BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

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Andres Guzman

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BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostMon May 14, 2018 11:38 am

Hello all. Has anyone come across whether the BMPCC 4K will allow CFast/SD copy to SSD disks? It’s all over the interwebs that it’ll write to SSD, just curious whether it’ll allow ‘copy to SSD.’ Thanks.

-Andy
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Craig Seeman

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostMon May 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Now there's an interesting idea. I'll see what the mysterious BMD Expert at B&H has to say.

Given that one may not want to tether an SSD for recording, using one as in field backup for the cards would most definitely useful and could avoid the need for a laptop on location.
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Craig Seeman

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostMon May 14, 2018 5:30 pm

The answer is currently no copy function so it's a feature request.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72674&start=100#p410744
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Andres Guzman

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostMon May 14, 2018 10:35 pm

Craig Seeman wrote:Now there's an interesting idea. I'll see what the mysterious BMD Expert at B&H has to say.

Given that one may not want to tether an SSD for recording, using one as in field backup for the cards would most definitely useful and could avoid the need for a laptop on location.


Exactly!


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Andres Guzman

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostMon May 14, 2018 10:55 pm

Craig Seeman wrote:The answer is currently no copy function so it's a feature request.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/view ... 00#p410744


Thank you


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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed May 23, 2018 5:16 pm

@BlackMagic_News tweeted about an upcoming Cine Gear event at Paramount next week. Look closely as on their standard promo image they have a MetaBones SpeedBooster on the BMPCC4K. Can’t wait to see (and hear) test footage out of this camera.

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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed May 23, 2018 7:29 pm

The new Metsbones MFT XL and Ultra will work with the new PC4K, depending on the lens you are using.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Thu May 24, 2018 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed May 23, 2018 8:26 pm

If I added the PL-EF adapter to my full frame SLR Magic T2.1 PL APO lenses and mounted that on the Metabones SpeedBooster XL with 0.64x focal reducer on the Pocket 4K, I’d end up with a T1.34 aperture and a fairly wide field of view to boot (significantly wider than the PL lens on the URSA Mini 4.6K camera). The Cine version of the SpeedBooster has a positive locking EF mount.

Coupled with the native 3200 ISO band of the Pocket 4K, this is scary low light.

When Stanley Kubrick was shooting Barry Lyndon with a T0.7 lens under candlelight, what speed of film was he using? ASA 100?

As to the feasibility of doing this, since the SpeedBooster XL is designed for a 4mm sensor glass, focus at the wider apertures may be off. Same concern with the Ultra. Has BMD said that they’re staying with their 2.4mm sensor glass cover? Or will the new sensor be packaged with the ‘standard’ 4mm glass cover?

The SpeedBooster for BMCC is designed for the 2.4mm sensor glass cover, but will it support a large enough image circle to use with full frame lenses on the Pocket 4K sensor, 18.96x10mm?

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Denny Smith

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed May 23, 2018 11:59 pm

Rick, since the BMCC sensor is smaller than MFT full gate, I doubt it will. It works on a GH4 in sensor crop mode, but the PCC4K is a much wider open gate size. But as to the cover glass thickness and Metsbones SB compatibly, I think this answer will come with CineGear Expo.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu May 24, 2018 1:28 am

Denny Smith wrote:The new Metsbones MFT XL and Ultra wil, work with the new PC4K, depending on the lens you are using.
Cheers
What's the current typical street price(s) seen on those 2 newer iterations of SpeedBooster in the USA -- anyone?

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu May 24, 2018 4:54 am

The Canon EF to MFT Ultra is around $450, while the XL is $600, the Nikon/MFT XL is $450-500 and the Ultra is the same, but harder to find.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu May 24, 2018 5:17 am

If the image circle thrown by the SpeedBooster BMCC is too small, then I’ll be hoping BMD goes with a 4mm sensor glass. Otherwise I’ll have to think about it.


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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu May 24, 2018 5:51 am

Rick, even without a SB, the wider MFT sensor is very close to open gate 3-perf Cine 35mm open gate, so your field of view is still pretty good, not the big crop of thr. I or and original Pocket camera S16 sensor.

I quit using the original MFT SB with my AF100, after I got some good WA MFT glass. The SB did make my 28mm Zeiss Lens I to a 20mm AOV, bit the 35 became a 25mm and the 50mm a 35mm, so except for the 28mm, it was not worth the hassle, if you already have the 25 and 35mm.

The wider XL Speed Booster changes this however, giving a better expanded AOV, and might be worth the extra expense.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed Jun 13, 2018 3:59 pm

Here’s another opportunity coming up in New Jersey.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed Jun 13, 2018 6:58 pm

I just want to know where is there a skateboard park with zero grafitti?
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu Jun 14, 2018 1:41 am

Behind the guy wearing a coat, in front of the dudes in short-sleeves.
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BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu Jun 14, 2018 4:04 am

Those are all composites. The BTS shows the guy with the camera is really holding a bouquet of flowers, the skateboarder is actually surfing with a 30 cm swell forming, and the concrete is really a California sand dune with a special effect applied. Just ask Savannah if I’m right.


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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu Jun 14, 2018 5:45 am

Andres Guzman wrote:Hello all. Has anyone come across whether the BMPCC 4K will allow CFast/SD copy to SSD disks? It’s all over the interwebs that it’ll write to SSD, just curious whether it’ll allow ‘copy to SSD.’ Thanks.

-Andy


Great idea!


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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu Jun 14, 2018 6:33 am

MikeMeagher wrote:I just want to know where is there a skateboard park with zero grafitti?


Interesting Rick. Mike, Ft.Bragg CA has one, very clean too.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostFri Jun 15, 2018 3:00 pm

rick.lang wrote:Those are all composites.


It is BMD's subtle way of reminding us that the camera will be released in the Summer of the Northern hemisphere and the Winter of the Southern hemisphere.(Kathmandu puffy jacket is a New Zealand brand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathmandu_(company)).

Judging by the shadow of the skateboarder and hot light on the back of foreground model, the detail to lighting direction is good, but on the cover of the brochure I have, there is a tiny piece of chroma green under his right leg.

How many sleeps before we see the camera on the market?
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostFri Jun 15, 2018 7:06 pm

rick.lang wrote:Those are all composites. The BTS shows the guy with the camera is really holding a bouquet of flowers, the skateboarder is actually surfing with a 30 cm swell forming, and the concrete is really a California sand dune with a special effect applied. Just ask Savannah if I’m right.


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Seems legit.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSat Jun 16, 2018 1:06 am

I'm not sure if I remember correctly but wasn't the original BMCC a EF mount only camera before it was MFT? It was an odd choice but EF being more popular back then, that's probably why the did it. So once they added an MFT mount, they probably didn't change the sensor glass. Since it didn't cause huge problems they likely reused the sensor glass for the BMPCC as it's a smaller cut of the same sensor.

This new camera is a 100% dedicated micro 4/3 camera so they might go with thicker glass.

A lot of skateparks in LA surprisingly have no graffiti because they probably either clean it or there's a lot of security. I'm not sure how much of their images are composites for the purpose of making the images more grand, or are they just to give a dreamy look to everything.

The guy in the jacket does look to have slightly different lighting than the BG shot, but maybe that's just a reflector and some diffusion. If this shot is a composite (which it might be), there are a couple noticeable tells. The perfectly uniform pentagonal bokeh in the background does look odd, but not a lot any DOF plugins (and I've probably used all of them from fusion/nuke/ae) produce that as a default result. There maybe be a dark outline around where the jacket crosses over the trees in the BG looking on the blackmagic website image, but hard to tell. Overall the lightwrap is not overused like a lot of composites tend to have, so I think it's simply Blackmagic does seem to prefer and stylized look to their images.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSun Jun 17, 2018 11:12 am

Savannah Miller wrote:I'm not sure if I remember correctly but wasn't the original BMCC a EF mount only camera before it was MFT?


Yes.

BMD were very nervous about how their camera would be received. You also have to remember how much of a secret it was. It wasn't like they'd been doing focus groups and market research. This was a toe in the water to see if they could do something. I had a special disguise that was made for the prototype body I had that covered the camera so you couldn't really tell what it was.

BMD did a great job of surprising everyone. No one saw it coming.

Conceptually they saw that the 5D was very popular with film makers and they wanted to one up the crappy 8 bit 264 Codec that everyone was struggling with.

MFT was added as a quick fix to those wanting to adapt other lenses and PL mount but this was only added just in time for IBC in September.



Savannah Miller wrote: It was an odd choice but EF being more popular back then, that's probably why the did it. So once they added an MFT mount, they probably didn't change the sensor glass. Since it didn't cause huge problems they likely reused the sensor glass for the BMPCC as it's a smaller cut of the same sensor.

This new camera is a 100% dedicated micro 4/3 camera so they might go with thicker glass.



I really don't understand the talk of the sensor glass thickness.

No other MFT maker has the same thickness sensor stack / glass, some may some may not have OLPF's too. Does it affect pictures from native optics to do so ?

The ONLY ones complaining about the sensor glass thickness is the guy that designs speedboosters.

Has anyone ever seen a thread about MFT mount lenses not working optically on a Blackmagic camera ? Aside from the early days of the FFD issue (nothing to do with cover glass) I'm going to save you some searching and say that no one ever found cause to complain about the problems of the BMD sensor glass thickness until Speedbooster's came along.

Maybe there is a difference. But if there is, no one's ever spotted in usage yet !

The whole point of the speedbooster is to add an extra optical element to the original lens design.

You don't get something for nothing here by the way. Lot's of issues can happen with speedboosters, like not being flat across the field (focus) and significant degradation at the edges of the image.

A different sensor glass thickness means they can't recycle their existing optomised optical formula and have to make a custom version to suit Blackmagic cameras.

As I understand, the thinner cover glass means that speedbooster lenses that are faster than T2.8 have more issues at the edges. They can adjust for that difference, they just don't want to have to make a new optical design with the associated costs of doing so.

Brian posts here occasionally and he may care to step forward and explain it, but I believes it's a pretty big gross misrepresentation to infer the 'non standard" cover glass as being a giant issue.

Can anyone point out issues to do with the thin cover glass on their native MFT mount lenses ?

JB

(And by the way, MFT sensor glass is much thicker generally than those used on larger format cameras like a 5D. BMD's glass thickness is closer to that of larger format stills cameras.)
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSun Jun 17, 2018 12:31 pm

John Brawley, have you shot with PCC4K? Can you talk about when we should expect to see some official footage?
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSun Jun 17, 2018 4:09 pm

I concur with John about Speed Boosters, I shot on th original BMPCC (same sensor glass as BMCC, with the original Metsbones SB x 0.71 thst Brian designed, with a Tokina f/3.5 and the Zeiss ZF f/2.0 28mm, and saw no issues with the focus on my images, or unusual distortion at the edges. That said, the only real advantage then to the SB was getting a wider field of view from a lens like the 17mm, and a stop more light on this slow lens.

As John pointed out, the real issue came out when People started using the Sigma 18-35 /1.4 lens or other fast lenses, wide open, and had focus issues at the edges. Then other fast 35mm lens issues also were complained, but mostly by pixel peepers.
I got the BMPCC SB when it csme out, andmthe on,y real difference I saw between the two, with the ZF 28mm, was increased field of view, closer to native S16 len FOV. A 50mm gave you the classic 29mm used in S16 for portrait type head shots.

I used native MFT glass from my AF100 on the Pocket camera and did not see any focus issues on the Pocket, just reduced FOV from the smaller sensor.

The original SB was designed for MFT sensor cameras, like the AF100 and GH2 which was gaining popularity with video shooters, and with the smaller sensors in the two BM cameras (BMCC/BMPCC), Brian did optimize a SB for the BMPCC and BMCC (increasing the expansion factor from 0.71 to 0.58 for the original BMPCC), while correcting for the thinner sensor glass to fix issues with faster lenses like the Sigma zoom.
Cheers
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSun Jun 17, 2018 5:53 pm

Denny Smith wrote:Brian could optimize a SB for each (increasing the expansion factor from 0.71 to 0.58 formthe BMPCC), while correcting for the thinner sensor glass to fix issues with faster lenses like the Sigma zoom.
Cheers


Brian Caldwell, PhD, please do! This camera will be a game changer.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 4:32 am

Andres, it’s possible Brian Caldwell may be reviewing the design of the SpeedBooster 0.5x that was made for one Pentax camera if memory serves me well.


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BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 11:12 pm

rick.lang wrote:...it’s possible Brian Caldwell may be reviewing the design of the SpeedBooster 0.5x ...


That would great, Rick. Thanks for the update.
————
The info below may be old news but just came across it. #sharing

https://www.newsshooter.com/2018/06/05/cine-gear-2018-core-swx-v-mount-powerbase-edge-swiss-army-knife-batteries-power-dslr-mirrorless-camera-hours-plus-d-tap-extra-kit/



https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1416942-REG

My point is: accessories are coming.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 12:38 am

And... here we go...

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 1:52 am

Nice video, Mark Wyatt is great. It would be nice to see this in 4K too!
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 2:13 am

Nick Papps wrote:Nice video, Mark Wyatt is great. It would be nice to see this in 4K too!

It is available in Vimeo in 4K.

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 2:27 am

Peter Odio wrote:It is available in Vimeo in 4K.


Definitely more detail in Vimeo’s 4K rendition vs. YouTube’s 1080 (as expected). Too bad it was not in HDR but I’m glad footage has finally come out.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 5:09 am

Mark Wyatt’s video comments mentioned ISO 400, 1250, 2500. Typos? Did he mean 12800 and 25600?


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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:09 am

You can probably dial in the iso in half or one-third stop increments, a lot of cameras do this nowadays.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 8:57 am

It's in UHD on youtube as well, but it seems Apple and Google aren't getting along about VP9 so in Safari you only get HD. I expect this to change once Apple implements hardware support for VP9 in macOS.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 3:33 pm

Sean van Berlo wrote:You can probably dial in the iso in half or one-third stop increments, a lot of cameras do this nowadays.


If shooting in raw, you'll be able to fine tune that in Resolve anyway.

I think it's more of a UI design thing than anything else though, since the more ISO options you have the more annoying that menu gets, just because it gets so long, and it's one that you're likely to use quite a bit.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 10:14 pm

Expected availability is now for October.

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 11:13 pm

pushed back to Oct. 5th, I hear a collective "not again" coming :|
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BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 11:24 pm

Not again! So much for using this on a shoot in September. Just after seeing John Brawley’s lovely one minute short with the BMPCC4K my hopes did increase, but now dashed.


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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 11:50 pm

Let me put this out very clearly. The dates communicated by B&H (or any other reseller) at this point are not from us.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 11:51 pm

Kristian Lam wrote:Let me put this out very clearly. The dates communicated by B&H (or any other reseller) at this point are not from us.


Great point! Thank you for the clarification.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 11:51 pm

Thank you, sir! Keep the faith.


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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 1:09 am

B&H is just pubishing when they expect to get their stock Nd have it available for shipping out, which is not always first. Adorama often has new release cameras in stock before B&H. This was true of the Micro Studio and Micro Cinema Cameras.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 4:14 pm

rick.lang wrote:Thank you, sir! Keep the faith.


One thing to keep in mind is that it would be somewhat less surprising to discover that ice is cold than that B&H's first expected shipment of BMPCC4Ks is already spoken for. :)

Also, B&H still has the new Mavic 2s listed for preorder, while DJI is already shipping them to customers.

That won't happen with the BMPCC4K since BMD doesn't sell directly to customers, it's just an example of distribution network asymmetry.

I suspect that B&H's availability estimate is partly a result of its preorder queue. I don't expect there to be many of these little beasts sitting on shelves ready for purchase for a while after BMD starts shipping them. It ticks too many boxes for too little money to NOT sell.

I'll probably get one myself, just to gimbalize it. (Time to turn that into part of our lexicon ;)).
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 3:55 am

Just for the record. We know now that B&H have said the Oct 5 date is for new orders...placed now.

We ordered a pair from them a couple of hours after GP's presentation, so I'm expecting to see them early Sept.

I bet I'm right.
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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostThu Aug 30, 2018 4:25 am

Jim Giberti wrote:Just for the record. We know now that B&H have said the Oct 5 date is for new orders...placed now.

We ordered a pair from them a couple of hours after GP's presentation, so I'm expecting to see them early Sept.

I bet I'm right.


This would be great as I was thinking/hoping this as well, but where did we see that confirmed?
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Andres Guzman

  • Posts: 85
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BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSat Sep 01, 2018 2:43 am

I hope this camera stays on time. The Canon EOS R full frame mirrorless might be too tempting.
v/r
Andy
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rick.lang

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  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSat Sep 01, 2018 4:51 am

Perhaps we shall have another email from Grant Petty around IBC 2018. That’s going to be quite the show this year.


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Rick Lang
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Sean van Berlo

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  • Location: The Netherlands

Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSat Sep 01, 2018 7:04 am

No... No footage today? *starts nervously scratching his arms* C'mon man, I need my fix.
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Ryan Payne

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Re: BMPCC 4K - While We Wait...

PostSat Sep 01, 2018 8:15 am

Sean van Berlo wrote:No... No footage today? *starts nervously scratching his arms* C'mon man, I need my fix.


Saturday today in Aus, not a work day. If there's more I'd expect it on monday/ your sunday.
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