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NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:16 pm
by Fabián Aguirre
Dear BMD,

Congratulations on the big announcement-- I, like so many, love the concept of the BMPCC4K and have already placed a pre-order. I am sure it will be a huge success.

As the owner of nearly every camera you have ever made, and the fact that 95% of our work is done on an UM46K and a BMMCC, I was pleased to hear Mr. Petty confirm plans to roll out BMD Color Science 4 onto some of the other cameras in the line. Are you able to provide a rough estimate of release?

One of the tasks that absorb so much of our time in post is matching our mini and our micro. We do it often as they are both our workhorse kits in our documentary work, but I dream of a day when it will be easier to achieve a consistent match a bit more easily, or more consistently, similar to the way RED does with its different sensors.

I realize it will never be a one-click solution, and I would never expect that as I know even sensors from the same model may vary, but the differences between our mini and our micro (and our pocket and our BMCC, for that matter), are vast. Moreover, I truly love the way our mini renders hues and its ease of grading, so I hope the inclusion of BMD CS4 will get us closer to that end. I certainly hope the new Pocket 4K will match the mini and pro more closely. As a Steadicam operator, I'm excited about being able to fly a fully-rigged 4K pocket and achieve the same or similar texture and color rendition of our mini, which I fly every week.

Finally, I know this has been mentioned in the past, but I wonder if BMD might be able to develop baseline LUTs to help us match cameras a bit better in the absence of a unified color science across cameras.

Thanks for all you do, and looking forward to this year's innovations.

Very best,

Fabián

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:51 am
by carlomacchiavello
Aces and correct DIT applied should be the solution. Now we hope bmd develop correct Dit for their camera and develop a solution for us to develop it

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Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:18 am
by rick.lang
Carlo, do you mean to say “correct IDT?”


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Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:50 am
by carlomacchiavello
rick.lang wrote:Carlo, do you mean to say “correct IDT?”


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Ops yes Rick

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Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:55 pm
by timbutt2
I'm curious what the new color science could bring to the 4.6K sensor.

One thing I'm hoping for with the next update for the URSA Mini lineup is that the Extended Video LUT and Rec2020 LUT are built in to the camera and doesn't effect the number of custom LUT spots.

Additionally, I hope Blackmagic Design finally integrates the Video Assist 4K LUT via Video Assist Setup protocol into the Camera Setup protocol. That way the LUTs aren't erased from the camera every time you perform an update, and the LUTs can be loaded on to the camera via the Camera Setup. Fingers crossed.

Either way, I'd love to hear more about what is in Color Science Version 4.

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:24 pm
by Robert Niessner
And maybe finally the ability to bake a LUT into the recording. Would be great for projects with a fast turn-around.

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:15 am
by Donnell Henry
I wonder if it will have a better highlight roll off curve. If it can come close to Arri .. I think the so called big boys will be in real trouble

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:32 am
by Jamie LeJeune
Fabián, you’ll be pleased to know that Gen4 color has been added to the full release version of Resolve 15 as an option for raw clips from BMD cameras.

It won’t be a one click match as far as I’ve seen so far on my own clips from different cameras, but it’s a far better starting point for a grade than Gen3.

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:23 pm
by rick.lang
Jamie, I assumed the Gen 4 Colour should only be used with cameras that currently support it like the Broadcast and the BMPCC4K. Otherwise I think the results will be problematic. Hopefully there will soon be support for Gen 4 on the URSA Mini 4.6K/Pro.


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Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:34 pm
by Sean van Berlo
Actually the original RAW of at least the Ursa 4.6k can be decoded with Gen 4 already. This thread goes into how that works exactly: http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?22119 ... sion/page5

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:45 pm
by Dan Keeble
rick.lang wrote: Hopefully there will soon be support for Gen 4 on the URSA Mini 4.6K/Pro.

...and the URSA Mini 4K! 8-)

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:24 pm
by Rakesh Malik
rick.lang wrote:Jamie, I assumed the Gen 4 Colour should only be used with cameras that currently support it like the Broadcast and the BMPCC4K. Otherwise I think the results will be problematic. Hopefully there will soon be support for Gen 4 on the URSA Mini 4.6K/Pro.


The color science will change how raw gets translated to image data, so it's probably going to lead to a nicer out-of-the-box image.

It's a major benefit of having one of the industry's top color science teams in house.

Grant did say during the NAB press conference that BMD would be rolling out the new color science to its other cameras, though IIRC he said it would happen after the new Pocket launched.

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:11 pm
by Denny Smith
John B. has been grading UM 4.6 footage with Gen4 color science also, quite successfully I might add
Cheers

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:14 am
by rick.lang
Thanks, Sean et al. I still suspect there are firmware changes coming to the URSA Mini camera’s that will take advantage of the Colour 4 changes. But good to know one can use 4.6K Colour 4. I noticed that when I poked around today while editing a Prores 444 XQ shoot.


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Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:13 pm
by rick.lang
I understand it makes more sense and the results will be more predictable when the URSA Mini cameras firmware updates include support for the new Colour Gen 4, but I couldn’t resist taking it for a spin a bit early. Not only did I apply Gen 4 but the video was shot last week in ProRes 444 XQ. So that might be two no-no’s but it worked for my deliverable that I graded in monochrome. Just doing the final 16 hour render for that now, after which I’ll see what I can do with a Colour grade of the same video. That’ll be a challenge.


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Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:03 am
by Fabián Aguirre
Jamie LeJeune wrote:Fabián, you’ll be pleased to know that Gen4 color has been added to the full release version of Resolve 15 as an option for raw clips from BMD cameras.

It won’t be a one click match as far as I’ve seen so far on my own clips from different cameras, but it’s a far better starting point for a grade than Gen3.


Hi Jamie,

Thank you-- I've been using the full release of Resolve 15 all week and really enjoying it. Unfortunately, I very, very, rarely shoot CDNG so I'll have to wait until BMD releases an in-camera update to the Ursa Minis, though I admit I'm considering shooting something in raw just to see how it behaves before then.

Hope you are well!

Re: NAB 2018 - BMD Color Science 4

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:30 am
by carlomacchiavello
temporarely you can build a node where you apply a lut from color 4

shoot a single raw clip with color chart, use color transform space from bmd film to rec709 or you prefer, apply on raw the CS4, build a lut, export it for camera and for you preferred NLE