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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:30 pm
by Cary Knoop
Wayne Steven wrote:You could maybe argue that 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 from a single chip bayrr was, as it is unaltered levels, but the debayering can stuff things around

Hopefully the future generation of sensors will do away with all Bayer patterns and give us full resolution instead of the 50-60% effective resolution we get after debayering.

The 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 models could not be raw as the three channels have to become inter-dependent, that's why for instance 4:2:2 cannot be represented by an RGB model but must be represented by for instance a YCrCb model which uses inter-dependent channels.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:47 pm
by Gene Kochanowsky
I really don't care what it looks like. I don't do professional work, so my cameras and rigs do not have to impress any clients. What I care about is the images. Hopefully we'll see its images soon.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:22 pm
by Ellory Yu
Ok, I'm not a fan of the camera design and it's not S35. But I'll admit it is one heck of a camera with so many feature with a full 4/3 sensor at such reasonable price point that I'm ready to get it, probably 2. I wonder if that screen will hold in daylight without a sunshade. Well done BMD.

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:32 pm
by rick.lang
And a camera that can truest be described as lowlight with up to 25,600 ISO. I think it will be a phenomenally popular camera!

It’s not going to fit in a pocket, but it fits the bill on so many fronts.

I was surprised it shoots CinemaDNG but it’s only a firmware release away from shooting ProRes raw. I thought that would be announced today, but if the team has practically killed themselves to get this out, I think they deserve our appreciation. And I still expect ProRes raw will come.

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:34 pm
by Que Thompson
absolute game changer! selling my gh5 and finally coming back to the blackmagic family!!!!!! i'm SO excited! you could buy 2 for the price of a gh5s... :o

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
by Savannah Miller
It's likely exactly the same sensor in the GH5s and the Kinefinity terra 4K. If that's the case it's extremely good in Low Light, and dynamic range is reasonable. The dynamic range might be less than the original pocket cinema but not too bad.

The real killer though is the 60fps raw. The GH5s 10-bit 400mbps All-I codec is not bad but this is far superior.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-CIN-12


It's basically a GH5s PRO at half the price.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:37 pm
by Ben Mart
rick.lang wrote:And a camera that can truest be described as lowlight with up to 25,600 ISO. I think it will be a phenomenally popular camera!


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+1

I bet the battery life will be 20mins max.
Bmpc4k going to drop in price:-)

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:42 pm
by illegalstudios
Any ideas what I should to do with my Ursa Mini 4K now? After today announcement, nobody will buy Mini anymore, they killed own camera line :P

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:43 pm
by Linell Roy
im loving it. downside is we gotta wait till september :( :( :( i want it now hahhah

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:53 pm
by rick.lang
Welcome home, Que! We missed you.


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:56 pm
by Denny Smith
Well, at least the target date is more realistic, and they may get it released sooner. ;)

The Ursa Mini is still viable, as a larger sensor, Global Shutter Camera, that can be setup without rigging it, is still a good camera and while the PL version is no longer available, the EF Mount is still a good buy at $3,995.
Cheers.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:57 pm
by Howard L Hughes
I'm gonna put in some overtime this summer so i can buy 2. 2 of these with the Original pocket will be my cam setup for my web series. Can't beat this at all. only time will tell on the low light performance, and any other performance hiccup like we had with the first pocket but all in all... I'm in.

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:58 pm
by rick.lang
Here’s hoping by September, they deliver ProRes raw as a further inducement and a feature that wasn’t promised. A great bonus if it’s there. I could use the lowlight feature for a wedding I have in late September! But I would really benefit from longer recording times by having it support ProRes raw!

As for 25,600 ISO, I’d likely just shoot with something like 6,400 ISO at a wedding so I’ll bet that will look very useable and be able to blend with the URSA Mini 4.6K shooting 800 ISO.

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:00 pm
by Piotr Naumowicz
Ok guys I'm usually sitting quite but I think we can say BMD nailed it this time. Basically, it is a DSLR type camera that shoots 4k 60p 2k 120p (cropped) in a form that fits small photo bag. It has fullhd screen to compose shots, with speedbooster it will be 1,3x crop from full frame. It has dual ISO 13 stops of DR. I feel like they have seen my my dreams about a perfect camera and just made it :-) All with BMD colour science (raw and proress) and it is friction of the price of competing proposals.

Thank you Santa :-)

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:01 pm
by Chris Chiasson
I love it. Glad that leaked image was fake. The camera seems to be almost everything I wanted. And the price? It’s definitely my new camera. And thank you for the usb c port.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:06 pm
by rick.lang
And for anyone getting started with BMD cameras, including DaVinci Resolve Studio 15 in the $1,295 price is just sweet!


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:10 pm
by Daniel Bănică
I just wonder if my old metabones speedbooster EF is going to work with it. It's an important thing in case I want to sell my bmpcc.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:13 pm
by Denny Smith
And with the 2K window, it should still work with S16 lenses — sweet. Glad I waited, and did not jump on the GH5S. Now, the looong wait :!:
Cheers.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:14 pm
by Gene Kochanowsky
Did anyone see that it comes with Resolve Studio? This all sounds too good to be true. I eagerly await sample footage.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:16 pm
by Ben Mart
illegalstudios wrote:Any ideas what I should to do with my Ursa Mini 4K now? After today announcement, nobody will buy Mini anymore, they killed own camera line :P
Don't think they have mate... sdi connections, vlock batteries, global shutter s35 sensor.
Using the new camera will be like the old bmpcc either plugged in or modded to duck with a big brick on the top, bottom or on the back. Don't think the mics or the amps will be useful either.




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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:19 pm
by James Harkness
I seriously cant contain myself....my poor ursa mini 4K...hmm Im seeing the posts about battery life. I guess it depends what you are shooting. The global shutter is something really nice that I think I overlook, or take for granted I should say. Tough. I will probably be pulling out the Pocket Cinema Camera every single time and my Ursa mini 4K will be collecting dust truthfully. The size of the pocket camera. and its probably good in low light compared to my *stuck at* 400 ISO ursa mini.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:42 pm
by innerside
Please confirm I am wrong - It won't fit Ronin MX - it is too wide?

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:44 pm
by Gene Kochanowsky
The only thing that concerns me about the BMPCC2 is that BM could have fallen back to their old habits of over promising and under delivering. I thought that they had leaned their lesson and would announce no product that was not shipping. If this is one of those deals where shipping in September means September of next year, I may have to swear off BM products until they finally learn their lesson.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:54 pm
by Xtreemtec
He was pretty clear the product is finnished.. But they have to start up mass production.. ;)

They already have working models on the NAB floor.. As he mentions the models there will be heavier then the actual product due too a different material for the housing.

So in September the wearhouse will be stocked with 100.000 cameras to deliver.. Better that way then have a batch of only 10.000 and a huge backorder list ;)

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:54 pm
by Ellory Yu
Que Thompson wrote:absolute game changer! selling my gh5 and finally coming back to the blackmagic family!!!!!! i'm SO excited! you could buy 2 for the price of a gh5s... :o

The GH5 has 5-axis stabilization. The GH5s does not so it's fair to compare it with the P2.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:56 pm
by Gene Kochanowsky
Xtreemtec wrote:He was pretty clear the product is finnished.. But they have to start up mass production.. ;)

They already have working models on the NAB floor.. As he mentions the models there will be heavier then the actual product due too a different material for the housing.

So in September the wearhouse will be stocked with 100.000 cameras to deliver.. Better that way then have a batch of only 10.000 and a huge backorder list ;)


Deja Vu! Ursa Mini all over again.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:58 pm
by Ellory Yu
Grant in his announcement at NAB today mentioned that the BMPCC4K can shoot stills. Any info on the of stills?

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:16 pm
by Piotr Podermanski
Aha! The new BMPCC and Fusion integrated into Davinci with Fairlight new options,
is just.... as doc said... portable film & vfx studio.

Back-To-The-Future-Doc-Brown-s-Video-Camera-2 (1).jpg
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:39 pm
by MarcusWolschon
I can't wait to get details about
  • Is that DCI-4K (4096px) or Ultra-HD? >= BOTH
  • Can I SYNC it to other cameras (because Resolve never worked to sync via audio before)? => "1 x 3.5mm Stereo Input. Can also be used for Timecode input."
  • Can I use the 3.5mm jack, mini-XLR and the internal microphones at the same time? (record LTC timecode via 3.5mm while having an external Rode Stereo-Videomic X with at least 1 channel and the internal microphones as backup)
  • Does it support the new prores-raw in addition to cinema-DNG? NO, IT DOES NOT
  • Bitrates needed for 4K raw to UHS-II (do my Sandisk Extreme Pro work?) and USB (Is there a way to use my existing Atomos Caddies with Sandisk Ultra II SSDs) => EOSHD has these
  • What can I do with the Bluetooth? (set camera-time to phone-GPS like with the GH5 is a great feature)
  • why did they choose these super-expensive batteries?
  • Why this super ugly 90s design?
  • How to mount it onto anything at all without the camera rotating around that ONE 1/4"-UNC thread in the bottom?
  • Can the battery door be opened when it's on a tripod video head?
  • Why does "what's included" list a dust cap but no battery?
  • Can a sun-hood be attached, so the non-tiltable screen is visible?
  • The entire body is slightly tilted. Can this still be used on a shoulder-rig without getting reflections of the sun in your eyes at all times?

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:50 pm
by Brad Hurley
MarcusWolschon wrote:I can't wait to get details about

[*] why did they choose these super-expensive batteries?


I saw somewhere that they estimate a 60-minute battery life. That's probably optimistic, but still way better than the 15-25 minutes you get from the current Pocket's batteries.

MarcusWolschon wrote:[*] Why this super ugly 90s design?


Did you see https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera

Some of the faked images made it look really ugly, but this looks pretty sharp to me. But really what matters is the image quality, features, and usability. If those are good, who cares what it looks like?

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:00 pm
by Steve Holmlund
Brad Hurley wrote:
MarcusWolschon wrote:I can't wait to get details about

[*] why did they choose these super-expensive batteries?


I saw somewhere that they estimate a 60-minute battery life. That's probably optimistic, but still way better than the 15-25 minutes you get from the current Pocket's batteries.



The current BMPCC technical specs page says 1 hour of continuous recording. I've never come close to that so I hope their estimate of the BMPCC 4K is much more accurate.

Steve

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:10 pm
by Craig Marshall
Great 'Cinema' camera with wonderful specs at an attractive price but without an EVF or even flip out LCD screen, it is totally unsuitable for my work. Scintillating picture quality is irrelevant if it's out of focus.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:17 pm
by MarcusWolschon
Craig Marshall wrote:Great 'Cinema' camera with wonderful specs at an attractive price but without an EVF or even flip out LCD screen, it is totally unsuitable for my work. Scintillating picture quality is irrelevant if it's out of focus.


Is an external HDMI monitor on that top 1/4" UNC thread an option for you?

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:42 pm
by grubezebro
The only information I couldn't find is what dual native iso values are going to be?

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:47 pm
by Denny Smith
Yes, you can attach a SmallHD Focus OLED Monitor to that top mount, or a good quality EVF?
Cheers

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:13 pm
by Iain Philpott
Ellory Yu wrote:Grant in his announcement at NAB today mentioned that the BMPCC4K can shoot stills. Any info on the of stills?


I'd love to know what this is capable of re stills. Is this the first motion camera that you can take a proper still with the press of a shutter. Could make it even more of a game changer for the press guys where video is more important than the stills?

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:45 pm
by Robert Niessner
I've already preordered the camera. Let's see what my vendor will tell me tomorrow.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:47 pm
by Craig Marshall
MarcusWolschon wrote:Is an external HDMI monitor on that top 1/4" UNC thread an option for you?


No, it would catch or snap off in a heatbeat. Sure, I could rig it with an EVF with diopter adustment, shoulder mount etc as there's no IBIS but that just defeats the purpose of this camera. I'll stick with my HD Sony S35s and wait for the URSA Pro 'Micro'. For my travel work, it's more about ergonomics than resolution.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:59 pm
by John Paines
Robert Niessner wrote:I've already preordered the camera. Let's see what my vendor will tell me tomorrow.


What can he tell you, other than making something up? The retail version doesn't yet exist. I ordered from the big U.S. BMD retailer -- "Expected availability: Sep 3, 2018".

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:00 pm
by Jo Unruh
I never had battery duration issues with my pocket :D

IMG_5344.JPG
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:32 pm
by Wayne Steven
Looks rather good. I might buy one. Then John will have to put up with me :). But we'll see what else is coming.

I would prefer it with half the volume in size, to make it easier to hold and carry. It would be good if BM (this is a brainiac official request) made the sensor, controls, processing boards, and storage, seperate, so the camera could be rehoused. I.would love to make a case like my old view cam, where the sensor and controls could be in a handle that pivots with the screen, allowing either one to pivot by hand on the go. A mod maker could make a camcorder version, or something used to Canon cx15 or desperately needed extra wheels. I will.t wheels for zoom, focus, gain and adjustments for aperture, shutter, and colour, to flip round or auto set. I imagine that will be good for weddings.

Another brainiac request. Could we please have a proper HDR mode to give us 16-17 stops?

I'd prefer a second USB slot and a second cfast card.and 14 bits+ to bring out hidden dynamic range to make 15 usable stops.

I.think.there will.be.a market for add-on batteries with twin USB space. Another request, that both the USB and the cards be used as backup recording when the primary storage device fails or is full and is being swapped out. Even USB hub support to allow the device to switch drives as one filld6. So, if here is also a glitch in recording, rather than drop frames, it dumps them to other drives to be picked up latter.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:36 pm
by Wayne Steven
News Flash:

I have figured out, the carbon fibre texture should work with it's looks and make it look better. It may look sleek and shiny.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:42 pm
by Wayne Steven
Jokes: "September,.which year"?

"That ISO is only half that of the latest phone".

"When I get the 8k version, my papers aren't likely to fly away".

"Who let Ronnie Corbett loose in your pocket".
Image

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:59 pm
by Akpe Ododoru
A pity it might not be able to fit onto my MoviM5 :(

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:03 pm
by Chris Leutger
I love my original pocket and my wish list was mainly two:

1. Global Shutter
2. Better Low Light performance

I guess I still have something to dream about for the future. I'll be interested to see what the color science is like. I love the look of footage from my Pocket. I had been recently thinking about buying another as a backup. But it makes more sense now to see what people think of this one, especially those that might be pairing it with the earlier version. I'd already off-boarded my power and sound so all I really care about is the image. I do like the fact that I can get a little wider with current lenses...and like being able to grab stills. Getting full Resolve with the camera is making me rethink my currently rising Adobe fees......

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:21 am
by Chris Chiasson
Hand a chance to finally look over everything. Love almost everything. It even has a photo button! USB C port can not only charge the camera (possibly making USB C phone chargers an option), but I can duck tap a USB C SSD on my tripod handle, and record at any frame rate at the highest settings! Plus an XLR mini mic port AND a standard mic jack! And if the high ISOs work out great, then getting this camera is gonna save me money.

Only downsides I see is no flip out screen (which does suck, but I can fix that issue with a monitor), no ProRes RAW for Final Cut users (this can be fixed later though), mounts doesn’t seem to have any anti-twist holes in them (though I guess I can get a cage), and a part of me wishes it was small enough to pack in your pocket like the original. And that battery is definitely not gonna last long, lol (but again, there’s many power options). I don’t think the battery door is designed around a dummy battery. I hope the door is removable so a modded one can be added. No Global shutter kinda sucks too.

Beyond that, I’m getting a lot for the price. Competitors have weather proofing, in body stabilization, Anormophic mode, and continuious auto focus, but they’d have to drop their prices big time for me to care about the Pocket 4K lacking these. Besides, gotta leave something for Pocket 4K Pro I guess, lol.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:37 am
by Yue Shi Lai
Chris Chiasson wrote:Competitors have weather proofing, in body stabilization,


Both weather sealing and IBIS are antithetical to the cooling required for a cinema camera. It is exactly the reason, why stills photography manufacturers are mostly stuck on 8 bit, long GOP codecs (and sometimes still overheats before their duty-circumventing 30 min).

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:46 am
by Chris Chiasson
Yue Shi Lai wrote:
Chris Chiasson wrote:Competitors have weather proofing, in body stabilization,


Both weather sealing and IBIS are antithetical to the cooling required for a cinema camera. It is exactly the reason, why stills photography manufacturers are mostly stuck on 8 bit, long GOP codecs (and sometimes still overheats before their duty-circumventing 30 min).


Yeah, weather sealing would definitely cause overheating, and we know BMD cameras become super hot. Probably won’t get that till someone finds a way to cool small devices, or invent camera processors that don’t heat up as much that BMD can use. It’s why I have doubts on their in body mic’s being usable beyond a reference track, with the loud fan that’s most likely inside.

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:12 am
by Iain Philpott
BM state clearly their position in the name 'Cinema Camera'. No serious DOP, with his crew, is going to want IBIS or autofocus. If you want those things there are plenty of other cameras to go and buy. Those crews won't be bothered about open vents because they will have rain covers. I think it is going to be an awesome camera, and yes you may need to add a viewfinder or monitor depending how you are going to shoot but make no mistake this camera is a game changer. My fear is (I have pre-ordered) that the volume of orders will shock BM and even if BM ship in September I may not see mine till this time next year or even later. This camera does change everything (particularly) if it is good in low light and the audio pre amps are spot on. Battery life at an hour is cool with me. My mission now is to find a tiny HD EVF. Any suggestions!

Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K???

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:36 am
by rick.lang
I haven’t been able to find the weight of the production version of this camera. The prototypes did not use the carbon fiber polymer whatchacallit that even Grant wasn’t sure about. That lightness may be another feature.

I also couldn’t find how many nits the “super bright” monitor is rated for. That should be a known but it’s not in the specs. I suspect it’s 1000 nits and that’s decent, but a higher value even better since you can’t tilt the screen and the sun can be so bright on a screen.

Anyone found any sample video yet?



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