recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

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Norbert von der Heidt

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recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 12:12 pm

Hi folks,

I'm planning to purchase a Blackmagic Ursa Broadcast asap but only if I find a reasonably priced secondhand top shelf Fuji or Canon B4 mount HD lens with an 18x to 22x zoom plus 2x extender.

There are just too many choices from Fuji & Canon with varying quality levels and specs that it's too difficult to compare easily so I'd like to have recommendations from those in the know about such things. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated so I can end up with maybe have two options from each to search for. The price to be negotiated depending on lens specs, age and condition, etc.

Thanks in advance for the help. :)
Norbert von der Heidt

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rick.lang

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 4:44 pm

I’d recommend going with Fujinon HA or UA zooms. There are zooms that put an emphasis on covering very wide angles, but I’d heard their images were not the best as those cameras with a wide through telephoto range. Before I bought the Fujinon HA20x7.8B M10 Cine Zoom (no servo), I was ready to buy a local copy of the HA18x7.6BERM with servo. There are similar zooms on eBay, but the XA zooms are lower quality than the HA which are lower than UA zooms. If you find a good copy of the HA18x7.6BERM, it might suit your needs. If your starting focal length is 7.8mm, you can get up to 22x tele in the XA family. If you find the Cine Zoom, you may want to grab it even though it doesn’t have a 2x extender.

My Cine Zoom is 156mm at the far end and when you combine that with the crop factor of shooting HD, it’s close to a 600mm lens on 135 film. That’s a very good reach for me at least.


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Howard Roll

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 6:03 pm

For HD Lenses Fujinon has 3 categories

XA-good (1 lens in this category the older ones are prosumer zooms avoid them)
ZA-better
HA-best

The A and S designations are for SD, 2/3" and 1/2" and the UA is for UHD.

You can pick up a brand new XA20SX8.5BRM for less than 6K at B&H. I'd probably take that over a higher spec used lens unless it was in perfect condition with at least a 30 day return window. These lenses are pretty rugged, if it looks beat up, it's probably been through hell. I've used the HA and ZA versions side by side in multicam production and you really don't see much difference between them from the 17-25x range. Where you can see the big difference is in the long box lenses and the wides. The biggest difference in these lenses can be seen at the extreme ends of the zoom, or wide open.

Avoid anything that says Digipower or has selectable aspect ratio converter, these lenses are ancient, designed to be used with 4:3 and 16:9 sensors, if that gives you any clue to their age. An extender will likely be useless on the UMB as well since it is already using an extender. I'd expect mush would be the order of the day at anything other than an f8. Repair costs are going to start at about a grand and go up from there so factor that into your purchase decision as well.

Good Luck
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Stephen Press

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostSun Feb 11, 2018 6:50 pm

There are some real bargains still out there but it pays to know a friendly lens tech :)
Worth checking out is the Fujinon AT2 series. Its a SD lens but I've had 2 tested and they both came up in the middle of HD spec. The engineer who tested it said he wasn't surprised, they were the top of the range before HD lenses were widely available and some are still test better than some modern HD lenses.
An extender isn't useless as you can cover the full sensor (ish)
"A cameraman with out a camera is just a man"
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Norbert von der Heidt

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 2:53 pm

Stephen Press wrote:Its a SD lens but I've had 2 tested and they both came up in the middle of HD spec.


That may well be the case but the lens I get needs to also handle the Broadcast's 4K imaging, so that's why I want to find a lens with the best specs possible to give me the best chance of getting, if not great, then at least good UHD images.

Cheers
Norbert von der Heidt

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Stephen Press

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 6:08 pm

HD lens spec I meant. So as good at UHD or 4K as a more modern HD lens for a fraction of the cost.
That said I've yet to have a paying 4K gig for broadcast TV. Actually though I have had 2 UHD shoots with a Fujinon AT2. Both clients were very happy with the images. Hope to get some links to these after they go to air.
All I'm saying is if you can get some older lenses tested you might be surprised at how well some of them come up. I wish I'd kept a copy of the MTF results. Missed marketing opportunity :)
I might try to get him to test it again and post the results.
"A cameraman with out a camera is just a man"
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Denny Smith

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostTue Feb 13, 2018 6:14 pm

I agree with Stephen, trying to buy something in anticipation that it might be needed is not the way to go.
Get what will cover your current requirements, and currently Broadcasting is at UHD, just barley starting, and full 4K is a ways off, except for cable streaming sites like NetFlix.

Since yipou are new to this type of camera, get a Fuji HA or one of the SD lenses like Stephen recommended. Yesterday’s top of the line lenses are better than today’s lower end 4K range. A good 4K B4 lens is going to cost you more than you are going to want to spend ($15-20K). :roll:
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Norbert von der Heidt

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostWed Feb 14, 2018 3:36 am

Stephen Press wrote:Actually though I have had 2 UHD shoots with a Fujinon AT2. Both clients were very happy with the images. Hope to get some links to these after they go to air.


Thanks for your input, Stephen. I'm currently watching a Fuji AT17x7.8BDERM-M28C for about $1000, the only thing still to ascertain is if it is a B4 mount as it should a "M28B" desgination at the end from what I know. Would this be an acceptable grade lens in your opinion?

Cheers
Norbert
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Denny Smith

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostWed Feb 14, 2018 6:21 am

M28C indicates a Digital Zoom lens. The “B” in BDERM code indicates a B4 Mount, DE Ratio extender, RM manual focus Servo Zoom.
Hope this helps
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Stephen Press

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostWed Feb 14, 2018 6:43 am

AT or AT2? No if just AT. If AT2 DigiPower then worth a look. Thanks Denny love learning stuff like that :)
Mine is "A10x4.8BEVM-G28"I was lucky that I knew the lens, had worked with it on other HD cameras so grabbed it when it came up for sale.
If you can find out what year it was made that helps, closer to 2000 the better. A lot of the early 2000's HD lenses were just re-branded AT2's.
They brought out "Quick Frame" in 2000 so if it has that then definitely worth a look.


https://www.fujifilm.eu/eu/products/opt ... es/history
"A cameraman with out a camera is just a man"
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Norbert von der Heidt

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Re: recomendations for HD lenses for Ursa Broadcast

PostThu Feb 15, 2018 9:11 am

Stephen Press wrote:AT or AT2? No if just AT. If AT2 DigiPower then worth a look. If you can find out what year it was made that helps, closer to 2000 the better. A lot of the early 2000's HD lenses were just re-branded AT2's.
https://www.fujifilm.eu/eu/products/opt ... es/history


Thanx Stephen
Yes, it is an AT2 Digipower, I'm waiting to get date info from the seller but he's away for another week. Thanx guys for all your help and info. :)

Cheers
Norbert

AT2 lens comp.jpg
AT2 lens comp.jpg (155.91 KiB) Viewed 519 times
Norbert von der Heidt

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