BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

The answer is currently no copy function so it's a feature request.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72674&start=100#p410744

Thank you


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Still something I hope they add. Same with transfer SD/CFAST card to laptop using USB-C port, for those with MacBook Pros, and want less dongles. Both transfer to SSD for backup and Tranfer to PC would be helpful.

But when you’re in a shoot this can be awkward and impractical. You might not have the time. Better to pop it out and put in a fresh card and go.


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But when you’re in a shoot this can be awkward and impractical. You might not have the time. Better to pop it out and put in a fresh card and go.

Unless you are in a remote location and need a backup solution. Having options is a good thing.

there are a lots off netbook solution on market for few buck that allow you to backup with two usb 3.0 slot from xxx to hard disk, better instead to waste you battery of camera, which is more precious than a computer battery if you are in a remote place.
anyway i prefer to use a computer that could copy with parity check control instead to use camera or other tools that not allow me to manage control and more.

But when you’re in a shoot this can be awkward and impractical. You might not have the time. Better to pop it out and put in a fresh card and go.

Unless you are in a remote location and need a backup solution. Having options is a good thing.

That’s what I was thinking. Like when you come back from a shoot, and you’re in your motel room, and you realize you lost the Cfast to USB-C reader, and you’re nowhere near a Bestbuy or camera store. It’s helpful to have. Even if it’s just transferring to a SSD, you can then connect the SSD to your laptop, and start backing up that way, or edit directly off the drive.

there are a lots off netbook solution on market for few buck that allow you to backup with two usb 3.0 slot from xxx to hard disk, better instead to waste you battery of camera, which is more precious than a computer battery if you are in a remote place.
anyway i prefer to use a computer that could copy with parity check control instead to use camera or other tools that not allow me to manage control and more.

USB C wouldn’t waste the battery of the camera. Instead it could charge the camera battery using the Laptop’s power source. Or at least power it, so no battery charge is wasted as it uploads. That’s why it’s useful. With one USB-C cable, you can potentially upload footage AND charge the camera at the same time, with one single cable.

there are a lots off netbook solution on market for few buck that allow you to backup with two usb 3.0 slot from xxx to hard disk, better instead to waste you battery of camera, which is more precious than a computer battery if you are in a remote place.
anyway i prefer to use a computer that could copy with parity check control instead to use camera or other tools that not allow me to manage control and more.

USB C wouldn’t waste the battery of the camera. Instead it could charge the camera battery using the Laptop’s power source. Or at least power it, so not battery charge is wasted as it uploads.

Hi Chris,
i'm not sure about the meaning of your answer (my fault, english is not my main language).
if camera is on to copy from sd/cf to ssd it use battery energy.
If camera can reiceve energy by usb-c to recharge battery from battery pack or similar, i don't read anywhere, there aren't specific at today 1 september about it, but like other bmd cameras could charge battery if you put 12v on power. i had many battery that output this to recharge small battery camera, battery of va4k and more. if can charge also by usb c i'm first to be happy
usb cable is one thing, the ability of circuits to use all functions of cable another thing.

there are a lots off netbook solution on market for few buck that allow you to backup with two usb 3.0 slot from xxx to hard disk, better instead to waste you battery of camera, which is more precious than a computer battery if you are in a remote place.
anyway i prefer to use a computer that could copy with parity check control instead to use camera or other tools that not allow me to manage control and more.

USB C wouldn’t waste the battery of the camera. Instead it could charge the camera battery using the Laptop’s power source. Or at least power it, so not battery charge is wasted as it uploads.

Hi Chris,
i'm not sure about the meaning of your answer (my fault, english is not my main language).
if camera is on to copy from sd/cf to ssd it use battery energy.
If camera can reiceve energy by usb-c to recharge battery from battery pack or similar, i don't read anywhere, there aren't specific at today 1 september about it, but like other bmd cameras could charge battery if you put 12v on power. i had many battery that output this to recharge small battery camera, battery of va4k and more. if can charge also by usb c i'm first to be happy
usb cable is one thing, the ability of circuits to use all functions of cable another thing.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about camera to laptop, and not SSD to camera backup. But even then, I image if your going the backup route, you’re probably connecting your camera to a power source.

Carlo, Grant mentioned in his initial release the new PC4K will charge its battery via the USB-C, but not while recording to a USB-C drive.
Cheers

Carlo, Grant mentioned in his initial release the new PC4K will charge its battery via the USB-C, but not while recording to a USB-C drive.
Cheers

Great news Denny, i not be aware, very happy to know

Just for the record. We know now that B&H have said the Oct 5 date is for new orders...placed now.

We ordered a pair from them a couple of hours after GP's presentation, so I'm expecting to see them early Sept.

I bet I'm right.

Jim, where is this info from? I just spoke to B&H and they contradicted this.

Rick, even without a SB, the wider MFT sensor is very close to open gate 3-perf Cine 35mm open gate, so your field of view is still pretty good, not the big crop of thr. I or and original Pocket camera S16 sensor.

I quit using the original MFT SB with my AF100, after I got some good WA MFT glass. The SB did make my 28mm Zeiss Lens I to a 20mm AOV, bit the 35 became a 25mm and the 50mm a 35mm, so except for the 28mm, it was not worth the hassle, if you already have the 25 and 35mm.

The wider XL Speed Booster changes this however, giving a better expanded AOV, and might be worth the extra expense.
Cheers

Hey Gang,
1) Can you think of *some* benefit to keeping the original Metabones Nikon F to Sony E-Mount Speedbooster in my inventory, alongside my Sony A6000, A6500 collection?

2) Can aforementioned original Speedbooster be adapted for use on Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K, somehow -- if further adapting it to M43 makes any sense at all)?

Also
3) I've no idea what might be some "favorite" huge bang for the buck, versatile, Nikon F-Mount 3rd-party, fixed-aperture tele-zoom to buy for this old SpeedBooster.
Ideas?

ResolveStudio 14.3...014 | MiniMonitor | DTV 10.9.7 | Win8.1 x64 | ROG G751JL, 2.8GHz Intel i7HQ, 24GB DDR4, 1TB HD, 500GB EVO 850, 2GB GTX965M | Mackie MCU Pro | Softube Console 1 Mkii | Shuttle Pro 2 | more...

You can not adapt a Sony E mount to MFT, physically impossible, as there is only 1.25mm of difference in FFD between the two.
Cheers

B&H confirms their first shipment from
BMD will arrive at their warehouse on 4 October 2018. Once received, orders will begin shipping out as they were placed.

As it was mentioned elsewhere, the BMPCC 4K may ship in September but not necessarily make it to our hands in the same month.

True, it has to go through several hoops in the distribution network to get to our retail suppliers and then to us. I do not expect to see the camera before the end of September at the soonest. If BM got them in shipping this week, it would take a week to get them to US distributes if they are sent air, otherwise two or three weeks by ship! Then another week to truck them to retailers. So we are close to B&H’s Oct 5 date.

But the cameras did ship in September.
Cheers

I’m sure they go by air. There’s always the question of volumes. It would appear the confidence BMD had at NAB2018 was justified and let’s hope the first shipments amount to at least ten cameras at a minimum assuming that the vendor has 10 orders.


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Good point, but if North America distribution was to 100 vendors, at 10 cameras each, you are looking at 1000 cameras right there.
Cheers

B&H confirms their first shipment from
BMD will arrive at their warehouse on 4 October 2018. Once received, orders will begin shipping out as they were placed.

I thought BM had said no dates had been given to any retailers?

Is there a source on B&H's quote?

Thanks

B&H confirms their first shipment from
BMD will arrive at their warehouse on 4 October 2018. Once received, orders will begin shipping out as they were placed.

I thought BM had said no dates had been given to any retailers?

Is there a source on B&H's quote?

Thanks

I asked them about my pre-order placed within an hour of the announcement on 9 Apr 18.

My West Coast dealer today said, no shipment ETA information has been sent out by BM or their distributor. They are expecting the cameras in late September.
Cheers

September - October - now November

That may be the date is when they (B&H) expects to have cameras in stock after they fill the preorders. So if you ordered one today from them, you wouldn’t get it until November, but again this is just guess work on my part.
Cheers

Since the the candlelight shots by Stanley Kubrick came up for discussion early in this thread... He used 100 ASA stock pushed to 200 ASA, and used special 3-wick candles to increase the light output from the candles. The lenses were f0,7. At ISO 800 an aperture of 1,4 should give the same exposure, but with longer DOF, obviously. If someone really want to get that look, it should be possible to get very close with the Pocket 4K and the Speedbooster XL as this gets the aperture well below f1 if you use f1,2 or f1,4 full format lenses.

T1.1 with the XL SpeedBooster 0.64x may get you there; the Ultra 0.71x requires a T1 lens and just likely there will be problems. If memory serves me, there are optical issues with the SpeedBooster below a T1.2 taking lens.


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That date is when they (B&H) expects to have cameras in stock after they fill the preorders. So if you ordered one today from them, you wouldn’t get it until Nov.
Cheers

Hey Denny.
Can you source this please? I just got off the phone with B&H to check on the status of my pre-order placed at 1030 EST on 09APR18. This was done pretty much as soon as the announcement happened. The rep is tracking me at the top of their list but confirms BMD shipments to B&H will not be arriving until 01NOV18 at the earliest.

I asked what the estimated ship dates mean on their site: is it when new orders will ship or all orders in general. He checked twice for me (super helpful guy) and the answer was the same: that is the date after B&H expects any shipments from manufacturers (it takes them a day to turn around the stock).

Bottom Line: November at the earliest.

I’m really hoping you have some more insight and perhaps this is just miscommunication. Thank you in advance.

-Andres

PS: Shall we call this Blackmagic Déjà Vu?

User manual posted.

Interesting Andres, I just going by past experience. I do know, B&H always seems to get the new releases of BM cameras after other dealers. For example when the Micro cameras were released, Adorama had them in stock, ready to ship, and B&H was still showing them as not in stock, with a two to three week later expected arrival date. But reports were coming in of some B&H early preorders were being received.

I do not pre order from B&H, always go to a smaller dealer, or Adorama, and get the camera before B&H has stock listed. The phone reps just have what is listed in their system, not always sure how accurate thst is. But the date they gave, is probably the latest date they expect to receive and start shipping the cameras.

Also, note, this time of year, their are a lot of Jewish Holy days that they are closed for, which also adds to their order processing and receipt/shipping delays. For example they are closed Sept 23 - Oct, 1, Oct. 4-11, and Oct 11-13. So if the cameras are shipping late Sept. or early October, B&H could basically closed for receiving and shipping from Sept 29 to Oct. 13, based on the Jewish Holy day calendar, if they at
Re closed for this period, then they would get their backed up shipments in the last part of October, which have to be processed, this includes orders across their entire inventory, not just BM cameras. This is just a guessin my part, I do not have B&Hs actual schedule.

Cheers

You really want to generalize about the distribution chain, and publish it here, based on one experience where you didn't actually place a pre-order and don't know whether the published stock date reflected current or prior orders?

No brief for them here -- there have been reports for years that they're horrible employers, in the warehousing operation -- but if it was your livelihood at stake, would you appreciate this sort of thing?

Finally, your holiday schedule appears to be wrong. According to the B&H website, it's on a normal schedule as of Oct 2, until Thanksgiving.

Thanks, and Yes, I am generalizing, but this was based on my preorder of both the original Pocket Camera, and the Micro Cinema Camera, and a Oly Pen F. I ended up canceling by order with B&H and ordered it from Adorama, who had it in stock, while B&H still was not shipping the pre-orders, per their rep. I was merely trying to explore a possible reason for their delay in getting the new Pocket 4K, not being down on them. I use B&H a lot for items they actually have in stock. I just do not preorder new products from them anymore.

The holidays I listed are from the Jewish Calendar, not sure which of these B&H closed for, except for the Sept dates, which came from B&H. So I could be wrong about the October closure dates, but the fact remains, they seem to get their stock, or at least have it available for order, later than other vendors, based on my last experience.
Cheers

Since we are waiting, time for more idle speculation. The reason B&H Photo May often be later than smaller vendors may be part of their business practice. I’ll make up some numbers just illustrate why.

I assume that a vendor who may sell ten cameras either orders about ten cameras on spec in early April or waits a few weeks until they’ve received ten customers’ preorders. Buying at NAB 2018 can be a big risk for a small vendor. In the first scenarío, that vendor ABC will be one of the first to receive perhaps two to five cameras in the first shipment to their region. In the second scenario that gender isn’t going to get anything until maybe the second mass shipment of maybe five cameras.

Now X$Y is big, maybe the biggest over the life cycle of sales. And big companies pay a lot of attention to risk management and the bottom line. They take care of the bottom line by ensuring they have the greatest spread between wholesale and retail prices as well as operating efficiency and media campaigns. They take care of risk by not rushing to market without seeing confirmation that the product is desired and won’t be a bomb. They project and track sales based on historical sales and current climate. So they don’t order anything until they have fully paid preorders to justify the volumes they need to order to receive the most favorable wholesale and operationally efficient volumes. That may mean they order 500 prepaid cameras but not until the end of May. Ergo company X$Y knows many other companies will receive small shipments ahead of them, and those other companies are their bellwether that dictates whether or not X$Y stays with their order of 500 or increases it or cancels it. So significant deliveries are a month or so later than for company ABC. It’s the way they do business.

X$Y is big remember and manufacturers accept these arrangements because they appreciate being on that big guy’s product list as it really gives legitimacy to the manufacturer and just as many more sales through other vendors that always check to see X$Y has the product so it must be good.


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Also a good scenario Rick.
Cheers

Wow!

I am in awe with this powerful little (relatively) camera. Here's my take.

First off, the camera feels great in your hands. It is hefty yet not heavy. The ergonomics make it comfortable to hold. The body is inconspicuous like a DSLR. The BMPCC 4K does not attract attention. That said, one of the first things you notice is how big the screen is. Focusing is easier and framing is easier. Tapping through the menu options seems intuitive and responsive. I was able to find anything I needed pretty quickly.



My copy was pre-ordered within an hour of it being announced on 9 April 2018. Shipped via FedEx overnight, I received it from B&H on 5 October 2018. I paired it with a Metabones SpeedBooster XL for my Canon glass. When installed, the SpeedBooster has some play but not a whole lot that made me concerned. Using full frame lenses, I went to the wider end of a Canon 16-35 IS f/4L without any visible vignetting. The Arca Swiss foot on the Metabones is about a quarter or maybe a half an inch higher from being flush with the bottom of the camera. When shooting handheld, I found that placing my pinkie finger on the Arca Swiss foot and the rest of my hand holding the lens provided the best grip. Note that you will feel heat being dissipated from the bottom vent. It was warm but my no means hot. As said before and probably elsewhere, this camera is a pleasure to hold.



At the bottom of the camera, there appears to be two guide holes for the proper alignment of accessories. I noticed the battery door does not give you solid feedback or definitive clicking when closing. This was not an issue for me but just something to keep in mind when swapping batteries.

Speaking of batteries, this might be the only con I have. The included Blackmagic Design LP-E6 does not transmit percentage of power remaining. When using this battery, the BMPC 4K screen only shows a little decreasing battery icon. However, Canon and even Watson batteries give you a percentage reading. This did pose an issue for me as one time using the BMD battery, the camera just shut off without warning when the battery was depleted. To boot, Canon battery chargers LC-E6 do not recognize or charge the BMD battery. The only way to charge it is internally in camera. In contrast, when using Canon or Watson, I was able to swap batteries at around 20% life left and charge externally. Not a deal breaker as I have plenty of non-BMD spares.



When booting up the BMPCC 4K, it takes a few seconds to power up. I would say between 3 and 5 seconds or so. Shutting off was snappy. Additionally, the power switch is a welcome change from the original BMPCC.

Something that surprised me was that I was able to record ProRes LT 4K 60p DCI to a SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC V30 (rated for 95 MBps read, 30 MBps write speeds). I need to do more testing but I believe the camera has a buffer good enough for about 19 seconds and 30 frames when shooting with the settings above. If you are just doing quick shots of say family events, set the camera to stop recording when you have dropped frames (as I did). You would have plenty of headroom and save some money by using UHS I cards. However, if you require the speed and reliability of UHS II, go for it. A 19 second buffer is pretty good for most ProRes pick up shots. Other settings may be possible to UHS I cards. Please share what you find.

A note regarding media: macOS (10.14) Mojave does not mount SD or CFAST cards when the camera is plugged in via USB-C. Other OSs may, please share what you find. I believe this is contrary to one of the Q&A questions previously asked on the product page at B&H. It may be possible, but it did not work for me. I am now investing in a SD/CFAST 2.0 combo reader to remediate. Also, speaking of Mac, a MacBook Pro 15” did not charge the BMPCC 4K’s battery via USB-C. However, plugging the Mac USB-C wall charger to the camera did.

My BMPCC 4K is paired my with an ONA Bowery bag. First, I love their bags. They are so awesome if I had to die and come back as a bag, I’d be an ONA bag. Second, the BMPCC 4K fits perfectly in the Bowery along with accessories and a lens.



I am so stoked about this camera that it reminds me of 2008 when the Canon 5D Mark II changed everything. I think the BMPCC 4K will do the same. Can’t wait to get out there and shoot more!

-Andres

Update (SanDisk Extreme Pro): While it kept up with the video at 4K 60p DCI, not so for audio. On second look, 4 out of 11 clips had sync issues.

Update (USB-C): Yes, it can charge the battery but it takes 4 to 5 hours to do so.

Great post Andres. Thanks for sharing your experience. Good to know that the Sandisk SD card can record 60fps Lt so well with the camera. Even though it’s rated v30, I’ve found when benching that card with the aja test that it dips down to no lower than about 45MB/s while mostly doing about 85. I’ve also found that the Samsung Evo Select 256gb micro sd with adapter benches the same if not slightly better and is even cheaper right now than the sandisk. Might be another good option for those looking for cheap media. My camera arrives Tuesday, so I’ll be testing it out then.

Yes, a Great post Andres, thanks very much for sharing your thoughts with us.
Cheers

Very useful information. Especially about the BMD batteries. I’ll buy true Canon or Watson based on your comments. Please update re the cards not being mounted in Mojave since that’s what I’m running.


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Please update re the cards not being mounted in Mojave since that’s what I’m running.

Will do Rick. Mojave does recognize the camera with the firmware update app, just not the cards inside the camera.

Regarding batteries - it's the reason I didn't order BM batteries for extras. It's ridiculous that the battery they sell for the camera doesn't read %. I actually got a number of different brands to test but original Canons may be the smartest way to go.

Regarding SD cards, I've been shooting 24p UHD ProRes HQ continuously with the Sandisk Extremes. They work so well I just ordered several more - 64 GB $28.

It's the most enjoyable camera, pound for pound, that I've ever worked with. Fast, light, great to handle, awesome interface and controls, screen...

Oh, one thing I keep forgetting that is completely liberating on the fly - the ability to control exposure with ISO.
THe ability to go from 100 ISO in small increments and with no noticieable degradation is awesome.

Camera images are very 3D and very clean.

Oh, one thing I keep forgetting that is completely liberating on the fly - the ability to control exposure with ISO.

Jim, what do you think if BMD let the histogram show as you are changing ISO? I for one would like something like this in a future firmware release.

Please update re the cards not being mounted in Mojave since that’s what I’m running.

Will do Rick. Mojave does recognize the camera with the firmware update app, just not the cards inside the camera.

Andres, I think that’s normal.


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Jim, it’s great feedback on using the camera, except for the cheap BMD battery. Usually their accessories are good. I’ll keep their battery only for emergency backup and buy genuine.


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Yes, you can not download the dats or access the card while it is in the camera. USB connection is for updates, and in the case of the new Pocket for recharging the battery or connecting an external EVO type hard drive. You need to use a SD or CF card reader connected to the computer to download your files.
Cheers