Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 and C300

Hello Everyone,

I was wondering if someone could help me out with this. I have a shoot this weekend on the C300. The producer asked for DNxHD as a codec for delivery. Is there any way that I could use the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 to record DNxHD? I read in the forums that there is a pull-down issue with the Canon cameras and the Shuttle.

It is my understanding that this issue only happens over HDMI. Would I have this issue if I used SDI instead? I was always wondering if anybody is familiar with the start/stop functionality of the C300 and Hyperdeck Shuttle 2.

Thank you!

I can only speak to using a Blackmagic recorder on the C100 (which is HDMI only) but it does NOT remove the pulldown. It might via SDI but that depends on what the C300 outputs. That said, I have compared footage with and without pulldown removed (Atomos recorder vs. Blackmagic Video Assist, both ProRes HQ) and there is no visible difference once you put it into your non-linear editor.

For that matter and just for the sake of argument- I really think you'd be hard pressed to see a difference between the internal XAVC codec of the C300 and the DNxHD of the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2. The C300 already retains 10bit, 4:2:2 color on the internal recording and in fact, I think the color steps down to 8bit when recorded externally. I imagine the client is looking for a quick way to throw this into his editor but I would recommend capturing on a CompactFlash card over external recording as the extra effort is not worth the trouble. I cannot even tell a difference on my C100, which records internal 4:2:0 AVC!

Edit: for what it's worth, DNxHD is advertised as a feature of the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/hyperdeckshuttle/

I agree with Dustin, and the Shuttle 2 will record DNxHD. However, if the C300 outputs a 3:2 pulldown signal, then that is what the Hoerdeck will record. You will need to remove the pulldown in post on a NLE.
You get the same results with SDI or HDMI, the difference is cable lengths can be longer with SDI and you have the security of locking connections. You will need a DIN SDI to normal size SDI high bandwidth cable to connect the C300. If the C309 can output a non pulldown 1080p24/25 signal via SDI, then that would be the way to go.

As for quality difference, some say you get a little better color grading latitude and improved exposure adjustments, but if the footage is correctly exposed and color balance set, then not much difference between this and the inteneral recording codec, just use the highest bit rate setting. The main advantage to DNxHD is if you are shooting for a TV station or other customer using Avid NLE editing systems. For FPC or Resolve, ProRes is a better choice. Matching codec to the NLE, eliminates transcoding time, and is the main benefit.
Cheers

Thanks, everyone!

I'll have to look and see if the C300 does pull down or not over SDI. Not sure where to find this information, but maybe the manual might have it. I would also want to know if I could use the start/stop functions with this combo. I'm pretty set on DNxHD as this is going to the Avid and we will need a fast turn around.

Not sure about Start/stop control with the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2, using the C300, I think I read somewhere it does, but the C300 is going to need recording media in it to work. So you will get both internal and external recording. I always found it quicker, to jstmoress the record button the the Hyperdeck, as I was using a tripod anyway when I did use the Shuttle.

BTW, if you need a Shuttle 2, I have a new/open box unit available for $250, and a BM Shuttle cheese (mounting) plate also available. PM me if interested.
Cheers

Not sure about Start/stop control with the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2, using the C300, I think I read somewhere it does, but the C300 is going to need recording media in it to work. So you will get both internal and external recording. I always found it quicker, to jstmoress the record button the the Hyperdeck, as I was using a tripod anyway when I did use the Shuttle.

BTW, if you need a Shuttle 2, I have a new/open box unit available for $250, and a BM Shuttle cheese (mounting) plate also available. PM me if interested.
Cheers

Denny,

Have you ever been able to get the start/stop to work? I know C300 does timecode over SDI. So technically it should?

FWIW, with the C100 does send the start/stop signal via HDMI, I imagine it should work on the C300.

FWIW, with the C100 does send the start/stop signal via HDMI, I imagine it should work on the C300.

Oh really!?

That is good news then.

Thanks Dustin!

Yup! There's a setting in the menu for it. Atomos has a pretty good video somewhere on their site for setting it up.

I have used the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 with my Canon XF305 over SDI and Start/Stop works. As the firmware is quite similar to the Cxxx line it should work with the C300 too.
You have to setup the Hyperdeck with the Hyperdeck utility on your computer, there you can change the recording format to DNxHD and activate record trigger.

Look here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8607
Seems like the C300 outputs a 59.94 signal when recording 23.97, that means you will need a 3:2 Pulldown in your editing suite.

Oh and BTW don't install any higher firmware update than 4.1 to the Hyperdeck Shuttle. The later updates bring no new features for the Shuttle but compatibility problems with recognizing SSDs.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/suppor ... 39/Windows
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/suppor ... c%20OS%20X

Look here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8607
Seems like the C300 outputs a 59.94 signal when recording 23.97, that means you will need a 3:2 Pulldown in your editing suite.

One thing, the post you linked states that the C300 outputs 29.97 but you state that it outputs a 59.94 signal. Is there something that I am missing? I also plan to shoot everything at 29.97p (it is video after all) so that should not be a problem.

Thank you for your help!

It's confusing but at least with the C100, it technically outputs a 60i (59.97) signal but every editor will see it as 29.97p.

Look here:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8607
Seems like the C300 outputs a 59.94 signal when recording 23.97, that means you will need a 3:2 Pulldown in your editing suite.

One thing, the post you linked states that the C300 outputs 29.97 but you state that it outputs a 59.94 signal. Is there something that I am missing? I also plan to shoot everything at 29.97p (it is video after all) so that should not be a problem.

Thank you for your help!

If you look into the user manual of the C300, there is a list telling what the SDI OUT will output and when:
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/5/030001055 ... 0-a-en.pdf
Page 139.

First to get Record Trigger to work, you need to set the C300 to T/C Record in the TC Mode submenu.
Next, as Robert stated, open the Shuttle Utility menu and set T/CbRecord Trigger to on.
Then when you press record on the C309, the camera sends active TC out SDI and the Shuttle starts recording.

To get true 24P recording, you need to turn on 24P in the camera menus. Not sure what the output will be, but give it a go and find out.
Cheers

This is the video output configuration chart of the C300 from the manual:

This seems also interesting information about setting the user bit:

Thanks Robert, another "crippled" Canon camera, which is what you get from all of Canon's Prosummer gear. Canon wants you to spend $50K to get a "real" fully functional camera! With today's high bandwidth cables, monitors and recorders, there is no reason to keep using a 3:2 pull down on video outputs. Canon is not eve offering the superior PSF for 24P over SDI.

This is why, I would never buy another Canon camera...
Cheers

This seems also interesting information about setting the user bit:

Wow! Thanks for digging that up Robert

...another "crippled" Canon camera...

With all due respect, neither the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle nor the Video Assist 4K are able to remove the pulldown on the fly when even Atomos' entry level recorder, the Ninja Star, does. This is getting off topic a bit- I agree it is pretty limiting but I see almost no benefit in recording to an external device off these cameras and if you do, most modern non-linear editors will remove the pulldown on the fly. Yes, you wind up with ~20% larger file sizes but I digress.

If the client wishes to have DNxHD 23.98 files delivered immediately after the shoot, the C300 with Hyperdeck 2 is probably not the right solution but there are workarounds if that's you're only option.

Correct Dustin, but they both will remove the format change in a1080PsF24 output via SDI, which is a more professional outputbthat the 3:2 pulldown, which results is some quality loss. There is no loss with PSF files, which was designed to transfer film footage 24fps Cine to interlace for broadcast, back when....
The fact that the C109/300/300 does not have this option is is baffling, even a Panny AF100 could output 1080PsF24 resolution over its low bandwidth HD SDI output.
Cheers

Fair enough, sir!

Since I was on the Canon manuals page I did some reading. From what I can tell, only the C300 and C100 do this (at least stated in their many manual). I looked at the C300mk2 and C200 and they do no mention the pull down.

I wonder if this is for only the older models?

Yes, the C200 can output HD as a 4.2.2 10-but file up to 59.94 fps, but 4K output is only 8-bit, up to 30 fps. The C300 Mk2 can only output up to 30 fps, but can output Raw which a external Convergent recorder is required. Neither camer is easily shoukder mounted, and is designed mainly for tripod work. Also a C300 Mk2 is going to run you $10K. A better choice in this type of auto focus EF mount capable camera would be the Oasanoc EVA-1.
Cheers.

Denny,

While I am inclined to agree with you. We have yet to see any footage from the EVA-1. I find that to be mildly concerning as we are at the end of August and the camera is said to be released in October. Who really knows what the auto focus is like? My guess is that it will be like the GH5, which is less than stellar.

Reports from a few test users, indicate is works, but again, not sure how well. My AF100 has autofocus with some MFT lenses, and it works very well given the age of the camera. Somthe EVA-1 should be even quicker and better. But again, AF is going to depend on the lens being used, as its speed is determined more by the focus servo motor than the camera.

A price-release of footage was recently held in NYC, so examp,e clips should be showing up soon. Again, it's IQ"Look" is very close to a Varicam LT, and you can fine example,es of that footage. Not saying the EVA-1 is the "perfect" solution, but rather just another option to look at.

For the money, the Urs Mini Pro is hard to beat, and is the only Camera of the three to record Raw internally, and ProRes codec. The others will require an external recorder, another cost to factor in.
Cheers