B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

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Craig Seeman

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B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 2:25 am

Possible Autofocus in the future.
Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.18.03 PM.png
Possible Autofocus in the future
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Last edited by Craig Seeman on Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 2:26 am

Still images are cDNG Raw
Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.20.11 PM.png
Still images are cDNG Raw
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 2:27 am

Audio mix similar to Ursa Broadcast
Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.19.24 PM.png
Audio mix similar to Ursa Broadcast
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 2:28 am

Won't have anamorphic mode
Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.19.16 PM.png
Won't have anamorphic mode
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 2:29 am

Will include one battery
Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.20.42 PM.png
Will include one battery
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Wayne Steven

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 9:43 am

Amazing. B&H gets a BM expert to answer questions, but the BMD forum doesn't.

Notice the anamorphic answer. I wonder how all those old squeeze lenses got it on their 4:3 sensors if this is how it works?
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Kingsley Paul

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 10:18 am

Thanks Craig for posting some additional insights into the bmpcc 4K, I am sure a lot of folks are eagerly awaiting more information about this camera, so far the information has reached a level of saturation, so BMD should come out with some test footage and address some of the issues directly.
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Yue Shi Lai

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 12:20 pm

In addition to the ones posted above: Scattered further down in the Q&A, there are two answers that together, are rather enlightening:
Will there be a crop function in 4K/UHD to Super 16 size so we can use our C-Mount lenses??
You will see vignetting when recording larger than HD but in HD recording, the zoomed HD crop will cover for all standard frame rates 23.98-60fps and 120fps

When shooting in slower 1080p rates, can the camera downsample from 4k internally and without line skipping?
Yes. In HD, you can downsample from 4K internally without line skipping. This is similar to the URSA Mini Pros.

So there is a separate, internally scaled = around 4/3" image area 1920x1080 mode (23.98-60 fps), and then a zoomed, around 1/1.5" 1920x1080 mode (with 120 fps additionally). So unlike the fear being voiced on several web sites, you are not being forced into the 1/1.5" image area with 1920x1080 at lower or equal 60 fps.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 12:45 pm

Yes thanks Craig.

Yes Yue. It's amazing how people will jump into fears like this. This proliferation of this heat issue misinformation in the past has confused people. It is not all sensors or all processing solutions, and the ones without the issues are widely used now in significant video cameras. But I notice that 4K is normally topped out at 30 fps (though the older initial JVC 4k camcorder based on an earlier version of the micro studio technology did have uhdp60 from memory), and the 4K pocket has cooling vents by the look of it. So, maybe full frame 120fps is too much, maybe the processing (though 120fps fullhd windowed is virtually 4kp30).
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:29 pm

Seems that B&H site is the best place to get questions answered about the camera.
Some more obvious ones but people do keep asking them so I'll post.
4K out through USB-C only. Of course we'll probably see some interesting mounting options developing in this area as a result.
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 9.25.33 AM.png
4K out through USB-C only
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:30 pm

"Crop" factor we know as it's been said frequently but posting just for "official" sake.
1.9
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 9.25.45 AM.png
Effective Crop 1.9
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:41 pm

Timelapse can be ProRes or cDNG.
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 9.40.18 AM.png
Time Lapse can be ProRes or cDNG
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Last edited by Craig Seeman on Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:45 pm

No External Timecode in just in case some were wondering (or wishing) about this.

Addendum this information corrected further down the thread. LTC Timecode in on 3.5mm audio jack

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 9.44.07 AM.png
No External Timecode In
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Last edited by Craig Seeman on Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:48 pm

Compatible card list coming later. Perhaps this is still being tested.

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 9.47.02 AM.png
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 1:52 pm

Comment on rolling shutter.
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 9.50.47 AM.png
"Minimal" rolling shutter "effect"
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Wayne Steven

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 4:16 pm

60th a second readout reduces rolling shutter, but Sony used 120-240th a second. This indicates to me it might indeed have a readout ability faster than 60th of a second. Maybe it is not 120fps sensor people are hoping for either.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:14 pm

Shutter can be speed or angle but no slow shutter for stills or timelapse :-(
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.13.03 PM.png
Shutter can be speed or angle but no slow shutter
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:19 pm

On SpeedBooster and Metabones XL vs Ultra

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.17.46 PM.png
On SpeedBooster and Metabones XL vs Ultra
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:22 pm

Cables only Power Cable and International Adaptors

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.20.40 PM.png
Cables only Power Cable and International Adaptors
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:40 pm

Craig Seeman wrote:Possible Autofocus in the future.
The attachment Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.18.03 PM.png is no longer available

Another confirmation that they are investigating this. It would be very useful for gimbal work given that distances might vary during tracking (and the odd vlogger that would use this camera).

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.38.14 PM.png
Possibility of continuous autofocus
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:45 pm

No Dual Slot Recording. SD won't record 4K RAW. Otherwise supports "relay" recording.

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.43.04 PM.png
No Dual Slot, SD No 4K RAW, Relay recording
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:54 pm

No upgrade price. I'd think this would be self evident but I guess some are wishful.
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.51.33 PM.png
No Upgrade Price
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:55 pm

Downsample, no line skipping
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.52.03 PM.png
Downsample, no line skipping
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 6:56 pm

Weight 750 grams / 1.9 lbs
Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 2.51.44 PM.png
Weight 750 grams / 1.9 lbs
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 7:36 pm

Dual Native ISO 400 and 3200
Some wanted confirmation on the numbers.

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 3.34.35 PM.png
Dual Native ISO 400 and 3200
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 7:42 pm

No Activation Key for Resolve Studio until you get the camera.
I guess this presents a dilemma for some who were going to get Resolve Studio now but found out they could get it free with the Camera.

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 3.38.51 PM.png
No Activation Key for Resolve Studio until you get the camera.
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rick.lang

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 7:47 pm

Much appreciate all this effort, Craig.

I’m not understanding the comment about no Timecode In. I thought the webpages said the 3.5mm audio can be used to accept Timecode from an external source. Is that what he means by ‘set’ only, i.e. it will take a Timecode to Sync the internal clock to an external source (like a Tentacle) but once it’s set you just hope it doesn’t drift compared to any other camera?

Not likely to drift within most shoots and nothing to stop one from setting Timecode every hour or two if you wished.


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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 9:04 pm

(Audio) LTC Timecode in. I'd think that would be continuous too rather than just a jam but all speculative without more details.

Screen Shot 2018-04-19 at 5.02.05 PM.png
LTC Timecode in
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Kristian Lam

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 9:15 pm

That bit regarding time code is an error. It will jam to LTC input on the 3.5mm audio connection if valid LTC is present.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 9:46 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:That bit regarding time code is an error. It will jam to LTC input on the 3.5mm audio connection if valid LTC is present.


Thanks for clarifying. Perhaps someone should clarify on B&H's site.
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Denny Smith

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 2:22 am

Thanks Kristian.
Cheers
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Savannah Miller

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 6:01 am

Yue Shi Lai wrote:In addition to the ones posted above: Scattered further down in the Q&A, there are two answers that together, are rather enlightening:
Will there be a crop function in 4K/UHD to Super 16 size so we can use our C-Mount lenses??
You will see vignetting when recording larger than HD but in HD recording, the zoomed HD crop will cover for all standard frame rates 23.98-60fps and 120fps

When shooting in slower 1080p rates, can the camera downsample from 4k internally and without line skipping?
Yes. In HD, you can downsample from 4K internally without line skipping. This is similar to the URSA Mini Pros.

So there is a separate, internally scaled = around 4/3" image area 1920x1080 mode (23.98-60 fps), and then a zoomed, around 1/1.5" 1920x1080 mode (with 120 fps additionally). So unlike the fear being voiced on several web sites, you are not being forced into the 1/1.5" image area with 1920x1080 at lower or equal 60 fps.



According to someone at NAB you can do up to 100fps using the full sensor. So not just 60fps.
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Kristian Lam

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 6:05 am

Savannah Miller wrote:According to someone at NAB you can do up to 100fps using the full sensor. So not just 60fps.


He’s mistaken. 60fps is the limit for full sensor readout.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 10:20 am

So Kristian. Can the sensor readout the 60fps frame faster to substantially reduce rolling shutter, like in 100th a second?
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 5:51 pm

No AE Bracketing but there's plenty of dynamic range for HDR

Screen Shot 2018-04-20 at 1.44.18 PM.png
No AE Bracketing but there's plenty of dynamic range for HDR
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 5:53 pm

Sony E mount to MFT adaptors technically not possible.

Screen Shot 2018-04-20 at 1.46.25 PM.png
Sony E mount adaptors technically not possible.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Purpose of top mounting hole (although I thought this would be self evident)

Screen Shot 2018-04-20 at 1.47.10 PM.png
Purpose of top mounting hole
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 5:56 pm

S16 Crop possible
Screen Shot 2018-04-20 at 1.47.30 PM.png
S16 Crop possible
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Denny Smith

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 6:42 pm

Regarding E Mount to MFT, as BM mentioned this is not possible. Why? Simple, the MFT mount FFD is longer than the E Mount FFD, so if you did adapt a E Mount lens to FFD, you would not get inf. focus.
This is a non starter request, as it is not physically possible. ;)

Looks like we are not going to get a 2.5K/S16 window mode either, any time soon. :(
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Mark Grgurev

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 9:27 pm

Craig Seeman wrote:S16 Crop possible
Screen Shot 2018-04-20 at 1.47.30 PM.png


To be fair, I don't think this person would have the authority to announce that anyway. I should have figured as much before I asked the question.

Still, I'm glad that there's now at least myself and the other person asked so let's hope that employee passes it along to the firmware team.
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Wayne Steven

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 11:25 pm

It would likely require an optical adaptor, to relay the image from outside.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 3:17 am

USB-C recording specs
RAW Uncompressed DCI 30fps
RAW 3:1 Compressed DCI 60fps
Attachments
Screen Shot 2018-04-22 at 11.14.51 PM.png
USB-C recording specs
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Kristian Lam

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 6:54 am

Craig Seeman wrote:USB-C recording specs
RAW Uncompressed DCI 30fps
RAW 3:1 Compressed DCI 60fps


Not so much a hard limit, but something reasonable that the drives will be able to sustain before dropping frames.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 10:01 am

So a Samsung T5 SSD will be slower than a CFast card?! I thought both will do about 500mb /sec of writing.. what would I need for 4K RAW 60p uncompressed then? Or isn't that possible at all?
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Sean van Berlo

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 10:10 am

It's not just about the maximum write speed, it's about a perfectly sustained write speed. Anything else will result in dropped frames. CFast cards are designed to do this, SSDs much less so.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 12:24 pm

Since Blackmagic is actively participating here, dare I ask:

The September time frame—is it hopeful, realistic or conservative? And will BMD be able to deliver in numbers once it starts shipping?

There is a worrying scenario where it DOES ship in September but in such low quantities that the date becomes meaningless for almost everyone. I have an early order in and I guess I'm just hoping for the best...
I use the following (might help me and/or others with trouble shooting)

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Tim Lota

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 7:44 pm

Sean van Berlo wrote:It's not just about the maximum write speed, it's about a perfectly sustained write speed. Anything else will result in dropped frames. CFast cards are designed to do this, SSDs much less so.


Ah, ok, thanks. Is there any SSD option for this at all, or will I definitely have to use CFast2 then?
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Apr 23, 2018 8:26 pm

Tim Lota wrote:
Sean van Berlo wrote:It's not just about the maximum write speed, it's about a perfectly sustained write speed. Anything else will result in dropped frames. CFast cards are designed to do this, SSDs much less so.


Ah, ok, thanks. Is there any SSD option for this at all, or will I definitely have to use CFast2 then?


Please read the thread. BMD Expert responded explaining that you can record RAW to some SSDs. Just as they've done with other media they'll probably have recommendations.
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Jason R. Johnston

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue Apr 24, 2018 1:43 am

Wayne Steven wrote:Amazing. B&H gets a BM expert to answer questions, but the BMD forum doesn't.


They do. It’s called Support. This is a user forum which BMD kindly hosts and absolutely don’t have to.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue Apr 24, 2018 1:51 am

B&H is also perceived as pre sales (potential new customers) whereas those of us in this forum are mostly users of some of their products/cameras already.
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