Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

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Sean van Berlo

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 7:55 am

Here's something I couldn't find in the manual or menu's: can you turn the red recording light off? I'm doing some filming behind a stage at a theater right now and the red light, while still relatively dim, definitely gets very noticeable at that point.
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Oyvind Fiksdal

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 am

Sean van Berlo wrote:red light, while still relatively dim, definitely gets very noticeable at that point.


Tap it/mask. Not the best solution but a solution never the less.
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Robert Niessner

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 10:25 am

No need to tape the light. You can switch it off in the menu under SETUP -> page 3 TALLY LIGHT LED
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Sean van Berlo

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 10:35 am

Robert Niessner wrote:No need to tape the light. You can switch it off in the menu under SETUP -> page 3 TALLY LIGHT LED


Awesome, thank you very much!
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rick.lang

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:11 pm

tillkrueger wrote:Thanks Rick. Is there any info on that package available online?


Blackmagic Pocket Camera DC Cable Pack

Order Code: CABLE-CCPOC4K/DC
Now you can conveniently power your Pocket Cinema Camera 4K from a variety of different power sources. Pack includes D-tap to 2-pin, 2.5mm barrel to 2-pin and 2-pin to fly lead to create your own custom cables. All cables are 650mm long.
$55


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tillkrueger

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:35 pm

@Justin Jackson

Justin Jackson wrote:Can you list the power pack you use? I was thinking of getting the CORE PowerEdge battery to mount under/to the side of cage/camera to power it. I am not sure how long that would last. I know my current v-mount 98WH CORE powers my Sony AX53 camera and Atomos Ninja Inferna while recording for about 3 to 4 hours. I assume the BM4K uses similar power to the Atomos, which alone should run for a good 5 or so hours on the one 98WH battery I think. I would love to have a smaller battery pack that I can velcro/grip mount to the camera cage and use a hirose 2-pin to power the camera with. I dont have mine yet so not sure what the actual input needs are though.


I use an older model of an Anchor power bank that doesn't appear to be sold anymore (at least not on Amazon, where I purchased it originally)...it has about 25,000,Ah and includes 3 USB ports and two DC barrel connectors, one input for charing the power bank with the included PSU, and one output that can be switched between 9V and 12V.

While I don't see that model anymore (it wasn't cheap, at around $150), I am looking for a comparable alternative...I'll let you know if I find one, and if you do, please do post to this thread, if you can? I am looking to add one to my arsenal, that also provides USB-C power.

Does anyone know whether it is possible to both power the PCC4K via USB-C while also using it to capture to an external USB-C SSD? some sort of bi-directional USB-C splitter, or is that a pipe-dream?

I guess if I solve the power issue with a 2 pin cable connected to a power bank, then that wouldn't be necessary.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:43 pm

I suspect most of the time I will have this on a tripod or a gimbal, so shouldnt have a problem using my v-mount battery. I will most likely get that cable kit that Rick just linked. Both my vmount batteries have d-tap ports on them, and my wooden camera distribution box has 2 and 2-pin limo so hopefully that will cover me in powering this with the 2-pin plug.
I do like the idea of the smaller power bank and dummy batter (or 2-pin) setup for guerrilla style use though.
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Peter Odio

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 5:57 pm

rick.lang wrote:
tillkrueger wrote:Thanks Rick. Is there any info on that package available online?


Blackmagic Pocket Camera DC Cable Pack

Order Code: CABLE-CCPOC4K/DC
Now you can conveniently power your Pocket Cinema Camera 4K from a variety of different power sources. Pack includes D-tap to 2-pin, 2.5mm barrel to 2-pin and 2-pin to fly lead to create your own custom cables. All cables are 650mm long.
$55


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Denny Smith

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 09, 2018 6:42 pm

Ordered my new camera two months ago, and it is shipping Nov. 16 — that said, my new camera is not the BMPCC 4K, cancelled that order and ordered the new Nikon Z6. :roll:

Nothing wrong with the new Pocket, seems it is going to be a wounderful Camera. My Ursa Broadcast and Micro Studio are filling my current video needs. Need a new still camera right now, hence the Z6.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:01 pm

I've had my PCC4K for four days now and so far I'm happy with it. I haven't had a chance to check out everything but I have noticed issues others have reported like inconsistent battery status readout across different makes of battery and low audio levels for in-camera mics. I do think it a stretch to put this camera in the lineage of the original pocket. It seems more like an offspring of the cinema camera.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 6:20 pm

Gene, what do you mean it is a stretch to put this camera in the lineage of the original? Are you saying the original cinematic quality is a lot better? Or that this is a nice/big improvement?

The good thing for me is.. I have a vmount battery setup for power and a SD MixPre 10T for external audio, so both of those issues dont bother me... much. The battery bit I really want to find a smaller battery pack that can power it for 3 or so hours... preferably with hot-swap small rechargeable batteries. I gotta believe 2 or 3 18650 batteries could power the camera for a bit more than the canon one.. plug in a dummy battery in the compartment and hopefully there is a way to rig up a hot-swap option where you can replace one battery at a time without losing power. I do have a v-mount hot-swap plate as well, so I am not too worried for tripod/gimbal setups, but I am thinking in the case you just want lens, SSD and.. in my case my small rigs cage around it but otherwise no monitor, big battery pack, etc.. it would be nice to have a smaller/lighter battery setup. I am not sure the input requirements for the camera when also using USB-C recorder.. but if its 12v 1.5a in or so.. I gotta believe someone will rig up or do a DIY video on how to rig up a smaller battery option.

I primarily want the XLR audio in for a syncing track.. though again if I were to just be recording video, the on board mics I hear are decent enough for basic audio. Anything important and I am bringing my SD 10T.

Any other short comings you feel worth mentioning yet?
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Gene Kochanowsky

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 7:15 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:Gene, what do you mean it is a stretch to put this camera in the lineage of the original? Are you saying the original cinematic quality is a lot better? Or that this is a nice/big improvement?


I'm still checking out the camera so I can't say much about the image quality. My initial impression is that the original pocket seemed to me to have a better image. But so much of that is dependent on the grade and I have to learn how to grade the image from the PCC4K. I guess my reasons for saying that the lineage is more like the cinema camera is the large touchscreen and overall size of the camera. It seems more evocative of that camera than the original pocket.

Any other short comings you feel worth mentioning yet?


Again, I've only had the camera for four days, so that's all I have. I'll post more as I learn more.
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Ric Murray

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 8:49 pm

My PCC4K is coming Wednesday, but what I really can't wait for is BM Raw on it. I just shot a short on my UMP4.6K with BMRaw and it's a real game changer in both visual quality and workflow. Putting that into the PCC4K with the dual native ISO is going to create a whole new set of possibilities for a B cam/steadicam/gymbal system for budget indie film making.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 8:59 pm

Ric,

I see many people indicate this BMPCC4K as a B camera... but if the dual ISO gives it better low light than the Ursa Mini Pro, and the cinematic quality is on par (other than the 4K vs 4.6K resolution diff), do you (and others) feel this camera couldnt be an A cam? If so, is it because of the perception that it is so small and just cant hold up to the bigger cameras (even if the image quality is on par.. if not better (when accounting for low light))? I also refer to the COSMOS movie that is hopefully coming soon, shot on the original BM pocket, which as some say, may hold better cinematic quality than this.. or maybe not.. regardless.. if that camera can do a feature film, with BRAW and 4K and better low light, is it possible this could be seen making feature films? I mean, truthfully I understand that a studio putting out a few mil to 10s of millions would probably fire the DP and whoever else showed up with this as the main camera vs a RED or ARRI. I also realize the likes of me and others would easily shoot Indie with this no problem.. but I guess I am trying to figure out when technology surpasses perception... if the camera quality is as good as the $100K setups.. why couldnt you use it for A-cam material? From what I am to understand, the lens has a big role in the quality of the video anyway.. so with a good 25K+ lens, I would assume you could get as good an image from this?
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 9:01 pm

For those with the BM4K (and I guess Ursa).. can you instantly go from 60fps to 24fps and back while recording? I read someone say (or so a video) that one of the custom buttons switches to 60fps.. I was wondering if that is possible in real time.. how does the video file come out.. does it start a new file with 60p... and if you switch back to 24p.. another new file? If so, is there any drop in frames during the switch? If not, then I assume the point of the button is to more quickly get in to 60fps/24fps modes, but you would still have to stop recording, switch, the start again?
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 9:34 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:For those with the BM4K (and I guess Ursa).. can you instantly go from 60fps to 24fps and back while recording? I read someone say (or so a video) that one of the custom buttons switches to 60fps.. I was wondering if that is possible in real time.. how does the video file come out.. does it start a new file with 60p... and if you switch back to 24p.. another new file? If so, is there any drop in frames during the switch? If not, then I assume the point of the button is to more quickly get in to 60fps/24fps modes, but you would still have to stop recording, switch, the start again?


You have to stop recording to change the frame rate / use the HFR button. The HFR button saves time having to go into the menu (around 5 taps I think).
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostMon Nov 12, 2018 11:10 pm

OK.. I assumed it was like that.. but was hoping it had some instant real time switch going on.. so you can just go right in to slow mo record, then back again without having to stop and lose a few seconds in between.
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rick.lang

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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 3:09 am

Justin, it is possible the BMPCC4K could be an A camera to the URSA Mini 4.6K B camera in some situations especially when you need ISO 1600 or 3200. It could be the only camera, so that makes it an A camera. What might keep it a B camera is the smaller dynamic range. If you can keep the dynamic range of everything (except what you don’t care about) in frame to 10/11 stops, then it’s going to be compelling.


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Ray (that's what it is)

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostTue Nov 13, 2018 3:15 am

I suspect that there are not enough 'hard core' users out there at the moment and those that exist are probably still feeling the waters with this camera. I'd say that in the New Year we'll begin to find out what such users think about the camera and whether they think it could become an A camera. One compelling feature is that it's inexpensive and so you could own several and have complete compatibility. And once BRAW comes out, that could start a whole new precedent.
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Ric Murray

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostThu Nov 15, 2018 1:45 pm

I see many people indicate this BMPCC4K as a B camera...


Justin,

The Ursa MiniPro4.6K is a great camera, I've been using it for about a year and would not want to go without it. It has all the the things I want & need. I love the built in ND filters and use them all the time outdoors. The BM viewfinder is a must shooting in strong daylight for focus. It's great on a tripod or a slider, it's mass and easy access to all controls is a delight on set. I sync it's timecode to my Zoom F4 audio recorder and it gives me rock solid sync to external super quality audio etc etc. I swung for a good Tilta- follow focus with hard stops and it's a revelation. It's a true professional cinema camera. On the other hand, it is heavy on the shoulder after a while and a steady-cam set-up is $5K +-.

The Pocket will find an answer for almost all those things I list above and may make a very serviceable "A" camera for a lower priced, lighter footprint production. You will however, have to put up with a cascade of cables, power supplies, a cage, a daylight viewing monitor with hood etc that will bring you back close to the size and weight of the UMP. If you are used to doing all that with a DSLR, the Pocket will be an upgrade with a better image. For me it is worth giving up 2 stops of DR (I light most scenes a bit anyway) to be able to move the camera more and do quick "idea shots" without having to change lenses (I'm using the Oly 12-40 zoom). This is also where higher ISO and greater depth of field will be an asset.

I will likely use the Pocket for almost all hand held stuff, cranes, and gymbal/steadi shots. Even quick reverses in conversations and in small spaces. The fact that I can cut it into the UMP footage (eventually all in color science 4) without jumping through hoops just makes it even better.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostThu Nov 15, 2018 7:37 pm

Ric, sounds spot on. I would love to own the Ursa Mini Pro too.. though now that I will soon (come on BM/BH!!) have the BM4K.. I am really curious to see if a new camera is coming..e.g. maybe 6K or 8K from BM next year. As a hobbyist.. I truly have no use for that.. but I love all the tech and options it opens up, so who knows. Regardless.. I need to finish my kit before I think of a 2nd camera. Still need a couple Aputure 120/300 lights, some c-stands, and a couple lenses. Probably have to get the MetaBones too if this LensRegain doesnt work out, but its a good starter for only $150. Besides a lens, I am waiting on the Air X to see how well it ends up being before I spring for that or the LAB 3. I suspect DJI isnt sitting around either, by the time I am able to purchase one NAB will be here.. or wait maybe thats CES.

I do set up a rig.. e.g. the SmallRig frame, T5 SSD, and I am hoping some sort of hood option becomes available for the SmallRig frame for theBMPCC4K. If not I can rig something up with velcro, etc. I have the SmallRig cage + hood for my Atomos Inferno.. which I really like. So hoping they add something like this for this cage.. though this cage doesnt have any velcro holes like that one does, so who knows!

I am really really curious about audio sync with the BMPCC4K. I got stupid and bought the MixPre 10T, no clue why.. I dont do anything with sound.. not a sound guy.. but I wanted to be sure that when I record externally that I dont have to deal with syncing audio in post. I have never used timecode.. I hope it is as simple as attaching the timecode out of the SD to the camera and it just works? I assume it basically records TC data with the video so that drag/drop the audio to the timeline with the video.. it just syncs? Or do you need to do a lot of extra stuff in post (Resolve user) to get them to sync? I definitely need to watch some tutorials on that!

So is using a matte box with ND filters any better/worse than the built in ones? I assume the built in ones are just more of a convenience for outdoor sunny day shoots than having to add a matte box and filters? I did actually buy some ND filters for my matte box, but have never used them. If it isnt clear by now.. I spend way more than I should on stuff I will probably never use! But, I do believe.. having the gear makes it possible to do things that if you dont have it, you just cant do.
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Ric Murray

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostThu Nov 15, 2018 8:53 pm

Justin,

I wouldn't wait for for 6K or 8K, I think that's pretty much the point of diminishing returns. We just had our feature (shot ProRes, UHD) shown at the Arclight Culver City, a really good system & screen, in 2K DCP and the unflattering detail on actors' faces 30' high was shocking. Trust me, deliverables in 8K will be hard to look at. 8K cameras will be useful for shooting plates for SFX and other special uses, but the average human can't tell the difference between 2K and 4K at normal viewing distance. Plus trying to edit 8K footage on a system that isn't liquid cooled will be kludgy and slow at best, and good luck buying storage and rafts of GPU's. Did you buy a 3D TV? There becomes a point where tech gets in the way of telling the story.

I hate to be the one to tell you this but the BM Pocket Cinema Cam does not jam sync time code. The Ursa does, sorta, but the pocket definitely does not. It has no TC in or out connectors. You will need a secondary system like a Tenacle Sync to record LTC on one of the audio tracks if you want to auto sync with your recorder. That said, I have used wave form sync in both Premiere and Resolve and it works pretty damn well about 95% of the time. Just record halfway decent "scratch track" audio on the camera, usually just the built in mic will be ok, just crank them up to 100%, as you don't really care if your scratch track gets clipped on occasion, you just want to identify the slate and hear the slap. Put them all in the same folder in Resolve and select "Audio Sync Waveform" and they should snap together. Just be aware that you need to do it before you start to edit, and if you do multiple tracks (boom, Lav 1, Lav2) be sure to record them as a single polywave file instead of separate isolated tracks. But that's a story for another thread.
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John Brawley

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostThu Nov 15, 2018 11:20 pm

The pocket 4k (P4k) DOES jam to an external TC source.

Feed a clock to the audio jack with TC and the TC will read “EXT” while it’s connected.

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Ric Murray

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 12:03 am

Really!? I stand corrected. Will it hold sync like the Ursa or does it need to stay connected ?
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Iain Bason

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 1:53 am

Page 34 of the manual says "[Icon] Appears to the right of the duration display if the camera is running off an internal timecode after being ‘jam synced’ and disconnected."
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Ric Murray

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 2:32 am

Sounds like it’s similar to the Ursa which I usually sync to my Zoom F4 via BNC cable and will hold sync while disconnected until a battery change. I will try this as soon as I locate a bnc to 3.5mm adaptor of some type.
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Justin Jackson

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 5:57 am

Dang Ric.. you scared me! :D It is too late to return my MixPre 10T.. coulda bet a good cine lens with that money.. well.. ok a decent one. :D.

I was certain I read that it can accept timecode, thought it generates it too? Not sure but as long as it accept it the primary reason I sprung for the 10T besides the hirose power plug vs battery only for 3/6 was the timecode capability. I doubt I will ever need more than 2 inputs for anything I ever do, but just in case I have the room now to do so.
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Ric Murray

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 12:12 pm

I deeply apologize, and I am equally thrilled. The very idea of functional jam sync time code on a $1200 camera was beyond my imaginings. I have only recently started using the Ursa TC capability which is follow only, no TC Out, and found it quite effective. The only caveat is that TC integrity does not survive a shut down for battery change. On the Ursa that’s only 3 maybe 4 times a day. With the short internal battery life on the Pocket, that will be more of a pain, but still!

Justin,
The best thing about 2 system sound, is that it’s one less thing for you to worry about. A trusted sound person means camera dept. can concentrate on camera, usually resulting in better quality data from both. Also... with extra audio tracks available you can run one or even two mics into dual inputs, one hot, one -10db (scream track). Actors (and real life) loves to from a whisper to a scream.
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rick.lang

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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 3:09 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:Dang Ric.. you scared me! :D It is too late to return my MixPre 10T.. coulda bet a good cine lens with that money.. well... the primary reason I sprung for the 10T besides the hirose power plug vs battery only for 3/6 was the timecode capability. I doubt I will ever need more than 2 inputs for anything I ever do, but just in case I have the room now to do so.


I have the stable of decent Cine lenses but I’d love that Sound Devices MixPre 10T. With yesterday’s purchases I’ve already thrown cautivo the wind; I don’t even now if I can still manage the MixPre-3! Thinking about it but the 10T is the boss.

What I’d jump on is a MixPre-4T. Give us some of those added features on a simple box with three XLR In and one XLR Out. Really I don’t understand why SD can be so blind or manipulative about this. That would be their best selling box!

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Ric Murray

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 3:48 pm

Rick,

The Zoom F4 is on special at B&H last I looked. 4 or 6 XLR ins, back up track recording TC jam etc etc all under $500. If you don’t need the SD name, you can get a lot from Zoom. I’ ve Had mine for 2 years and very happy with it.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 4:50 pm

The SD, Sound Devices name is more than a label, you get world class leading high quality mic preamps in a rugged built system that is designed to support professional field productions, unlike the Zooms. You can hear the difference, and you get what you pay for with Audio equipment! ;)
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 5:30 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:I am really curious to see if a new camera is coming..e.g. maybe 6K or 8K from BM next year. As a hobbyist.. I truly have no use for that..


You already are getting a great 4K camera... you won't be needing more resolution for a LONG time.

Odds are BMD will launch a new camera at NAB because it pretty much always does, but it's also probably that it's going to be an enhanced version of the Ursa Mini lineup. My guess would be that BMD's first priorities are the global shutter option and higher frame rates. BRaw will help with higher frame rate support. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was part of the plan; BMD can enhance the internals of the camera since it owns those, but it can't drive updates to storage technology without compromising its price point. Braw gets around that limitation neatly.

Still need a couple Aputure 120/300 lights, some c-stands,


Those are on my list as well.

Besides a lens, I am waiting on the Air X to see how well it ends up being before I spring for that or the LAB 3. I suspect DJI isnt sitting around either, by the time I am able to purchase one NAB will be here.. or wait maybe thats CES.


I'm hoping that the Air X turns out to be as good as it looks. When I'm at NAB I might try to pester the Gudsen folks to get a review copy. :)

I am really really curious about audio sync with the BMPCC4K. I got stupid and bought the MixPre 10T, no clue why..


It's a phenomenal recorder, and you'll probably have some sound folks jealous... but you could also probably sell it and get a smaller one. I'm using a MixPre-6 + TentacleSyncs. Since they can generate timecode on an audio channel I can use JB's method. (And plan on trying it. No idea yet how well that will work on my Epic-W.)

I assume it basically records TC data with the video so that drag/drop the audio to the timeline with the video.. it just syncs? Or do you need to do a lot of extra stuff in post (Resolve user) to get them to sync? I definitely need to watch some tutorials on that!


It's very easy. Put 'em all in the same bin. Right click the bin, select the appropriate sync option, and go. I always use one of the append options, and so far haven't had much success wit the waveform sync, but the mics on the Pocket might be sensitive enough for that to work.

Sync by waveform HAS worked when there was enough signal in the scratch track... so a Tentacle sync might do it for me that way, since each one has a built in scratch mic. Clever, those guys ;)

So is using a matte box with ND filters any better/worse than the built in ones? I assume the built in ones are just more of a convenience for outdoor sunny day shoots than having to add a matte box and filters? I did actually buy some ND filters for my matte box, but have never used them. If it isnt clear by now.. I spend way more than I should on stuff I will probably never use! But, I do believe.. having the gear makes it possible to do things that if you dont have it, you just cant do.


Internal NDs are a bit more convenient, but also less flexible; you have only the options that are built in, and that's that. You'll definitely need the NDs for oudoor filming though. Otherwise you'll ONLY have the deep focus option.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 7:03 pm

Rakesh.. you are def right about the camera. I just read somewhere that the big thing right now in music videos and in some other lines of video is 4:3 again. Because most people watch video on their phones, vertically now. WTF is the world coming too! The screen is already too small at 5" to 6" in my opinion.. though I do admit to watching youtube when I am out and about sometimes. Still.. I cant stand trying to watch video in vertical mode, and I despise recording video in that manner. One of my fav video of all time (
) haha.. cracks me up every time I watch it. Yet it is so true! Star Wars..the skinny edition! Just say no to vertical video! But what I read really points to what many of you have said.. 4K is more than enough for a long time to come. I am sadly.. as some of you can no doubt tell by my hobby purchase of a MixPre 10T that I may never get to use.. or at least near its potential.. I tend to want the "better stuff" within a decent level of affordability. I tend to think the BM4K is plenty good for any sort of video I will ever do.. heck beyond. But, for some stupid reason I got it stuck in my head having 8K now would allow me to be ahead of the curve. For example, I was hoping, years ago, to get the first Ursa 4K the big one..and start shooting tons of RAW 4K footage for stock sites and make some money. Never happened. Now, my thought is if I could get a RAW 8K recording camera I could work on 8K RAW stock footage. Meh.. its a pipe dream and one I know I am a long ways off from.. too much other crap in life to focus on still! Maybe when 16K comes out Ill be in a better position to afford that. haha.


Man, if they had a MixPre 4T..def would have bought that instead! That would be perfect.. and smaller too! As long as it has the hirose power input and they could rework the on/off switch away from USB port.. that would be fantastic!

So.. Sigma 18-35.. I think that is a good first lens right especially with the 1 stop boost and that it actually works with the LensRegain focus/iris controls.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 7:44 pm

hahaha, that video is hilarious! awesome!

Justin, don't feel so bad about having purchased that SD...it's an amazing device and even if you don't use it to its full potential now, just the thought alone of being able to tackle *any* audio situation life might throw at you, should make you feel good...and yes, you probably could sell it at a small loss and get something else, but hey, you're a perfectionist, like me, and it's unlikely that you'd be happy with anything less than omnipotent and at the tp of its line...so put a check-mark next to your "get awesome audio capture device" to-do list item and stop thinking about it or feeling bad about it. DONE!

Speaking of which, after my disappointing experience with the Weebill LAB (already returned it to B&H) I am now also looking at the MOZA Air-3...wow, what I gimbal! Any of you know what price point they are aiming for, and whether/where it can be pre-ordered here in the USA already? Since Zhiyun failed so miserably at meeting their advertised potential, I lost a lot of faith in them and their upcoming LAB-3, which also looks great. So I am now looking toward MOZA to come through.
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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 8:00 pm

Ric, thanks for the advice regarding the Zoom 4. I wanted a device with analogue audio limiters when using the Sennheiser MKH416 (even though I’ll put digital audio into it when using the Sennheiser AVX). I spend a lot of time dealing with clipped audio that I feel will gracefully be managed by the MixPre-3/6.


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 8:01 pm

tillkrueger wrote:@Justin Jackson

Justin Jackson wrote:Can you list the power pack you use? I was thinking of getting the CORE PowerEdge battery to mount under/to the side of cage/camera to power it
Does anyone know whether it is possible to both power the PCC4K via USB-C while also using it to capture to an external USB-C SSD? some sort of bi-directional USB-C splitter, or is that a pipe-dream?

I guess if I solve the power issue with a 2 pin cable connected to a power bank, then that wouldn't be necessary.


You can only charge via the USB-C / powebank scenario - you can’t run the camera through USB power
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 8:46 pm

Craig, I was referring to powering the SD, not the camera. I will use USB-C on camera to my SSD recorder. I have a nice VMount setup.. Wooden Box distribution box (cost a crap load), CORE dual vmount battery mount.. can hot swap vmount bats.. though the weight of two on a rig may not be ideal unless it is tripod or arm/vest rig held. If the Moza air X comes through and can truly gimbal 6KG of weight.. I am sure I could fit the camera rig with rails on it.. though that may end up being way too big to fit within the area the gimbal fits the camera.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 10:03 pm

Justin Jackson wrote:Rakesh.. you are def right about the camera. I just read somewhere that the big thing right now in music videos and in some other lines of video is 4:3 again. Because most people watch video on their phones, vertically now. WTF is the world coming too! The screen is already too small at 5" to 6" in my opinion..


It's a bit of a bummer if you ask me. It's contributing to the whole "why we really don't need 8K yet" argument, IMO.

Well, that plus the fact that the minority of the people who are clamoring for 8K are really just clamoring for an excuse to be sloppier in production... much like the majority of the people who want raw want to push off the creative decisions that the cinematographer is supposed to be responsible for to the post team.

For example, I was hoping, years ago, to get the first Ursa 4K the big one..and start shooting tons of RAW 4K footage for stock sites and make some money.
Never happened. Now, my thought is if I could get a RAW 8K recording camera I could work on 8K RAW stock footage.


Most stock footage sites still only accept HD (not even 2K). Only a few are starting to adopt 4K right now... and there are only a couple that accept 8K -- to be honest, only two that I know of.

Man, if they had a MixPre 4T..def would have bought that instead! That would be perfect.. and smaller too! As long as it has the hirose power input and they could rework the on/off switch away from USB port.. that would be fantastic!


That's why I went with a MixPre-6, even though the 10T was out when I made that purchase. What swayed me from the 3 to the 6 was that Ambisonics requires a minimum of four recording channels.

So.. Sigma 18-35.. I think that is a good first lens right especially with the 1 stop boost and that it actually works with the LensRegain focus/iris controls.


Those are excellent lenses.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 10:05 pm

rick.lang wrote:Ric, thanks for the advice regarding the Zoom 4. I wanted a device with audio limiters when using the Sennheiser MKH416 (even though I’ll put digital into it when using the Sennheiser AVX). I spend a lot of time dealing with clipped audio that I feel will gracefully be managed by the MixPre-3/6.


For the record, the Zooms *DO* have limiters. The catch is that they're digital, or some hybrid or some such. The Sound Devices limiters are all analog, so they sound cleaner.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostFri Nov 16, 2018 10:05 pm

rick.lang wrote:Ric, thanks for the advice regarding the Zoom 4. I wanted a device with audio limiters when using the Sennheiser MKH416 (even though I’ll put digital into it when using the Sennheiser AVX). I spend a lot of time dealing with clipped audio that I feel will gracefully be managed by the MixPre-3/6.


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Rick, you are aware that the Sennheiser AVX has some kind of auto leveling similar to limiters?
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 5:05 am

Rakesh, my brain was thinking “analogue” but my fingers typed “audio” do I’ll fix the preceding post. No idea what Ambisonics is so I need to look that up. I had pretty much decided to go with the MixPre-3, but now I know you moved to MuxPre-6, I’ll rethink that.

Robert, thanks for the reminder re AVX limiters.


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 2:49 pm

Ambisonics is an amazing recording technique that, in a nutshell, uses a mic-capsule array to capture x, y, z and sound-pressure signals of sound, capturing a true 3-dimensional image of sound, allowing for decoding to anything from mono to 7.1 and beyond...as a matter of fact, you can even *move* the microphone after the fact, since it is a true 3d image of the sound environment that was captured...I guess it's somewhat similar to lightfield recording, in photography, where you can re-focus the camera after the photo was taken.

Rakesh, that is so cool that you're dealing with that eclectic artform! what microphone are you using, and what encoder/decoder? Any experience with any of the low-cost solutions that have hit the market and the indiegogo/kickstarter scene in the past few years? I remember that when I started to collect everything necessary to do ambisonics, I gave up when the only microphone at the time would have set me back over $3000...but with today's sub-$1000 mics it seems to get achievable again, and I even saw that one indiegogo project created a little $150 capsule that claims to be able to do it.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 4:23 pm

I wanted a device with analogue audio limiters when using the Sennheiser MKH416 (even though I’ll put digital audio into it when using the Sennheiser AVX).

Rick,
We best not start up the limiter wars that have been fought on every audio forum I'm on, but after owning the Zoom F4 for 2 years, many projects done, including a feature that recently played the LA Film Festival, I can tell you there is no better bang for the buck than the F4. I use mine with an MKH 416 and an MK-50 Senn, and the sound is great.
SD's ARE better products, but you will pay a great deal more for sound that only a very few people can tell apart. If you are doing your job as a sound mixer, you shouldn't be relying on limiters anyway. The hybrid digital limiters in the F4 are very capable when I have used them, but for truly challenging situations there is nothing like recording a "safety" track 10db below your main track. The F4 allows you to do that internally with no additional wiring, and that option beats ANY limiter as it maintains full dynamic range throughout. Overly "limited" audio sounds bad no matter how good the limiters are. If the SD equivalent is worth it to you, buy it, but mic technique is 90% of good sound. I would rather spend my sound dollars on good mics than expensive limiters.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 4:30 pm

It's very easy. Put 'em all in the same bin. Right click the bin, select the appropriate sync option, and go.


Be aware that in Resolve you can only sync 1 audio file with 1 video file using auto sync via waveform or TC. If, like me, you record iso tracks from several mics in one take (lav & boom & safety) you will have to find and sync track 2&3 by hand. The way to avoid this issue is to record your iso's in one polywave file instead of individual .wav's. I didn't find that out until after I recorded a sizable project. What a pain.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 6:40 pm

Till, thanks!


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 7:17 pm

Ric.. wait.. that is some damn good info there. You said a bit of that before and I didnt quite know what you mean. So.. like.. on my 10T, if I have 8 mic inputs.. recording to separate files.. with TC feeding to the camera.. it wont auto sync up all 8 of those in post? That is news to me.. me having never done this before and assume TC basically solved that issue regardless of tracks. Is it that the 10T, F4, etc dont add TC to each of the audio tracks? I would have assumed it would do that, and all 8 separate tracks would sync perfect in post.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSat Nov 17, 2018 9:04 pm

So.. like.. on my 10T, if I have 8 mic inputs.. recording to separate files.. with TC feeding to the camera..


Yes, that is precisely the circumstance I am describing, and I was stunned as well, as I believe this procedure works in Premiere for multiple tracks. I was told that this situation in Resolve is not a bug, but a choice to keep from getting various audio tracks synced to incorrect video.

I am not familiar with the 10T, but on the Zoom F4 you have a choice of recording individual .wav files of each track or what's known as a polywave file that is one file on disc that contains all the tracks individually. The F4 can record single tracks to one SSD card, and polywave to it's second SSD, a great feature. The single polywave file w timecode will then sync to your video file in Resolve. The trick is that there is a panel (and not easy to find) in Resolve that you must use to assign the various embedded tracks from the polywave to specific channels in Resolve. All this needs to be done in the media panel before you start editing (another mistake I made on the project in question). Another interesting "feature" is that meta data from the audio tracks (scene, take etc) over writes the metadata from the video file (electronic camera slate). I had to get all the audio tracks together, erase any scene-take-good take metadata in the audio files, and THEN sync w TC.
You can make single track files into polywaves after the fact with "Wave Agent" a free software from SD, but that just adds an extra step.

Now, all this was in Resolve 15 Beta and I have not done this procedure in later versions of Resolve, so some of the above may have changed. I would assume the 10T gives you the option of recording polywave files, but again I have no knowledge of SD workings.
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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Nov 18, 2018 12:52 am

Yes, the MixPre-x can record polywave.


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Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K!!!

PostSun Nov 18, 2018 1:58 pm

When researching this issue I did read some comments in audio forums about polywave files being slightly more prone to corruption. For that reason when I am shooting 2 system sound since then I set the Zoom F4 to record polywave on one card and single .wav's on the other. That way I can always reconstruct a poly file with Wave Agent from the individual tracks if necessary. I have not, as yet, run into any corrupted files. Oh and the F4 is below $450 at B&H these days. You can buy 2 for the price of an SD and have a backup.
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