Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

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GeorgeLadner

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Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 16, 2017 4:22 pm

Looking at the Blackmagic Camera Setup 4.7 update.

The below points are interesting

Improved sensor exposure sensitivity by 2 stops.
Added new gain setting range which now goes from -12dB to +12dB. ATEM will need a new software update to access these new ranges via Blackmagic SDI Control Protocol.
Added RAW SDI output feature. Refer to the user manual for information about capturing and unpacking RAW SDI video.


If i interpret this what i see is
1. 13 stops of dynamic range
2. 4k Raw output thru SDI

Which sounds more or less like pocket 2 to me.

With a little bigger sensor size than the 1080 pocket, when added with speedbooster and a little better crop factor, this is a nice movie camera.

Is my assumption right?

Any opinion from Blackmagic staff :)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSat Nov 18, 2017 6:44 am

Yes, I have been pointing this out since the Micro Studio came out. Even it’s Rec 709 video out is great.
cherts
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Greg Lee

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSat Nov 18, 2017 7:23 pm

I can't wait to see the RAW output of the Micro Studio, and if it gives more dynamic range...

C'mon Micro Studio owners! ;)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSun Nov 19, 2017 1:57 am

You are going to have to wait Greg, there is no way to use the Micro Studio 4K Raw files, until a software developer takes this in hand or Resolve is upgraded to do this.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Howard Roll

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostMon Nov 20, 2017 7:43 am

It's kind of misleading. The sensor didn't magically become 2 stops more sensitive they just shifted the native ISO up the scale at the cost of noise. The dynamic range is virtually identical. What will happen with the raw output at this point in time is anyones guess.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostMon Nov 20, 2017 1:05 pm

Why don't they just put full controls in VA 4k to control this head, and lens? Make for a good combination, even if you needed a physical control module struck on the VA.

I would have liked to see this head do 4kp50.
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Marc LaFunk

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostMon Nov 20, 2017 2:54 pm

I would love to see a BMPCC II with 4K internal RAW recording, I’ve asked about it on IBC 2017, one of the BM representatives said, quote “It is not possible yet to achieve such a big bit depth (RAW) in 4k in such a small form factor at this point, if it was we would have done it”.

I’m afraid that we need to wait a bit longer when there are better technical possibilities to achieve this…
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostTue Nov 21, 2017 1:02 am

Denny Smith wrote:Yes, I have been pointing this out since the Micro Studio came out. Even it’s Rec 709 video out is great.
cherts



I love the look of the UM but have been hoping for a smaller form factor 4k for some of our work. I've been thinking about the BMMSC with the 7" VA and was wondering how it looks in 4k ProRes HQ.
Obviously not the same DR but how about colors?

Any thoughts on this vs BMPC IQ?
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 9:49 am

Marc LaFunk wrote:I would love to see a BMPCC II with 4K internal RAW recording, I’ve asked about it on IBC 2017, one of the BM representatives said, quote “It is not possible yet to achieve such a big bit depth (RAW) in 4k in such a small form factor at this point, if it was we would have done it”.

I’m afraid that we need to wait a bit longer when there are better technical possibilities to achieve this…


That doesn't make sense except if he is saying, that the smaller sensors usually only go to 10 or 12 bit depth, not 14-16 bits, as bit depth has nothing much to do with being Bayer. They have already put raw out on the microstudio, so obviously Raw is doable in that form factor. What were you asking him Marc?

See my post in the other thread. There has been an 14 stop, 14mp at 60 or 80fps 1 inch sensor from the people that make the 4k micro studio sensor since 2013, and was used in the Sony RX100. It is a more advanced form of the sensor in the studio. Pretty much what we wanted in pre dragon, helium days, in a pocket. If there is a hdr mode past 14 stops, then it still is. Hint. But the latest 1 inch sensor Sony uses is cream. From what seems to be the studio's sensor, it is 60fps full frame capable, and if it also has suitable hdr video mode for sports or ENG quality, it would be great to use it. But maybe it is a 30fps version, but it probably doesn't have the SDI capacity for it, or the processing circuit inside doesn't.

Unlike the other sensors used, the Aptina technology, is lower heat, and licensed to Sony.

The problem you do get, is trying to use fpgas, they run hotter, and on 4kp60 hotter again. But an ambarella chip runs cool and can give you higher than 200mb/s 10 bit (useful in ENG) and 8k at whatever. That would have be useful in the microstudio head, and otherwise hook up to a recorder for cinema and raw.

I would guess the new Sony sensor is at dragon or helium level with 16 stops plus DR.

So, yes we could have a pocket cinema camera now, even as a mass market still at $699-$999, but with 200-300mb/s 10-12 bit 4:2:2 h264 4kp50/60, and uncompressed 4:2:2/Raw out to a recorder or direct to disk interface. Maybe even 24/25fps raw recording, and 30-60fps 4:2:2 ProRes of some low data rate. With 14+ stops, better low light, and just be better than what we have at the moment.

But whatever is coming next April, is likely already set.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 9:52 am

Turns out that according to the studio's product page, you can change camera settings in the relevant VA
Already (but not lens). Can anybody comment on this, because I've been told it doesn't?

Thanks.
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Marc LaFunk

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 1:32 pm

Hey Wayne,

Wayne Steven wrote:That doesn't make sense except if he is saying, that the smaller sensors usually only go to 10 or 12 bit depth, not 14-16 bits, as bit depth has nothing much to do with being Bayer. They have already put raw out on the microstudio, so obviously Raw is doable in that form factor.


Firstly, sorry you are right, I was referring to 12bit, but because I was talking about the BMPCC, same as I did with the rep., I thought people knew I was referring to 12bit.
He didn’t say anything about increasing the bit depth, maybe they want to, but he didn’t mention anything about it to me.

Secondly, I’m not the most technical person of internal camera components, I know the basics of what is needed to make them and how a camera internally works but I never opent up a digital camera, only analog ones, so bare that in mind reading my post.

Wayne Steven wrote:What were you asking him Marc?


I asked him about a BMPCC II and if they where planning anything, cause there where rumours on the IBC floor that BM maybe would announce it there. But those rumours, looking in hinesite, where probably more based on hope then actual information/leaks.

Anyway, what he told me is that having a similar form factor, as the first BMPCC, it was not possible to do everything in camera right now. He told me, and again I’m not the most technical person, that it would have big heating issues at this point cause of the internals being in such a small form factor, and by that, so close on top of each other, and that would cause for problems.

With the quote, “if it was we would have done it”, I think they are working on it. Maybe they where closer to it at that point then he wanted to mention, I don’t know, but that’s what he said and what we talked about.

I also told him that it wouldn’t be a terrible option to make it a bit bigger so there are better cooling possibilities, not to big off course cause that defeats the purpose. And like every BM rep. they always write down the advice and findings of the customer, so he did as well.

Wayne Steven wrote:There has been an 14 stop, 14mp at 60 or 80fps 1 inch sensor from the people that make the 4k micro studio sensor since 2013


So it’s not only about the sensor to make a camera in such a small form factor work, and yes, if they take some of these internals out, like the screen and the recoding medium, like with the BMMSC, where the battery is hanging on the outside as well, then heating issues would reduce enormously, but then it wouldn’t be a BMPCC II anymore IMO. Cause that is, for me at least, still the charm of the original BMPCC form factor/system.
Having a relatively small mirrorless camera combined with a small native MFT lens makes filming in some situations a lot easier, be it if you don’t want to be noticed cause you don’t have the permit to film, or be it cause the situation asks for a fly on the wall approach.
And in other situations you can use it as a sort of standalone sensor and can build it out/customise it to your needs and/or the situations and implement your shooting style around the camera.

Wayne Steven wrote:But whatever is coming next April, is likely already set.


Already looking forward to it, and I hope this answers your question Wayne

PS: I don’t know and I can only guess cause the rep didn’t say anything about it, but “I think” they probably also want to do more frames in 4K 12bit. But maybe that’s more hope then thinking from my side ;)
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Denny Smith

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 5:50 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:Turns out that according to the studio's product page, you can change camera settings in the relevant VA
Already (but not lens). Can anybody comment on this, because I've been told it doesn't?
Thanks.


Wayne, if you are referring to this:
The built in row of buttons along the front of the camera gives you quick and easy access to power, menu navigation and settings. Because they’re on the front, the buttons are always accessible, even when rigged into tight locations. Simply plug into any HDMI display such as a TV or the portable Blackmagic Video Assist so you can see the camera’s menus and you can easily change any of the camera’s settings. You can use the menus to set the camera up and then that allows the switcher to take control of the camera via the SDI program input.


Then You are misreading (along with a lot of others), what the copy writer is trying to say, you can use the camera menu buttons, with the camera’s menu system displayed to change camera settings — not with the VA’s menu or touch screen. However, Using the VA touch screen to change camera settings would be grand, but not available at this point in time.
Cheers
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 9:06 pm

It would be the holy grail of options for either Micro.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 10:44 pm

Marc LaFunk wrote:Hey Wayne,

Wayne Steven wrote:That doesn't make sense except if he is saying, that the smaller sensors usually only go to 10 or 12 bit depth, not 14-16 bits, as bit depth has nothing much to do with being Bayer. They have already put raw out on the microstudio, so obviously Raw is doable in that form factor.


Firstly, sorry you are right, I was referring to 12bit, but because I was talking about the BMPCC, same as I did with the rep., I thought people knew I was referring to 12bit.
He didn’t say anything about increasing the bit depth, maybe they want to, but he didn’t mention anything about it to me.

Secondly, I’m not the most technical person of internal camera components, I know the basics of what is needed to make them and how a camera internally works but I never opent up a digital camera, only analog ones, so bare that in mind reading my post.

Wayne Steven wrote:What were you asking him Marc?


I asked him about a BMPCC II and if they where planning anything, cause there where rumours on the IBC floor that BM maybe would announce it there. But those rumours, looking in hinesite, where probably more based on hope then actual information/leaks.

Anyway, what he told me is that having a similar form factor, as the first BMPCC, it was not possible to do everything in camera right now. He told me, and again I’m not the most technical person, that it would have big heating issues at this point cause of the internals being in such a small form factor, and by that, so close on top of each other, and that would cause for problems.

With the quote, “if it was we would have done it”, I think they are working on it. Maybe they where closer to it at that point then he wanted to mention, I don’t know, but that’s what he said and what we talked about.

I also told him that it wouldn’t be a terrible option to make it a bit bigger so there are better cooling possibilities, not to big off course cause that defeats the purpose. And like every BM rep. they always write down the advice and findings of the customer, so he did as well.

Wayne Steven wrote:There has been an 14 stop, 14mp at 60 or 80fps 1 inch sensor from the people that make the 4k micro studio sensor since 2013


So it’s not only about the sensor to make a camera in such a small form factor work, and yes, if they take some of these internals out, like the screen and the recoding medium, like with the BMMSC, where the battery is hanging on the outside as well, then heating issues would reduce enormously, but then it wouldn’t be a BMPCC II anymore IMO. Cause that is, for me at least, still the charm of the original BMPCC form factor/system.
Having a relatively small mirrorless camera combined with a small native MFT lens makes filming in some situations a lot easier, be it if you don’t want to be noticed cause you don’t have the permit to film, or be it cause the situation asks for a fly on the wall approach.
And in other situations you can use it as a sort of standalone sensor and can build it out/customise it to your needs and/or the situations and implement your shooting style around the camera.

Wayne Steven wrote:But whatever is coming next April, is likely already set.


Already looking forward to it, and I hope this answers your question Wayne

PS: I don’t know and I can only guess cause the rep didn’t say anything about it, but “I think” they probably also want to do more frames in 4K 12bit. But maybe that’s more hope then thinking from my side ;)


Well, the thing you can take away from what I said, is if you have the right low heat sensor and processing technology, you cannot it. Most cameras pull raw off and likely these days at at least 10 bits, some 12 bits and at video rates, nothing special there, even a good phone would. The issue is processing it. Straight uncompressed there is not much processing just moving data, but those amounts of data are too much presently, so compression is usually used, and this is a lot of processing. Comoression requires a lot of tricks and brute force.

Now, you did say, he did mention "bit depth" as his objection to producing a smaller camera. Indeed, above 12 bits there would be a lot less sensor choices, and at the low end a lot less again. But it's only a pocket, so 12 bits is fine enough for 10 bit her. But maybe they have bigger plans 1. Maybe a high quality studio like head for top end use (requiring 14-16 bits and no cheap low heat sensor). 2. maybe they want to a high end product innsnsll form factor to replace the 4k mini. 3. The sensor tech they have is not aimed at low heat.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 10:56 pm

Denny Smith wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:Turns out that according to the studio's product page, you can change camera settings in the relevant VA
Already (but not lens). Can anybody comment on this, because I've been told it doesn't?
Thanks.


Wayne, if you are referring to this:
The built in row of buttons along the front of the camera gives you quick and easy access to power, menu navigation and settings. Because they’re on the front, the buttons are always accessible, even when rigged into tight locations. Simply plug into any HDMI display such as a TV or the portable Blackmagic Video Assist so you can see the camera’s menus and you can easily change any of the camera’s settings. You can use the menus to set the camera up and then that allows the switcher to take control of the camera via the SDI program input.


Then You are misreading (along with a lot of others), what the copy writer is trying to say, you can use the camera menu buttons, with the camera’s menu system displayed to change camera settings — not with the VA’s menu or touch screen. However, Using the VA touch screen to change camera settings would be grand, but not available at this point in time.
Cheers


Yep, that's it, I'm misreading it. Sorry. Thanks Denny. My reading was going sideways between the buttons bit and the rest, I thought they were talking about two different things, and were talking about the same ability as a switcher being able to set camera settings mentioned in it. I thought it was strange having a switcher control the lens as well, but leaving it out on a VA, seems the VA just misses out completely.

Now, there is a firmware update, including the switcher camera and lens control, for the 4k VA, including hdmi packed raw 4kp50/60 recording and using SDI input for monitoring. Would make life a lot more interesting, but too close in price to the mini 4k. But these products should just be upgraded to new products.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 11:03 pm

I've discovered the delete post "X" at the top of last post, to delete a double post. The forum software is a bit awkward and difficult.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 11:17 pm

Still, they could simply release a camera module from a mobile phone with lens, controllable through the VA 4k, to stick on the front of the VA. That would be fun. What they say would require is firmware up grade, a interface and command controller to sdi (or conversely HDMI, with SDI control and monitoring) module with power (there might even be one onnthe market) to plug in any compatible mobile camera module (like the one on the latest LG). If only the VA 4k could handle the data streams of two twin lens modules at once, you could setup 4 point 3D shooting. But there is the rub, the modules are likely outputting well over 4k frames, and something is also needed to knock it down to 4k before VA could even record one stream. :(
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 23, 2017 11:32 pm

Maybe BM, should get together with a phone company to produce a BM edition Pro Phone. Like Leica does. LG maybe. With 4-9 lens camera system, for perfect Bokeh and post focusing 3D computational photography. The NVIDIA Xavia based Jetson credit card sized (but thicker) platform is perfect for this. Even other cheaper. Using top quality small sensors. That's a $600-$1000 phone ($600 if you use a cheaper 4 lens sensor system). LG is pushing camera features. Hybrid liquid lens can deliver good qualities (though Samsung has a pure liquid one now).

Cineform, which is aimed at lighter processing, is now available opensourced and the raw Bayer version for $20 a device under the vc-5 standard. Even if the phone merely had an interface to an external recorder. 6:1 Cineform Raw and 10:1 4:2:2 should be usable.

Just thoughts, carry on.
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Marc LaFunk

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostFri Nov 24, 2017 6:48 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:Now, you did say, he did mention "bit depth" as his objection to producing a smaller camera.


I already quoted what he said: “It is not possible yet to achieve such a big bit depth in 4k in such a small form factor at this point, if it was we would have done it”.

You should assume he’s talking about 12bit cause we where talking about the BMPCC and he didn’t mention anything about cranking the bit depth with a Mk II, that’s IMO also not necessary.

So yes, that is what he mentioned to me, and we where specifically talking about a BMPCC II, not just any small form factor.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSat Nov 25, 2017 3:43 pm

That's what I was referring too. So, the 12 bit might not be possible on that system.

As I said, only some senors can do 12 bits on the consumer ( on larger sensors I would have to look).

The consumer spec for hdr is upto 12 bits, 10 bits for lesser her, but I would prefer an extra 2 bits for post, as we do with 10 bits for 8 bit video. So, 12 bits is for 10 bit delivery or careful lighting for 12, sort of thing. Frankly I would prefer 4 bits extra, but this is only a base pro camera.
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Chris Chiasson

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSat Nov 25, 2017 4:58 pm

I think they should just go the Micro route. Just use that build, and improve on that. Add 4K. Add the ability to control by blutooth, and better yet, control with an external monitor like the VA. Bring back Global Shutter. Add some manual control on the back of the device as well as the front. A USB-C 3.2 port, HDMI 2.1, maybe even some weather proofing, and you'd have a great camera that's a mix between a GH5 and Go Pro. Even at $1500 that would sell. Call it the Ursa Micro.
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSat Nov 25, 2017 6:25 pm

Put a damn focus peaking button on it.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSat Nov 25, 2017 8:15 pm

Jim, you need an external monitor with the Micro anyway, and most camera monitors today have better Focus Aids/Peaking options than the camera generated one, the most monitors, including the VA, Focus peaking is easy to turn on and off. The Pocket Camera had a Focus peaking button, because it had its own monitor.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostSun Nov 26, 2017 10:11 pm

Of course I know this Denny - we have lot's of external monitors. But I don't agree with you on the peaking - the BM peaking is great and better than many implementations. I'm not alone in comments in the frustration that on the Micro Cinema there isn't a way to access something so commonly used - even with something like the One Litle Goat.

Regarding the Micro Studio implementation I actually sent you a PM a few days ago about it. DId you get that?
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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostMon Nov 27, 2017 6:40 am

PM sent. Also, there is a way to toggle Focus peaking on/off when overlays are off. I can not find the reference, but will post it when I do.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostMon Nov 27, 2017 12:55 pm

Why wasn't the micro at least, designed as a fullcamera. How much would it have cost them to put a detachable LCD and light good on the back, $40? I think that was an opportunity missed. Requiring that you buy a VA to make it a full camera, was just not helpful for buying it. It is a $499 product to me. It would then be like a real pocket 3, which is probably what they liked to have it. But what about a $400 4kp50/60 10 bit + hdr rec 2020 4:2:2 GoPro/pov head, mobile phone alternative, like product based on a dual lens mobile phone module, or two rows of them?

Seriously, somebody is going realised they can make a Raspberry PI or Arduino into a cheap production camera one day, and it's going be all over. Maybe somebody that does cameras for these platforms, is eager to do something, hint. You might as well beat them to it.
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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostMon Nov 27, 2017 11:46 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:It is a $499 product to me.

I love how people just throw these number about. Go on, off you go, no one is stopping you from making your $499 camera. Let us know when it's done. Maybe we can then tell you it's just a $299 camera to us.
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Greg Lee

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 1:57 am

I LOVE Blackmagic (and my Pocket) but it IS crazy talk that the Micro and Pocket are the same price as the day they were introduced many years ago. What's interesting is that it's not like Blackmagic never readjusts prices - the URSA, URSA Mini and Ursa Mini Pro have all had price reductions. Heck, even Resolve has gotten much cheaper...

But not so with the Pocket or Micro. There must be some logic to it, but it's odd.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 2:36 am

He, he, got to love it when people that know nothing tell people that know something they know nothing. Just go and get the old cameras using this sensor tech and change their HDMI to uncompressed out. Maybe you will find some of the "5" year old cameras discounted to your $299 you want. Maybe you will find an nearly 2 decade old Canon mini-dv camera for $9995 dollars it was.

Oh, that's right, we weren't talking about the micro studio 4k, ware talking about something even more basic sensor wise. Hmm you got me there, there really isn't much years ago with that internal compression engine, except the passage of time, the progress of technology and the real value of parts in how it could be done at that price. But knowing as much as you do about these things, you consider others wrong. Let BM have a go. I'll gladly support one with 14 bits plus use as a good product for under $1000AU, or at least till something better comes. Time for the 4k replacement.

Tristan Pemberton wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:It is a $499 product to me.

I love how people just throw these number about. Go on, off you go, no one is stopping you from making your $499 camera. Let us know when it's done. Maybe we can then tell you it's just a $299 camera to us.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 3:26 am

ThenMicro is only two years old, came out around when the first Ursa Mini was introduced. But, the Pocket has been around for a long time, and sales must still be good, or the price would have gone down.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 7:38 am

Lack of competition. I think they were expecting a 4k pocket instead of the micro, and it's been two years. The 4k pocket and the 4k mini, are cross competitive.
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Greg Lee

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 5:51 pm

Agreed, I see no way they release a 4K pocket now even if they could. We'll have to wait for the Ursa Mini to go 6K first to avoid cannibalizing sales.
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Marc LaFunk

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 6:01 pm

I would already be happy if they bring out a BMPCC II that can shoot 2.5K if I’m honest. Just having a bit more res for stabilization in post and/or recomp would be nice for delivering in 1080p.

So BM reps/administrators, when you reading this, 2.5K would be a option as well if you don’t want any competition with the URSA Mini’s, at least that would be for me


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Denny Smith

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 6:13 pm

Marc, BM has already stated, no more 2K (including 2.5K) camera’s at last years NAB. Their next small camera will have to be 4K or higher in resolution. The market has moved past 2K, a few of us have been left behind in this regard. The Pocket and. I do Cinema camera’s are the last new 2K camera’s for BM, and still must be selling enough to warrant them not being discontinued. Once a 4K replacement is developed and released, they may be gone too...

Greg, Not necessarily, Panasonic relaxed its EVA1 as a small supplemental camera option to their Varicam, without worrying about loosing sales on the much more expensive Varicam. BM would be in a similar position, with a smaller 4K camers to supplement (not replace) a Ursa Mini. The Pocket camers is not going to have the features that the auto supoorts, like under/over cranking at a fixed project rate, for example.

When the 2K Pocket was released following the BMCC 2.5K camers, thrnPocket was not in direct competition with the larger Cinema Camera, and the two cut in with each other nicely. Since the big Ursa is no longer available, the UM is the “big” camera, and BM needs a small 4K camers to supplement it for action shots or gimbal work, not available or easily done with a UM. The Panny Eva1 is smaller and lighter than the UM, so BM needs to come up with a smaller yet, but high IQ 4K camera.
Cheers

We will have to wait and see what the new year brings...
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Jim Giberti

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 7:42 pm

It's funny but wating for the small 4k Cinema camera from BM is a little part of my business plan. I think the HD image from BM is one of the best in the biz and all our client work requires for now (broadcast/cable/web.)

I've tried small 4K options in the past couple of years, Panasonic and Sony specifically, and genuinely tried to like them because of their great features and interfaces but I'm just hooked on the BM IQ. And even in 4k they just didn't compare, especially in post.

In the meantime I've talked with Denny about his experience with the BMMSC and that may be another option.

Either way, when BM realeases a 4k Pocket/Micro they've got at least one customer who's waiting patiently.
Last edited by Jim Giberti on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 9:53 pm

Or two...
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 1:52 pm

Or three.

People don't realise just how little you need to do something. They harp on about this and that, yet somebody comes out below their spec and does something.

It is true, the market has moved on from 2k as the high end spec, and now they want to move onto 8k before the 16k+ Holo specs. It's not rediculos as 4k gives you some still frame capability, and good downresing to 2k, 8k will give you good photo resolution, and good downresing to 4k and 2k.

When we get up towards 180 degree screens (like vr) we will be greatfull for at least 8k. 2k will look woeful. Photography has used beyond 8k too. But for us, 8k is a logical final step in the flat image taking. So, yeah, 4k and past the mustard.

Guys, the 4k mini should have been taken out and staked when the 4.6k came out. They could then have introduced something lower end, like a $2kau smaller camera 4kp50/60, based on a chip like in the microstudio, but with the 14th stop dynamic range.
The full HD micro underneath it.

I won't buy a mini 4k for a few reasons, one I regard it as hot and complex bound to be outdated and break down before 10 years and cost to maintain and repair. Two, it is not anywhere near my minimum spec for the price. The spec has been going up year by year until it gets to helium territory. At the moment it is around Alexa and the 4.6k's range. The 4kmini spec is like a $1000Au-$2000Au range. A new pocket 4kp50/60 14 stop native around $1000Au-$1500Au.

BM really dodged a machine gun when craft folded. It may not have been much better, but snazzy, and cheaper. People could have gone for it like lemmings. A number of cheap (pocket/action cam) Asian manufactures could make a nocked down professional cameras whenever. At that time, you don't want pricy stuff, but value for money quality.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: Is pocket 2 on the way or already there?

PostThu Nov 30, 2017 2:12 pm

Have a look at what this 4kp60 action camera does without even trying to be professional, using an old small sensor:


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