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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:37 pm
by Craig Seeman
ProRes RAW Redux

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ProRes RAW Redux
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:49 pm
by Wayne Steven
Classic. I get this sort of confusion from people a bit too.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:04 am
by Janis Lionel
Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:53 pm
by michaeldhead
Janis Lionel wrote:Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?


You mean this? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:34 pm
by Janis Lionel
michaeldhead wrote:
Janis Lionel wrote:Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?


You mean this? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera


of course i visited that page but for instance; it doesn't state the ISO values as the BH tech did...it only says "up to 25'000" iso. Believing the infos of the BH tech; its 400 and 3200 base iso. so why not put the info online? Maybe they're scared because they promised to much before...global shutter ;P

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:01 am
by Keith Babineaux
Janis Lionel wrote:
michaeldhead wrote:
Janis Lionel wrote:Very good info here! Though, what confuses me - why is B&H answering questions and BMD doesn't simply put infos on ther Specs site like ISO range, weight etc.?


You mean this? https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... nemacamera


of course i visited that page but for instance; it doesn't state the ISO values as the BH tech did...it only says "up to 25'000" iso. Believing the infos of the BH tech; its 400 and 3200 base iso. so why not put the info online? Maybe they're scared because they promised to much before...global shutter ;P



If you look at their other cameras, they never state the native ISO for any of their cameras. Sony doesn't list it on their site either. Grant talked about it at NAB 2018. Check out that video.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:28 pm
by Craig Seeman
Can't copy from SD or CFast to SSD

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Can't copy from SD or CFast to SSD
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 3:47 pm
by Craig Seeman
Does not support USB-C to Ethernet

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Does not support USB-C to Ethernet
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:30 pm
by Joe Giambrone
Can the new pocket use slower FRAME RATES, 1-24fps?

Has this been answered yet?

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:45 pm
by Denny Smith
At this point in time, slower than 24fps is not available on BM cameras, even though it has been requested for some time.
Cheers

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:22 pm
by Craig Seeman
Joe Giambrone wrote:Can the new pocket use slower FRAME RATES, 1-24fps?

Has this been answered yet?


If you mean something like shooting 16 or 18 frames per second (for example) no but you can sort play with the time lapse interval to shot one frame and at a 2 frame interval (etc) for off speed effect.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:58 pm
by Joe Giambrone
According to "Indie Shooter" (URL's not allowed), the Ursa firmware 4.0 can do it.

Where is the documentation on "Off-Speed Frame Rate?"

And more importantly: is the new Pocket 4K going to have it?


" You can toggle “Off Speed Frame Rate” to slide between every single number between 12 and 60 to get the exact frame rate you want. Many will be quick to say this is useless, while many others will recognize the uncapping of creativity this unleashes, especially for those who love to shoot with higher or lower than normal frame rates."

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 am
by Kristian Lam
Joe Giambrone wrote:Where is the documentation on "Off-Speed Frame Rate?"


This is documented in page 66 / 67 of the URSA Mini Manual.

Joe Giambrone wrote:And more importantly: is the new Pocket 4K going to have it?


Yes, this will also be available in the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. As to high low the off speed frame rate can go, this is yet to be confirmed.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:24 am
by Joe Giambrone
Yes, this will also be available in the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K. As to high low the off speed frame rate can go, this is yet to be confirmed.



This is very good news (and a sale). We need all the functionality we can get!

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:04 pm
by Craig Seeman
Suggestion for cDNG in MXF wrapper
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Suggestion for cDNG in MXF wrapper
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:09 pm
by Andres Guzman
Does B&H not queue questions from mobile apps? I asked a couple over the weekend regarding NVMe support over USB-C and wether plugging the BMPCC 4K to a computer would recognize cards as attached drives. Neither has made it to the viewable list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:13 pm
by Kristian Lam
Andres Guzman wrote:Does B&H not queue questions from mobile apps? I asked a couple over the weekend regarding NVMe support over USB-C and wether plugging the BMPCC 4K to a computer would recognize cards as attached drives. Neither has made it to the viewable list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the NVMe memory in a USB-C enclosure, it will get recognised but your bottleneck is still the USB-C interface.

No, plugging in the camera to a computer will not allow the media in the camera to be accessed.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:32 pm
by Andres Guzman
Kristian Lam wrote:
If the NVMe memory in a USB-C enclosure, it will get recognised but your bottleneck is still the USB-C interface.



Thanks Kristian; however, my assessment is a little different. I see USB-C as the pipe but not what flows through it. Sure, if the BMPCC 4K comes out with USB 3.1 Gen 1 specs (5 Gbps theoretical), I totally see that being a bottleneck. But — if it comes out swinging with 3.1 Gen 2 or later... we are looking at ~10 Gbps speeds. Whereas SATA interface caps out at 6 Gbps, NVMe is based on PCIe protocols (e.g. 18 Gbps write speeds).

My point? I envision an M.2 SSD USB-C enclosure, capable of more than 6 Gbps so... if we want to push 4K60 DCI Uncompressed RAW out of the Pocket to small/inexpensive SSDs (smaller and cheaper than Samsung T5s), then why not? CFast 2 sure can’t hang at those speeds.

I can’t wait for September 3rd!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:10 am
by Craig Seeman
Info about USB-C port closer to release.

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Info about USB-C port closer to release.
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:13 am
by Craig Seeman
More info about 12V connector coming closer to release

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More info about 12V connector coming closer to release
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Re: B&H

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:22 am
by Kristian Lam
Andres Guzman wrote:Thanks Kristian; however, my assessment is a little different. I see USB-C as the pipe but not what flows through it. Sure, if the BMPCC 4K comes out with USB 3.1 Gen 1 specs (5 Gbps theoretical), I totally see that being a bottleneck.


It will be USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5 Gbps).

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 3:42 am
by Wayne Steven
How come not the still slow 10Gb/s version?

TB just walks it. Why didn't the USB forum just role USB efforts into TB. That standard is still stick with USB compromises.

B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:44 am
by rick.lang
USB 3.1 Gen 1 is certainly a step in the right direction, but I’d expect the company that pioneered 12G SDI to have at least moved to recording 10 Gbps in a DCI 4K camera. Time to sharpen the pencil? Well apparently not as that ship has sailed. Gen 1 will handle raw up to 30 fps which will consume likely about 300 MB/s in real life and possibly more. Gen 1 should handle raw 3:1 at 50/60 fps. Gen 2 would have managed raw up to the camera’s maximum 60 fps for DCI 4K. Perhaps BMD felt so few people are shooting raw (now that raw 3:1 is so good) that it wasn’t so important to offer Gen 2. The recording media continues to achieve new performance highs, but the camera’s USB pipe may be a limiting factor in time.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 12:05 pm
by Andres Guzman
Rick.
You articulated it so much better than me! If USB 3.1 Gen 1 ships, external speeds would not be that much different than internal recording. Certainly a missed opportunity.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:29 pm
by Rakesh Malik
Wayne Steven wrote:TB just walks it. Why didn't the USB forum just role USB efforts into TB. That standard is still stick with USB compromises.


USB standards require committee approval, and hence will always be the least common denominator.

Thunderbolt is an Intel technology, so it's limited only by Intel, and probably hobbled by association with Apple, even though all that Apple really contributed is branding... without which it would probably instead have some bizarre numerical name like highly unmemorable IEEE 1394.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:37 pm
by Robert Niessner
Rakesh Malik wrote:Thunderbolt is an Intel technology, so it's limited only by Intel, and probably hobbled by association with Apple, even though all that Apple really contributed is branding... without which it would probably instead have some bizarre numerical name like highly unmemorable IEEE 1394.


Well, Intel introduced it originally as 'Light Peak' in 2009 at the Intel Developer Forum, because it was conceived as an optically technology. And Apple contributed a bit: "Apple contributed to the development by including the mini DisplayPort standard and an "electrical solution" that changed the original optical cables to copper to provide power."
https://appleinsider.com/articles/11/05 ... e_to_intel

B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:36 pm
by rick.lang
IEEE 1394, off the top of my head, FireWire. Another exciting branding, compared to 1394. Same goes for h.265 with its really exciting brand HEVC. Boy that’s so exciting I can hardly contain myself. Names like FireWire, Light Peak, Thunderbolt are kinda silly but they are memorable. Actually very useful when trying to remember Intel’s chip sets and architecture. Sky Lake, Cannon Lake, etc.

Still have FireWire on some external drives, but no functional computer to drive it so those are reduced to backup and special purposes via lowly USB 2.

Oops, gotta make this post relevant to the thread. I guess I’m suggesting kinda silly but memorable names have a place in BMD’s marketing of cameras. Pocket? Hardly inspirational but better than BMPCC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:39 pm
by Denny Smith
Rick, you can get a Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter cable, and use them that way.
Cheers

B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:53 pm
by Andres Guzman
For those asking BMPCC 4K questions to the BMD Expert: the iOS B&H app does not send in the question. At least for me, only asking via a browser works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: B&H

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:46 am
by Uli Plank
rick.lang wrote:Names like FireWire, Light Peak, Thunderbolt are kinda silly but they are memorable. Actually very useful when trying to remember Intel’s chip sets and architecture. Sky Lake, Cannon Lake, etc.


Yep, even Sony is using names like Venice these days instead of PMW-300K1 or the like…

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:33 am
by Wayne Steven
As Robert said.

The real reason is probably a part/parts only support upto those USB speeds and HDMI spec. It could be the FPGA. They could have instead included a better part. Maybe we will see a revision.

Now, the issue. Is to record and monitor externally. TB or best USB, would be a much better option to do it cheaply.

Second issue. People claim (for whatever reason) this is a certain 4kp100 capable sensor. Recording externally could have helped it reach that wiyhit over taxing the camera era. This is also the same datarate as 8kp25 (or 24+). Useful for 4x slow motion on set.

So, my question for BM is, are you going do these things in the next revion of the camera (next year a pocket 4k(b) or pocket 8k even :) )?

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 4:35 am
by Wayne Steven
There is a way to do hundreds of gb/s interface too (pm).

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:43 pm
by Craig Seeman
Four microphones or two?
Hmm but they keep repeating four elsewhere. Perhaps a more detailed clarification is in order.
Granted two might be noise cancelling but that's speculative.

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Four microphones or two?
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:45 pm
by Craig Seeman
No Interlaced.

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No Interlaced
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:48 pm
by Craig Seeman
Photo functionality not the same as DSLR

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Photo functionality not the same as DSLR
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:13 am
by Wayne Steven
Craig Seeman wrote:Four microphones or two?
Hmm but they keep repeating four elsewhere. Perhaps a more detailed clarification is in order.
Granted two might be noise cancelling but that's speculative.

Screen Shot 2018-05-29 at 8.41.14 AM.png

No inbuilt surround to hear my fingers running on the case? Seriously, the thought of four was rather good.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:17 am
by Joe Giambrone
Can the camera do wireless focus pulling through Bluetooth? The Ronin has a thumb wheel focus control, but how and when it will work is unexplained.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:13 pm
by Daniel Bănică
Joe Giambrone wrote:Can the camera do wireless focus pulling through Bluetooth? The Ronin has a thumb wheel focus control, but how and when it will work is unexplained.
Theoretically you should have that control of the camera over the Bluetooth, practically depends on the lens you use.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:58 pm
by Joe Giambrone
"Theoretically you should have that control of the camera over the Bluetooth, practically depends on the lens you use."

Yeah, that's what the QUESTION is.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:00 pm
by Denny Smith
I would not count on how any given feature is going to work, until the camera is released in its finished form.
Cheers

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:29 am
by Wayne Steven
Has this camera got a SDK? This is the sort of camera that screams out for an SDK. There likely is so much you could tweak, even an 4kp120 codec, if it is that sensor people suggest that has that mode. But programming a heap of Bluetooth features is definite.

So, a limited virtualised (sandboxed) virtual SDK to control external features, even put a wifi adaptor on the USB. JavaScript could be used producing binaries to upload, or web assembly.

Thanks


Wayne.

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:57 pm
by Craig Seeman
IR Filtering

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IR Filtering
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:59 pm
by Craig Seeman
How to Balance on Gimbal

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Balance on Gimbal
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:01 pm
by Craig Seeman
No Bluetooth video monitoring

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No Bluetooth video monitoring
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:03 pm
by Craig Seeman
iPad Camera Control App will work
Currently no focus control though.

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iPad Camera Control App will work
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:07 pm
by Craig Seeman
Lens functionality on screen

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:09 pm
by Craig Seeman
Time Code and Audio

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Time Code and Audio
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:10 pm
by Craig Seeman
Image Noise at High ISO

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Image Noise at High ISO
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Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:36 pm
by Denny Smith
Craig Seeman wrote:How to Balance on Gimbal

Screen Shot 2018-06-27 at 8.58.13 AM.png


Yes, but the tripod mounting hole is on the optical center of the camera lens mount, which is more important for tripod work. This might also end up being the weight balance point, side to side, as the handle is the bit off center.
Cheers

Re: B&H "BMD Expert" answers BMPCC4K questions

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:12 pm
by Valentin Remy
Craig Seeman wrote:Won't have anamorphic mode
Screen Shot 2018-04-18 at 10.19.16 PM.png


I'm a bit disappointed here, was hoping to have the same desqueeze mode as the ursa mini :/