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insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:17 am
by James Harkness

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:51 am
by Keith Babineaux
James Harkness wrote:https://www.amazon.ca/CFAST-eSATA-DATA-Breakout-Cable/dp/B012B6HIA0/ref=pd_sbs_147_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=D4WZQAN97HC31JVQ5K5K

https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-Exte ... EMQR1&th=1

with an ssd? what do you guys think would it work?


It works! I've been using this setup for a year. I was able to record 4.6K raw, 3:1 and 4:1 raw at 24fps using Sandisk Ultra II SSD cards. The only problem is that you can't close the LCD door and you have the wires from the Cfast and power adapter in the way. If the camera is stationary on a tripod, you'll be ok. I never tried to record 60fps. I recently purchased this SSD adapter from ebay. If you follow the link below, you will see it. I'm the first and only person to purchased it so far. I should be getting it in 2 weeks. I'll post pics after I test it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blackmagic-URS ... Ciid%253A1

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:56 am
by Jamie LeJeune
The potential to lose files from a shoot or have some other cable while recording issue just isn't worth saving a few hundred bucks.
Cfast 2.0 are insanely cheap compared to what it would cost me to lose files from a shoot, much less permanently losing a client when it (inevitably) happens.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:33 am
by Denis Kazlowski
James Harkness wrote:https://www.amazon.ca/CFAST-eSATA-DATA-Breakout-Cable/dp/B012B6HIA0/ref=pd_sbs_147_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=D4WZQAN97HC31JVQ5K5K

https://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-Exte ... EMQR1&th=1

with an ssd? what do you guys think would it work?


Currently working here on URSA 4kv1 - only not eSATA - , not sure about the enclosure, I don't much trust StarTech historically. According to NAB videos the CFAST SATA ports are SATA 3 on most BM gear - Samsung EVO 850 and 850 PRO tested, as well as MX line of SSD drives at 24.00 to 60.00 FULL CinemaDNG 1:1. The closer to a direct cable to the SSD you can get without additional connectors/transfer - the better.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:33 am
by Krzysztof Gluszek
I use this setup over a year now, i used it on boats, i used it in helicopters, i used in on guads, i used it in winter on minus 30 degrees celcius, im using it literally every day and no issues whatsoever! Paying jobs as well as my own projects. I use samsung 850evo 500GB SSDs (i have 8 of those) and works perfect in 4.6k raw 3:1, 4:1, 60fps. And of course everything below. I am shocked why so few people use this setup. I am using a flat powerbank with on/off swith (which is crucial for me for inserting and removing SSDs). Recently i cut the case in half with a saw to make inserting and removing ssds easier and not to put any unnecessary strain on cables.



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Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:32 am
by James Alexander Barnett
Jamie LeJeune wrote:The potential to lose files from a shoot or have some other cable while recording issue just isn't worth saving a few hundred bucks.
Cfast 2.0 are insanely cheap compared to what it would cost me to lose files from a shoot, much less permanently losing a client when it (inevitably) happens.


I totally agree Jamie, without sounding like a complete snob I would be embarrassed in front of a client showing up with some of the Frankenstein solutions that are out there, they just look amateur.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:47 am
by Denis Kazlowski
James Alexander Barnett wrote:
Jamie LeJeune wrote:The potential to lose files from a shoot or have some other cable while recording issue just isn't worth saving a few hundred bucks.
Cfast 2.0 are insanely cheap compared to what it would cost me to lose files from a shoot, much less permanently losing a client when it (inevitably) happens.


I totally agree Jamie, without sounding like a complete snob I would be embarrassed in front of a client showing up with some of the Frankenstein solutions that are out there, they just look amateur.


I totally dig the look of the blue cable being un-hip looking for a client, or it getting in the way....

But data-loss on CFAST 2.0 vs. Solid SSD brand, That you tested yourself. I don't think anyone would be any better protected in either case from that. From what I remember, CFAST cards are scaled down VNAND SATA flash operating at 3.3 volts instead of 5 volts. Plenty of users had reported Lexar - a brand known for robust photo cards, giving them grief. I don't see a difference really. If we were talking CODEX and their hand-picked, burn-in-tested mags or the crazy Sony Durable SSD for Video - or even some new super robust solid state thing - then I'd consider it. Also since the cameras have no soft EJECT command, power-down seems a softer option.

Plus for the work I do sometimes, I cannot afford to load due to speed of setups, so I'll just come with 6 or 8 512GB SSD drives to cover the shooting ratio - I don't think I'd have a budget for more than 2 CFAST 2.0 cards with that capacity. $150-$200 per 512GB x 8 vs. $800 Sandisk PRO 256GB x 16 ?
My 2 cents.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am
by Robert Niessner
I just bought two Angelbird 256GB CFast cards (on BMDs official supported list) on Black Friday for € 236 each. Angelbird has proven to be very reliable. Plus they are from Austria/EU - where I live ;-)

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:53 am
by Denis Kazlowski
Robert Niessner wrote:I just bought two Angelbird 256GB CFast cards (on BMDs official supported list) on Black Friday for € 236 each. Angelbird has proven to be very reliable. Plus they are from Austria/EU - where I live ;-)


That's amazing, and If I were flying a UMP on a steady or gimbal, they would totally make sense. I get about 512GB with SSD per $145 USD - shooting handheld or on sticks

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:11 pm
by Keith Babineaux
SSD's are just as reliable as Cfast cards man. I've used Sandisk SSD cards with the URSA Mini 4.6K and ATOMOS Shogun Inferno with no issues for over a year. I don't know why people want to spend money on Cfast cards when there are other cheap solutions that are just as reliable. I'm in film school and they teach us how to be innovators. DIY is a good way to get good, quality video production without breaking the bank. The price just dropped on this dual SSD module for all 3 models of the URSA Mini. I have one on the way!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CFAST-To-2-5-S ... 0005.m1851

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:56 pm
by Jamie LeJeune
Keith Babineaux wrote:SSD's are just as reliable as Cfast cards man. I've used Sandisk SSD cards with the URSA Mini 4.6K and ATOMOS Shogun Inferno with no issues for over a year. I don't know why people want to spend money on Cfast cards when there are other cheap solutions that are just as reliable. I'm in film school and they teach us how to be innovators. DIY is a good way to get good, quality video production without breaking the bank. The price just dropped on this dual SSD module for all 3 models of the URSA Mini. I have one on the way!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CFAST-To-2-5-S ... 0005.m1851


It's not the SSD cards that are the main concern. It's the cheap connection cable between the Cfast slot and the SSD. Even in the best case scenario of a perfect cable and connection, it adds an additional point of failure (that cable could be caught on something and accidentally yanked out at any time) and that inherently increases the risk that you'll lose footage versus just recording to Cfast slots. I want to decrease the possible points of failure on my camera setup, not add to them.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:16 am
by Denis Kazlowski
It's not the SSD cards that are the main concern. It's the cheap connection cable between the Cfast slot and the SSD. Even in the best case scenario of a perfect cable and connection, it adds an additional point of failure (that cable could be caught on something and accidentally yanked out at any time) and that inherently increases the risk that you'll lose footage versus just recording to Cfast slots. I want to decrease the possible points of failure on my camera setup, not add to them.


That is the most succinct way of saying why what I and others are doing with SATA SSD drives is a bad idea! And the more connections, the more chance of failure. Reliability or looking 'PRO' nothing to do with it.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:40 am
by Keith Babineaux
Jamie LeJeune wrote:
Keith Babineaux wrote:SSD's are just as reliable as Cfast cards man. I've used Sandisk SSD cards with the URSA Mini 4.6K and ATOMOS Shogun Inferno with no issues for over a year. I don't know why people want to spend money on Cfast cards when there are other cheap solutions that are just as reliable. I'm in film school and they teach us how to be innovators. DIY is a good way to get good, quality video production without breaking the bank. The price just dropped on this dual SSD module for all 3 models of the URSA Mini. I have one on the way!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CFAST-To-2-5-S ... 0005.m1851


It's not the SSD cards that are the main concern. It's the cheap connection cable between the Cfast slot and the SSD. Even in the best case scenario of a perfect cable and connection, it adds an additional point of failure (that cable could be caught on something and accidentally yanked out at any time) and that inherently increases the risk that you'll lose footage versus just recording to Cfast slots. I want to decrease the possible points of failure on my camera setup, not add to them.


Jamie,

I totally understand where you're coming from. That's why I ordered the 3rd party SSD module. I'm starting to shoot run and gun and those cords were getting in my way. If the camera is stationary, the Startech enclosure is a cheaper alternative to record on the Minis.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:50 am
by Keith Babineaux
Denis Kazlowski wrote:
It's not the SSD cards that are the main concern. It's the cheap connection cable between the Cfast slot and the SSD. Even in the best case scenario of a perfect cable and connection, it adds an additional point of failure (that cable could be caught on something and accidentally yanked out at any time) and that inherently increases the risk that you'll lose footage versus just recording to Cfast slots. I want to decrease the possible points of failure on my camera setup, not add to them.


That is the most succinct way of saying why what I and others are doing with SATA SSD drives is a bad idea! And the more connections, the more chance of failure. Reliability or looking 'PRO' nothing to do with it.


Denis,

I don't think that Jamie is saying that. He's talking about the cords getting caught in something and messing up the recording process. I agree with that part. I don't care about looking professional. It's about getting the job done the best possible way. I have 6-128GB Lexar x3400 cards but I record 4.6K Raw 4:1 so those cards last about 15-20 mins. My 1TB Sandisk SSD lasts about 2 hrs 30 mins at 4.6K Raw 4:1 so I won't have to change cards every 30-40 mins. I'll post the SSD module attached the my Mini where I receive it this week.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:08 pm
by Robert Niessner
I totally understand that not everyone is in a position of earning enough money for investing in expensive equipment. That is just the way reality is.

Keith Babineaux wrote:I don't know why people want to spend money on Cfast cards when there are other cheap solutions that are just as reliable.


I spend money on CFast cards because it speeds up my way of working. I do for example a lot of interviews for big companies with their CEOs. When I arrive there, I usually have just 15-20 minutes to prepare everything - from camera setup, audio, lighting, and eventually a Teleprompter. CEOs have very little time, so I have to be quick and must make no mistakes. Every bit I have to mount and connect extra is an extra point of error/failure and slows me down.

Keith Babineaux wrote:I don't know why people want to spend money on Cfast cards when there are other cheap solutions that are just as reliable. I'm in film school and they teach us how to be innovators. DIY is a good way to get good, quality video production without breaking the bank.


DIY is a good way when you start your career, but later you may prefer - if financially possible - professional quality solutions. Especially when your next job is on the edge if things go wrong. I am not saying tried and tested professional quality solutions will never fail, but at least can be expected to have much less probability to fail. This gives me a certain peace of mind while doing my job.
Saying this, last month I had a Lexar 3400 256GB card completely fail and die. I had to re-shoot 2 CEO interviews on my own expenses and buy replacement cards.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:02 pm
by Keith Babineaux
James Alexander Barnett wrote:
Jamie LeJeune wrote:The potential to lose files from a shoot or have some other cable while recording issue just isn't worth saving a few hundred bucks.
Cfast 2.0 are insanely cheap compared to what it would cost me to lose files from a shoot, much less permanently losing a client when it (inevitably) happens.


I totally agree Jamie, without sounding like a complete snob I would be embarrassed in front of a client showing up with some of the Frankenstein solutions that are out there, they just look amateur.


Having professional equipment doesn't make YOU a professional. It's how you use the equipment that you have. I've seen guys with Frankenstein solutions produce the best quality products. Have you seen the movie called Tangerine that was shot entirely on an iPhone 5s? If not, google it. I'm on here to help independent filmmakers like myself. I'm not on here to argue about equipment not looking professional.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:48 pm
by Leon Benzakein
Keith Babineaux wrote:

Having professional equipment doesn't make YOU a professional. It's how you use the equipment that you have. I've seen guys with Frankenstein solutions produce the best quality products. Have you seen the movie called Tangerine that was shot entirely on an iPhone 5s? If not, google it. I'm on here to help independent filmmakers like myself. I'm not on here to argue about equipment not looking professional.


Keith
I admire your spunk and I will defend your right to your opinion, BUT how long have you been working in this industry?

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:55 pm
by Denis Kazlowski
Keith Babineaux wrote:
Denis Kazlowski wrote:
It's not the SSD cards that are the main concern. It's the cheap connection cable between the Cfast slot and the SSD. Even in the best case scenario of a perfect cable and connection, it adds an additional point of failure (that cable could be caught on something and accidentally yanked out at any time) and that inherently increases the risk that you'll lose footage versus just recording to Cfast slots. I want to decrease the possible points of failure on my camera setup, not add to them.


That is the most succinct way of saying why what I and others are doing with SATA SSD drives is a bad idea! And the more connections, the more chance of failure. Reliability or looking 'PRO' nothing to do with it.


Denis,

I don't think that Jamie is saying that. He's talking about the cords getting caught in something and messing up the recording process. I agree with that part. I don't care about looking professional. It's about getting the job done the best possible way. I have 6-128GB Lexar x3400 cards but I record 4.6K Raw 4:1 so those cards last about 15-20 mins. My 1TB Sandisk SSD lasts about 2 hrs 30 mins at 4.6K Raw 4:1 so I won't have to change cards every 30-40 mins. I'll post the SSD module attached the my Mini where I receive it this week.


Sorry if the reply was unclear. I absolutely loved his reply and agree with him 100%. CFAST to Card Slot - 2 connection surfaces. CFAST - SATA - SSD - 4 connection surfaces. CFAST - eSATA - DISK BOX - SSD - 6 connection surfaces for SATA protocol. - In addition the SSD must be powered at 5 volts, so the additional wires are trouble. CFAST does not really lock in the camera so a SATA adapter can be yanked out by the cord, if damaged and you don't have a spare it would be a big problem. If SSD power is incorrect for any reason you can Fry the SSD, or lose the shot if SSD offline. - He has highlighted the exact risk factors involved in using SSD vs. CFAST. :-).

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:33 pm
by Denis Kazlowski
Having professional equipment doesn't make YOU a professional. It's how you use the equipment that you have. I've seen guys with Frankenstein solutions produce the best quality products. Have you seen the movie called Tangerine that was shot entirely on an iPhone 5s? If not, google it. I'm on here to help independent filmmakers like myself. I'm not on here to argue about equipment not looking professional.


Trying to define what a professional is in a photo/video/film forum filled with different kinds of individuals with variable needs, incomes, budgets and types of work they take has become a trope. Google it.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:28 pm
by Keith Babineaux
Here it is. I'm loving it. I can record 4.6K Lossless at 24fps using a single Sandisk Ultra II SSD. I can also record 4.6K 4:1 and 3:1 Raw at 60fps. I can record 4.6K Lossless at 60fps using dual Sandisk Ultra II SSD's.

Re: insanely cheap alternative for cfast?

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:53 pm
by James Harkness
Keith Babineaux wrote:Here it is. I'm loving it. I can record 4.6K Lossless at 24fps using a single Sandisk Ultra II SSD. I can also record 4.6K 4:1 and 3:1 Raw at 60fps. I can record 4.6K Lossless at 60fps using dual Sandisk Ultra II SSD's.



Gotta say I'm really liking this. CFast Cards seem to be dropping as we speak now, and I use a Glidecam with no vest on almost every single video I do. I seen someone comment about glidecams or something to do with stabilizers and weight, and I didn't consider that. I got a CFast 256gb Super Talent card that cost me a bit less than 200 Canadian dollars. It can record 4K RAW 3:1 24 fps, and Dual Card 4K RAW 3:1 60 FPS. So things are moving down in price with CFast cards for sure. These cards do everything I need really. Still paying about double for the storage fee itself compared to SSD, but the size, weight and physical storing and carrying of them makes the difference I think I need.