B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed May 09, 2018 1:37 pm

ProRes RAW Redux

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ProRes RAW Redux
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Wayne Steven

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed May 09, 2018 1:49 pm

Classic. I get this sort of confusion from people a bit too.
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Janis Lionel

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu May 10, 2018 11:04 am

Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu May 10, 2018 3:53 pm

Janis Lionel wrote:Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?


You mean this? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera
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Janis Lionel

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu May 10, 2018 10:34 pm

michaeldhead wrote:
Janis Lionel wrote:Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?


You mean this? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera


of course i visited that page but for instance; it doesn't state the ISO values as the BH tech did...it only says "up to 25'000" iso. Believing the infos of the BH tech; its 400 and 3200 base iso. so why not put the info online? Maybe they're scared because they promised to much before...global shutter ;P
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Keith Babineaux

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostFri May 11, 2018 1:01 am

Janis Lionel wrote:
michaeldhead wrote:
Janis Lionel wrote:Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?


You mean this? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera


of course i visited that page but for instance; it doesn't state the ISO values as the BH tech did...it only says "up to 25'000" iso. Believing the infos of the BH tech; its 400 and 3200 base iso. so why not put the info online? Maybe they're scared because they promised to much before...global shutter ;P



If you look at their other cameras, they never state the native ISO for any of their cameras. Sony doesn't list it on their site either. Grant talked about it at NAB 2018. Check out that video.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon May 14, 2018 5:28 pm

Can't copy from SD or CFast to SSD

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Can't copy from SD or CFast to SSD
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostThu May 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Does not support USB-C to Ethernet

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Does not support USB-C to Ethernet
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Joe Giambrone

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 20, 2018 9:30 pm

Can the new pocket use slower FRAME RATES, 1-24fps?

Has this been answered yet?
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon May 21, 2018 5:45 pm

At this point in time, slower than 24fps is not available on BM cameras, even though it has been requested for some time.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon May 21, 2018 6:22 pm

Joe Giambrone wrote:Can the new pocket use slower FRAME RATES, 1-24fps?

Has this been answered yet?


If you mean something like shooting 16 or 18 frames per second (for example) no but you can sort play with the time lapse interval to shot one frame and at a 2 frame interval (etc) for off speed effect.
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Joe Giambrone

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon May 21, 2018 7:58 pm

According to "Indie Shooter" (URL's not allowed), the Ursa firmware 4.0 can do it.

Where is the documentation on "Off-Speed Frame Rate?"

And more importantly: is the new Pocket 4K going to have it?


" You can toggle “Off Speed Frame Rate” to slide between every single number between 12 and 60 to get the exact frame rate you want. Many will be quick to say this is useless, while many others will recognize the uncapping of creativity this unleashes, especially for those who love to shoot with higher or lower than normal frame rates."
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Kristian Lam

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue May 22, 2018 2:16 am

Joe Giambrone wrote:Where is the documentation on "Off-Speed Frame Rate?"


This is documented in page 66 / 67 of the URSA Mini Manual.

Joe Giambrone wrote:And more importantly: is the new Pocket 4K going to have it?


Yes, this will also be available in the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. As to high low the off speed frame rate can go, this is yet to be confirmed.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue May 22, 2018 3:24 am

Yes, this will also be available in the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. As to high low the off speed frame rate can go, this is yet to be confirmed.



This is very good news (and a sale). We need all the functionality we can get!
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed May 23, 2018 2:04 pm

Suggestion for cDNG in MXF wrapper
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Suggestion for cDNG in MXF wrapper
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Andres Guzman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed May 23, 2018 2:09 pm

Does B&H not queue questions from mobile apps? I asked a couple over the weekend regarding NVMe support over USB-C and wether plugging the BMPCC 4K to a computer would recognize cards as attached drives. Neither has made it to the viewable list.


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Kristian Lam

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed May 23, 2018 2:13 pm

Andres Guzman wrote:Does B&H not queue questions from mobile apps? I asked a couple over the weekend regarding NVMe support over USB-C and wether plugging the BMPCC 4K to a computer would recognize cards as attached drives. Neither has made it to the viewable list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the NVMe memory in a USB-C enclosure, it will get recognised but your bottleneck is still the USB-C interface.

No, plugging in the camera to a computer will not allow the media in the camera to be accessed.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed May 23, 2018 10:32 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:
If the NVMe memory in a USB-C enclosure, it will get recognised but your bottleneck is still the USB-C interface.



Thanks Kristian; however, my assessment is a little different. I see USB-C as the pipe but not what flows through it. Sure, if the BMPCC 4K comes out with USB 3.1 Gen 1 specs (5 Gbps theoretical), I totally see that being a bottleneck. But — if it comes out swinging with 3.1 Gen 2 or later... we are looking at ~10 Gbps speeds. Whereas SATA interface caps out at 6 Gbps, NVMe is based on PCIe protocols (e.g. 18 Gbps write speeds).

My point? I envision an M.2 SSD USB-C enclosure, capable of more than 6 Gbps so... if we want to push 4K60 DCI Uncompressed RAW out of the Pocket to small/inexpensive SSDs (smaller and cheaper than Samsung T5s), then why not? CFast 2 sure can’t hang at those speeds.

I can’t wait for September 3rd!


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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSat May 26, 2018 12:10 am

Info about USB-C port closer to release.

Screen Shot 2018-05-25 at 1.39.18 PM.png
Info about USB-C port closer to release.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSat May 26, 2018 12:13 am

More info about 12V connector coming closer to release

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More info about 12V connector coming closer to release
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Re: B&H

PostSat May 26, 2018 12:22 am

Andres Guzman wrote:Thanks Kristian; however, my assessment is a little different. I see USB-C as the pipe but not what flows through it. Sure, if the BMPCC 4K comes out with USB 3.1 Gen 1 specs (5 Gbps theoretical), I totally see that being a bottleneck.


It will be USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5 Gbps).
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 3:42 am

How come not the still slow 10Gb/s version?

TB just walks it. Why didn't the USB forum just role USB efforts into TB. That standard is still stick with USB compromises.
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rick.lang

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B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 5:44 am

USB 3.1 Gen 1 is certainly a step in the right direction, but I’d expect the company that pioneered 12G SDI to have at least moved to recording 10 Gbps in a DCI 4K camera. Time to sharpen the pencil? Well apparently not as that ship has sailed. Gen 1 will handle raw up to 30 fps which will consume likely about 300 MB/s in real life and possibly more. Gen 1 should handle raw 3:1 at 50/60 fps. Gen 2 would have managed raw up to the camera’s maximum 60 fps for DCI 4K. Perhaps BMD felt so few people are shooting raw (now that raw 3:1 is so good) that it wasn’t so important to offer Gen 2. The recording media continues to achieve new performance highs, but the camera’s USB pipe may be a limiting factor in time.




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Last edited by rick.lang on Sun May 27, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 12:05 pm

Rick.
You articulated it so much better than me! If USB 3.1 Gen 1 ships, external speeds would not be that much different than internal recording. Certainly a missed opportunity.
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Rakesh Malik

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 5:29 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:TB just walks it. Why didn't the USB forum just role USB efforts into TB. That standard is still stick with USB compromises.


USB standards require committee approval, and hence will always be the least common denominator.

Thunderbolt is an Intel technology, so it's limited only by Intel, and probably hobbled by association with Apple, even though all that Apple really contributed is branding... without which it would probably instead have some bizarre numerical name like highly unmemorable IEEE 1394.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 8:37 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:Thunderbolt is an Intel technology, so it's limited only by Intel, and probably hobbled by association with Apple, even though all that Apple really contributed is branding... without which it would probably instead have some bizarre numerical name like highly unmemorable IEEE 1394.


Well, Intel introduced it originally as 'Light Peak' in 2009 at the Intel Developer Forum, because it was conceived as an optically technology. And Apple contributed a bit: "Apple contributed to the development by including the mini DisplayPort standard and an "electrical solution" that changed the original optical cables to copper to provide power."
https://appleinsider.com/articles/11/05 ... e_to_intel
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B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 10:36 pm

IEEE 1394, off the top of my head, FireWire. Another exciting branding, compared to 1394. Same goes for h.265 with its really exciting brand HEVC. Boy that’s so exciting I can hardly contain myself. Names like FireWire, Light Peak, Thunderbolt are kinda silly but they are memorable. Actually very useful when trying to remember Intel’s chip sets and architecture. Sky Lake, Cannon Lake, etc.

Still have FireWire on some external drives, but no functional computer to drive it so those are reduced to backup and special purposes via lowly USB 2.

Oops, gotta make this post relevant to the thread. I guess I’m suggesting kinda silly but memorable names have a place in BMD’s marketing of cameras. Pocket? Hardly inspirational but better than BMPCC.

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 10:39 pm

Rick, you can get a Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter cable, and use them that way.
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B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostSun May 27, 2018 10:53 pm

For those asking BMPCC 4K questions to the BMD Expert: the iOS B&H app does not send in the question. At least for me, only asking via a browser works.


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Re: B&H

PostMon May 28, 2018 1:46 am

rick.lang wrote:Names like FireWire, Light Peak, Thunderbolt are kinda silly but they are memorable. Actually very useful when trying to remember Intel’s chip sets and architecture. Sky Lake, Cannon Lake, etc.


Yep, even Sony is using names like Venice these days instead of PMW-300K1 or the like…
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon May 28, 2018 4:33 am

As Robert said.

The real reason is probably a part/parts only support upto those USB speeds and HDMI spec. It could be the FPGA. They could have instead included a better part. Maybe we will see a revision.

Now, the issue. Is to record and monitor externally. TB or best USB, would be a much better option to do it cheaply.

Second issue. People claim (for whatever reason) this is a certain 4kp100 capable sensor. Recording externally could have helped it reach that wiyhit over taxing the camera era. This is also the same datarate as 8kp25 (or 24+). Useful for 4x slow motion on set.

So, my question for BM is, are you going do these things in the next revion of the camera (next year a pocket 4k(b) or pocket 8k even :) )?
Last edited by Wayne Steven on Mon May 28, 2018 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon May 28, 2018 4:35 am

There is a way to do hundreds of gb/s interface too (pm).
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue May 29, 2018 12:43 pm

Four microphones or two?
Hmm but they keep repeating four elsewhere. Perhaps a more detailed clarification is in order.
Granted two might be noise cancelling but that's speculative.

Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 8.41.14 AM.png
Four microphones or two?
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue May 29, 2018 12:45 pm

No Interlaced.

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No Interlaced
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue May 29, 2018 12:48 pm

Photo functionality not the same as DSLR

Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 8.47.05 AM.png
Photo functionality not the same as DSLR
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Wayne Steven

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed May 30, 2018 12:13 am

Craig Seeman wrote:Four microphones or two?
Hmm but they keep repeating four elsewhere. Perhaps a more detailed clarification is in order.
Granted two might be noise cancelling but that's speculative.

Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 8.41.14 AM.png

No inbuilt surround to hear my fingers running on the case? Seriously, the thought of four was rather good.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Jun 04, 2018 5:17 am

Can the camera do wireless focus pulling through Bluetooth? The Ronin has a thumb wheel focus control, but how and when it will work is unexplained.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Jun 04, 2018 1:13 pm

Joe Giambrone wrote:Can the camera do wireless focus pulling through Bluetooth? The Ronin has a thumb wheel focus control, but how and when it will work is unexplained.
Theoretically you should have that control of the camera over the Bluetooth, practically depends on the lens you use.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Jun 04, 2018 5:58 pm

"Theoretically you should have that control of the camera over the Bluetooth, practically depends on the lens you use."

Yeah, that's what the QUESTION is.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostMon Jun 04, 2018 6:00 pm

I would not count on how any given feature is going to work, until the camera is released in its finished form.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostTue Jun 05, 2018 1:29 am

Has this camera got a SDK? This is the sort of camera that screams out for an SDK. There likely is so much you could tweak, even an 4kp120 codec, if it is that sensor people suggest that has that mode. But programming a heap of Bluetooth features is definite.

So, a limited virtualised (sandboxed) virtual SDK to control external features, even put a wifi adaptor on the USB. JavaScript could be used producing binaries to upload, or web assembly.

Thanks


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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 12:57 pm

IR Filtering

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IR Filtering
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 12:59 pm

How to Balance on Gimbal

Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 8.58.13 AM.png
Balance on Gimbal
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 1:01 pm

No Bluetooth video monitoring

Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 9.00.08 AM.png
No Bluetooth video monitoring
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 1:03 pm

iPad Camera Control App will work
Currently no focus control though.

Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 9.01.59 AM.png
iPad Camera Control App will work
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 1:07 pm

Lens functionality on screen
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Lens functionality on screen
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 1:09 pm

Time Code and Audio

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Time Code and Audio
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Craig Seeman

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 1:10 pm

Image Noise at High ISO

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Image Noise at High ISO
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 3:36 pm

Craig Seeman wrote:How to Balance on Gimbal

Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 8.58.13 AM.png


Yes, but the tripod mounting hole is on the optical center of the camera lens mount, which is more important for tripod work. This might also end up being the weight balance point, side to side, as the handle is the bit off center.
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Valentin Remy

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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostWed Jun 27, 2018 8:12 pm

Craig Seeman wrote:Won't have anamorphic mode
Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.19.16 PM.png


I'm a bit disappointed here, was hoping to have the same desqueeze mode as the ursa mini :/
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