Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

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AppleseedTV

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Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostTue Apr 09, 2013 4:20 pm

Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k ? I have my own BMC for 2 months (after waiting about a year in line), but now I feel that I been fooled by BMC...
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Steve Lee Jean

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostTue Apr 09, 2013 4:22 pm

Sell your BMCC try to selk your Resolve dongle. Bite the bullet of 1k or so. Much cheaper than a upgrade oath imo.
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Robert RED

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostTue Apr 09, 2013 7:06 pm

I have canceled my order for the 2.5K ;0)

And in July i enjoy the new 4K and the pocket ;0) hihi

TAKE CARE

RED

P.S.: visit my BMDCC Channel, maybe that comforts you :0)

https://vimeo.com/channels/bmdcc
Last edited by Robert RED on Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Remo Pini

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostTue Apr 09, 2013 7:13 pm

Robert RED wrote:And in July i enjoy the new 4K and the pocket ;0)


A big LOL to that :)
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Dan MCcready

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostWed Apr 10, 2013 7:25 pm

I cancelled my BMCC and changed to the 4k BMPC model with 3dbroadcast, they are at Nab at the minute placing orders, you just have to email them.

Just sell your BMCC and order the 4k BMPC model, you may even make a small profit.
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Nikolay Smirnov

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostWed Apr 10, 2013 10:05 pm

remopini wrote:
Robert RED wrote:And in July i enjoy the new 4K and the pocket ;0)


A big LOL to that :)

That guy just doesn't know what he has signed for :)
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nonlinearedits

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostWed Apr 10, 2013 10:54 pm

Nikolay Smirnov wrote:
remopini wrote:
Robert RED wrote:And in July i enjoy the new 4K and the pocket ;0)


A big LOL to that :)

That guy just doesn't know what he has signed for :)


hahaahahahahahaha +10,000
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostThu Apr 11, 2013 12:09 am

AppleseedTV wrote:Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k ? ...


Not really. The BMPC-4K has a completely different sensor & processor electronics than the BMCC. The BMPC-4K costs $1K US more than the BMCC.

Because the parts are different, each cam can do things the other can't. Basically you decide what features/capabilities you want, and buy whichever cam has them.

BMD is happy to sell you the features of the BMPC-4K: To get them, you buy the new cam when it's eventually available. But that'll be months from now. Why should BMD give you a discount on a BMPC-4K? The price of their cameras (including the one you already own) are so low they essentially already have a "discount" built-in. You already got a "discount".

If you want the BMCC's features, then you're all set; you already own it. If you want the features of the BMPC-4K, then buy that. It's up to you to decide if you keep or sell your BMCC.

Cheers.
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Benton Collins

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostThu Apr 11, 2013 12:10 am

Be cautious in canceling or getting rid of your 2.5K BMCC camera unless you have a suitable backup camera or plan. This may be the perfect example of "A bird in the hand is worth MORE than two in the bush".
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostThu Apr 11, 2013 12:48 am

Benton wrote:Be cautious in canceling or getting rid of your 2.5K BMCC camera unless you have a suitable backup camera or plan. This may be the perfect example of "A bird in the hand is worth MORE than two in the bush".


If you are not being paid for using a BMC camera.....
The 2.5K "EF" will be in stock everywhere by next month and from purchased day to delivery day less than a week, Cancel if you want, or Sell it, Do what you like, and if you don't like the 4K version sell it and buy the 2.5k again, This is of course If you can not afford one of each, this is not rocket science just Dollars and cents.

The funny thing is about the Announcement is it brought out the conspiracy theorists :mrgreen:
There is no conspiracy, it's Just Business, And Business I welcome every year!
Philip Bloom wants camera manufacturers to slow down, and make a new camera every 5 years :lol:
Because he buys every new canon camera (or any camera for that matter) every year a new one is released! :o
Well now what a problem that must be Philip 8-)
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Benton Collins

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostThu Apr 11, 2013 1:17 am

Darryl Gregory wrote:
Benton wrote:Be cautious in canceling or getting rid of your 2.5K BMCC camera unless you have a suitable backup camera or plan. This may be the perfect example of "A bird in the hand is worth MORE than two in the bush".


If you are not being paid for using a BMC camera.....
The 2.5K "EF" will be in stock everywhere by next month and from purchased day to delivery day less than a week, Cancel if you want, or Sell it, Do what you like, and if you don't like the 4K version sell it and buy the 2.5k again, This is of course If you can not afford one of each, this is not rocket science just Dollars and cents.

The funny thing is about the Announcement is it brought out the conspiracy theorists :mrgreen:
There is no conspiracy, it's Just Business.


My point was mainly for those who get paid for shooting with the BMCC now. I plan on getting the 4K but would never sell my 2.5K I have in hand at this time on the promise that the 4k will be in my hands at the end of July. For me, the 2.5K is plenty good enough and I'm quite content waiting until the growing pains have been worked out on the yet undelivered 4K until it shows up on a dealer site with a buy it now button next to it.
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Darryl Gregory

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostThu Apr 11, 2013 1:32 am

Benton wrote:
Darryl Gregory wrote:
Benton wrote:Be cautious in canceling or getting rid of your 2.5K BMCC camera unless you have a suitable backup camera or plan. This may be the perfect example of "A bird in the hand is worth MORE than two in the bush".


If you are not being paid for using a BMC camera.....
The 2.5K "EF" will be in stock everywhere by next month and from purchased day to delivery day less than a week, Cancel if you want, or Sell it, Do what you like, and if you don't like the 4K version sell it and buy the 2.5k again, This is of course If you can not afford one of each, this is not rocket science just Dollars and cents.

The funny thing is about the Announcement is it brought out the conspiracy theorists :mrgreen:
There is no conspiracy, it's Just Business.


My point was mainly for those who get paid for shooting with the BMCC now. I plan on getting the 4K but would never sell my 2.5K I have in hand at this time on the promise that the 4k will be in my hands at the end of July. For me, the 2.5K is plenty good enough and I'm quite content waiting until the growing pains have been worked out on the yet undelivered 4K until it shows up on a dealer site with a buy it now button next to it.


I agree and that was my point, I wish people would relax, the Cinema 2.5K is awesome, and yet
it maybe... just maybe selling used for less over the next few weeks, But that is no reason to sell yours period.

I sold both of mine and one was "NIB" the other used with less than 11 hrs on it, My Point is I had no work for it after the first job, and my next job I was using The 5D, Now I am very happy I sold both my 2.5K Cinema Cameras before the NAB announcement for a profit (Just intuition), but It was pure luck that I had no other jobs/clients that wanted to use it at the time.

If I still had one of my 2.5K Cinema cameras I would certainly keep it and use it daily.
But I don't, and because I don't I'm $1400 in the Green! for other things I need.
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Robert RED

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostThu Apr 11, 2013 9:03 am

Seriously,
If you are in possession of the BMDCC, i would not trade for the 4K!

First. Just to have waited a year

Second. Makes amazing images

Third. Apparently the BlackMagic wants to do the same Firmware BMDCC / BMDPCC / BMDPC (lossless CinemaDNG RAW)

Fourth. Unnecessary loss of money

I had the good fortune of being able to cancel my order.

I hope you help

TAKE CARE

RED
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Eric Mc Guire

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 4:41 pm

I love my bmcc, but having waited so long, being so patient and so broke now, I was really sad that they announced 4k just a week after I receive mine. I wished too there was some kind of an uphrade path. A global shutter is all I ever wished for from day 1 : I
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 5:23 pm

Eric Mc Guire wrote:I love my bmcc, but having waited so long, being so patient and so broke now, I was really sad that they announced 4k just a week after I receive mine. ...


Be happy! Work that thing! The BMCC is an amazing and highly-capable camera! :D

If the BMCC is good enough for John Brawley to use it on >3 broadcast television series, it might just good enough for you? Plus, it costs $1K US less than a BMPC-4K, and has somewhat better DR & sensitivity.

The "upgrade path" is: Sell your BMCC (or not) & buy a BMPC-4K (or not). BMD builds a "discount" into the low-low prices of their products. There's no such thing as a "free" upgrade; it's built-into the cost of products.

Talk about first world problems ...

Cheers.
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Csaba Nagy

Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 5:41 pm

I don't believe any one expects it to be free...If they do they seriously need to wake up.

But BMD should go about the upgrade as RED has with the dragon sensor upgrades, and with the scarlet.

Have us pay the difference( if not more ) between the 2 cameras, and sent in for an upgrade.

The only thing holding something like this back, is the need for some kind of organized system between the re-sellers and BMD. since BMD is not a retailer.

Physically, i'd expect there to be nothing other than that interchange of some internal components, ( the new SDI ) and of course the new Sensor..Other than that from that I have read, heard and seen...its near identical...

and if RED can do it, what says BMD cant...
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Eric Mc Guire

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 5:52 pm

No, I believe the whole shutter system would be the most complicated part, if ever possible, to change in the camera.

Peter I understand your point and I agree with you on the quality of the product I already have. But we may be in different situations in a different field too.

On my side, I will not necessarly be able to add a new camera to my workflow anytime soon. That 3 000$ was a great deal for me and it still is. Also, my primary usage of the camera is for action, sci-fi and visual fx shots. I am also preparing a shoot with many actors and a lot of people right now, and I am very happy to be able to film that with such a quality camera. BUT with hand held shots, moving subjects to be composed with VFX and non-static camera seuquences, the rolling shutter is making me very nervous.

Since I don't plan to be able to upgrade to a new camera in the next few years, I would be very happy to be offered an upgrade solution that I would benefit way more than just a few more pixels on my screen. Rolling shutter is a nightmare for vfx.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 6:28 pm

schoolpost wrote:Physically, i'd expect there to be nothing other than that interchange of some internal components, ( the new SDI ) and of course the new Sensor..Other than that from that I have read, heard and seen...its near identical...


Unless it's designed to be modular like a Red, it won't be that easy. It's expensive to make a highly integrated system like a camera (or computer, for that matter) that's modular enough to be upgraded like a Red is. The up side to Red's approach is that you can essentially customize your camera, and to upgrade from a Scarlet to an Epic you can swap out the brain, then plug in the rest of your components, like the lens mount, display, recorder, audio module, etc. The Black Magic design follows the Mac Mini and iMac approach, which throws modularity out the window in favor of integration. It saves manufacturing cost. My guess is that it was one of the decisions that BMD made in order to hit their target price points for these cameras, which by any rational standard are ridiculously inexpensive.

and if RED can do it, what says BMD cant...


Price. Designing their cameras around a modular architecture, that is one that can be easily replaced component by component, increases the cost of manufacturing it.

Apple's product line shows some good examples of this; compare the price of the Mac Mini and the price of the iMac to the price of a comparably equipped system, including the monitor. Most of the non-Apple computers are assembled in a factory, and you can do things like swap the graphics card. The iMac's graphics card is built into the motherboard, along with the memory and everything else, even the monitor.

THAT is why it has higher value/cost than most machines. You're getting the same stuff, made by the same manufacturers like nVidia and ATI, but you can't just pop a card out of a slot and replace it.

So we get a tightly integrated box, and to upgrade it we have to sell/trade it in and shell out bux for a new one.

Look at Red's prices. It's $9K just to get their cheapest BRAIN, i.e. the box with the sensor in it, that has lots of pugs that other stuff can talk through.

I'm ok with that tradeoff, hence I'm not canceling my BMCC preorder, and I put a deposit on a Pocket cinema camera also. I can wait for 4K, but the Pocket camera is just what the doctor ordered for some of the documentary work I have planned. :)
Rakesh Malik
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Pete Proniewicz-Brooks

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 7:15 pm

schoolpost wrote:I don't believe any one expects it to be free...If they do they seriously need to wake up.

But BMD should go about the upgrade as RED has with the dragon sensor upgrades, and with the scarlet.

Have us pay the difference( if not more ) between the 2 cameras, and sent in for an upgrade.

The only thing holding something like this back, is the need for some kind of organized system between the re-sellers and BMD. since BMD is not a retailer.

and if RED can do it, what says BMD cant...


You've given one major reason, BMD don't deal direct, it's not logistically feasible.

Others include the camera isn't built with this in mind, RED have built in outlet systems for the old parts.


schoolpost wrote:Physically, i'd expect there to be nothing other than that interchange of some internal components, ( the new SDI ) and of course the new Sensor..Other than that from that I have read, heard and seen...its near identical...


Well there are other likely differences, likely a beefed up processing board for a start. Basically the externals are mostly the same but inside is likely mostly new.

Retailers could offer a preferential trade-in scheme, but given the model BMD are likely working on (large amounts of cheap low margin kit) BMD organizing an upgrade scheme through retailers or on their own just likely doesn't make sense.
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Peter J. DeCrescenzo

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSat Apr 13, 2013 7:15 pm

schoolpost wrote:I don't believe any one expects it to be free...If they do they seriously need to wake up.

But BMD should go about the upgrade as RED has with the dragon sensor upgrades, and with the scarlet.

Have us pay the difference( if not more ) between the 2 cameras, and sent in for an upgrade.

The only thing holding something like this back, is the need for some kind of organized system between the re-sellers and BMD. since BMD is not a retailer.

Physically, i'd expect there to be nothing other than that interchange of some internal components, ( the new SDI ) and of course the new Sensor..Other than that from that I have read, heard and seen...its near identical...

and if RED can do it, what says BMD cant...


I suspect it's because RED and BMD have very different product pricing, profit levels, and capitalization.

If BMD could do it, they might. However, it's clear that they either can't do it (because it's not a sustainable business model for them), or because they just don't want to do business that way.

Part of the reason RED products sell for the price they do is because they've built-into their prices the "cost" of offering upgrades. Hardware upgrade programs cost companies a lot of money to capitalize up-front and to manage going forward.

BMD could either decide to go a similar route, which would probably require them to raise their prices, or instead do what they've been doing for years now: Sell state of the art technology, in products with relatively powerful but purposefully-limited feature sets, for low-low prices.

This approach appears to have been profitable for BMD, so I don't expect it to change any time soon. Who knows, maybe they'll start raising prices and offer hardware upgrades, but I doubt it.

Cheers.
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josechu

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Re: Is it possible to change (upgrade) your 2k camera to 4k?

PostSun Apr 14, 2013 6:47 pm

Personally ill be selling mine soon, once I'm done with this project.... Ill wait to see the quality of the 4k.... and then I decide between the mft and the 4k....

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