Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount?

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DorisLondon

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Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount?

PostWed Apr 11, 2018 8:09 pm

Hello to all

First off I am not a experienced technical person in terms of this topic, which is actually one good reason why I have posted this topic.
I do have a good all-round grasp of photography and photographic related equipment.

I have resently purchased a Ursa Mini 4.6k PL mount camera and I am starting out on my film making journey.
I chose the PL mount version due to cinema grade lenses I eventually hope to use in the making of my first indie film.

Now I have heard about a cheaper option for PL mount lenses that is currently out there, the so called " Rehoused" EF - PL lenses.
E.g. this Cinematics lens.

http://www.pchood.com/PL%20CINE%20LENS?product_id=321

My question to you all, finally.lol.
what are the pros & cons of such products, in terms of image quality? use? Etc etc.

Any insight, opinions or experience of these alternatives to owning and using " The real thing" which lets face it is well beyond most of us here, even renting them is a fair cost.
Once again thank you for any info.

D.
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Xtreemtec

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostThu Apr 12, 2018 11:29 am

Well they say it themselfs..
Attentions:
1.the lens is modified from DSLR lens, the optics is still DSLR not cine

So this equals like Could have bought a EF version and strap this lens to it.. Would have been the same.. And saved you a lot of "PL" money..

So it stays a DSLR type glass object.. What they do is pull a original DSLR lens apart and rehouse it so it can be used with Follow focus hardware or motors.. And offcoarse fit PL style mounts instead of EF..
No Full Frame.. Only APS-C.. So not sure if it would be worth the 2K pricetag..
Or buy a used set PL lenses.. There are plenty of them out there..
Daniel Wittenaar .:: Xtreemtec Media Productions ::. -= www.xtreemtec.nl =-
4K OBV, ATEM TVS HD, 1M/E 4K, 2M/E Broadcast Studio 4K, Hyperdeck Studio Mini, SONY FS7 4K, Ursa Broadcast 4K
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Thomas Koveleskie

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostThu Apr 12, 2018 1:00 pm

Another very inexpensive but very effective alternative is to buy vintage lenses. See the thread below. It is mainly about Russian vintage lenses, but other lenses are available such as Japan and German manufacturers.

In the thread I posted a photo of the kit I'm putting together for a couple of period piece features we're developing. Being a history buff, the research process was fun for me and I have lenses that have some mystery surrounding them as well. What stories could a 20 to 50 year old lens tell? Needless to say my creative choice has turned into a bit of a side hobby.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70922
Computer: AMD FX-8370 4.2 GHZ 8 core, 16GB RAM, GTX 780 TI, Win 10 X64, system drive OCZ 240GB SSD, storage HD's: 5 TB, 2 TB, 1 TB.
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostThu Apr 12, 2018 1:01 pm

Personally I'm very wary of the Cinematics "rehouse" as it's more a sleeve job than rehouse.

If you're going for that lens, it would be worth considering GL Optics.
http://www.glcinemod.com/english.html

I have one of their Tokina 11-16 T3 and very happy. I bought the lens new and sent it to Nan in China, and he did a great job. He's now selling them for nearly US$2000 less than when I had mine done nearly three years ago. At US$1585 it's a bargain.

I most recently had a Nikon DX 17-55 F/2.8 and Angenieux 28-70 f/2.6 rehoused by Kim Camera in Korea.
https://www.facebook.com/kimca1977/

Kim did a great job - and each lens was US$2000 to rehouse. It's a true rehousing where he even reversed the direction of the Nikon lens!

My latest investment is a set of Mamiya Sekor-C 645 lenses (35/3.5, 45/2.8, 55/2.8, 70/2.8, 80.2.8, 80/1.9, 110.2.8, 150/2.8). I had a local lens tech de-click them for AU$40 each and because they have a longer focal flange than PL can be adapted to easily.

I ended up getting Krzysztof from c7adaptors (https://c7adapters.com/en) in Poland to make a screw on PL mount (in the same way leitax mounts work) for each lens at US$200 each. He's done a beautiful job and now I have a set of medium format lenses I use with my UM4.6PL, or waiting for the day I may need to shoot on a huge sensor camera.
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Australia
www.flywirefilms.com
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Thomas Hennessy

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostThu Apr 12, 2018 5:07 pm

Tristan Pemberton wrote:Personally I'm very wary of the Cinematics "rehouse" as it's more a sleeve job than rehouse.

If you're going for that lens, it would be worth considering GL Optics.
http://www.glcinemod.com/english.html



I worked a feature last December and January where we had a rehoused GL Optics 18-35 PL Mount lens (I think it was originally a Sigma), and I will say that the overall build quality of the rehouse was great, super solid, however, I did find the witness marks to be pretty inaccurate, though that also could have been an issue with the lens mount on the RED.

Overall though, I'd consider buying a GL Optics rehoused zoom for my personal kit. I would not consider anything my Cinematics.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostThu Apr 12, 2018 5:27 pm

On the 11-16 Tokina, the king of rehoused, more like a rebuild is the Duclos conversion, used ones to for less than $2K. Matt Duclos selects the optics very carefully for his rebuild, and you end up with a much better lens than the still photo version, which can have various optical issues. That said, all the rebuilds use the original focus marks, so, no reliable witness marks. But the Duclos mod is easy to pull focus with, after his realignment of the lens elements. You end up with a very nice, actual new aluminum housing with 80mm front, so nice a compact, and optically very sharp lens with very well controlled CA, which the original photo version lacks.

Now, Tokina also sells a Cine version of their zooms directly, and they are also built from the ground up as a Cine lens, parfocal, using the same lensmootics frommthrmstill photo version, but a new a Cine case.
For me, I trust Matt’s craftsmanship more, so I got one of his 11-16 Zooms, and I get his excellent service support as part of the deal.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostFri Apr 13, 2018 6:25 am

Tristan Pemberton wrote:most recently had a Nikon DX 17-55 F/2.8 and Angenieux 28-70 f/2.6 rehoused by Kim Camera in Korea.
https://www.facebook.com/kimca1977/

Nikon lens rehouse sounds like an interesting solution. Do you have any other contact for Kim Camera besides the Facebook page? Like an email address? I couldn't find one on the website. Thanks!
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
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DorisLondon

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostFri Apr 13, 2018 8:04 am

Excellent info and advice guys, very interesting points here. Due to my creative needs & budget I'm leaning towards a Russian vintage PL set .
But concerned about softness , contrast and the speed of those lenses.?

D .
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostFri Apr 13, 2018 10:56 am

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
Tristan Pemberton wrote:most recently had a Nikon DX 17-55 F/2.8 and Angenieux 28-70 f/2.6 rehoused by Kim Camera in Korea.
https://www.facebook.com/kimca1977/

Nikon lens rehouse sounds like an interesting solution. Do you have any other contact for Kim Camera besides the Facebook page? Like an email address? I couldn't find one on the website. Thanks!

Yeah, that Nikon DX lens is stellar for rehousing.

Great focal range, internally focussing (very little breathing for a photo lens), zoom doesn't change length significantly (good for gimbals and mattebox), very close to parfocal, and not to mention sharp with great character. It basically lives on my camera now.

Kim only has Facebook, but he's very good at communicating through FB messenger. I asked why he preferred that over email or phone, and he replied his english is not great. He's very trustworthy and I have no hesitation recommending him. Just be prepared for it to take some time to turn around as he's in high demand. It took about 5 months for me to get both my lenses - but it was worth the wait, and price.
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Jamie LeJeune

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostSat Apr 14, 2018 2:52 am

Tristan Pemberton wrote:Kim only has Facebook, but he's very good at communicating through FB messenger. I asked why he preferred that over email or phone, and he replied his english is not great. He's very trustworthy and I have no hesitation recommending him. Just be prepared for it to take some time to turn around as he's in high demand. It took about 5 months for me to get both my lenses - but it was worth the wait, and price.

Dang. I've managed to completely avoid using Facebook all this time. This lens may be that reason I have to bite the bullet on that one.

Thank you for the info Tristan! Got images to share of what the resulting rehouse ended up looking like?
www.cinedocs.com
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4601572/
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Tristan Pemberton

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostSat Apr 14, 2018 12:51 pm

Jamie LeJeune wrote:
Tristan Pemberton wrote:Kim only has Facebook, but he's very good at communicating through FB messenger. I asked why he preferred that over email or phone, and he replied his english is not great. He's very trustworthy and I have no hesitation recommending him. Just be prepared for it to take some time to turn around as he's in high demand. It took about 5 months for me to get both my lenses - but it was worth the wait, and price.

Dang. I've managed to completely avoid using Facebook all this time. This lens may be that reason I have to bite the bullet on that one.

Thank you for the info Tristan! Got images to share of what the resulting rehouse ended up looking like?

Haha, yes I do.... on Facebook :)

There's a post on Kim's FB page (https://www.facebook.com/kimca1977/) from 27th Nov. Those are my lenses.

Here's a clip I shot in January with the most remote rock band in Australia, The Desert Stars. I mostly used the Nikon 17-55 f/2.8. There's also a couple of shots using the Tokina 11-16 T3 and one shot with Mamiya 80mm f/1.9.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostSat Apr 14, 2018 4:55 pm

My Duclos Tokina 11-16 T2.8 (yes it is a true T2.8) lens arrived yesterday, looks great, very nice build.
The only down side to this and most rebuilds is yiu are stuck with the original focus throw, but a good FF can help with this. Being a UWA, a good Focus point is not too hard to hit with a good monitor.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Patrick Acum

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 3:03 pm

I bought the angenieux 28-70 from kimcamera too.
After a few weeks the back focus drifted out so I sent it back and he repaired it. A few weeks later, same problem so I took it to my local lens manufacturer VanDiemen Broadcast, they're pretty specialized and do some amazing Cooke and leica conversions. They immediately contacted me to discover what they'd found. They said it was the worst piece of optical engineering they'd ever seen and that they could never guarantee to fix the problem. The hard lens stops were made from hammered out recycled bits of random metal, Kim had used mismatched and recycled self tapping screws to hold the lens stops in place. I emailed the photos to Kim and said I wanted my money back but he never replied.
The lens cost £1200 to repair, in addition to the initial costs. Optically, its a beautiful lens but the rehousing is very shoddy. I can post photos the repairer took as they dismantled the lens to show the bodged together components.
I also have a GL Optics 11-16, and my version of that isn't great. Tokina sell their own version for about £1500 so I'd avoid third party rehousing in future.
As for cinematics, its the same story, I had a nikon 15-55 done many years ago. The lens is sleeved not rehoused and the stills mechanics just aren't built to take that kind of abuse. The zoom was very stiff and adding all that bulk just adds to the strain on the mechanics, which eventually broke after about 6 months.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 3:55 pm

Yep, this is why I would not consider a rehouse by anyone less than a Cine lens specialist like Mat Duclos.
You get what you pay for. That said, even Mat says the Tokina Cine versions are very nice, especially the 11-16 PL. What I like about Mat’s version, is it has a machined aluminum housing and he completely rebuilds the lens, do get everything right.

The Duclos 11-16 started out at $3500, but is now $2500 to bring it in line with Tokina’s own version. The big difference, is Mat hand selects the Tokina lenses to convert, rejecting any optically bad copies, so you get a great lens, that has not been made oversize. Tokina’s PL version somes closest to the Duclos version in size and weight, 2lbs with a 77/80mm front.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
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Patrick Acum

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Re: Pros & Cons of "Rehoused" EF etc type lenses to PL Mount

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 5:31 pm

Yes, Im sure Matt's version is awesome. He's the official lens police after all! His facebook group is worth a look too.

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