BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

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William Allum

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BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 01, 2018 2:03 am

Happy New Year Everyone!

Apologies, I'm sure this has been asked a few times but wanted to get some opinions.

I have the BMPCC Metabones Speedbooster, paired with a Sigma 17-50mm 2.8 zoom lens Nikon fit.

17mm is just about wide enough for me, but the image seriously suffers from being soft on the left hand side. I cant get either side to be totally in focus at the same time. I think the alignment on the speedbooster is slightly out.

I was thinking to get the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 art lens, but if the speedbooster is out then there's not much point. I don't have experience aligning lenses either.

So my other option is to get the SLR magic 10mm 2.1 without the speedbooster. This should hopefully be tack sharp, but I would loose the zoom function.

I'd really love to retain a zoom lens as it's indispensable with most run and gun situations I have to use the camera in, but I also cant be wondering if my wide shots are truly in focus or not.

Anyone have similar experiences, or suggestions? Many thanks.
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Uli Plank

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 01, 2018 3:32 am

Well, if you want a wide zoom, go for the Panasonic 12-35mm. It's the most flexible for run and gun on the BMPCC.
Regarding your problem: While there's higher probability that your lens or SB is de-centered, it's not impossible that your mount could be off. You may check that before investing into another lens. Use a wide, they are more critical.
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Ryan Payne

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 01, 2018 4:41 am

If you can get a return for the speed booster and replace it under warranty. Otherwise if it's out of warranty check if they can fix it for a cost?
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 01, 2018 5:55 am

Thanks guys, I guess I should really check it properly. Unfortunatly I’ve had the speed booster for a few years, so I guess I will have to pay. :(
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Leon Benzakein

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Have you tried adjusting the infinity focus on the speedbooster?

http://www.metabones.com/article/of/inf ... oster-only

I have the Sigma 18-35 Nikon mount and was able to make the lens parfocal by doing the adjustment.
This video is not for Metabones but similar.
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Kim Janson

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 01, 2018 6:16 pm

If 18 mm with speedbooster was not wide enough, 12 mm native will not be either. With BMPC speedbooster the sigma 17-35 mm f1.8 is around 10 - 20 f1.1 Anyway nice combo, but if you want wider than that maybe Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH
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Uli Plank

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 8:56 am

Well, the 7-14mm has massive distortions on the BMPCC, which lacks the in-camera corrections of Panasonic models. Plus, it's quite slow (I would have suggested it otherwise).

If you get your SB fixed, the Sigma 18-35mm would be an excellent lens, but quite front heavy, in particular with the SB. It's size also counteracts the unobtrusive form factor of the BMPCC.

If you could imagine a prime, there are other options, like the Cinegon 10mm for C-mount. Watch out to get the model with a 55mm front filter, there is another model that doesn't fill S-16.
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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 1:30 pm

Getting a zoom certainly gives you ease and flexibility at the cost of the stealth factor. If you decide on a fixed focal length, I’d go with the SLR Magic 10mm you are considering.


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Leon Benzakein

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 2:56 pm

It is true that when you use the Sigma 18-35 plus speedbooster, the BMPCC is no longer a "pocket" camera.
The Sigma 18-35 is a heavy lens and changes the way you can hand hold the BMPCC.

You need to decide if you want portability or a camera that will permit you to have different angles of view.

I have chosen the latter. I have both the speedbooster and a dumb adapter. This allows me to use the crop factor to my advantage.
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Kim Janson

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 4:02 pm

For pocket size WA Samyang 7.5 mm, it is a fish eye though.

It is clear, but not totally terrible effect and the lens is good, this is with BMMCC that has the same crop factor than BMPC

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rick.lang

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 4:24 pm

And the Samyang/Rokinon 10mm for MFT is another wide option that is rectilinear.


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John Paines

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 4:44 pm

The Laowa 7.5mm f/2 MFT is also rectilinear. Barrel distortion is well controlled. You can find samples on line. Zooms in this range, Olympus and Panasonic, are slow and expensive, if the Panasonic 12-35 isn't wide enough.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 9:32 pm

Another optio are the 9.5, 8, and 5mm Super 16 Super Speeds from Optima and Elite. I have the 9.5mm Elite, it has less distortion than the 12mm Zeiss Super Speed. Zeiss also made a nice 9.5mm, however, these are PL mount lenses.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 9:41 pm

Wow, thanks for all the amazing feedback guys!

Portability aren’t such a huge concern for me as I used it with a cage and rail system anayway, and any extra weight would almost be an advantage.

The sigma 18-35 mm with my speedboster would be my ideal combo, I just have to see what I can do about the focus on the left.

A wide aperture is also a must for me, as I shoot with low light quite often.

So if I can’t use the speedboster for wideshots, I’ll probably have to go with something like the 10mm alt magic. I’ll have a look into those other wide lenses you all mentioned as well.

Thanks again for all the help! :)
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Uli Plank

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostWed Jan 03, 2018 12:03 am

If you rig the Pocket like a cine camera anyway, I can only second the Sigma 18-35, it's a fantastic lens.
Just get your SpeedBooster fixed.
But first check the camera itself to make sure you don't have a faulty mount. I'm not sure if it could not even be that the sensor is minimally tilted. Such problems show up with wides more than longer lenses.
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Rauno Linnamäe

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostWed Jan 03, 2018 9:40 am

There are also the 11-16 and 11-20 from Tokina that are reasonably wide with or without a Speed Booster.
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Uli Plank

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 1:11 am

Never tried the 11-20, but IMHO the optical quality of the 11-16 is quite inferior to a Sigma with the SB.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 15, 2018 5:43 pm

Sorry for the delay in getting back, but I've only just had chance to check my camera.

I'm thinking maybe there's something wrong with the actual camera mount.

I took off my regular lens and speed booster, and placed a wide MFT directly on it and it seems to have the same issue when wide.

So I'm wondering what the best way to go about fixing this is, the cameras out of warranty now.

Will Blackmagic handle repairs, or are there any other places that will handle it? I'm London based.

Thanks.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 15, 2018 6:06 pm

Contact your local BM Support office, or try a lens mount specialist like MTF Services in London.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 15, 2018 6:55 pm

Great, thanks Denny. Just sent BM a support email, hopefully they'll get back soon.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 23, 2018 12:05 pm

I sent BM some pictures of the problem with my camera, and this is their response.

After looking at the serial number of the camera, this does appear to be out of the warranty period and due to the nature of the behaviour you mentioned, I do not believe we would be able to offer a repair procedure in this case.

As this is out of warranty and we do not have a repair procedure available, this may now be classed as beyond economic repair and I recommend you contact your insurance company for further assistance regarding this if you have one.


I realise my camera is out of warranty, but I'm happy to pay for repairs, however it seems like they wont be keen to help me on this.

So I guess the only other option is to use someone like MTF Services. Does anyone have any experience using them? It's a shame BM couldn't help more. Thanks.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 23, 2018 6:59 pm

Yes, the Pocket camera is basically not really repairable, they just get replaced. MTF Services is very good rom what I u derby’s day, but it might cost as much as buying a new camera? :roll:
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Last edited by Denny Smith on Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Howard Roll

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 23, 2018 7:04 pm

Sorry about your luck. Unfortunately the Pocket camera is pretty much disposable, use it until it breaks then chuck it. Stateside a qualified tech charges about $120hr. To actually get to the sensor mount the camera needs to be completely disassembled. If you do get all the way in there without causing more harm there' no XYZ adjustment of the sensor just a couple shims. The only realistic repair would happen if the tech found one or two of these screws was loose but that seems highly unlikely.

You might effect some hack repair/modification by shimming the actual mount to account for the sensor offset but really you're just throwing darts. What do they say? Don't throw good money after bad.
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Ryan Payne

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostWed Jan 24, 2018 2:39 am

Howard Roll wrote:Sorry about your luck. Unfortunately the Pocket camera is pretty much disposable, use it until it breaks then chuck it. Stateside a qualified tech charges about $120hr. To actually get to the sensor mount the camera needs to be completely disassembled. If you do get all the way in there without causing more harm there' no XYZ adjustment of the sensor just a couple shims. The only realistic repair would happen if the tech found one or two of these screws was loose but that seems highly unlikely.

You might effect some hack repair/modification by shimming the actual mount to account for the sensor offset but really you're just throwing darts. What do they say? Don't throw good money after bad.


I guess it'd depend if the sensor was too far forward or too far back on one side.

Too far forward would be ideal in that if you could even get some thin washers and shim the mount on one side to even it out. Knowing by how much would be trial and error. It'd probably be best to also source new hex screws as the originals will mostly likely strip from screwing and unscrewing.

Not sure what you'd do if the sensor was inset. You'd need to somehow remove some of the mount to even it out.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostWed Jan 24, 2018 10:53 am

Thanks guys.

Denny I sent MTF Services an email yesterday, but no reply yet. Will give them a ring later today if I don't hear anything.

How frustrating, I bought the camera first and only had a very, very cheep MFT lens to use on it. It wasn't until much later I could afford the speedboster and use a wider lens, which is when the problem appeared. I guess it's always been there, but didn't show up until then. Wish I could have sent it back during the warranty, what a pain.

Going to try my lenses on a friends BMPCC and double check first before I do anything else.

Thanks again guys.
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostWed Jan 24, 2018 10:24 pm

Sounds like a plan William. I sold my Pocket after it was no longer under warranty, and got the better build Micro Cinema Camera. I could not see very well on the Pocket’s lcd, and wound up getting a better monitor anyway, so the Micro’s lack of a build in lcd Monitor was not a problem. The Micro also has a newer and improved video processor, adds 60fps as a result, better cooling and a quicker sensor readout times, resulting in less RS artifacts.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostThu Jan 25, 2018 1:44 pm

That's interesting, I never really considered the Micro because of the lack of screen. I think I'd need to get an EVF to make it work for me.

I'm very confused now, just tried the metabones and Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 on a friends BMPCC and it suffers the same problem. So maybe it's not the camera, and it's the speedbooster.

The issues I saw on the Lumix lens, maybe that was barrel distortion? Could that be the same with the Sigma lens, it's a an APSC lens.
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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostThu Jan 25, 2018 6:24 pm

William Allum wrote:That's interesting, I never really considered the Micro because of the lack of screen. I think I'd need to get an EVF to make it work for me.


I was in the same boat - paired withe smallHD502 + sidefinder it works fairly well (the rigging is a bit clunky as the combined 502 and sidefinder isn't exactly small)
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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostThu Jan 25, 2018 7:33 pm

Another RVF option is the new Cineroid, with the HD resolution screen. Also, if you can rig 12-VDC ext. power, the BM Ursa Mini EVF is excellent withnthenWooden Camera mod, which allows easy setup on a Micro. I use the Cineroid, it was less expensive.
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Armen Amirkh

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostSun Jan 28, 2018 11:14 pm

I own Zeiss 9.5mm/f1.2 and pretty happy with it. I use it with B4->m4/3 adapter. It has a tiny fall-off in the cornes with 82mm IR-filter put on but not a big deal :)
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 29, 2018 12:23 am

Thanks for the advice guys. Will look into EVFs more in the future.

Does anyone have any experience tweaking the BMPCC Metabones Speedbooster? After taking a closer look, I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with mine, but not 100% sure.
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Kim Janson

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 29, 2018 6:48 am

I bought a BMPCC Metabones Speedbooster from ebay 220 euros, because someone had done some tweaking on it. It was reported to have ok optics, but problems with electronics. At arrival I saw it was clearly a bit mishandled, but nothing really wrong. just tried to focus far off so that the metal parts where making contact with the electrical pins and they had lost one plastic cover... easy fix and I was happy.

In general there is no tweaking needed, just doing the focusing as per instructions if needed and keeping the FW up to date. The FW has greatly improved over years especially regarding focusing.

The optics adjustment threads can be a bit loose fit allowing the element to mis align. If it does not focus evenly, just dry to fix the element alignment, but if the focus is ok, no reason to touch.

William Allum wrote:...

Does anyone have any experience tweaking the BMPCC Metabones Speedbooster? After taking a closer look, I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with mine, but not 100% sure.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 29, 2018 9:39 am

Hi Kim, thanks for the reply. Great, this is exactly what I was wondering.
My speedbooster is passive, Nikon fit. When I had a look at the optics adjustment, it looked slightly out, lifted up on the side with the screw. When I loosened it straight away it dropped back down. It took me quite a few tries to get it in a reasonable good place, but it’s so loose, it seems to jump the tracks very easily, and tightening the screw always seems to lift it up.
It’s this lifting up of the optics that must be causing my skewed focus. I’m going to test it out more today, but it still doesn’t seem 100%.

The optical adjustment seems quite loose, and it doesn’t seem to fit in its threads very well at all. On the metabones website it says you should just be able rotate the optics to make small adjustments to the focus, but it’s almost impossible to do this on mine without it jumping tracks or becoming completely loose. Is this a common thing with metabones, or is there something wrong with mine?

Thanks, and apologies for the ramble.
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Kim Janson

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostMon Jan 29, 2018 3:05 pm

Mine is a bit loose fit too. One could dry a small drop of non permanent thread lock, but the risk is that it locks too much and further adjustments are difficult if not impossible.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 30, 2018 8:42 am

Thanks again Kim. Good to know I'm not the only one. I'll probably avoid using thread lock in that case. I'm going to test the camera out at work today, and see how it looks with the adjustments I have already made.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostTue Jan 30, 2018 3:23 pm

I've tried it out today properly out side, and I think I've fixed it. So looks like it was definitely the speedbooster that was out.

Thanks again for everyones help.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostWed Feb 28, 2018 3:34 pm

I finally got the Sigma 18-35mm 1.8 Art lens, and very impressed with it so far. Not too much distortion from the Metabones either, although I really need to test it more. But pretty happy so far.

I'm looking for a good variable ND filter for it now. I was considering the 'Tiffen 72mm Variable Neutral Density Camera Lens Filter', but since reading a few review it seems to have some issues. Can anyone suggest a good VND?

Many thanks.


Bill
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Jim Giberti

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostWed Feb 28, 2018 5:07 pm

Yes, the Tiffen VND w/ Hoya IR cut.
Everything has "some issues" but the Tiffen works great...as well as the best and better than most.
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William Allum

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Re: BMPCC Wide Angle Lens?

PostThu Mar 01, 2018 12:33 am

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the reply. I thought that might be the case.

Is it possible to use the Hoya IR cut with the Tiffen VND at the same time, what's the benefit, does it reduce some of the issues solely using the Tiffen?

Thanks.

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