UMP > VA Incorrect start TC via SDI

Good evening all,

Just picked up a VA with the intention of using it for proxies, currently have it set to record via SDI, though when I import both the RAW files and the proxies into Resolve, the VA is consistently 1-4 frames behind in start TC. I'm running an external TC generator (coming from sound), and have the SSD module on the UMP.

Everything is latest firmware.


Any ideas where I might be running into issues?

Cheers!

Stephen.

Stephen, the same problem here. We tried almost all possible solutions to no avail. Used another external recorder the same un-sync result. Different cables, batteries, file formats, cards etc... Proxies do not sync with the files/videos recorded in SDD in camera. 3 to 5 frames via front or the main SDI and nearly 10 frames off via Rec Run. Nearly 2 frames at the beginning are off and 2 to 3 frames at the end are off so in premiere it is entirely impossible to use proxies.

Would an expert from Blackmagic help to address this problem? This is a real concern.
Thank you guys,
Seb

interesting...
Cheers

This used to work perfectly, but trying it now with newer firmware I too get a delay on the Video Assist, but only one frame. I tried both Main and Front SDI outputs, with and without Clean Feed.

Ursa Mini 4.6 (not Pro) firmware v4.8
Video Assist firmware v2.5.1

I haven't tried older firmware now, but maybe this started happening when BMD improved the latency of the SDI output on the Ursa Mini (since firmware v4.8 for the 4.6K and firmware v4.5 for the 4.6K Pro).

Confirmed. I went back to a firmware version before the SDI latency was improved, and now the sync is perfect.

Thanks for the responses, guys - appreciate it.

Assuming that each clip will be trimmed in the edit due to slates etc, is there any practical problem in using it as it stands (with a 2-4 frame delay at the start)? Will they all relink correctly?

My plan was to record all the proxies onto the VA and edit using those, before relinking back to the raw files using timecode. If that won't work however, I should find a different method..

[Tim Schumann]

Just picked up a VA with the intention of using it for proxies, currently have it set to record via SDI, though when I import both the RAW files and the proxies into Resolve, the VA is consistently 1-4 frames behind in start TC. I'm running an external TC generator (coming from sound), and have the SSD module on the UMP.

Everything is latest firmware.

Any ideas where I might be running into issues?

Timecode on the camera's recorded files and the Video Assist should match on the current firmware. They will have slightly different timecode start points but if you line them up using their timecode they will be in sync.

Timecode on the camera's recorded files and the Video Assist should match on the current firmware. They will have slightly different timecode start points but if you line them up using their timecode they will be in sync.

Yes Tim, have noticed that - would there be any workflow issues down the end of the line? Presuming so long as there's no need for that first couple frames, it'll all be fine when I relink?


Cheers,

Stephen.

Tim, would it be possible to add an option in the camera firmware to get back the old behaviour before the SDI latency improvement where the starting timecodes would match?

The only way I've found to sync the non-matching starting timecodes in Resolve is to create a multicam clip with all the clips, where Angle Sync is set to Timecode. You also need to check "Detect clips from same camera" and have some appropriate metadata in the clips to allow Resolve to detect which angle is which.

This way you will end up with a multicam clip containing all the clips laid out according to timecode. Then you can right click the multicam clip, select "Open in Timeline", copy the whole timeline and paste the clips into a new timeline. Now you can manually trim the clips so they start on the same frame, then use Media Management to create losslessly trimmed copies of all the clips (this is why you needed to create a new timeline, it won't work directly from the multicam clip timeline). Done, phew. Note that this has to be done before starting to edit.

I hope there's a better way.
(Edit: There is - a normal reconform works, see below)

[Tim Schumann]

would there be any workflow issues down the end of the line? Presuming so long as there's no need for that first couple frames, it'll all be fine when I relink?

Correct.

If you only have one days worth of footage that all is shot within one 24 hour period then there will be no timecode double ups and editing with the Video Assist files and proxies and then relinking to the URSA Mini's master files should work fine. All of the frames on the VA's proxy files will be in the camera master files. This works in Resolve and we tested with Premiere here and it works as well.

If you are shooting a longer project where you are shooting across multiple days with time-of-day code then there may be timecode double-ups so you can't rely on timecode alone. If you are using Resolve you could either ingest the matching proxies / camera files for each day into bins for each day and then when you conform make sure you are only grabbing matched timecode clips within the same bin. Or you could force the reel number for the Video Assist files to match the camera reel as you ingest so that when you relink for online you are only looking for clips that match timecode and the same reel. To do this you would need to make sure you have selected the correct conform options so that Resolve pulls in the reel number from the camera files automatically. This can be done in Resolve's Conform options by selecting 'Source clip file pathname' or 'Embedding in Source Clip File' option. Then you manually assign the correct reel number to your VA proxy files for each mag when you ingest.

Either way it is manageable and as long as the time code matches. If you really, really need the first few frames of any particular clip you will have that in your master camera files and could transcode that clip for offline using Resolve.

If you need more in depth workflow help it might be worth trying Dwayne from the Resolve team in the Post Production area of this forum.

Roger it is not possible to add an option for multiple firmwares, however if you prefer this build you can simply roll your camera back to Camera 4.5.

Ah, I see now that I was mistaken in thinking a normal reconform wouldn't work when the starting timecodes weren't the same.

Conforming on Source Timecode doesn't require matching starting timecodes. This tutorial is incorrect in that regard (but good otherwise): https://moviola.com/webinars/creating-rawproxy-workflow-blackmagic-video-assist-4k/

Roger it is not possible to add an option for multiple firmwares, however if you prefer this build you can simply roll your camera back to Camera 4.5.

But doesn't rolling the firmware back to Camera 4.5 mean the SDI latency improvement within the latest firmware is no longer available? Surely this can't be a solution for VA timecode discrepancy.

I hope there's a better way too. The reconform between proxies/camera files sounds like a workaround. Is another firmware update underway, with a bug fix to address this VA timecode discrepancy?