Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

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Quentin Devillers

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Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostThu Nov 02, 2017 10:05 pm

Hello,

I love the sensor and science color of this camera, but I have so many issues arround that that I'm asking myself if I should send it back to repair or refund...
So I decided to ask to the community !


Does anyone has this kind of issue on his Ursa Mini Pro 4,6k ?

- BIG HARDWARE ISSUE : the vlock battery plate doesn’t hold battery correctly, if you push on the battery without pushing the button, the battery goes off.

- BIG HARDWARE ISSUE : the PL mount doesn’t hold tight enough the lenses, the tightening system stuck before the lens hold correctly in place and it move arround.

RESOLVED with firmware update (from 4.4 to 4.5) : - HARDWARE ISSUE : The EVF sensor to put the EVF in sleep mode is really too sensitive and turn off all the time when shooting in daylight. I had to put a tape on it to prevent it to go in slepode while I’m shooting.
What the point to have a “power saver” sensor if we have to disabled it... ?

- SMALL SOFTWARE ISSUE : the « display » button on the EVF is acting really strange because it make appear data that overlay with the existing data on screen and show framelines that can’t be desactivated or set. (And the framelines doesn’t appear on the side screen, only the EVF !). And we noticed that the color temperature displayed on screen with this « disp » button is approximative and not as accurate as the status infos. So what the hell the setting assimilated to this button is useful in any way ?

- SOFTWARE MISSING : No way to go less than 12fps ? no way to shoot 2:1, 1:1 or any custom aspect ratio ? Is it a "PRO" camera with a "consumer" software ?


So what is your opinion ?
Thanks a lot !

PS : my reseller already sent this information to BMD since 10 days but no answer for now.
Last edited by Quentin Devillers on Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tim Schumann

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Re: So many issues with URSA Mini Pro 4,6k...

PostThu Nov 02, 2017 11:22 pm

V-Lock plate
If you are having issues with your VLock plate please contact your reseller or support. There is also a three stud Gold mount battery plate that we offer and 3rd parties such as IDX and Anton Bauer offer their own branded VLock and Gold mount battery plates pre-terminated for URSA cameras as well.

PL mount
What you have mentioned about the PL mount is not a common issue at all, in fact it is the first I have heard of what you are describing. We have had very few issues with the URSA Mini PL mount over the years so please contact support, they can have a look at it for you.

EVF Proximity sensor
The EVF sensor sensitivity that you are talking about was fixed in our Software 4.0 general release update. This has been available on our website for quite some time. Download the latest 4.5 update from our support site, install it and plug into your Viewfinder while running our Blackmagic Camera Setup application and it will help you update to the latest software for the Viewfinder.

EVF Display button
This button can be programmed as a function button to toggle many things. Once you have downloaded the software update and flashed the Viewfinder you can use the Shortcuts section in the menu to set it as a custom function button. The details for this are all explained in the URSA Mini manual which you will get when you have installed our 4.5 software update as per above.

Available frame rates and aspect ratios
The limitation in frame rates that you are talking about is a hardware limitation. It is not possible on the 4.6K sensor to run it at that rate. We offer multiple aspect ratios for you to shoot in based on industry standards. If you would like more options you can easily use Resolve, which you get a free copy of with the camera to render out clips to crop your picture area to 2:1 or 1:1 aspect ratios.

Hope this is of some assistance.
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostFri Nov 03, 2017 8:15 am

Thank you for your quick answer.
For you to know, My reseller already contacted support center 10days ago. Good to know that you’re quicker on the forum than the service support.

V-lock plate
So You’re advising people to not buy BMD v-lock battery... good to know.

PL mount
I understand this is an uncommon issue but when the support service will answer ?

EVF
My bad, I receive the camera 10days ago, I wrongly assumed that it was shipped with the last firmware version. I will update ASAP.

EVF display button
You’re not really answering my problem but lets see after the update...

Available frame rates and framlines.
Ok for the hardware limitation but not ok for the frame lines ! Do you imagine yourself shooting a movie you want to be in 2:1 (wich is a standard, lol at « house of card » just to name one). You propose to shoot in 16/9 then crop it in post ? This is really not a pro solution. That the first time I’m using BMD camera coming from Sony, Red and Arri and i’m very surprised of the limitation of à so called « pro » camera.
Can’t you think about an easy custom frameline system like Arri ?

I’m sorry to be a bit angry but I buy a camera to feel creative freedom, not to be restrain to what BMD assume as standard or not.

Thanks for your help !
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rick.lang

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Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostFri Nov 03, 2017 6:23 pm

Some additional observations:

It might be possible that the PL lens or shims are not quite seated properly before you tighten the PL mount lock. Don’t ask me to explain how I’ve managed to have that loose feeling, but put it down to my inexperience with a PL mount lens. But now I’m fine. I still use a lens support by the way for PL lenses over a kilogram.

In my opinion, you’ll soon appreciate the BMVF. Nice to be able to set the three buttons to the things you do most often plus the two programmable buttons on the 5” monitor.

Although 1:1 isn’t a supported aspect ratio, you can select the 6:5 ratio or 1.2:1 and that might be a good choice to either crop or leave as 1.2:1 just to have a different frame for artistic purposes.


Good luck with the new camera. It’ll grow on you.


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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSat Nov 11, 2017 11:56 pm

rick.lang wrote:Although 1:1 isn’t a supported aspect ratio, you can select the 6:5 ratio or 1.2:1 and that might be a good choice to either crop or leave as 1.2:1 just to have a different frame for artistic purposes.


I don't understand what is your solution...
I need to shoot a 50 days documentary in 2:1 format... should I forget about the blackmagic or there is a way to have a custom aspect ratio in camera ?

Thanks for your help !
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John Brawley

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 12, 2017 3:21 am

Quentin Devillers wrote:Ok for the hardware limitation but not ok for the frame lines ! Do you imagine yourself shooting a movie you want to be in 2:1 (wich is a standard, lol at « house of card » just to name one).


2:1 is also known as Universum, is a pretty obscure aspect ratio. RED have adopted it for convenience, last time I looked it's not an option on an Alexa. I wouldn't say a lot of shows have done it, the only movies really have been ones shot by it's creator, Vittorio Storaro ASC AIC and a few TV series, most famously the now cancelled House Of Cards, always on RED because their sensors favour the format.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univisium

JB
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JasonFinnigan

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 12, 2017 3:43 am

Quentin Devillers wrote:V-lock plate
So You’re advising people to not buy BMD v-lock battery... good to know.


No, He was letting you know if you don't like BMDs v lock plate there are other options. Would you rather they pretend like theirs is the only one?

I personally started out with third party ones but switched to BMD ones, The problem with a lot of the third party ones is the DTAP is on the same side as the BNC connectors so it's not usable. I've had no problems with the BMD vmount plates I've had
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 12, 2017 11:05 am

Quentin Devillers wrote:I don't understand what is your solution...
I need to shoot a 50 days documentary in 2:1 format... should I forget about the blackmagic or there is a way to have a custom aspect ratio in camera ?

Thanks for your help !


Quentin - I just don't understand your little rant here. What's the big deal of creating a 2:1 timeline in your editing suit? Any footage you drag into your timeline will automatically center and be cropped to 2:1 and as a plus you have a little wiggle room for vertical offsetting the framing if needed.
Data overhead from 16:9 to 2:1 native footage would be around 11%.

And in camera you can use the following trick with 2 possibilities:

A) Frame Guide set to 16:9 and Safe Area Guide set to 90% -> 1944px height of desired 1920px height
B) Frame Guide set to 1.85:1 and Safe Area Guide set to 95% -> 1970px height of desired 1920px height

I think that's close enough to 2:1 for framing your shots.

While I'll agree it would be nice to have user customize able frame guides I don't see it as a deal breaker.

And maybe you can point me to the technical data of the Arri Alexa where it can shoot native 2:1?
http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/camera ... ical_data/

Anyway - there is a nice tool for the Alexa to setup frame lines and guides:
http://frameline.tools

Would be cool if Blackmagic could support that as a file you can load into the camera.
Robert Niessner
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robert Hart

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 12, 2017 12:19 pm

Quentin.

In regard the PL-Mount. Could you clarify for me.

Is the PL-Mount lock-ring jamming before it turns?

Is the PL-Mount lock-ring turning its full distance to a stop and leaving the lens loose in the mount?

Is your PL-Mount lens original or does it use a PL-Mount adaptor.

Some PL-Mount adaptors have an incorrect fillet radius at the junction of the PL-Mount flange and the tail shoulder.) This causes the lens to ride slightly forward in the mount. The lock ring cannot turn fully and just nips the corners of the lugs. This means the lens is not secure and can be bumped out of its mount. If the owner loosens the limit screw in the clamp ring so that the ring can be backed off one full turn, then the re-tightens the limit screw, the clamp ring itself will not be able to rotate far enough to clamp the lens firmly.

Non-genuine V-Mount and AB-Mount batteries do not always conform to the genuine mounting systems and the conductor blocks holding the pins or the pins themselves may bed home and stop the battery from moving all the way into the mount so the latch levers can spring out. Are you using a third-party non-genuine battery?
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Stephen Press

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 12, 2017 6:06 pm

I have several different battery brands and while most fit perfectly to my BM V-loock mount the IDX brand batteries will not lock. I'm OK with that as lately I've been less than happy with the performance of the IDX batteries and am moving to only use them to power my LED lights.
Also be careful before buying the Tilta V-mount as the last one we used was pumping out enough RF interference to affect our soundies radio mics.
"A cameraman with out a camera is just a man"
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rick.lang

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 12, 2017 6:19 pm

Quentin Devillers wrote:
rick.lang wrote:Although 1:1 isn’t a supported aspect ratio, you can select the 6:5 ratio or 1.2:1 and that might be a good choice to either crop or leave as 1.2:1 just to have a different frame for artistic purposes.


I don't understand what is your solution...
I need to shoot a 50 days documentary in 2:1 format... should I forget about the blackmagic or there is a way to have a custom aspect ratio in camera ?

Thanks for your help !


Quentin, my comments about shooting the supported aspect ratio of 6:5 (or 1.2:1) were in response to your question in the original post asking if 2:1 or 1:1 aspect ratios were supported. The answer is “no” but I was offering a fairly economical way to get to 1:1 if you wanted that by cropping the supported 6:5 3072x2560 resolution.

It appears it’s really the 2:1 ratio that is your priority and that would need to be done in post by cropping the 4608x2592 (16:9) full sensor capture to 2:1 in post to 4608x2304 as others have mentioned. i think you can even use a frame guide for 4K DCI 4096x2304 so you check your framing of the vertical dimension accurately in camera while you record 4608x2304. A near perfect workaround that may satisfy this particular need.


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Jesse Widener

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostMon Nov 13, 2017 6:36 am

Interestingly, the wikipedia article John linked notes:

"Netflix production and post-production requirements state that they prefer content up to 2:1 aspect ratio anything wider must be evaluated and discussed."

...also Stranger Things is apparently shot at 2:1.

Looking at it, and re-watching the trailer for Jurassic World which was also shot 2:1, I still prefer scope...but interesting nonetheless.
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostWed Nov 15, 2017 11:51 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Quentin Devillers wrote:Ok for the hardware limitation but not ok for the frame lines ! Do you imagine yourself shooting a movie you want to be in 2:1 (wich is a standard, lol at « house of card » just to name one).


2:1 is also known as Universum, is a pretty obscure aspect ratio. RED have adopted it for convenience, last time I looked it's not an option on an Alexa. I wouldn't say a lot of shows have done it, the only movies really have been ones shot by it's creator, Vittorio Storaro ASC AIC and a few TV series, most famously the now cancelled House Of Cards, always on RED because their sensors favour the format.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univisium

JB



Hi, thanks for your input but if you dig a bit more, like Jesse Widener did, way more than you think is shooted in 2:1, and personnaly I use it a lot.
Also, look again on the Alexa side, you will found a world of possibilities ;-) (but with a price indeed)

cheers
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostWed Nov 15, 2017 11:55 pm

JasonFinnigan wrote:
Quentin Devillers wrote:V-lock plate
So You’re advising people to not buy BMD v-lock battery... good to know.


No, He was letting you know if you don't like BMDs v lock plate there are other options. Would you rather they pretend like theirs is the only one?

I personally started out with third party ones but switched to BMD ones, The problem with a lot of the third party ones is the DTAP is on the same side as the BNC connectors so it's not usable. I've had no problems with the BMD vmount plates I've had


Stephen Press wrote:I have several different battery brands and while most fit perfectly to my BM V-loock mount the IDX brand batteries will not lock. I'm OK with that as lately I've been less than happy with the performance of the IDX batteries and am moving to only use them to power my LED lights.
Also be careful before buying the Tilta V-mount as the last one we used was pumping out enough RF interference to affect our soundies radio mics.


In my opinion, a battery should be locked in position. if I can pull it off without pushing the button, it's a malfunction because it can make you lose your shot. So I just asking to BMD to tell me if it's a normal behavior of all their plate, and if so, refund me of the plate so I can use a other brand plate.

With a bit of tinkering you can put dtap wherever side you like.

I use state of art Beebop batteries.

Thanks !
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:08 am

Robert Niessner wrote:Quentin - I just don't understand your little rant here. What's the big deal of creating a 2:1 timeline in your editing suit? Any footage you drag into your timeline will automatically center and be cropped to 2:1 and as a plus you have a little wiggle room for vertical offsetting the framing if needed.
Data overhead from 16:9 to 2:1 native footage would be around 11%.

And in camera you can use the following trick with 2 possibilities:

A) Frame Guide set to 16:9 and Safe Area Guide set to 90% -> 1944px height of desired 1920px height
B) Frame Guide set to 1.85:1 and Safe Area Guide set to 95% -> 1970px height of desired 1920px height

I think that's close enough to 2:1 for framing your shots.

While I'll agree it would be nice to have user customize able frame guides I don't see it as a deal breaker.

And maybe you can point me to the technical data of the Arri Alexa where it can shoot native 2:1?
http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/camera ... ical_data/

Anyway - there is a nice tool for the Alexa to setup frame lines and guides:
http://frameline.tools

Would be cool if Blackmagic could support that as a file you can load into the camera.



I have absolutely no issue to tell the editor to crop in 2:1.
But one of the reason directors and producers still call me again for the next jobs is because I'm precise in my framing. So I can't shoot 16:9 if the final editing will be 2:1. just no way.
But your solution of the safety frame line is something interesting. Really not pro and disturbing to have the frame line on right and left side too... but something...

Alexa don't have "native" because there is this online frame tool !
I always have on me an USB stick with a dozen of framelines, presets and Luts so, anywhere on the world I can rent an Arri and it feel like it is mine in a minute ! This technology is rock solid and pretty simple isn't it ?

I find the UMP sensor amazing but I feel really upset that BMD call "pro" what it is in fact not... I don't think developping few more software capabilities to make it really pro would break the bank. speaking for me, I'm ready to pay double price for this sensor but without the rookie software with all this strange limitations...
It make me think of the difference between PC and Mac, PC you can do whatever the hell you like, Mac, you are consireded "stupid" so they put limitation to make it easier to use.
BMD "pro" camera should be a bit more PC than Mac...

Do you understand my point ?

I'm sad that a so small software limitation prevent me to use this camera on half of my projects.
The body, sensor and color science has the power of a fiction camera, but the software limit it to ENG and corporate.
Such a shame !!!

Cheers !
Last edited by Quentin Devillers on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:09 am

robert Hart wrote:Quentin.

In regard the PL-Mount. Could you clarify for me.

Is the PL-Mount lock-ring jamming before it turns?

Is the PL-Mount lock-ring turning its full distance to a stop and leaving the lens loose in the mount?

Is your PL-Mount lens original or does it use a PL-Mount adaptor.

Some PL-Mount adaptors have an incorrect fillet radius at the junction of the PL-Mount flange and the tail shoulder.) This causes the lens to ride slightly forward in the mount. The lock ring cannot turn fully and just nips the corners of the lugs. This means the lens is not secure and can be bumped out of its mount. If the owner loosens the limit screw in the clamp ring so that the ring can be backed off one full turn, then the re-tightens the limit screw, the clamp ring itself will not be able to rotate far enough to clamp the lens firmly.


Here is a link to video showing the battery and PL issue.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g6pqhgsqa4j1 ... t-Y8a?dl=0
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:14 am

rick.lang wrote:i think you can even use a frame guide for 4K DCI 4096x2304 so you check your framing of the vertical dimension accurately in camera while you record 4608x2304.


Thank you Rick ! looks good ! How do I import the frame guide in the camera ?

Cheers
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John Brawley

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:22 am

Quentin Devillers wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Quentin Devillers wrote:Ok for the hardware limitation but not ok for the frame lines ! Do you imagine yourself shooting a movie you want to be in 2:1 (wich is a standard, lol at « house of card » just to name one).


2:1 is also known as Universum, is a pretty obscure aspect ratio. RED have adopted it for convenience, last time I looked it's not an option on an Alexa. I wouldn't say a lot of shows have done it, the only movies really have been ones shot by it's creator, Vittorio Storaro ASC AIC and a few TV series, most famously the now cancelled House Of Cards, always on RED because their sensors favour the format.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univisium

JB



Hi, thanks for your input but if you dig a bit more, like Jesse Widener did, way more than you think is shooted in 2:1, and personnaly I use it a lot.
Also, look again on the Alexa side, you will found a world of possibilities ;-) (but with a price indeed)

cheers


Please do list what you think is “way more”

Stranger Things was listed in the wiki article.

As far as I know, RED is the only camera manufacture to list 2:1 as a frame guide / format.

I’m not against it as a format but let’s be realistic about how prevalent it is.

JB
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:31 am

John Brawley wrote:
Please do list what you think is “way more”

Stranger Things was listed in the wiki article.

As far as I know, RED is the only camera manufacture to list 2:1 as a frame guide / format.

I’m not against it as a format but let’s be realistic about how prevalent it is.

JB


Because thanks to this little tool : http://frameline.tools/ Arri camera has endless possibilities.
;-)

1:1 if you like... 1:37, you name it...

In the UMP you have choice between 2,35 , 2,39 and 2,40... but you don't have 2:1... must be a joke...
(I think they love scope at BMD ;-)
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John Brawley

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 12:47 am

Quentin Devillers wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Please do list what you think is “way more”

Stranger Things was listed in the wiki article.

As far as I know, RED is the only camera manufacture to list 2:1 as a frame guide / format.

I’m not against it as a format but let’s be realistic about how prevalent it is.

JB


Because thanks to this little tool : http://frameline.tools/ Arri camera has endless possibilities.
;-)



For frame lines, but not to record natively.

JB
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rick.lang

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostFri Nov 17, 2017 5:19 am

Quentin Devillers wrote:
rick.lang wrote:i think you can even use a frame guide for 4K DCI 4096x2304 so you check your framing of the vertical dimension accurately in camera while you record 4608x2304.


Thank you Rick ! looks good ! How do I import the frame guide in the camera ?

Cheers


The frame guide is one of the Menu / Monitor Settings on the URSA MIni Pro/4.6K so no need to import it.

When I record 16:9, I always use the 2.4:1 frame guide on the monitor as I like to frame for that aspect ratio and use it for my web deliverables. You could use it to accurately frame the vertical dimension as I mentioned. No more guess work.
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robert Hart

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSat Nov 18, 2017 10:33 am

Quentin.

I agree about the V-Mount and FHD6 battery combination. That would annoy the hell out of me. I cannot give you a solution for that problem. Maybe try your batteries on another V-Mount to see if that problem occurs.

On the example I examined, the latch has a very slight taper on the contact face. I assume this is to make it easier to release the latch in the case of a tight fitting battery when there might be a lot of friction pressure on the contact face.

I suspect that on the FHD6 battery, the latch of the V-Mount does not penetrate deeply into the space on the battery and just catches an edge. This is likely why the latch cams open when the battery is lifted. The latch edge on the battery may be too far from the latch in the plate or the latch in the plate may be incorrectly positioned.

Alternative manufacturers of non-genuine Sony V-Mount plates and non-genuine Sony V-Mount batteries may make their parts to function in the same ways but design them differently. There will be variation and certain combinations of non-genuine products may fail to function correctly.

There would be ways to make it work with a bit of filing and fitting but that of course is not the point. It either works or does not work from new.


The PL-Mount is interesting. The clamp ring is turning past the position it should have clamped upon the lugs of the lens. This is not correct. Removing the limit screw in the clamp ring may allow the clamp ring to turn a little more and clamp the lugs. I suspect it may rotate past and release the lens.

There are a few causes :-

The lugs of the PL-Mount tail on the back of the lens may be too thin. They must be exactly 2mm thick from front to rear, not any less and not any more.

The flange face on the PL-Mount receiver on the camera may be worn.

The lugs on the mount ring are not in correct relationship with the threads of the clamp ring.

The threads themselves may be worn.

The rear face of the lugs of the clamp ring may have become worn, may have been bent through overtightening or a very heavy unsupported lens being fitted.


To establish if the PL-Mount tail on the lens itself is at fault, try it on other cameras to see if the clamp ring tightens correctly. If it does, then the problem may be in the BM PL-Mount.


Some possible reasons as to cause.


The PL-Mount tail lug thickness may be incorrectly sized - less than 2mm exactly.

Testing the lens on a known good camera will soon tell you if the tail on the lens is at fault.

That Angenieux lens is of an age where it may not have been originally fitted with a PL-Mount tail. A custom PL-Mount tail may have been made for it and fitted. As fitted by a camera technician it should have been fine. It may have been interfered with since if it was sold and fitted by a new owner to a different camera. Used lenses often have an uncertain history and are sometimes on-sold if they have become troublesome.

A PL-Mount adaptor may have been fitted on to an ARRI Standard or ARRI B mount lens tail. PL-Mount adaptors generally have a recess in the face to correctly position the flange face of the ARRI Standard or ARRI B Mounts. There arrears to be no front recess in the PL-Mount tail on your lens. The PL-Mount tail on your lens appears to be an original PL-Mount tail or a custom PL-Mount tail fitted later. The lens likely was collimated correctly to a particular camera at the time.

If on another camera, the flange face of your Angenieux lens has been too far forward to permit infinity focus, someone may have attempted to move the lens rearwards into collimation by skimming material off the rear ( flange ) face of the PL-Mount tail on the lens. This is a common error by machinists unfamiliar with PL-Mounts and with lens work. This would make the lugs too thin and allow the matching lugs on the clamp ring to rotate too far like yours does.

The correct method is to replace shims which should have been fitted between the PL-Mount tail and the body of the lens where the PL-Mount tail is attached. If there were no shims, then the face inside the PL-Mount mount tail itself should have been skimmed to enable the lens body to be moved rearwards in the PL-Mount tail and if necessary, shims added to make the adjustment correct.


If the Blackmagic PL-Mount is faulty, then trying another PL-Mount lens known to be good on other cameras will soon tell you. There is no available fix for the Blackmagic PL-Mount receiver. It is an assembly of two main components which cannot be altered.


A bad workaround may be to cut a 0.05mm thick shim washer to fit between the flange faces of the lens tail and the mount receiver and slip it over the shoulder of the tail, test first to see if it works and secure it with three pinhead-sized dabs of super-glue to the rear flange face of the lens tail.

This will not be a satisfactory arrangement because the shim itself will be easily damaged in normal use. The collimation of the lens relative to the image plane of the camera may be altered forward of infinity focus. The lugs themselves will remain in 0.05mm clearance of the the PL-Mount receiver face, therefore the lens may be able to be forced off axis by focus and zoom movements due to very slight bending compliance.


One final question. Have you ever removed the clamp ring entirely from the PL-Mount receiver or is it possible someone else has? It is possible for the clamp ring to be reinstalled on the threads in an incorrect starting position.


Please forgive my complicated wordstuff.
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Tommaso Alvisi

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSat Nov 18, 2017 10:51 am

I'm with Quentin on this...

1) The BM V-Lock plate is designed in a way that is relatively loose with many batts...
My IDX plates (China made nowadays too) are basically perfect with every single one out there...

2) The PL Mount on the UM can be improved too...it appears to be not very "flexible"...the only lenses that fit well are the usual lens sets...only when 100% up to spec. So it's not really a fault here...BUT around the world there are many exotic lenses and I had some instances where an adapted lens would work on other cameras PL Mounts but not in the UM one...also it's clamping "feels" less secure...it's difficult to explain...I mean it needs more force to be clamped well and less force to open it, try it VS other mounts.
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 19, 2017 5:18 pm

Thanks guys for your inputs and support.

The BMD support don't want to refund me the battery plate because, the loose battery system is intentional.
good to know, maybe BMD should advertise a bit more on that side.
"BMD battery plate, the fist plate you can remove the battery without the latch !"
I'm not sure they will sell a lot anymore if they do...

I already used this lens on Red and Arri camera without any trouble.
So my old PL mount may be thinner indeed, but the BMD camera is the first to have a problem with it.

I guess BMD people are good science color engineers, but no good at R&D including real DOP.

Anyway, I bought a bunch of BMD products over the past 8 years, and except for Resolve, I've ALWAYS been disapointed... so I guess it's my bad to believe in the "pro" advertising of the Ursa.

I'm still complaining, but again, color science wise, this camera do his job really well.
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 19, 2017 5:35 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Quentin Devillers wrote:
John Brawley wrote:
Please do list what you think is “way more”

Stranger Things was listed in the wiki article.

As far as I know, RED is the only camera manufacture to list 2:1 as a frame guide / format.

I’m not against it as a format but let’s be realistic about how prevalent it is.

JB


Because thanks to this little tool : http://frameline.tools/ Arri camera has endless possibilities.
;-)



For frame lines, but not to record natively.

JB


Hi !
Except Red wich has a lot of natively recorded format to keep up the speed of the processor and framerates, most camera never record natively in every format out there.

FYI Mindhunter, the last big TV show from Netflix, with Fincher in board, is shot in 2,20:1...
My point is, there is no rules in term of format. But BMD is making rules for a PRO camera, and I feel trapped.

Cheers
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John Brawley

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostSun Nov 19, 2017 7:19 pm

Quentin Devillers wrote:Hi !
Except Red wich has a lot of natively recorded format to keep up the speed of the processor and framerates, most camera never record natively in every format out there.

FYI Mindhunter, the last big TV show from Netflix, with Fincher in board, is shot in 2,20:1...
My point is, there is no rules in term of format. But BMD is making rules for a PRO camera, and I feel trapped.

Cheers


Quentin,

I'm not against 2:1.

In the very first link I first posted, Mindhunter was listed. I'm not unaware of the productions that have made use of it.

It's just not that common a format, demonstrated by the fact that only one camera shoots it natively (that I know of) and you have to use a custom tool that's also rarely used to generate a frame line for it on the other widely used camera.

Of course it would be nice to have the option but it's not that difficult to work around and you can easily put in a feature request. This is the kind that's easy to do.

JB
John Brawley
Cinematographer
Atlanta
Georgia
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Quentin Devillers

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostMon Nov 20, 2017 1:33 pm

John Brawley wrote:
Quentin Devillers wrote:Hi !
Except Red wich has a lot of natively recorded format to keep up the speed of the processor and framerates, most camera never record natively in every format out there.

FYI Mindhunter, the last big TV show from Netflix, with Fincher in board, is shot in 2,20:1...
My point is, there is no rules in term of format. But BMD is making rules for a PRO camera, and I feel trapped.

Cheers


Quentin,

I'm not against 2:1.

In the very first link I first posted, Mindhunter was listed. I'm not unaware of the productions that have made use of it.

It's just not that common a format, demonstrated by the fact that only one camera shoots it natively (that I know of) and you have to use a custom tool that's also rarely used to generate a frame line for it on the other widely used camera.

Of course it would be nice to have the option but it's not that difficult to work around and you can easily put in a feature request. This is the kind that's easy to do.

JB



Oh I like the feature request thing ! Is there an official way of doing it ?

Just to clarify, this is not a question of native recording format but more of a frame line format possibilities.
Thé BMD camera are the only one that I know to not have a custom Frameline option. And i’ve worked with Arri, Red, Sony and Panasonic camera.
The non abilitiy to have custom frame line put the Ursa in the DSLR category. Definitely not pro.

Thanks !
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Tommaso Alvisi

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Re: Five issues with URSA Mini 4.6K

PostMon Nov 20, 2017 3:57 pm

Quentin Devillers wrote:The non abilitiy to have custom frame line put the Ursa in the DSLR category. Definitely not pro.


I agree 100% with Quentin!

Custom framelines is a must!!!!

I'd add custom de-squeeze and custom scaling but I'll restrain myself since I know it's quite a demanding task for the ASICs.

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