Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

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thomashelvenstine

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Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostWed Aug 09, 2017 2:05 am

Hello all! My name is Thomas Helvenstine, a Freelance DP/Cinematrographer based in Colorado.

I am new to the Ursa Mini, and it's my first black magic camera. I bought it 2nd hand off of ebay, and finally got the last component to start using my camera.... Until THIS happened. It's the first test footage out of the camera and I couldn't believe my eyes.

https://vimeo.com/228880018/2319be2304

Playback IN camera seems fine, however when I bring it into either Resolve or Premiere, the glitch happens in the same spot regardless of the workstation I'm in.

I'm using x2 1TB samsung evo drives, the Sata breakout cable, and the startech enclosures. All of which have been backed by ursa mini users.

I've done the following:
- Reset my camera settings
- Formatted the SSD's as exFAT in camera
- Formatted the SSD's on the computer
- Did a shot comparison of ALL variations in camera (RAW, UHD, and HD, all of which have a glitch in the footage one way or another)
- Swapped cables and ports

I am at a loss for words. I've invested several thousand dollars into this set up and I am NOT happy at all with what I'm seeing.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks!!
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rick.lang

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Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostWed Aug 09, 2017 7:40 pm

Could you tell us the detailed model number of the Samsung SSDs? Off the top of my head I thought the Pro versions were supported, not the Evo versions, but I'll check.

Edit
Yes, you should likely be using the certified 850 Pro versions, not the Evo versions. The approved SSDs are on the Blackmagic Support page.

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Robert Niessner

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostWed Aug 09, 2017 9:34 pm

thomashelvenstine wrote:I'm using x2 1TB samsung evo drives, the Sata breakout cable, and the startech enclosures. All of which have been backed by ursa mini users.

I am at a loss for words. I've invested several thousand dollars into this set up and I am NOT happy at all with what I'm seeing.


Thomas, I am sure you most likely won't want to hear this - but you are using a non officially supported/untested DIY solution for recording your data.

The camera officially supports recording to CFast2.0 cards and that's it. So unless this glitch happens while recording to CFast2.0 cards from the official list you can't complain to Blackmagic.
SSDs are a tricky thing - even with the BMCC and BMPC4k camera models.

So you have two options:
1) Try what Rick told you and test a Samsung 850 Pro.
2) Buy a CFast2.0 card and a card reader and give that a try to see if the glitch persists.
For example this card:
https://www.amazon.de/Transcend-TS128GC ... 00LL4QUTE/
Robert Niessner
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Zac Gaetano

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostWed Aug 09, 2017 11:21 pm

This is a result of you using the breakout cables. Those drives are rated for 520mb/s write speed which should be fine, But I can guarantee you are losing write speed. Try getting a CFast 2 card, recording to that and reporting back.
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John Brawley

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 4:55 am

thomashelvenstine wrote:
Playback IN camera seems fine,


If this is indeed the case, then it REEKS of the problem being in how you're transferring your files to your workstation.

There have been many instances where a bad caddy or cable in the COPYING process, or not using a checksum verification workflow to verify your copies causes this kind of problem.

It's also one of the main reasons that BMD went away from SSDs as they seem especially prone to copying failures like this.

Be interested to hear if you've indeed verified it never happens in camera. If that's true then it's almost certain to be related to how you transfer your files.

Also check out something like
http://www.imagineproducts.com/index.ph ... ucts_id=59

JB
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 5:15 am

John Brawley wrote:
thomashelvenstine wrote:
Playback IN camera seems fine,


If this is indeed the case, then it REEKS of the problem being in how you're transferring your files to your workstation.

There have been many instances where a bad caddy or cable in the COPYING process, or not using a checksum verification workflow to verify your copies causes this kind of problem.

It's also one of the main reasons that BMD went away from SSDs as they seem especially prone to copying failures like this.

John, if SSDs would be prone to copying failures like this then nobody could use SSDs anywhere.

It is very likely not the SSD but either a cable, the external dock/reader or the USB3 controller of the motherboard.

Thomas, you have to do tests systematically to find the cause of the problem.
Give us more technical details of your whole setup including computer and reader.
Robert Niessner
LAUFBILDkommission
Graz / Austria
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Read the blog in English via Google Translate:
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John Brawley

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 5:18 am

Robert Niessner wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
thomashelvenstine wrote:
Playback IN camera seems fine,


If this is indeed the case, then it REEKS of the problem being in how you're transferring your files to your workstation.

There have been many instances where a bad caddy or cable in the COPYING process, or not using a checksum verification workflow to verify your copies causes this kind of problem.

It's also one of the main reasons that BMD went away from SSDs as they seem especially prone to copying failures like this.

John, if SSDs would be prone to copying failures like this then nobody could use SSDs anywhere.

It is very likely not the SSD but either a cable, the external dock/reader or the USB3 controller of the motherboard.

Thomas, you have to do tests systematically to find the cause of the problem.
Give us more technical details of your whole setup including computer and reader.


The docks. The cables. The readers.

Always this was the problem !!

The media itself is fine. But if this is what happens, and since changing over to CFAST you never seem to see these problems coming up any more. Go back three years and every second post was like this.

JB
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 6:42 am

John Brawley wrote:Also check out something like
http://www.imagineproducts.com/index.ph ... ucts_id=59

JB

Have you tried Hedge? Been using it for a year now, totally solid so far and have found it to be faster than Shotput. And, the interface is a lot cleaner, which means I'm less likely to screw up what should always be a super simple operation.
www.incafilms.com
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James Alexander Barnett

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 9:50 am

I personally don't understand why people would invest thousands in camera gear and then use a DIY (bodge) solution to record your footage, this is the most important part of the process, without solid reliable media you have nothing! It just doesn't make sense to me.
James Alexander Barnett
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John Brawley

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 12:52 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
John Brawley wrote:Also check out something like
http://www.imagineproducts.com/index.ph ... ucts_id=59

JB

Have you tried Hedge? Been using it for a year now, totally solid so far and have found it to be faster than Shotput. And, the interface is a lot cleaner, which means I'm less likely to screw up what should always be a super simple operation.



I'm not personally do much data transferring these days, it's done usually by my data wrangler. A lot of the time the studio has very specific requirements about how and what is used to do this.

JB
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostThu Aug 10, 2017 7:23 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:Have you tried Hedge? Been using it for a year now, totally solid so far and have found it to be faster than Shotput. And, the interface is a lot cleaner, which means I'm less likely to screw up what should always be a super simple operation.


Are you using the IOS app Hedge Connect as well? - https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hedge-c ... 56213?mt=8

I mentioned the software to the data wrangler on the show I am working on, he downloaded it plus the IOS app. He is trying it out.He likes it because he is getting notifications on his watch.
Television: Lighting/Cameraman, O.B. Camera Operator, Grip, Lamp Operator
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostFri Aug 11, 2017 5:13 pm

Leon Benzakein wrote:Are you using the IOS app Hedge Connect as well? - https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hedge-c ... 56213?mt=8

I mentioned the software to the data wrangler on the show I am working on, he downloaded it plus the IOS app. He is trying it out.He likes it because he is getting notifications on his watch.

I'm using it too, though I don't have an Apple Watch so I get the notifications on my phone. I'm amazed at what a useful feature that is. I can walk away from my computer while the transfer is running and get right back to the load the next card exactly when I need to.
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robert Hart

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostFri Aug 11, 2017 8:34 pm

The SSD adaptors do not impress me greatly. They rely upon SATA cables and some iterations seem to rely upon the worst of them which are the red ones. I have not yet seen a SATA plug that was ever any good. It is a mechanically incompetent dead-end design. Some effort was made to address one shortcoming which was a sort of bulldog clip built into the plug.

Somebody unlearned or failed to learn some basic design principles when the SATA hardware standard was devised and visited upon the world of computing. In fixed enclosures, the plugs fail unless the mechanical loading upon their structure is relieved with very, very careful routing and folding of the cables themselves. In an exposed and moving environment they will be every bit as vulnerable to failure and inconsistent contact as the troubled 6pin firewire socket on the JVC GY-HD family of cameras.

This is my opinion based on some bad experiences with SATA cables and where I found the points of mechanical failure. I do not have statistics to prove my argument.
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John Brawley

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Re: Ursa Mini 4K Footage GLITCH (New User)

PostSun Aug 13, 2017 5:49 pm

Wonder how the OP is doing ?

Wonder if they worked out where it was going wrong ?

JB
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