Will the 4K camera ship with RAW support?

Will the 4K camera ship with RAW support in July, or will it only be ProRes until a future update?

I think raw will not be possible in 4K as there is no SDD that can handle the write speeds that you need with that amount of data...

it's a compressed lossless raw so will be fine.

From what we're hearing, the 4K camera will not ship with RAW initially. It's still not definite, but it looks like ProRes will be what it ships with, and raw will be added later. That's the last I heard.

2K, 2,5K raw uncompressed ?

2K, 2,5K raw uncompressed ?

Nope, only the Blackmagic Cinema Camera does 2.5K uncompressed RAW.

The Blackmagic Production camera will do 4K lossy compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera will do lossless compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

2K, 2,5K raw uncompressed ?

Nope, only the Blackmagic Cinema Camera does 2.5K uncompressed RAW.

The Blackmagic Production camera will do 4K lossy compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera will do lossless compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

But they can if they want.

Pero pueden hacerlo si quieren.

Best lossless compression is probably < 1.3 ratio, from 2.5 to 4K is greater than a factor of 2, so that would require a much faster write speed than the BMCC, which doesn't appear to be feasible.

Best lossless compression is probably < 1.3 ratio, from 2.5 to 4K is greater than a factor of 2, so that would require a much faster write speed than the BMCC, which doesn't appear to be feasible.

If the lossy raw compression on the BMPC4K is about a factor of 2.5, I believe it will have the same bitrate as the uncompressed raw on the BMCC.

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

From what we're hearing, the 4K camera will not ship with RAW initially. It's still not definite, but it looks like ProRes will be what it ships with, and raw will be added later. That's the last I heard.

I may be living under a rock, but I haven't seen anything regarding delayed RAW on the 4K camera when it ships. If it's not too much trouble, can you point me in the direction where you heard this? All I've seen are people saying that RAW will not be available initially, but not citing any source.

2K, 2,5K raw uncompressed ?

Nope, only the Blackmagic Cinema Camera does 2.5K uncompressed RAW.

The Blackmagic Production camera will do 4K lossy compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera will do lossless compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

Christian has it right.

People, please pay attention to what you write, as it's confusing other people.

It doesn't help that BM is calling the compression on the 4K production camera "visually lossless"....that's just marketing speak so people don't freak out that it's using lossy compression...but it is LOSSY compression. It's just so low you will not really be able to notice it with your eyes, but you are losing data.

sean

Here is an article which includes "visually lossless" compression of bayer data:
http://hal-unilim.archives-ouvertes.fr/ ... rticle.pdf

Basically each channel is JPEG compressed individually. Hope it works and that they can provide 12-bit

Here is an article which includes "visually lossless" compression of bayer data:
http://hal-unilim.archives-ouvertes.fr/ ... rticle.pdf

Basically each channel is JPEG compressed individually. Hope it works and that they can provide 12-bit

Certainly I don't know how BMD will proceed but it may or may not follow this proposal for the in-camera ProRes output.

I assume they are following the CinemaDNG specifications from Adobe that include lossless (BMPCC) and visually lossless compression (BMPC4K). Both compressions are achieved using JPEG compression as in the article you referenced.

Looking at the results, the colour does look superior if the compression is done before the debayer. I don't know the details of Adobe's specifications to know if doing compression first would be permitted. If it is, then that may be approach. for raw output, I assume the camera does the compression of the raw data from the sensor first of course to get the bitrate low enough to write 4K to an SSD and then the decompression and debayer steps could occur within Resolve. Is this how it works?

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

2K, 2,5K raw uncompressed ?

Nope, only the Blackmagic Cinema Camera does 2.5K uncompressed RAW.

The Blackmagic Production camera will do 4K lossy compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

The Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera will do lossless compressed RAW (at least once the firmware has been updated).

Christian has it right.

People, please pay attention to what you write, as it's confusing other people.

It doesn't help that BM is calling the compression on the 4K production camera "visually lossless"....that's just marketing speak so people don't freak out that it's using lossy compression...but it is LOSSY compression. It's just so low you will not really be able to notice it with your eyes, but you are losing data.

sean

Hello Sean. I want uncompressed raw production camera. I do not care if it's less than 4k. My English is not very good, sorry if I did not communicate well.
Hola Sean. quiero raw sin comprimir en la camara de produccion. me es indiferente si es a menos de 4k. Mi ingles no es muy bueno, perdona si no me comunico bien.