New firmware update for the big URSA

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Kyriakos Liarakos

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New firmware update for the big URSA

PostMon Oct 16, 2017 6:36 pm

Is there anyone who knows why BM is not developing any new firmware update for the big URSA?
They keep asking us to wait for the new sensor but are doing nothing to prove us that the URSA project is not really dead.
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paulgolden

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostMon Oct 16, 2017 11:41 pm

From everything I can tell, BMD is pretty much saying the big Ursa is not getting any more development. One of the first things they did was give owners a substantial discount to upgrade to an Ursa Mini, while allowing you to keep your big Ursa. This indicates to me that the big Ursa is EOL as far as upgrades go. It's no longer available on their website, so I would say it's obsolete (despite being entirely useful to its owners!)
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rick.lang

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostWed Oct 18, 2017 8:03 pm

Should have won an Oscar for cinema camera design when shooting with a crew.


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Rick Lang
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Kyriakos Liarakos

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostThu Oct 26, 2017 4:48 pm

I would like to use the new SDI to SSD recorder with my URSA, more Shooting Resolutions and the new user interface.
I also believe that the camera is a dead product but the company is not saying that the camera is EOL and people are talking only about the failed sensor.
I agree that URSA is great for shooting with crew. That's why I chose to buy it and that's why URSA mini pro is not for me.
A great product but a terrible support. So many promices and lies from blackmagic.
URSA is for sale on B&H and other stores. Should n't the buyers know if that they getting a EOL product ?
I own the camera for less than a year now. It is not fair that I gave my money for an EOL product.
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Patrick Acum

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostFri Oct 27, 2017 3:53 pm

I feel your pain! I shoot mainly on my ump/um46 but still love the design of the big ursa. Such a shame that its not getting any development. I find its particularly popular with my sound guys who love the big levels and mini lcd to see my framing for booming.
Maybe they should make it open source, its always had a pretty loyal following.
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Clayton Von Isaacs

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostMon Oct 30, 2017 7:33 am

Kyriakos Liarakos wrote:I would like to use the new SDI to SSD recorder with my URSA, more Shooting Resolutions and the new user interface.
I also believe that the camera is a dead product but the company is not saying that the camera is EOL and people are talking only about the failed sensor.
I agree that URSA is great for shooting with crew. That's why I chose to buy it and that's why URSA mini pro is not for me.
A great product but a terrible support. So many promices and lies from blackmagic.
URSA is for sale on B&H and other stores. Should n't the buyers know if that they getting a EOL product ?
I own the camera for less than a year now. It is not fair that I gave my money for an EOL product.

My understanding is the SSD recorder will only work with the Ursa Mini Pro. They were hoping to get to work on the Ursa Mini as well but have not heard anything other than it working only on the Pro
Clayton Von Isaacs
daydreamersproductions.com
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Patrick Acum

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostTue Oct 31, 2017 4:04 pm

I am surprised how on a monitored forum, although questions about the big ursa are constantly near the top of all posts, go entirely unanswered by anyone from bmd. What happened with the last batch of turret testing?
At this stage I'd still settle for a 4.6 turret without GS or off speed.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostTue Oct 31, 2017 9:10 pm

Patrick they said when they have something they'll update us here. I'm guessing we'll hear something within the next 90 days ..that's around february and 2 months before Nab 2018. I'll settle too, but BMD is saying they're not willing to settle.
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Michael Odhiambo

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostWed Nov 01, 2017 7:33 am

Donnell Henry wrote:Patrick they said when they have something they'll update us here. I'm guessing we'll hear something within the next 90 days ..that's around february and 2 months before Nab 2018. I'll settle too, but BMD is saying they're not willing to settle.



Ok, they will not settle, frustratingly understandable. We lovehate them for that. Take your time tweaking it. But, some customers are willing to take the 4.6K sensor on the BIG URSA as is (on the mini's) as a V1 while they sort out the problems and get GS working as a V2. For some reason, they feel thats short changing their customers. Maybe....maybe not. That thread is extensively discussed. This thread is specifically talking about updating the software on the current cam. To have LUT capability, False Color and other features we enjoy on the UM cams. Or will the update come with the turret? What if the turret never gets released? The cameras are still very functional and those utilities just extend the use of the camera. Sigh. I feel like these words have been said here before.

Interesting, the next update is 4.6. Would be a dream come true if the 4.6K turret is released, camera is updated to 4.6 and these threads finally move to the back of the cue ... wait, up in the sky, is that a bird, no... a plane... nope never mind, just a bunch of pigs.
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Denis Kazlowski

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 11:21 am

This is my personal best guess, but the development 4.6k turret, which is rolling shutter only, which fine by me, but not for some, but possibly for most current URSA 4K owners. When that Turret was Demo'd, it needed custom fPGA code and modifications to Camera OS/UI which some folks got to shoot with.

As global/rolling shutter 4.6k did not happen for 4.6k sensor, it is known why the sensor was not rushed out for it's MRSRP of $2.5k in the URSA Turret, finally as BM gave up, and decided that rolling shutter is fine the rest of their URSA Mini 4.6/Pro - the camera software platform moved away from the 2.6 URSA code quite a bit.

Now, 2+ years later the 4K Mini, 4.6k Mini, 4.6k Mini Pro have an entirely different operating system as of 4.0, with a truckload of features, possibly code blocks from - .. Fairchild - in their fPGA.

The URSA has the Cortex/ARM cpu power, bandwidth to process 4.6k and run the current 4.x Camera OS and and same pin interface - but back-porting the 4.0 operating system, adjusting to have it work on 2 touch-screens and testing it together with new codecs, aspect ratios and fPGA micro-code are what is most likely the most expensive part of the 4.6k turret not being released. It's been so long that doing mass disseminated updates for URSA (big) to 4.0 is not feasible. Most importantly a redo of all OS level drivers for all the micro controllers and devices on the URSA.

Possibly some talent that worked on the 2.6 to 3.x codebase have found other things to do, the 4.0 OS is from scratch, so the legacy camera OS is abandoned for platforms below UM 4k. BMCC, BMPC4k and so on.

It's potentially not the lack of sensors, or metals, or even demand for the 4.6k Turret, but a simple expense of cross-compiling and bloating with detection of camera type in the Camera OS now that it's so vastly different from the 2.6-2.8 releases that is slowing this down. - I think the human programming cost is the highest cost for preventing the 4.6k Turret from being made available. Not the sensor, not the vendor of it, nor the lack of margin or tooling.

BM Probably does not want to touch the 2.x OS codebase, nor back-port the 4.x OS to URSA, nor release the Alpha/Unstable 4.6k URSA legacy OS and fPGA binaries with the 4.6k turret.

I would assume if people were okay with running a "unstable/experimental" firmware on their big URSA and signed a waiver to such - which is somewhere in binary form on BMD's build machines, did not ask for further support with the camera and were okay with global shutter, no features and paying money for the sensor - they'd probably consider it.

I reality I do not think this is the case, I think if they sell someone a 4.6k Turret, that person will go back and ask for RAW 4:1, Anamorphic DeSqueeze, Black Shade Balancing, Applying Looks and LUTS on all 3 SDI outputs etc. I'm am very sure there are more 'just don't say you have one' 4.6k URSA's around than just the core geographical QA team.

Disclaimer, - This is my own personal pure speculation, I normally only deal in fact.
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Donnell Henry

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 3:25 pm

Denis that’s not bad speculation on your part at all. What if they built an OS Just for the big Ursa specifically. It would have some of the same coding as in the 4.0 release, but just built to work with the Ursa hardware. It think it would be better not to try so hard to integrate the 4.0 software to the URSA but instead build something specifically for the Ursa. Of course we’re playing on your speculations.
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Oli Koos

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 4:44 pm

What I dislike is, that the Pocket has not seen a new firmware for ages, yet it is still sold by BM so it should still see some love from BM.
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Denny Smith

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 8:12 pm

What would you hope to gain with a new FW update in the Pocket or Mini Camera? They both have more features now than when originally released and or promised. If it is not broken, do not try to fix it! applies here, unlike the Ursa, there is noting you can really add to the Pocket Camera at this stage, it has been maxed out, or a new FW would have been released. And BTW, this discussion is about the Ursa, not the Pocket camera.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Denis Kazlowski

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Re: New firmware update for the big URSA

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 2:27 am

Donnell Henry wrote:Denis that’s not bad speculation on your part at all. What if they built an OS Just for the big Ursa specifically. It would have some of the same coding as in the 4.0 release, but just built to work with the Ursa hardware. It think it would be better not to try so hard to integrate the 4.0 software to the URSA but instead build something specifically for the Ursa. Of course we’re playing on your speculations.


I don't think that's a concrete reality, it's probably easier to modify the legacy 2.6 or lower Camera OS versions for URSA if needed, given the people who wrote this are still around and are not otherwise tasked with other new code projects, as there were working prototypes of 4.6k URSA and two sensor versions on the URSA 4k shipped. So the work that has already been done to some degree on some things can be re-used if properly documented. - Then the question becomes what would one need, or ask for above 2.6 that was deployed on similar platforms absent a sensor upgrade - the 2.4 to 2.6 from my fuzzy memory were to enable the EVF and prob. clean up some bugs.

That would be the best we could hope for, as there are also a test cycles. I am not sure how divergent the the BM Production Camera 4k hardware (not just the sensor) is from URSA, this would be my go-to target for any significant OS feature upgrades as I've learned some happened.

Time consuming lime items would be ARM OS kernel level drivers for auxiliary devices onboard into the Camera OS. So I don't think back-porting 4.x type OS to URSA is fiscally responsible.

For the URSA - Such drivers that would allow generic UI code to speak to the recorder or the controllers, frame buffer output to the two screens etc and abstraction devices to send codes/commands back to the fGPAs/controllers to change settings. Frame buffer overlay for the 10" LVDS - Sure some drivers are probably out of the box, like USBIO, SATA, exFAT and HFS+ for all their camera lines, but some are very specific to each.

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