range you're shooting demands, you may be very happy with the 4K sensor. It's different than the 4.6K, but it is popular among those who went with it. The significant downside is the lower dynamic range, but 12 stops is quite respectable for a global shutter. I only have the 4.6K sensor, but someone here may post a quick comparison illustrating 4.6K and 4K colour. There was a thread a while ago, but it might be hard to find.

If you are shooting in a controlled set where you can light appropriately, you may just keep the 4K... and add the 4.6K later as needed.


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I bought the Mini 4K and I am very happy! It is a really great camera! Thanks again to all of you for your advice Now onto the next difficult task of my project.