URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

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Benjamin Kratzin

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URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostTue Jun 05, 2018 2:30 am

‪Hi everybody, ‬

‪I recently had several issues with the Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k and the SSD module. On several shoots the SSD randomly crashed during the shoot. The SSD hard drive was not accessible afterwards and all the shots were gone. We did not manage to restore the hard drive anymore. It was completely destroyed. This happened twice with two different SSD hard drives. Once we shot ProRes 422 and the other time when we shot Raw 4.6K.‬

‪Here the specs for the SSD drives we used:‬
‪Samsung ssd 850 pro 1TB‬
‪Never had problems with this dive in other systems ever.‬

‪Has anybody had the same experience and found out what the problem could be?‬

‪Thanks Ben‬
Director / DP / VFX Supervisor | www.benjaminkratzin.com | vimeo.com/benjaminkratzin
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostTue Jun 05, 2018 4:10 am

Did you power the camera down (off) before removing the SSD? If not, this could have caused the data corruption issue, as SSD should be mounted and unmourned with the system powered off, they are not plug and play devices.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Denny Smith
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Benjamin Kratzin

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostTue Jun 05, 2018 6:59 am

Hi Denny,

thank you for your fast answer. I never removed the SSD during the shoot it always stayed in the camera as it wasn’t full.. Which made it even stranger.
As said never had similar issues with CFast Cards. Disappointing as SSDs would be a better workaround for the handheld unit.

Cheers Ben
Director / DP / VFX Supervisor | www.benjaminkratzin.com | vimeo.com/benjaminkratzin
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Tim Schumann

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostTue Jun 05, 2018 8:51 pm

You shouldn't need to power down to eject.

Have you checked that the SSD recorder is on the latest software?
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostTue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 pm

Interesting Tim, all the SSD docking modules I have used all say to power off the docking unit before you remove the SSD or damage to the SSD could result. Maybe I am being a bit over cautious, but better that than loose some video footage.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Denny Smith
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David Hutchinson

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostWed Jun 06, 2018 9:06 pm

I have to admit to not powering the camera down at all when ejecting SSDs and I have to say it's all been rock solid - no issues..... up till now :-)
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostThu Jun 07, 2018 6:16 am

Yes, it is the one time that will bite you in the ... :roll:
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rick.lang

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostFri Jun 08, 2018 4:47 pm

SATA may support hot swapping, but when you’re recording on a device, I’ve always felt it’s safer to wait a bit and then power down before removing a device. Actually I may be overly cautious but I also only insert media in the camera when the camera is powered off. Those CFast 2 cards are just too expensive to gamble (not to mention the pain of losing footage) and if I ever get the SSD module for the URSA Mini, I’d do the same.


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Andreas Eymannsberger

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 11:13 am

I am encountering the same problem, had it twice. The data is usually restorable with Mac OS and the repair option, but comepletely gone if there's only windows machines on set.

Had this happen with different Transcend SSD370, which are supported for everything.
The interesting issue is, that it seems not at all connected to the SSD being supported or not. By accident I once bought SSD370S(!), which are not supported and hat - what can be expected - frame drop issues. So far so good, at least the frame drops don't have me recover the whole media. It's definitely the recorder or the communication between camera and recorder corrupting something on the SSDs.

The problem mentioned here could have to do with power supply. On the two occurences I am thinking that the camera ran out of battery and wasn't turned off properly. With a new battery, the camera can't start to record the next click (the REC-indicator bottom center of the screen) goes on and immediately out.
What happens next is either after a reboot (you know, restart everything if there's a fault...) or already in this state: The SSD slot #2 (which is used by the recorder) just shows 'format'.

So I am thinking it doesn't have to do with the support of the cards, but is a power issue of some sort with the recorder. Of course you are not supposed to let the cam run out of battery, but it has gotten to a level that I simply can't trust the SSD recorder recorder to work properly anymore.

Does BMD know of any issues or how to solve this unrealiability?

Edit: This was on UM46K
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Patrick Acum

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 10:20 pm

Aww man!! Don't say this, Ive just ordered mine and some WD 1TB drives (on the approved list second tier)
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MadPanic

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostMon Jan 14, 2019 11:13 pm

SSD's are prone to complete corruption unlike hard disks. Like others, I completely power down before removing. I've been bitten by a complete loss (in an Atomos recorder) due to unplugging with power on. I've also had some odd operation of some SSD's that when put into the MAC are not even recognised, then put into the recorder and also not recognised. A few computer reboots, and some more random happenings, and they start to read. This only happens with some SSD's, so as a technology, I am wary.

With regards to the BMD SSD recorder, I've not had mine long and am using a recommended Samsung 850 PRO 1 TB. Whilst doing some battery tests on the URSA broadcast, I let it run flat and was impressed that the camera appears to do housekeeping and closed the file before shutting down. Would be good if someone from BMD confirms the operation. Maybe formatting the drive before each use helps?
DaVinci Resolve Studio 18.6.5 build7, MacStudio M2 Ultra 128Gb, OSX Sonoma,10TB SSD (2TB, & 2x 4TB). URSA Broadcast 6.7, BMPCC 6K, Cubase 13
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carlomacchiavello

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 8:09 am

More simple question, do you have checked the power contact of ssd recorder?
May be it is weak connection and some false contacts could cause to you the problem.
First thing I check in every electric and electronic problems are ever the connectors.


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Andreas Eymannsberger

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostTue Jan 15, 2019 10:44 am

I haven't really been able to check whether the files are being written completely when the camera is shutting down whilst recording (which usually doesn't happen), but rather trying to identify the connection between it shutting down inbeneath recordings and corrupting the SSD whilst doing so.

But I will check the electric connection of the recorder. As it sits on the inside it's hard to imagine it coming loose, but will give it a try.
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Andreas Eymannsberger

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 5:36 pm

Is Blackmagic aware of certain problems or issues with the SSD recorder?
Any help with trouble shooting? This is after all a certified accessory, that's why I bought the Blackmagic SSD recorder and not any third party solutions in the first place. Now it's not working with certified SSDs and one is always in danger of losing data.

The power cables have a clip to secure the connection and it's within tightly screwed parts of the camera, recorder and battery plate, there shouldn't be any faulty power connection.
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostThu Jan 17, 2019 6:51 pm

You could have a bad interment wire termination (connection to the Molex connector). Somof these camera connectors had issues previously. It would be worth checking out.
Cheers
Denny Smith
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Andreas Eymannsberger

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 11:38 am

Denny Smith wrote:You could have a bad interment wire termination (connection to the Molex connector). Somof these camera connectors had issues previously. It would be worth checking out.
Cheers


Any way that I can check this on my own? The camera itself doesn't show any signs of improper power distribution which perhaps shoud be the case when everything is powered through the battery at the back.

It's just so hard to trouble shoot with so many different possibilities (faulty SDI connectors, faulty power distribution, faulty SATA-bus, I guess there are even more aspects I'm not even aware of).

The thing that's good and bad at the same time is that it doesn't happen all the time. Which is a good thing I guess. The bad thing is that it is about data safety. I could perhaps live with a faulty connector powering the camera down and maybe corrupting a single take - if there is no solution in sight. But since the crash is destroying the integrity of the SSD it's hardly anything that is ok to happen from time to time.
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Linell Roy

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 7:00 pm

Has the SSD recorder ever had an update since release ?
Last edited by Linell Roy on Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Denny Smith

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostFri Jan 18, 2019 7:01 pm

You could RMA the camera/recorder to BM Support and have it checked.
Cheers
Denny Smith
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Andreas Eymannsberger

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostSat Jan 19, 2019 11:03 am

Linell Roy wrote:Has the SSD recorder ever had an update since release ?


I just checked. With Camera 6.0 there were no Updates, it is still 4.7

I could, have contacted support. As I am using it with the EF 4.6K, don't even know if there is support. End of life.

Will see what support suggests.
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Linell Roy

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostFri Feb 01, 2019 6:50 pm

I'm still having issues with my recorder with approved SSD myself. Seems SSD gets warm inside recorder then droppes frames and freezes camera. Using cfast to SSD breakout cable has no issues
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robert Hart

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 3:14 pm

This is probably a string of silly questions. -

Have you tried connecting the faulty SSD to other computers?

If you did and it did not show in the computer's Explorer list of available hard drives but shows as there in the hardware list, have you tried initialising the drive as if it were a new drive.

Slightly offtopic, if you have a CF card, not a CFast2 card and it has been corrupted, it may be recoverable by a Sound Devices SD702 audio recorder. I had two 2Gb CF cards corrupted by an attempt to clone via Acronis some safety cards for the SI2K camera operating system which used them for a C:drive.

The SD702 saw the cards and successfully reformatted them in its exFAT standard and they were then seen by another computer which could reformat the to NTFS.

So there may be a computer or operating system which can still see your corrupted SSD.
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robert Hart

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 5:59 pm

Footnote to above, as malign and fateful coincidence would have it, my own Samsung 840 EVO has gone down for the count as a data drive in my edit computer which also took a dive three days ago.

This web page might be worth a look. It seems the Samsung SSDs may have a flaw which Samsung has addressed partially.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/1 ... you-update
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robert Hart

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostSat Feb 02, 2019 6:21 pm

Further to my posts above, I put the Samsung drive into a SATA slot in my Windows 10 computer when the computer was shut down and depowered at the wall for good measure.

On start up, the computer saw a sad corrupted drive and started a repair function which seems to have brought it back.

Using power shell in Windows to do in my instance "cd E:" then "chkdsk E:" didn't work as the drive could not be seen.
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pierrealchimeo

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostFri Apr 12, 2019 10:12 am

same trouble here. I have ursa mini pro with SSD docking blackmagic and i have 3 disks samsung evo 850PRO. my 3 disks crashs and the data is gone... I don't eject my SSD when my camera is power on and i don't play football with. i'm serious confused. :oops:
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schnorggnorg

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Re: URSA MINI PRO SSD MODULE CRASH

PostFri Dec 20, 2019 11:16 pm

It crashed on Tuesday with the UMP i used. It wrecked three SSDs worth of footage during the shooting.
I found a solution to rescuing the files (kinda), but i haven't found a solution to it not happening anymore, but i'm on it.


How I rescued the files (using Windows):
I started off doing a 1:1/bit-by-bit/dd/whatever you may call it backup using HDD Raw Copy. This is optional, but it creates a "raw" .img-Image on a separate drive which you can use in the next step. This just ensures no further damage is done to the SSDs or the footage.

I opened testdisk, a fabulous free piece of software which allows you to open up the damaged .img or SSD and interpret it using predefined filesystems. Even though it automatically interprets both .img and SSD as "HPFS - NTFS" instead of exFAT (and i found no exFAT in the available systems), it found MOST of my footage. The program is able to copy these files back to another drive, and in my case none was corupt.


My observations:
  • The rescued files don't seem damaged, only the broken file system makes it unreadable.
  • Even though the problem occured on the UMP with firmware version 6.0 and our replacement UMP had the same setup but the newer 6.2 firmware and no problems whatsoever, it seems like the data loss never occurred on the 6.0-UMP on the projects before. The question is if the newer firmware eliminates this issue, we had no time to test this yet.
  • Interestingly, on both rescued SSDs C001-C003 got lost, i could only save C004 and the ones following.
  • It seems like the camera started writing the new file and failed, because the latest clip on both SSDs got created, but contains no information but the correct file name. Thus I doubt a hardware issue like dust is the problem.
  • We somehow fixed the third SSD by pressing on playback directly after the problem occured, before we turned the camera off and back on and other stuff. So maybe restarting is more or less "saving" the damage and going in the playback menu is somehow repairing the damaged file system?

I will try to take some time to inspect the issue more clearly, but i hope the problem is solved in the newer firmware.
Someone experiencing the same problems still? Would be interested to hear more details about your situation and if my solution to rescuing data helped.

Greets
Georg

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