Lowest latency camera to screen configuration

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

David Richards

  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:10 am

Lowest latency camera to screen configuration

PostMon Dec 11, 2017 12:58 pm

We are using Blackmagic products to try and construct a video feed of some bells ringing. Things are going well so far and we're quite pleased with the overall results we have been getting.

One issue we are struggling with is the overall latency of the system. The specific route which is problematic is Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera going directly into an Asus MX279H display (HDMI -> HDMI). The users can hear the bells directly, and the video feed is lagging behind the direct sound by about 150ms or so. I've not measured it accurately, but it's definitely enough to be noticeable.

I'm relatively confident we haven't done anything 'silly' - footage on YouTube (video: kux2_XFYQF0) seems similar in terms of latency. The Blackmagic Camera is at all of its factory default settings, but I haven't seen anything that I would expect to impact video latency. I did flick between a couple of codecs, but assumed they would only affect the recording format - I didn't notice any change in latency onto the HDMI output.

The question is whether there is anything we can do to improve the latency. Does anyone have any experience of using the composite output from the camera? I can imagine the analogue out being lower latency, even if I have to go through an Analogue -> SDI -> HDMI chain. I'm not averse to buying new video capture equipment if this particular camera is a limitation - I can shuffle the Micro Cinema Camera to another project. I also appreciate I'm asking to take ~4 frames of delay down to 1 or 2 and that's not necessarily easy.

As a final thought, I'm somewhat amazed that latency figures for video equipment aren't published (and just occasionally appear on websites and forums for specific products). That's not a comment about Blackmagic in particular - vendors don't seem to publish latency figures for their cameras in general. It's a shame because it's such a critical parameter for live situations.
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 13131
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: Lowest latency camera to screen configuration

PostTue Dec 12, 2017 2:22 am

The ?Micro Cinema Camera is processing the image for recording and the HDMI output is post processing, so ther is going to be a small delay between live and displayed image going to a monitor, which adds more delay. The Micro Studio Camera has a faster sensor readout, and a much smaller delay on its SDI output.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline
User avatar

Xtreemtec

  • Posts: 5397
  • Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:48 am
  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: Lowest latency camera to screen configuration

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 10:29 am

Quite normal behaviour..
Indeed the Micro studio is faster.. Also You monitor can indeed have serious lag.. Maybe a different monitor will give you a faster responce.

But near "Lipsink" you will never get it. No camera and display system is that good.. ;)
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV Trailer, ATEM TVS HD, 4M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Constelation 8K, Hyperdeck Studio 12G, Ursa Broadcast 4K, 4K fiber converters with Sony Control
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 3362
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am
  • Location: Earth

Re: Lowest latency camera to screen configuration

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 11:21 am

It is as they say. Unless you have something putting raw over HDMI, you have to wait extra on that side. Even conversion to to 4:2:2 from Bayer takes time, but depending on how it's done, it cannbe small (but people are demanding high quality de-mosaicing). On the screen side you have screens with various modes some lower latency, but still it could be significant. I do think know if any modern screen is near 0 latency. It would not surprise me if 75ms is the lowest you can see for a whole path combined with de-mosiac only and low latency display. I think some latest OLED panels have around 34ms modes on that side but I don't know about LCD monitors. Try monitors of known low latency modes and see how close you can get. If the heaters are far enough away from the bells, that would solve the latency issue too.

Now, about analogue, give it a go. But everytime you stick an adaptor in the chain there maybe a day from that.
aIf you are not truthfully progressive, maybe you shouldn't say anything
bTruthful side topics in-line with or related to, the discussion accepted
cOften people deceive themselves so much they do not understand, even when the truth is explained to them

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 71 guests