Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 1:56 am

satyablack wrote:I believe that majority of the people eagerly awaiting the BMPCC would be happy with Prores provided we get an assurance from BMD that RAW would be updated via firmware at a later stage. BMD should inform about any production delays or hiccups which would clear all speculations, I sincerely hope the camera is shipped out as per schedule.


Not me, I want RAW now, Need RAW now, And since Cinema.dng is open source and Adobe basically abandoned it and Blackmagic made a camera around it, I want it ASAP, I'm not a fan of BMD's slow firmware updates, and I surely do not want to wait more than 2 months for the RAW on either the 4K or the Pocket cameras, and since BMD is using the "Cone of Silence" about anything nowadays, I may just need to consider another camera, or Buy the Cinema Camera again... :?

Grant Petty really needs support from us the end user of BMD Products, But if he want's our support and respect, there needs to be some open dialog or realistic updates from him.

JMO
Last edited by Darryl Gregory on Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:05 am

Erik Swan wrote:Don't be naive. If the camera ships on-time, with all advertised features (RAW recording included), we will all feel perfectly satisfied and happy that Blackmagic has delivered on-time and on-spec, and will open up our BMPCC boxes like kids on Christmas.

However, there's only so much goodwill and understanding a company can have, and shipping products late, for a second year running, with virtually no communication between the company and paying customers, is one way to rapidly run out of that goodwill.

Not to mention that shipping a product below spec is another thing entirely. This isn't a beta product or Kickstarter. When I order a $1000 professional product from an established, professional company, I expect it at the very least to be delivered on-spec, as advertised. I also expect it to be delivered on time, but I understand that delays happen and things come up. In those cases I expect the manufacturer to communicate clearly what the problem is and be honest and open about updated timelines.

Blackmagic is 8 days close to completely failing on this basic expectation.

I expect that it be delivered on time and on spec too, but I also understand we're all human and would rather they get out a camera that works, and works well, rather than a buggy heap of garbage because some issue came up and they had to rush it out anyway.

Raw (not RAW - it's not an acronym) via a firmware update is no issue for me, and the reality is if you don't like it, you're free to shop elsewhere, or buy other cameras. Jumping up and down about it is clearly not going to do you any favours, since BMD are observing forum posts but being quiet about progress. They're not the only company that does this, and I cannot for the life of me understand why we go around in circles with the same arguments every couple of weeks.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:08 am

Ryan Jones wrote:
Erik Swan wrote:Don't be naive. If the camera ships on-time, with all advertised features (RAW recording included), we will all feel perfectly satisfied and happy that Blackmagic has delivered on-time and on-spec, and will open up our BMPCC boxes like kids on Christmas.

However, there's only so much goodwill and understanding a company can have, and shipping products late, for a second year running, with virtually no communication between the company and paying customers, is one way to rapidly run out of that goodwill.

Not to mention that shipping a product below spec is another thing entirely. This isn't a beta product or Kickstarter. When I order a $1000 professional product from an established, professional company, I expect it at the very least to be delivered on-spec, as advertised. I also expect it to be delivered on time, but I understand that delays happen and things come up. In those cases I expect the manufacturer to communicate clearly what the problem is and be honest and open about updated timelines.

Blackmagic is 8 days close to completely failing on this basic expectation.

I expect that it be delivered on time and on spec too, but I also understand we're all human and would rather they get out a camera that works, and works well, rather than a buggy heap of garbage because some issue came up and they had to rush it out anyway.

Raw (not RAW - it's not an acronym) via a firmware update is no issue for me, and the reality is if you don't like it, you're free to shop elsewhere, or buy other cameras. Jumping up and down about it is clearly not going to do you any favours, since BMD are observing forum posts but being quiet about progress. They're not the only company that does this, and I cannot for the life of me understand why we go around in circles with the same arguments every couple of weeks.


Ryan Jones wrote: and I cannot for the life of me understand why we go around in circles with the same arguments every couple of weeks.

Because people like yourself perpetuate it with posts like this :roll:
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Jeff Troiano

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:12 am

As someone stated, Prores and 13 stops dynamic range, ill be happy as can be. I'm curious about RAW, but its the dynamic range that's big for me.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:17 am

Jeff Troiano wrote:As someone stated, Prores and 13 stops dynamic range, ill be happy as can be. I'm curious about RAW, but its the dynamic range that's big for me.


curious about RAW? That Should be a BMD bumper sticker,
RAW is the reason this camera is what it is, ProRes is like an after thought!
If ProRes was their intent we would have SD and Compact flash options, But SSD Drives?
Cinema.DNG RAW was the reason this camera was born.

It's been said before, they took their SSD Recorder (Hyperdeck shuttle 2) and slapped a sensor in front of it, It was Genius! But now they are trying to compress the Cinema.DNG RAW and are probably running into the same issues Adobe did, Makes you wonder why Adobe abandoned it?
Last edited by Darryl Gregory on Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Jeff Troiano

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:22 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:
Jeff Troiano wrote:As someone stated, Prores and 13 stops dynamic range, ill be happy as can be. I'm curious about RAW, but its the dynamic range that's big for me.


curious about RAW? That Should be a BMD bumper sticker,
RAW is the reason this camera is what it is, ProRes is like an after thought!



Ok curious was the wrong word. Dynamic range and RAW, for 1k price tag was the selling points for me.
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bhook

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:24 am

I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around 15 minutes of record time in raw. My old BVU-110 3/4" Umatic could do 20 minutes.
Last edited by bhook on Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:29 am

Jeff Troiano wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:
Jeff Troiano wrote:As someone stated, Prores and 13 stops dynamic range, ill be happy as can be. I'm curious about RAW, but its the dynamic range that's big for me.


curious about RAW? That Should be a BMD bumper sticker,
RAW is the reason this camera is what it is, ProRes is like an after thought!



Ok curious was the wrong word. Dynamic range and RAW, for 1k price tag was the selling points for me.


Yeah Sorry Jeff, I'm thinking mostly about the Production 4K camera more than the Pocket Camera
I do like the look of the ProRes from the Pocket Cam, but it's nothing like Raw...At least for me.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:35 am

mhood wrote:I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around 15 minutes of record time in raw. My old BVU-100 3/4" Umatic could do 20 minutes.

Well listen mhood I have read just about every comment you have posted, And I agree with you,
I'm not getting any younger, and the competition for work is getting ridiculous, Every time a prospective client tells me they can get a DP/Camera operator for less,
I simply tell them "Go ahead" I'm getting a little frustrated explaining why My rates are as High as they are, I'm to damn old and have way to much experience to be competing with the Newbies.

Sorry I think this comment is what the kids call a RANT! :mrgreen:
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Jeff Troiano

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 3:01 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:
Jeff Troiano wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:
Yeah Sorry Jeff, I'm thinking mostly about the Production 4K camera more than the Pocket Camera
I do like the look of the ProRes from the Pocket Cam, but it's nothing like Raw...At least for me.



I'm just an indie hobbyist, so 1k is a good start for me.
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Jace Ross

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:43 am

Ryan Jones wrote:I expect that it be delivered on time and on spec too, but I also understand we're all human and would rather they get out a camera that works, and works well, rather than a buggy heap of garbage because some issue came up and they had to rush it out anyway.

Raw (not RAW - it's not an acronym) via a firmware update is no issue for me, and the reality is if you don't like it, you're free to shop elsewhere, or buy other cameras. Jumping up and down about it is clearly not going to do you any favours, since BMD are observing forum posts but being quiet about progress. They're not the only company that does this, and I cannot for the life of me understand why we go around in circles with the same arguments every couple of weeks.


This.
It's exactly how people should see these things. Delays happen, sometimes features come a little later but atleast at this point BMD won't be charging you extra to get them (looking at you Panasonic).
BMPCC, FD Canon 28mm f2.8, Tokina 80-200mm F4, Tamron 70-300mm f4 C Canon J6x12 MFT SLR Magic 17mm T1.6, Sigma 19mm f2.8, Samyang 7.5mm f3.5
Rode VideoMic, Viewfactor Cage/Handle/Grip/Perspex backing
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Gan Eden

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:54 am

Hi, I'm new here and recently pre-ordered the BMPCC from Lemac in Sydney. Not getting much info out of them or BMD's distributors New Magic http://www.newmagic.com.au/index.asp about any possible delays etc, infact I wasn't very impressed with the attitude of the woman on the phone at New Magic Distribution. Quite rude to say the least yet these people want our $$$?? Terrible!

So, can SOMEBODY please update us about;

a) The release/delievery dates

b) Will the camera come with RAW, yes or no, if not then when??

Can't be that hard for them to communicate??
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:32 am

Gan Eden wrote:Hi, I'm new here and recently pre-ordered the BMPCC from Lemac in Sydney. Not getting much info out of them or BMD's distributors New Magic http://www.newmagic.com.au/index.asp about any possible delays etc, infact I wasn't very impressed with the attitude of the woman on the phone at New Magic Distribution. Quite rude to say the least yet these people want our $$$?? Terrible!

So, can SOMEBODY please update us about;

a) The release/delievery dates

b) Will the camera come with RAW, yes or no, if not then when??

Can't be that hard for them to communicate??


As far as the Compressed RAW..NO, There will never be an answer until they make it work,
Here is the problem/delay/dilemma, BMD are trying to write code that compresses the 2.5k/4K Raw
so that there "Hyperdecks" Can record the compressed RAW, This is the Delay!
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:47 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:... This is the Delay!


What delay are you referring to?

July 2013 isn't over yet. Until it is, there is no delay.

No, really, take a look at a calendar if you don't believe me. It really isn't Aug. 1st yet.

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Samjack

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:58 am

EOSHD has cancelled accepting that BMD will miss its delivery target.
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Andrew.Agnew@TheDoco.Co

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 6:24 am

I got my first hands on look at the BMPCC today, I like what I saw.

So..., it ain't gonna ship this week although they say it is still on target for July... probing a bit more suggested its a week or two away.

The first thing I noticed was the camera felt warm to the touch, it had obviously been on for a while connected to an external power source, however when I checked it again a couple of hours later it did not feel any hotter, mind you it had not been recording either (no SD card).

The menu structure was uncomplicated, the only recording format available on the demo model I got to handle was ProRes and the rep indicated in most likely won't ship with CinemaDNG out of the box though he did say it was not far off.

I neglected to check the speed of the Autofocus and could not find a way to move the focus square the rep was not sure how to or if it could be moved yet either. Please bear in mind this may not have been the firmware that it will ship with.

I hope to get back to see it again before the end of the week and will be taking some vintage glass with me to try out. Once again please let me know if there are any question you want me to pass on.
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hugh

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 6:43 am

So..., it ain't gonna ship this week although they say it is still on target for July... probing a bit more suggested its a week or two away.


Umm... "A week or two away" isn't on target for July, it's on target for August.
Not a big deal timewise, but that sentence just made no sense.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 6:52 am

Samjack wrote:EOSHD has cancelled accepting that BMD will miss its delivery target.


What you typed makes no sense (at least not in English).

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hugh

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 6:54 am

What delay are you referring to?
July 2013 isn't over yet. Until it is, there is no delay.
No, really, take a look at a calendar if you don't believe me. It really isn't Aug. 1st yet.


"Shipping" means shipping to the customer, not to the dealers, and if the dealers don't have it in their warehouses by now, there's no way the customer will have it "shipping" to them this month.
I don't even care so much if there is a delay, but the lack of communication is pretty awful- an exact date for shipping should have been announced by now, even if they are on track to somehow deliver all these cameras in the next week, we shouldn't be left guessing as to when we can expect delivery.

I guarantee you BMD's attitude towards all this is "screw them, we're the only ones making a camera like this, if they want to whine about us being late they can go find another pocket proRes camera", which of course we can't, so it's both true and disgusting.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 7:26 am

Briwil wrote:
What delay are you referring to?
July 2013 isn't over yet. Until it is, there is no delay.
No, really, take a look at a calendar if you don't believe me. It really isn't Aug. 1st yet.


"Shipping" means shipping to the customer, not to the dealers, and if the dealers don't have it in their warehouses by now, there's no way the customer will have it "shipping" to them this month.
I don't even care so much if there is a delay, but the lack of communication is pretty awful- an exact date for shipping should have been announced by now, even if they are on track to somehow deliver all these cameras in the next week, we shouldn't be left guessing as to when we can expect delivery.

I guarantee you BMD's attitude towards all this is "screw them, we're the only ones making a camera like this, if they want to whine about us being late they can go find another pocket proRes camera", which of course we can't, so it's both true and disgusting.


The phrase is "start shipping".

BMD promised they'd start shipping the new cams by the end of this month. If you take a glance at a calendar, you'll notice the end of July is still several days away. Plenty of time for them to start shipping by their self-imposed deadline.

See also:
viewtopic.php?p=63406&sid=7e98900098f53bc74d0756cbf4a0a06f#p63406

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hugh

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 7:39 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Briwil wrote:
What delay are you referring to?
The phrase is "start shipping".

BMD promised they'd start shipping the new cams by the end of this month. If you take a glance at a calendar, you'll notice the end of July is still several days away. Plenty of time for them to start shipping by their self-imposed deadline.

See also:
viewtopic.php?p=63406&sid=7e98900098f53bc74d0756cbf4a0a06f#p63406

-


Yeah, I've seen that post of yours, and I have to say, that's just you making things up. When did BMD ever say that shipping to the dealer is what they meant by "Shipping July"?
Which, by the way, is what's plastered all over the Pocket's webpage, "Shipping July", not "starts shipping".
Just like it also says the camera shoots Raw, no asterisk mentioning anything about it being added later through a firmware update, so they better hope to god that function is working when it ships or they could very likely have a handful of countries going after them for false advertising.

Stop defending them in every single post, they're not going to give you a free camera.
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Nieuw

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 8:55 am

I suppose that I will just wait and see when the camera arrives.... ordered it the end of April in Germany... may still be somewhere at the end of line.... is it worth waiting? very likely yes....

More important than waiting is to find nice S16 coverage vintage glass and test lenses (with Nikon V1/J1 camera which has approximately the same sensor size as the BMPCC)......

What I really would like to know is whether the BMPCC will support the new SDHC UHS-II interface memory cards, (which have an extra row of pins in order to reach full writing speed).... http://www.sdxc2.com/ http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2013_07/pr1601.htm this could in the longer run (current capacity max 64 GB but this will change) fully solve the issues of writing RAW to SD cards.....

Hans
Johannes Cornelis van Nieuwkerk
NO Cinematographer, NO Photographer, Just a vintage lens collector with a passion
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simonspear

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 9:20 am

Briwil wrote:
Stop defending them in every single post, they're not going to give you a free camera.


LOL!

BMD have said next to nothing about shipping yet alone said:

"we plan to starting shipping a few cameras to our dealers in July, so some of you may start to receive the odd camera or two in August".

"Shipping in July" as stated on their website is pretty clear cut and the only factual info we appear to have, so everything else appears to be entirely made up speculation.

Fanboys vs Trolls.

Oh what fun! :)
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Samjack

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 9:39 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Samjack wrote:EOSHD has cancelled accepting that BMD will miss its delivery target.


What you typed makes no sense (at least not in English).

-


Peter, I suggest you engage head before open mouth. Andrew at EOSHD made that decision because he believe BMD wont deliver on the promise date. Whether BMD deliver on time is inconsequential here since Andrew has made up his mind to cancel.
You are behaving like a despot and could not tolerate others for thinking differently than yourself.
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 10:06 am

Samjack wrote:
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Samjack wrote:EOSHD has cancelled accepting that BMD will miss its delivery target.


What you typed makes no sense (at least not in English).

-


Peter, I suggest you engage head before open mouth. Andrew at EOSHD made that decision because he believe BMD wont deliver on the promise date. Whether BMD deliver on time is inconsequential here since Andrew has made up his mind to cancel.
You are behaving like a despot and could not tolerate others for thinking differently than yourself.


Technically Peter is correct the sentence doesnt technically make sense according to the rules of english that sentence doesnt actually make sence. The intended meaning isn't hard to devine though.

I'm not sure Peter is doing what you accuse him off at least not as far as this is concerened. Peter is mearly objecting to those that are stating as fact that the BMPCC is delayed. Thats pretty hard to argue as fact, given the only shipping target that BMD have mentioned is July, and that isnt over yet. That it is likely to be delayed Peter isn't actually arguing against, just the misinformation that it is already missed.

My personal opinion is that if we havent heard anything by Friday they are unlikely to manage to be shipping the cameras to make that July. That remains opinion and they could theoretically make it, especially to customers due to pick the camera in store.
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Ryan Jones

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 10:37 am

Nieuw wrote:I suppose that I will just wait and see when the camera arrives.... ordered it the end of April in Germany... may still be somewhere at the end of line.... is it worth waiting? very likely yes....

More important than waiting is to find nice S16 coverage vintage glass and test lenses (with Nikon V1/J1 camera which has approximately the same sensor size as the BMPCC)......

What I really would like to know is whether the BMPCC will support the new SDHC UHS-II interface memory cards, (which have an extra row of pins in order to reach full writing speed).... http://www.sdxc2.com/ http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2013_07/pr1601.htm this could in the longer run (current capacity max 64 GB but this will change) fully solve the issues of writing RAW to SD cards.....

Hans

They haven't said anything about UHS-II which probably means they won't work, but they're supposed to be backwards compatible, so here's hoping they'll give us higher capacities and Extreme Pro speeds. Those Toshi cards will cost you a kidney though I bet!

As for the rest of you, if you've got nothing better than to come on here and complain about not having a camera, maybe you should get a new hobby while you wait. Same story over and over again, not changing, not getting more helpful or interesting for anyone. Most of you have other cameras, go and shoot something else.
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www.marcotec-shop.com

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 11:34 am

We are looking forward to receive the new Pocket Cinema Camera soon. Does anyone know when respective volumes are shipped to europe?
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Peter Poulos

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 11:50 am

I just do not understand why someone from the company can't give their customers and insight into what's going on. Sure they are probably busy trying to meet the deadline but to take the time to send out a small message with any sort of information surely can't be that difficult?
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 12:13 pm

Peter917 wrote:I just do not understand why someone from the company can't give their customers and insight into what's going on. Sure they are probably busy trying to meet the deadline but to take the time to send out a small message with any sort of information surely can't be that difficult?


EXACTLY!
I can think of why BMD cant post something to the effect of:
The BMPCC will be shipping in the next week in large quantity to our distributers. the cameras at this point will not have the facilities to shoot raw but this will be implemented via firmware in the coming weekks/months.
simple!

there is only 3 reasons I can think of why they don't do this.

1. they cant be bothered.
2. they like to piss off their customers.
3. they cant meet the deadline and are scared of pissing off the mob even more with a negative announcement.

Whichever of those options is true BMD have some seriously bad PR.
Richard Oakes.
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Peter Poulos

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 12:41 pm

Yep. Oh we'll it is what it is. Hopefully we will get some information on the 25th. I contacted hot rod cameras which is where I ordered mine. They still have not gotten any information from BMD about thee shipments, only good news I got is that ordered in the 100's of the pocket cams and I'm number 15 on the preorder list, at least ill be one of the first to get the camera granted they have a delay again.
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 12:47 pm

Yeh cvp said I'm in the first 100 pre orders with them, but they couldn't tell me what position!
Richard Oakes.
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Mac Jaeger

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 12:56 pm

Samjack wrote:
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Samjack wrote:EOSHD has cancelled accepting that BMD will miss its delivery target.


What you typed makes no sense (at least not in English).

Peter, I suggest you engage head before open mouth.

Wow. One tiny punctuation mark missing, and so much hate set free. "EOSHD has cancelled, accepting..." would be so much clearer! I didn't understand your posting either, although i'm no english native. I wondered "why does EOSHD no longer accept that BMD will miss their target?!".

Please, don't bully Peter for not understanding your malformed posting.

Obviously the first demo cameras have arrived at some accessories manufacturers, so I still believe in BMD meeting their deadline.
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Nieuw

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 12:57 pm

Ryan Jones wrote:
Nieuw wrote:I suppose that I will just wait and see when the camera arrives.... ordered it the end of April in Germany... may still be somewhere at the end of line.... is it worth waiting? very likely yes....

More important than waiting is to find nice S16 coverage vintage glass and test lenses (with Nikon V1/J1 camera which has approximately the same sensor size as the BMPCC)......

What I really would like to know is whether the BMPCC will support the new SDHC UHS-II interface memory cards, (which have an extra row of pins in order to reach full writing speed).... http://www.sdxc2.com/ http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2013_07/pr1601.htm this could in the longer run (current capacity max 64 GB but this will change) fully solve the issues of writing RAW to SD cards.....

Hans

They haven't said anything about UHS-II which probably means they won't work, but they're supposed to be backwards compatible, so here's hoping they'll give us higher capacities and Extreme Pro speeds. Those Toshi cards will cost you a kidney though I bet!

As for the rest of you, if you've got nothing better than to come on here and complain about not having a camera, maybe you should get a new hobby while you wait. Same story over and over again, not changing, not getting more helpful or interesting for anyone. Most of you have other cameras, go and shoot something else.


Yes.... backward compatible at half the writing speed! (which could by the way still be fast enough if the card is not fragmented).

However, I suppose Blackmagic, being a professional company, and releasing a brand new fast SD storage requiring product in 2013, to have strategically looked into this matter and therefore it would not surprise me at all if they did (if available? http://www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/en/p ... /sdbridge/) implement the much faster UHS-II interface. If yes, this would solve all SD card speed issues. In regard to price, yes, likely expensive, but price will come down after a while...... and the UHS-I Sandisk alternative is for the moment not that cheap either.....

Hans
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Andrew.Agnew@TheDoco.Co

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 2:59 pm

For what it's worth the support section of the website is now set up to accept Service Requests relating to the BMPCC. It is my belief we should consider this to be another sign release is imminent. Accordingly, I have lodged a request questioning whether or not the BMPCC supports UHS-II SD cards.

Their response will be posted here will shortly after I have read it myself. The query will also be made at Blackmagic's SMPTE 2013 Exhibition stand when I am there later in the week should there not have been a response from the support team by then.

E&OE
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Nieuw

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 3:28 pm

TheDoco.Co wrote:For what it's worth the support section of the website is now set up to accept Service Requests relating to the BMPCC. It is my belief we should consider this to be another sign release is imminent. Accordingly, I have lodged a request questioning whether or not the BMPCC supports UHS-II SD cards.

Their response will be posted here will shortly after I have read it myself. The query will also be made at Blackmagic's SMPTE 2013 Exhibition stand when I am there later in the week should there not have been a response from the support team by then.

E&OE


Thanks, I am curious, bye the way I am not an expert but there seems to be a difference between the UHS-II card interface speed and the UHS-II actual writing speed.... the newly announced Toshiba cards seem to be UHS-II compliant cards, but their writing speed still varies and is lower for the 64 GB card than for the 32 and 16 GB cards (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2013_07/pr1601.htm. https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/bus_speed/). Important to know is whether the BMPCC has the extra physical contacts needed to support the higher UHS-II writing speeds....

Hans
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 3:58 pm

everyone is so on the edge getting in this thread as its getting closer to the end of july, it has me laughing LOL.

I cancelled my preorder. 1 because i couldn't decide on a lens which is a petty reason but the main reason is because im disabled and in a wheelchair. so say there is a delay or im far on the pre-order list and i get it closer to fall, i wont be able to use it till next spring since my body really cant handle cool weather for long.

im pretty much safer buying it when stores have it in stock so im not sitting on a camera i cant use.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:08 pm

@Hans, some cards may not necessarily read/write at the full speed of a compliant interface.

The way I see it BM will come back with one of three possible answers on the UHS-II question:

1. Yes the BMPCC has a fully compliant UHS-II interface.
2. Yes the BMPCC has a partially compliant UHS-II interface and details of any limitations.
or
3. No, the BMPCC is not compliant with UHS-II.

Here's hoping the answer is number 1!

Either way the maximum throughput will be limited to the lower of the card speed or the interface speed less any overhead that may apply. The overhead can come in many forms, by way of example just adding a 2m USB extension cable between a USB3 UHS-II compliant card reader and my laptops USB3 port wipes about 20% off the throughput achievable if the reader is connected directly.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:09 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Samjack wrote:EOSHD has cancelled accepting that BMD will miss its delivery target.


What you typed makes no sense (at least not in English).

-


Commas are generally overused on the Internet. The meaning of the sentence is clear to this old English major...or are you intentionally being obtuse?
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:27 pm

Briwil wrote:Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
What delay are you referring to?
The phrase is "start shipping".

BMD promised they'd start shipping the new cams by the end of this month. If you take a glance at a calendar, you'll notice the end of July is still several days away. Plenty of time for them to start shipping by their self-imposed deadline.

See also:
viewtopic.php?p=63406&sid=7e98900098f53bc74d0756cbf4a0a06f#p63406

-


Yeah, I've seen that post of yours, and I have to say, that's just you making things up. When did BMD ever say that shipping to the dealer is what they meant by "Shipping July"?
Which, by the way, is what's plastered all over the Pocket's webpage, "Shipping July", not "starts shipping".
Just like it also says the camera shoots Raw, no asterisk mentioning anything about it being added later through a firmware update, so they better hope to god that function is working when it ships or they could very likely have a handful of countries going after them for false advertising.

Stop defending them in every single post, they're not going to give you a free camera.


======================

As I explain in the post linked-to above, most manufacturers don't ship directly to end-user customers. Instead they ship to distributors, who in turn ship to dealers, who then ship to end-user customers. In many cases there can be additional layers in-between, or delays due to customs, etc. It's the rare case of a manufacturer shipping directly to end-users. In general, BMD doesn't ship directly to end-user customers.

Also, when most manufacturers say something like, "Shipping July", it means that at some point in July, quite often on the last day of the specified month, they'll start shipping an unspecified number of products to their distributors. In most cases, a phrase like "Shipping July" doesn't mean shipping will start July 1st. It means shipping will start before the month has ended. I know some people here don't want to believe it, but Aug. 1, 2013 isn't here yet. Again, don't take my word for it, look at a calendar.

In most cases, manufacturers initially start shipping relatively small quantities of a new product, and then gradually increase the size/quantity of shipment batches as production ramps-up. It's not unusual for the first few batches to be relatively small, with quantities somewhat uneven at first, and then smooth out over time. This means that end-users won't receive products they ordered or pre-ordered all at once, in one huge batch, all at the same time. Far from it. In most cases what instead happens is, at first, only a few end-user customers receive their products, and then over time gradually more & more products are shipped out & received by end-users.

BMD has not published shipment quantity information in the past, and they are adamant that they won't do this, so don't bother asking them to. So, it takes a while before we have a sense of how many cameras are going out and when, and of course this "information" is inherently vague & anecdotal. It is what it is.

The above is not making excuses for BMD. The above is the boring, mundane truth.

I don't have a problem with people (myself included) criticizing BMD when they actually make a mistake -- such as if they actually miss one of their self-imposed deadlines -- but I do have a problem with people slandering BMD about things they haven't actually done.

In this case, anyone complaining about BMD "missing" this year's "Shipping July" deadline, when it hasn't yet passed, is making a fool of themselves, or worse.

For example, EOSHD: I have a problem with him slandering BMD because he can't read a calendar and doesn't know how manufacturing & shipping typically works.

Concerning RAW: BMD has stated publicly many, many times that the new cams may or may not ship initially with the new lossless compressed RAW feature enabled, and that at worst it would be available as a free firmware update "soon" after initial shipping. There's nothing unusual about this. Many manufacturers have made features available in the same/similar fashion, and will do again in future.

Meanwhile, prepare to release the hounds -- or not -- come Aug. 1, 2013.

-
Last edited by Peter J. DeCrescenzo on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:29 pm

@Adam,

Glad to see your still laughing mate - there does seem to be an over abundance of self importance, seriousness and impending doom hanging over this thread, personally I suspect an element of industrial cyber sabotage on the part of unscrupulous competitors.

Having spent time discussing the camera with BM staffers earlier today (well yesterday now...) I think we will see the camera sooner rather than later and whilst none of them were willing to put their balls on the line with a delivery date there was an air of optimism and a genuine (and not just marketing hyped) belief they would ship on time or very close to it. I also got the impression the 4K will run a week or two behind the pocket rocket but that was just a "vibe" I got.

Time will indeed reveal all and there is still a full week to go so chill people!!!
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:34 pm

mhood wrote:
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Samjack wrote:EOSHD has cancelled accepting that BMD will miss its delivery target.


What you typed makes no sense (at least not in English).

-


Commas are generally overused on the Internet. The meaning of the sentence is clear to this old English major...or are you intentionally being obtuse?


In this case, not. I truthfully read & re-read what he posted several times and couldn't figure out its exact meaning, other than getting a vague sense that EOSHD (Andrew Reid) has his panties in a twist about something.

-
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 4:38 pm

@Peter... or his pockets lined with Canon silver!!!
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Richard Oakes

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:12 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
Briwil wrote:Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
What delay are you referring to?
The phrase is "start shipping".

BMD promised they'd start shipping the new cams by the end of this month. If you take a glance at a calendar, you'll notice the end of July is still several days away. Plenty of time for them to start shipping by their self-imposed deadline.

See also:
viewtopic.php?p=63406&sid=7e98900098f53bc74d0756cbf4a0a06f#p63406

-


Yeah, I've seen that post of yours, and I have to say, that's just you making things up. When did BMD ever say that shipping to the dealer is what they meant by "Shipping July"?
Which, by the way, is what's plastered all over the Pocket's webpage, "Shipping July", not "starts shipping".
Just like it also says the camera shoots Raw, no asterisk mentioning anything about it being added later through a firmware update, so they better hope to god that function is working when it ships or they could very likely have a handful of countries going after them for false advertising.

Stop defending them in every single post, they're not going to give you a free camera.


======================

As I explain in the post linked-to above, most manufacturers don't ship directly to end-user customers. Instead they ship to distributors, who in turn ship to dealers, who then ship to end-user customers. In many cases there can be additional layers in-between, or delays due to customs, etc. It's the rare case of a manufacturer shipping directly to end-users. In general, BMD doesn't ship directly to end-user customers.

Also, when most manufacturers say something like, "Shipping July", it means that at some point in July, quite often on the last day of the specified month, they'll start shipping an unspecified number of products to their distributors. In most cases, a phrase like "Shipping July" doesn't mean shipping will start July 1st. It means shipping will start before the month has ended. I know some people here don't want to believe it, but Aug. 1, 2013 isn't here yet. Again, don't take my word for it, look at a calendar.

In most cases, manufacturers initially start shipping relatively small quantities of a new product, and then gradually increase the size/quantity of shipment batches as production ramps-up. It's not unusual for the first few batches to be relatively small, with quantities somewhat uneven at first, and then smooth out over time. This means that end-users won't receive products they ordered or pre-ordered all at once, in one huge batch, all at the same time. Far from it. In most cases what instead happens is, at first, only a few end-user customers receive their products, and then over time gradually more & more products are shipped out & received by end-users.

BMD has not published shipment quantity information in the past, and they are adamant that they won't do this, so don't bother asking them to. So, it takes a while before we have a sense of how many cameras are going out and when, and of course this "information" is inherently vague & anecdotal. It is what it is.

The above is not making excuses for BMD. The above is the boring, mundane truth.

I don't have a problem with people (myself included) criticizing BMD when they actually make a mistake -- such as if they actually miss one of their self-imposed deadlines -- but I do have a problem with people slandering BMD about things they haven't actually done.

In this case, anyone complaining about BMD "missing" this year's "Shipping July" deadline, when it hasn't yet passed, is making a fool of themselves, or worse.

For example, EOSHD: I have a problem with him slandering BMD because he can't read a calendar and doesn't know how manufacturing & shipping typically works.

Concerning RAW: BMD has stated publicly many, many times that the new cams may or may not ship initially with the new lossless compressed RAW feature enabled, and that at worst it would be available as a free firmware update "soon" after initial shipping. There's nothing unusual about this. Many manufacturers have made features available in the same/similar fashion, and will do again in future.

Meanwhile, prepare to release the hounds -- or not -- come Aug. 1, 2013.

-


My concern isn't that BMD have missed the shipping date they have specified, coz clearly its still JULY. My beef is with the overall disrespect and lack of communication to their customers. Basically what it will come down to is cameras arriving on peoples door steps without them knowing what the thing even does. Does it shoot RAW? The spec sheet says yes, the testers say no. BMD Say...well they say nothing as usual! unless they release a statement stating that it doesn't shoot RAW before shipping then they are breaking the law on false advertising. The website clearly says it shoots RAW (not has the potential to shoot RAW) and the last interview with a BMD representative said it will shoot RAW on release. This is why people have put money down! It is why I have put money down! If it then ships without RAW and BMD keep silent as they always do then they are false advertising regardless of what they say it might do in the future.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:36 pm

It seems to me that BM has adopted a lot of Apple's design esthetic and PR techniques. Apple's PR strategy is to reveal products at events and then say nothing unless absolutely forced to. I'm sure we'll hear something from BM by Thursday. They're having an event here in LA and I don't think the people running that even want to take the brunt of people's disappointment. I don't mind if the camera is a month or two late, making great things is hard. That's just my opinion and I can understand other people's frustration.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:41 pm

Everyone should get exactly what they pay for.

If I ordered a camera that shoots RAW and ships in July, that is exactly what I expect to get. And on the other end, I'm sure Blackmagic expect to get exactly the $995 they're asking for it. So if they give me a little less that my end, can I give them a little less? That would seem fair, no? No Raw, and a few weeks late... how about $895? It won't happen, but it would be fair.

And yes, the lack of communication is pretty lame UNLESS there is nothing to communicate. If the camera will ship is July with all announced features, then there's nothing to say.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:46 pm

josephrose wrote:Everyone should get exactly what they pay for.

If I ordered a camera that shoots RAW and ships in July, that is exactly what I expect to get. And on the other end, I'm sure Blackmagic expect to get exactly the $995 they're asking for it. So if they give me a little less that my end, can I give them a little less? That would seem fair, no? No Raw, and a few weeks late... how about $895? It won't happen, but it would be fair.

And yes, the lack of communication is pretty lame UNLESS there is nothing to communicate. If the camera will ship is July with all announced features, then there's nothing to say.


So why complain about something that hasn't happened yet?

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josephrose

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:50 pm

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
josephrose wrote:Everyone should get exactly what they pay for.

If I ordered a camera that shoots RAW and ships in July, that is exactly what I expect to get. And on the other end, I'm sure Blackmagic expect to get exactly the $995 they're asking for it. So if they give me a little less that my end, can I give them a little less? That would seem fair, no? No Raw, and a few weeks late... how about $895? It won't happen, but it would be fair.

And yes, the lack of communication is pretty lame UNLESS there is nothing to communicate. If the camera will ship is July with all announced features, then there's nothing to say.


So why complain about something that hasn't happened yet?

-


I don't know, ask the complainers. I'm not complaining. Though to be honest, I'm feeling a bit skeptical that everything is going to go exactly as promised.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 5:53 pm

Prevailing City wrote:It seems to me that BM has adopted a lot of Apple's design esthetic and PR techniques. Apple's PR strategy is to reveal products at events and then say nothing unless absolutely forced to. I'm sure we'll hear something from BM by Thursday. They're having an event here in LA and I don't think the people running that even want to take the brunt of people's disappointment. I don't mind if the camera is a month or two late, making great things is hard. That's just my opinion and I can understand other people's frustration.


And yet your post somehow manages to come across as a back-handed complaint about something that hasn't happened yet, because you acknowledge "people's [unfounded] disappointment".

I understand that people are frustrated about something concerning BMD, but I don't have to accept their reasons for it, or support them in their illogic (IMHO).

We should wait until BMD's self-imposed deadline has passed, and then release the hounds if necessary, but not a day before.

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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 6:03 pm

Haha I was just thinking BMD is just reading all of this not responsing on purpose and they have tons of pocket cameras ready to ship this week and love how much there being bashed that once they ship on time with RAW they can sit back and read all the positive comments. Kind of funny to think about it being a possibility.
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Re: Introducing Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera

PostTue Jul 23, 2013 6:10 pm

Peter917 wrote:Haha I was just thinking BMD is just reading all of this not responsing on purpose and they have tons of pocket cameras ready to ship this week and love how much there being bashed that once they ship on time with RAW they can sit back and read all the positive comments. Kind of funny to think about it being a possibility.


That would be Good!
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