Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

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Savannah Miller

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Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 6:34 am

So right now the only ones I'm finding on B&H seem to be the Hoya Solas IRND. They look good but seeing as this is a pocket I assume screw on is a better choice than a mattebox? What other filters are available?

Secondly, if you theoretically use Speedbooster Ultra, 18-35mm 1.8 EF mount, and a 72-77 mm step up ring stacking a diffusion and IRND filter, will you see any vignetting other than the slight amount caused by the adapter and lens?
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Denny Smith

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 3:02 pm

I have the Firecrest UV/IR cut filters, and they are screw in (I have 77mm) I used them on my Veydra 12mm and a SLR Magic 10mm on a AF100, which has a 17.8mm sensor, no vignetting with
Network filters stacked. :? With the Ultra SB, you should be fine, with 77mm filters and no vignetting from this or the stepup ring. Just get a good ring, like the Calivison, or something similar, so you can add a clamp on shade box if needed. The Ultra SB will give you a 11.5-22mm Zoom, a nice WA Zoom range, from a UWA at 11.5mm to slightly wide at 22mm. Just remember to stop it down a couple of stops for best results, shooting the 18-35 wide open with a SB can sometimes get undesirable artifacts in the image.
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Last edited by Denny Smith on Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 4:10 pm

Savannah, I have the SLR Magic ND screw-on 82mm filters. I posted a review here quite awhile ago. Their advantages include 1 through 10 stops filtration, appears to be consistent performance, the larger size helps avoid vignetting, and they’re relatively economical.

They attenuate IR wavelengths to the same degree as visible light but are not IR Cut. Attenuation of IR may be sufficient or you can add a separate IR Cut or SLR Magic Image Enhancer Pro. The video I posted shows results of each option.

Can’t believe the Vimeo iOS app won’t let me see the URL or their internal name for videos!

You could search Vimeo for my name and this title:
SLR Magic ND and IEND filters 2017-09-16


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Jim Simon

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 10:26 pm

Savannah Miller wrote:the only ones I'm finding on B&H seem to be the Hoya Solas IRND.


I use those myself. They work great!
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rick.lang

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostSun Apr 15, 2018 10:56 pm

Jim, what ND strengths does Solas offer now? When they were first announced, if memory serves, they didn’t have a complete set in one-stop increments.


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Savannah Miller

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostMon Apr 16, 2018 1:04 am

I don't think they quite have 1 stop increments yet but they have a large selection of options and filter sizes too. I was going to get a few and 1 stop increments are not necessary yet for me they're not exactly cheap.

Edit:

They have 1,2,3,4,5,6,9,10

And 46mm to 82mm thread sizes which is a little unfortunate because a few full frame lenses are now 86mm
Last edited by Savannah Miller on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Savannah Miller

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostMon Apr 16, 2018 1:07 am

From my research though, the DCI 4K on the pocket will have a larger image circle and produce more vignetting with the sigma 18-35 then when shooting in 4K UHD. At least that's how it is on the GH5s so not sure if it's the same. The reason I'm wondering, is I want to start investing in glass for the Pocket 4K and not sure if I want to go the speedbooster ultra/xl route or stick to micro4/3 glass. I feel like lenses with a larger image circle will be more useful for other cameras too like Ursa Mini Pro if I upgrade in the future.

But if there's significant vignetting of the Sigma 18-35 at DCI 4K or even 4K uhd then maybe it's not even worth considering that lens at all. I saw a GH5s test with that combination and even the Ursa Mini Pro stuff and it doesn't really look like a problem, but I just want to make sure.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostMon Apr 16, 2018 1:46 am

The vignetting on the GH5S with the Sigma 18-35 was with a Speed Booster, it should cover the full sensor without a SB just fine. The new PC4K has a diagonal of 21.4mm compared to 21.6mm for normal M43, the GH5S has full sensor at 18.96x13, so its open gate diagonal is 22.9, the Sigma Zoom is more likely to vignette with a SB at the wide end.

That said, the Veydra Mini Primes would be great on thr new Pocket 4K. I have a 12-35mm set for sale, see Off Topic.
Cheers
Denny Smith
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Savannah Miller

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostMon Apr 16, 2018 4:11 am

I see the Veydras and your set is a great deal but I find maybe it's too expensive for me at this time as video is more of a hobby on the side as I do VFX mostly full time. I guess you could also use 18-35 with a speedbooster and with a dumb mount and get double the focal ranges too. The sigma is pretty sharp in the center so that's not a bad idea either.

I just figure lenses with larger image circles (ef, PL, etc.) will be more useful with other cameras too.
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Savannah Miller

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostMon Apr 16, 2018 6:12 am

On the Ursa Mini/Pro the 18-35 vignettes only a slight bit at 18mm and it's just a smooth light falloff, not a hard vignette. If you use a stepup ring does that help if you use larger screw on filters or will you still see harder vignetting with filters?
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Jim Simon

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostTue Apr 17, 2018 1:19 am

Savannah Miller wrote:I want to start investing in glass for the Pocket 4K and not sure if I want to go the speedbooster ultra/xl route or stick to micro4/3 glass.


Given the dual-ISO of the 4K, the likelyhood of it being the same sensor as the GH5s, and the likelyhood of being usable at 3200 ISO (at least for my meager projects), I've decided to go with a second 12-35 2.8 and 35-100 2.8. They're good lenses whose largest drawback is the 2.8 limit (if these were 1.8 lenses, they'd be damn near perfect), which is made less of an issue with the new sensor.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostTue Apr 17, 2018 2:27 am

Jim, a f/1.4 12-35 Zoom would be huge and heavy! I the original Oly 14-35 f/2.0 zoom and it is 2+lbs and has a 77mm front, actual diameter is 84-86mm for its entire length, with a 77/80mm front. A f/1.4 would be even larger, like the Sigma 18-35, but the wider you go, the larger the diameter of the front element is.
So a f/1.4 MFT 12-35mm lens could be 82-90mm on the front.

I find the f/2.0 Pky 14-35 to be pleanty fast even for the Micro Cinema Camera at ISO 800. Is worked sell with the AF100 at ISO 400 in low light stage shooting situations.
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rick.lang

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Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostTue Apr 17, 2018 6:14 pm

Denny, I though when I looked at the Sony sensor last week (used on the GH5S), it was 18.86x10mm, but you mentioned it was 18.86x13mm.


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Last edited by rick.lang on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostTue Apr 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Savanah, if you want to use that Sigma 18-35 zoom with a Speed Booster on the Pocket4K, you may be fine but I would go beyond the 0.71x focal reducer. The image circle of the zoom is 28.4mm which is a bit short of ideal. The vignette in the Pocket4K may be harder than on a normal MFT sensor because the horizontal dimension at 18.86mm is wider than the standard 17.3mm. Not an issue for UHD but could be an issue for DCI 4K.


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Last edited by rick.lang on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostTue Apr 17, 2018 6:34 pm

Savannah, I understand you may not want to buy 10 ND filters at once. I just find it strange that Solas omits the 7 and 8 stops. I wish SLR Magic offered more flexibility on ordering ND filters to let people select individual filters like 1, 2, 4, 8. Alas they’re thinking the costs are low enough that it justifies having all stops without stacking. For the cost of a few of the higher end Lee filters, you can buy 10 of theirs. And their performance is quite good!


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Jim Simon

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostTue Apr 17, 2018 10:18 pm

Denny Smith wrote:A f/1.4 would be even larger, like the Sigma 18-35


The Sigma has never been manufactured for a 4/3 image circle. A 1.8 12-35 wouldn't need to be as large as the current Sigma, which is designed for Full Frame sensors.
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Denny Smith

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostWed Apr 18, 2018 2:55 am

Jim, the Sigma 18-35 is not a MFT lens, nor it is a FF lens, it is a APS-C format lens, between the two. I just used it as an example of,how large a 18mm f/1.4woudl be, and while a MFT version would be slightly smaller, a 12mm f1.4 MFT version would be even larger than the Sigma 18-35, as the Panny Leica 12mm f/1.4 has a 62mm front ring and weighs 11.5 Oz.

A zoom with the wide end at 12mm f/1.4 would be larger yet. My Panny Leica 12-50f/2.8 Zoom also has a 62mm front filter ring size, so a f/1.4woudl need to be half again as large, or around 77mm, getting us back to a zoom lens the size of the older Oly 14-35mm Zoom. Every time to add to a zoom range and increase the primary f/stop, yiu hadd size and mass to the lens elements.

Rick, the GH5S has a multi aspect sensor, so it uses the 18.96 width by 13mm depth to get it various aspect ratios. For example 4:3 uses the 13mm depth, while cropping the sides to keep a 8MP file without reducing the resolution. 18.xx by 10mm is used for 16:9, while 18.9x x 9.x (full sensor width) is used for 17:9 4K DCI, all the while keeping the sensor at the same 8.x MP resolution, with out sensor crop as the GH4/5 have when changing resolutions, different sensor crops are used, with different resolutions.
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rick.lang

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:18 am

Thanks, Denny. I think I didn’t do enough homework on the Sony sensor!


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Ryan Earl

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:22 pm

I own the Veydra lenses instead of using a speed booster with the Micro. I think it's a better investment to start with a single Veydra and add on later.

I also get very nice color with the Firecrest NDs and own the 2,4,6 stop in 4.5 x 5.65. They are green, the NISI IRND are warmer. I haven't read through some of the other posts on the Pocket 4K yet but it would be interesting to see if it has an IR cut filter built in?

I have a few of the Hoya 77mm ProND and they control IR well for $100. The 77mm Hoya IR Cut is $100 and takes the little bit of IR pollution out of the ProND 4 stop that shows up on the pocket or micro camera.

Arri makes a nice 77mm threaded adapter for their 114mm matte box, MMB-2. When using a matte box and follow focus the MFT lenses can be locked in place with a metal ring inside matte box, instead of a rubber donut. I noticed the lenses wiggling without something to hold the lens on the rods.
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rick.lang

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 8:02 pm

I have the complete set of the rectangular NiSi ND filters as well as the SLR Magic screw-ons. Both can have a slight warmth which I much prefer to green as I’m usually shooting people, not summer scenery.


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Denny Smith

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Re: Screw on IRND options for Pocket 4K.

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 2:31 am

I agree Rick, I really like my NiSi filters, now I need some more!

Ryan, the screw in Matt box ring is a great reminder, nicer solution than Matt box clamp donuts. Duclos also makes an excellent 77mm screw in ring to 114mm matte box ring, just got one for my Duclos 11-16 Zoom to attach it to the Mistfit Atom matte box.
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Denny Smith
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