What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 3:50 pm

Ryan Payne wrote:You wont ever see Sony put up a full frame 10bit mirrorless. Only place your getting that is from a Sony cinema camera. Sony just doesn't need to as there's no full frame competition.

M43 is full of competition because Sony sells those sensors but keeps their full frame.


Sony does actually sell full frame sensors... I'm guessing that most are custom, but there are companies like Nikon that get sensors from Sony. So for that matter do Phase One, Hasselblad, and Fuji -- even though Fuji makes its smaller than full frame sensors in-house.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 8950
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 10, 2018 5:28 pm

The new Nikon full-frame mirrorless camera.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline

bzpop

  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:11 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 1:34 pm

I hope BMD will follow the trend and join the large format race.
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 4:17 pm

bzpop wrote:I hope BMD will follow the trend and join the large format race.


I'm sure BMD will eventually... my guess is that BMD will launch an LF version of the Ursa Mini when it can build and sell it for $6K or so.

For now though, BMD is going about it right -- provided that the Pocket 4K doesn't slip and become another egg in the face, obviously. I'm hoping that BMD is just building inventory of that to prepare for the order rush it's going to get.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline

michaeldhead

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 5:07 pm

Rakesh Malik wrote:I'm hoping that BMD is just building inventory of that to prepare for the order rush it's going to get.


Order rush it *has already received*. :)
Michael D Head
www.michaeldhead.com
writer/director/DP
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 8950
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 6:54 pm

Although I’m not asking for it, I guess BMD will be thinking hard about full-frame 36x24mm sensors because after many failed attempts I have been unsuccessful in loading B&H Photo’s promotional videos for the upcoming Nikon Z6/7 cameras no doubt due to the web traffic trying to see those videos. And that camera shoots 4K video too. I’m trying to find out how it does 4K from sensors that support 23/45MB stills. I guess I’ll learn someday but maybe not this week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 8:05 pm

michaeldhead wrote:
Rakesh Malik wrote:I'm hoping that BMD is just building inventory of that to prepare for the order rush it's going to get.


Order rush it *has already received*. :)


I have a feeling that there are quite a few people interested in it who are waiting for it to start shipping before ordering, too :)
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostFri Aug 24, 2018 8:08 pm

rick.lang wrote:I’m trying to find out how it does 4K from sensors that support 23/45MB stills. I guess I’ll learn someday but maybe not this week.


Probably by down sampling to 4K from the full sensor, like most of its direct competitors (e.g. current a7 models). If it's down sampling by processing the image and then sampling it like an image editing application would, then it will look good. If it's down sampling by line skipping as was the case in older hybrids, it won't hold up to the competition all that well.

I'm guessing it's the former. Nikon might be slow to innovate, but it does tend to get things right when it puts its mind to the project.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1120
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 1:55 am

I hope the pocket is used as a foray into the conventional camera market. Our local consumer camera shop has a professional broadcast camera operator. They had a display cabinet for the old pocket briefly, but how many people were going buy that without at least 4k stills. These days the industry has moved on to higher resolutions, so the 4k pocket is basic as far as stills go, but an eventual move to 8k is good for stills even poster size (you can go a little bigger in posters, but 40-80 inch reasonable quality at reading distance). At that stage they have something good for consumer and professional stills use and all they need to do is produce a better camera same resolution. Competing at this level, they can drastically reduce costs and offer quality product at a good price. But Red has bypassed this restriction, by planning to do multi angle 3D sensors, like the light 16 pocket camera does. This requires a higher workload that is harder to do cheaply at high quality in higher speed and resolution video, giving them, they hope many yea s of market survivability in the area. But as always, you got to listen to people, or to yourself if you have it. In a few years magnetic computing is going to make that amount of computing power in a low energy envelope trivial, or around 2004 if I could have developed my technology.

So, Red has to depend on costs of that technology being high, delays, initial developer advantage (the new Kodak) and branding, to present well sorted out technology (5 years+ advantage) quality from a brand people want to buy from (long term advantage). Meanwhile 2D companies struggle as new workflows using this processing technology is more trivial to handle the multi angle 3D computational technology (people can more readily afford desktop computing using it, even in limited proessing sections in the processor). The future Is to line up product against this. Starting development early. Red maybe aiming to muscle out other competitors like Arii and survive against Sony who are working on holographic cameras, which are likely more intensive in processing than the multi angle technology. So, there is a future for Sony, Red and somebody else.
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 8950
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 4:27 am

Nikon has been quiet on the video front. But they obviously have not been sleeping. It could be scary good. Being first across the finish line can be fraught with problems. When you’re the last one across the finish line, it’s not inconceivable that they’ll have learned from everyone who has gone before them and produce stellar results. I’m eager to see how this goes even though I already preordered the BMPCC4K. The camera I like isn’t much more, $1996 versus $1295!

As a stills camera, I’d buy it; throw in very good 4K video and it’s tempting. They say it’s UHD though and I’m such a fan of higher aspect ratios.

Rakesh, downscaling from full sensor should give a good result. I haven’t been on their web site to see the size of the sensor but it will be just under 6000x4000 photosites for the Z6 camera with 6 micron photosites. The Z7 could be more than 8192x5460, 4.4 micron photosites? Stills shooters might favour the Z7 but cinematographers will prefer the Z6.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 5:09 am

rick.lang wrote:Rakesh, downscaling from full sensor should give a good result. I haven’t been on their web site to see the size of the sensor but it will be just under 6000x4000 photosites for the Z6 camera with 6 micron photosites. The Z7 could be more than 8192x5460, 4.4 micron photosites? Stills shooters might favour the Z7 but cinematographers will prefer the Z6.


They're also back side illuminated, don't forget. Moving the logic circuitry behind the sensor enables it to gather quite a bit more light than standard.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 8950
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 5:13 am

Sweet. I don’t know if they’ve published the dynamic range for the Z6 UHD Video but it should be as good or better than the BMPCC4K. I stand by my early speculation that BMD’s next move will be to 6144x3456 photosites, 6K not 8K if they stay with a custom design of the 4.6K sensor technology. But maybe they’ll abandon that and redesign the photosite too. They have a lot invested in their 4.6K sensor so a 6K layout seems likely and fits reasonably well as a ‘budget’ almost ‘full frame’ sensor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by rick.lang on Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rick Lang
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1120
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSat Aug 25, 2018 11:08 am

Which of the upcoming cameras had 8k video in the spec? I've heard it claimed it's time lapse like a previous model (which is like saying that old 4Gpixel camera does gigapixel video). So I'm hoping it's actual video.
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 9085
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 12:43 am

Rick, from what I have been able to find out, the Z7 captures 4K video full sensor by line skipping, but can go the DX window (S35 format) and use the full DX window (no line skipping) for UHD resolution. The Z6 with its smaller res sensor is UHD full sensor, like the PC4K, HD is down sampling from the entire sensor also. The examples I have managed to see were nice. The Z6 with its larger photo-sites is going to have less noise also.
I am also waiting to get the B&H sample downloaded, perhaps tonight.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 2:57 am

I suspect that eventually, BMD will do both go for more resolution and for higher frame rates, but either would be a worthwhile update.

We might see a high speed version of the 4.6K next, followed by a 5 or 6K version in the next generation. Or the other way around.

An who knows, BMD might even sort out the global shutter thing before going for a bigger sensor. That would also make for a pretty popular update...
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 8950
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 3:24 am

Thanks, Denny. To me that makes the Z6 the better hybrid option combining potentially good video and very good stills.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 8950
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 1:09 pm

I found one reference yesterday that mentioned the dynamic range of the Nikon Z is 12 stops.

I looked at lots of reviews and the consensus appears to be the most significant ‘fail’ of the Nikon Z cameras is that it only has one built-in recording media slot. The fear is that the card may fail at some point and could even occur during a shoot causing loss of recorded shots. Therefore the camera is entry-level and will only appeal to Nikon enthusiasts, not professional shooters who will remain with their current manufacturers who support two card slots for concurrent recording. Nikon has allegedly said that two slots would require a larger body and they wanted to keep the camera light (magnesium body).

The next ‘fail’ may be that the camera will only have two modest 35/50mm primes and a modest kit 24-70mm f/4 zoom at launch. A 58mm f/0.95 scheduled for 2019 should have been available now according to several reviewers to illustrate the value of the larger 55mm mount throat.

It didn’t seem important that many more lenses are coming next year and that currently 90 AF-S Mount electronic lenses are fully functional with the FTZ adapter including 5-axis IBIS, not to mention the older manual F mount lenses which will benefit from 3-axis IBIS.

At least we know now this camera won’t put much pressure on BMD to move to higher resolution hybrid cameras. Remind me not to aspire to design a camera folks. Wayne, count your blessings!
Rick Lang
Offline

Chris Chiasson

  • Posts: 395
  • Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:32 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 1:31 pm

I see them eventually making a Pocket 4K Pro. Flip out screen, full frame sensor, weather and dust resistance, etc.

But what I hope they do create is a Cine Micro 4K. Design to be controlled by a Video Assistent with touch controls, water proof, controls on the back, LCD strip that tells you what the current settings the camera is shooting on at a glance (similar to the LCD strip the GoPro has) USB C port for charging, displaying, and load footage to a Video Assistent, or load footage to an SSD. I’d want this, because with the Pocket 4K being so big, we need to have a smaller 4K Cine to make up for it.
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 9085
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 5:59 pm

Rick, if thst single slot in the Z Cameras was a single, SD or CF card slot, thst I would agree. But that single slot is a Sony XQD slot that can be upgraded to CFExpress with a FW update.

According to Sony, the XQD Card is,
Sony’s XQD memory cards are shockproof, magnet proof, anti-static and resistant to breakage, and offer full performance even in extreme temperatures, under exposure to intense UV light and airport X-rays machines. Designed for prolonged professional use, Sony XQD cards are tested for dependable storage, wherever you need to shoot.


Several of Nikon’s Pro-Line DSLRs use a single XQD card slot, not one failure has been reported
BM’s new Pocket 4K has one CFast and one SD, but only one or the other card can be used, not both, so no backup here either. Does this out the new PC4K in the consumer market only? Not likely, same with the single XQD.

Yes, the first three S lens offerejngs are more of a enthusiast type lens, or is it? From the images I have seen, both the 35mm and 50mm f/1.8 have excellent IQ, that rivals Zeiss Milvus or Otus lenses, and at f/1.8 both are dead sharp corner to corner, no flare, no CA, and no purple fringes. Bokeh is very nice and depthmof filed in a FF at f/1.8 is quite shallow, unless you want a paper thin DOF, then get the 50mm f/.95 Noct. Most existing f/1.2 or faster lenses, like the Voightlander f/.95 are not really that useable wide open, and need stopping down to f/1.8 or more, so where is the advantage? With the larger entry pupil of the wider Z mount allows, the S line lenses appear to be out performing previous Nikon pro lenses, and Zeiss, but time will tell, as more cameras/lenses get into the wild.

Are the new Nikon Z cameras competition for the BM PC4K? I do not think so, the PC4K is in a class by itself. More likely the new Z cameras, which are only UHD up to 30fps (120fps in HD), are competition for Panasonic GH5 and Sony A7 series Mirrorless Camera Line. This is a still camera that can take video.

The PC4k has XLR mic/line inputs, and more universal MFT mount which takes most other lenses, including PL Cine lenses, and records ProPres log and Raw internally. It is also less expensive than the rest, and comes with Resolve Studio!

Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 6:28 pm

These new Nikon cameras are competitors to the A7iii and A7Riii. They're primarily stills cameras, and it's evident that the video features are there to satisfy photographers who want a video option on their cameras.
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline

Savannah Miller

  • Posts: 156
  • Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 8:44 pm

Does the global shutter circuitry within the sensor have any negative impacts on the noise performance of the sensor? I wonder if it does and/or it's a simple process to remove from the design. If there is an improvement (not sure at all) and it's easy to fix it's possible we'll see a v2 refined sensor with better noise performance.

The main thing I notice about the 4.6K image is the vertical distribution of the noise is pretty easy to spot it over Alexa footage.
Offline
User avatar

Rakesh Malik

  • Posts: 2191
  • Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 am
  • Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostSun Aug 26, 2018 9:01 pm

It adds logic to the sensor, and one of the tradeoffs has always been a bit of a loss in sensitivity, sometimes also some loss in dynamic range as a result. Usually it's about a stop. Sony's been getting away with it on the F55 by having a very sensitive sensor in there, so it can maintain 14 stops, matching the F5's dynamic range, even though the F5 has a rolling shutter.

I'd expect that BMD will move to a BSI sensor in future generations, continuing to use a custom CFA, and either drop the global shutter circuitry in favor of higher frame rate support, or get the switchable global/rolling shutter business sorted out.

But that's just a theory. BMD's almost certainly already working on its next sensor, so it's anybody's guess what it will bring the to the table. It's been long enough now since the 4.6K sensor launched that it would be reasonable to think that a sensor update could be coming next year.

But BMD might also have something completely different in the works for next year. It wouldn't be the first time :)
Rakesh Malik
Cinematographer, photographer, adventurer, martial artist
http://WinterLight.studio
System:
HP Spectre x360 Kaby Lake-R w/ 1080Ti eGPU in RazerCore
Offline
User avatar

PaulDelVecchio

  • Posts: 788
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:33 am
  • Location: NY

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 1:24 am

Sure more resolution is probably the best bet as to what's next, but I'd personally like even more dynamic range, especially in the highlights. I think the resolution is fine where it is, especially with how sharp the 4.6k footage is already.
Paul Del Vecchio - Director/Producer
http://www.pauldv.net
http://www.youtube.com/user/pdelvecchio814
http://www.facebook.com/pauldv
http://instagram.com/pdelv
Twitter: @pauldv
Offline

michaeldhead

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 2:30 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:I hope the pocket is used as a foray into the conventional camera market. Our local consumer camera shop has a professional broadcast camera operator. They had a display cabinet for the old pocket briefly, but how many people were going buy that without at least 4k stills. These days the industry has moved on to higher resolutions, so the 4k pocket is basic as far as stills go, but an eventual move to 8k is good for stills even poster size (you can go a little bigger in posters, but 40-80 inch reasonable quality at reading distance). At that stage they have something good for consumer and professional stills use and all they need to do is produce a better camera same resolution. Competing at this level, they can drastically reduce costs and offer quality product at a good price. But Red has bypassed this restriction, by planning to do multi angle 3D sensors, like the light 16 pocket camera does. This requires a higher workload that is harder to do cheaply at high quality in higher speed and resolution video, giving them, they hope many yea s of market survivability in the area. But as always, you got to listen to people, or to yourself if you have it. In a few years magnetic computing is going to make that amount of computing power in a low energy envelope trivial, or around 2004 if I could have developed my technology.

So, Red has to depend on costs of that technology being high, delays, initial developer advantage (the new Kodak) and branding, to present well sorted out technology (5 years+ advantage) quality from a brand people want to buy from (long term advantage). Meanwhile 2D companies struggle as new workflows using this processing technology is more trivial to handle the multi angle 3D computational technology (people can more readily afford desktop computing using it, even in limited proessing sections in the processor). The future Is to line up product against this. Starting development early. Red maybe aiming to muscle out other competitors like Arii and survive against Sony who are working on holographic cameras, which are likely more intensive in processing than the multi angle technology. So, there is a future for Sony, Red and somebody else.


The original Pocket, or really any BMD camera, are not stills cameras. Never have been, and the Pocket4k is the first that I'm aware of that has a stills button. Why would you buy a cinema camera for stills if it isn't designed for it?

How many people bought the Pocket despite 4k? Well, it was used in multiple major films as a crash cam, including Avengers: Age of Ultron. 1080p didn't stop them from using it. And have you seen the Cinemark in-theater commercials for their "unicorn" projectors? One of the big selling points: 4k. Many theaters still project in 2k. It's streaming services (YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, for example) that are mainly supporting 4k - broadcast TV is still mainly 1080i tops, not even 1080p (there are, of course, exceptions).

3D at home was NAB 2013 or 2014 - how well did that work out? Yes, 3D theater showings will continue, but even those are seemingly becoming less frequent, not more frequent - the cost of post-conversion makes it unnecessary, and unless you're James Cameron or Peter Jackson, shooting with a true 3D rig isn't really feasible (my observation).

Are we going to see major feature films shot on the Pocket4k? No, probably not. As a crash cam in major features? Likely yes. Indies? Sure - I'm planning on doing it, at least. Corporate gigs? Absolutely. Commercials? Depends on budget, but probably yes (the winner of a Doritos Crash the Superbowl commercial [cardboard time machine] was shot on a BMCC a few years ago).
Last edited by michaeldhead on Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael D Head
www.michaeldhead.com
writer/director/DP
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 9085
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostMon Aug 27, 2018 5:11 pm

The Ursa I I Pro also has a “still” capture button, but these only do a frame grab and record it as a single Raw DNG frame written to a special folder in the SD/CFast card. This is not going to be any high res still photo like you would from a Panny GH4/5. The GH5S still gives you a JPEG or Panny Still Raw Frame, but this is closer to the resolution you are going to get from the new Pocket 4K or a Ursa Mini Pro.

But I agree, BM csmeras are not designed as a still photo csmera, like the GH series is.
Cheers
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1120
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 3:54 am

michaeldhead wrote:
Wayne Steven wrote:I hope the pocket is used as a foray into the conventional camera market. Our local consumer camera shop has a professional broadcast camera operator. They had a display cabinet for the old pocket briefly, but how many people were going buy that without at least 4k stills. These days the industry has moved on to higher resolutions, so the 4k pocket is basic as far as stills go, but an eventual move to 8k is good for stills even poster size (you can go a little bigger in posters, but 40-80 inch reasonable quality at reading distance). At that stage they have something good for consumer and professional stills use and all they need to do is produce a better camera same resolution. Competing at this level, they can drastically reduce costs and offer quality product at a good price. But Red has bypassed this restriction, by planning to do multi angle 3D sensors, like the light 16 pocket camera does. This requires a higher workload that is harder to do cheaply at high quality in higher speed and resolution video, giving them, they hope many yea s of market survivability in the area. But as always, you got to listen to people, or to yourself if you have it. In a few years magnetic computing is going to make that amount of computing power in a low energy envelope trivial, or around 2004 if I could have developed my technology.

So, Red has to depend on costs of that technology being high, delays, initial developer advantage (the new Kodak) and branding, to present well sorted out technology (5 years+ advantage) quality from a brand people want to buy from (long term advantage). Meanwhile 2D companies struggle as new workflows using this processing technology is more trivial to handle the multi angle 3D computational technology (people can more readily afford desktop computing using it, even in limited proessing sections in the processor). The future Is to line up product against this. Starting development early. Red maybe aiming to muscle out other competitors like Arii and survive against Sony who are working on holographic cameras, which are likely more intensive in processing than the multi angle technology. So, there is a future for Sony, Red and somebody else.


The original Pocket, or really any BMD camera, are not stills cameras. Never have been, and the Pocket4k is the first that I'm aware of that has a stills button. Why would you buy a cinema camera for stills if it isn't designed for it?

How many people bought the Pocket despite 4k? Well, it was used in multiple major films as a crash cam, including Avengers: Age of Ultron. 1080p didn't stop them from using it. And have you seen the Cinemark in-theater commercials for their "unicorn" projectors? One of the big selling points: 4k. Many theaters still project in 2k. It's streaming services (YouTube, Netflix, Amazon Prime, for example) that are mainly supporting 4k - broadcast TV is still mainly 1080i tops, not even 1080p (there are, of course, exceptions).

3D at home was NAB 2013 or 2014 - how well did that work out? Yes, 3D theater showings will continue, but even those are seemingly becoming less frequent, not more frequent - the cost of post-conversion makes it unnecessary, and unless you're James Cameron or Peter Jackson, shooting with a true 3D rig isn't really feasible (my observation).

Are we going to see major feature films shot on the Pocket4k? No, probably not. As a crash cam in major features? Likely yes. Indies? Sure - I'm planning on doing it, at least. Corporate gigs? Absolutely. Commercials? Depends on budget, but probably yes (the winner of a Doritos Crash the Superbowl commercial [cardboard time machine] was shot on a BMCC a few years ago).


Oh great wrong negative comments. Maybe because your grand parents watched a QVGA Cathode Ray Tube TV, that's all we need too, at 17 inches+. How many people objected to any screen bigger 32 inches. 80 cm rather than 80 inches. I've got room here for over 120 inch screen, looking forward to it, not FullHD on it. The past is not a good indication of technological future until technology taps out. So while Panavision warns to be prepared for 16k and 32k, 8k is good for normal use, for hopefully all human audience members.

3D was done wrong. It was turned up with the security encryption on digital projectors, they got cinemas to pay massive prices to get both on new projectors. The cinemas, merely passed on the costs, rather than realise that their declining industry could use it at standard price to attract more people. But, even at normal price, I'd prefer auto stereoscopic. There are great strides in auto 3D coming. That is where it would be good. I don't need to, but prefer to watch everything in auto 3D, but as is, I watch the stuff that gets the advantage from 3D.

Niw, production costs. You can have single lens, normal setup 3D, with the 3D array cameras, it is even simpler. As far as the other fanciful things you mentioned, you don't need to produce a 3D film. You can produce flat broke 3D films if you know what you are doing (single lens systems don't need the multiple lens alignment and arrays do it computational photographically). The new NVIDIA GPU architecture should have enough for computational photography and ray tracing real time, but magnitudes less than my architecture. However, I know a guy that has a world leading new 3D conversion and 3D rotoscoping. He hasn't told much prior to release, but I gather it has to do with fill 3D modelling into the scene aswell. Still magnitudes less. His company has been working in the industry for a while, and doing what I wanted to do over two decades ago.

Now come on. We are talking about many features to make a still camera being virtually free (software features) and it has a stills button. Now, my box brownies don't even have the still features of a a BM camera. A lot of stuff is unprofessional window dressing on cameras, totally and completely absent in film cameras. So, if I say I hope it's a foray into the still camera market (initial) in order to get numbers up and costing down, that's entirely reasonable. I would expect much till next model, or another year or two of firmware upgrades. If they want to.

I thought Ultron used a micro not a pocket for that action scene.

Not going to be used to film a major film, yeah, like using old medium format Panavision cameras to film Blair Witch? If you film something with it, and it turns out big, then it was used to film a major film, as simple as that. Somebody may well do it eventually. But it raises the question, you could say the pocket4k is not really a cinema camera as well as not a still camera, as it is a different shape, lack this or that?

Those who live in the technological past fail to see the technological future. So give up this fantasy of how good it all is done the wrong way.


Have a good day.
Offline

michaeldhead

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 2:16 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:
Oh great wrong negative comments. Maybe because your grand parents watched a QVGA Cathode Ray Tube TV, that's all we need too, at 17 inches+. How many people objected to any screen bigger 32 inches. 80 cm rather than 80 inches. I've got room here for over 120 inch screen, looking forward to it, not FullHD on it. The past is not a good indication of technological future until technology taps out. So while Panavision warns to be prepared for 16k and 32k, 8k is good for normal use, for hopefully all human audience members.

3D was done wrong. It was turned up with the security encryption on digital projectors, they got cinemas to pay massive prices to get both on new projectors. The cinemas, merely passed on the costs, rather than realise that their declining industry could use it at standard price to attract more people. But, even at normal price, I'd prefer auto stereoscopic. There are great strides in auto 3D coming. That is where it would be good. I don't need to, but prefer to watch everything in auto 3D, but as is, I watch the stuff that gets the advantage from 3D.

Niw, production costs. You can have single lens, normal setup 3D, with the 3D array cameras, it is even simpler. As far as the other fanciful things you mentioned, you don't need to produce a 3D film. You can produce flat broke 3D films if you know what you are doing (single lens systems don't need the multiple lens alignment and arrays do it computational photographically). The new NVIDIA GPU architecture should have enough for computational photography and ray tracing real time, but magnitudes less than my architecture. However, I know a guy that has a world leading new 3D conversion and 3D rotoscoping. He hasn't told much prior to release, but I gather it has to do with fill 3D modelling into the scene aswell. Still magnitudes less. His company has been working in the industry for a while, and doing what I wanted to do over two decades ago.

Now come on. We are talking about many features to make a still camera being virtually free (software features) and it has a stills button. Now, my box brownies don't even have the still features of a a BM camera. A lot of stuff is unprofessional window dressing on cameras, totally and completely absent in film cameras. So, if I say I hope it's a foray into the still camera market (initial) in order to get numbers up and costing down, that's entirely reasonable. I would expect much till next model, or another year or two of firmware upgrades. If they want to.

I thought Ultron used a micro not a pocket for that action scene.

Not going to be used to film a major film, yeah, like using old medium format Panavision cameras to film Blair Witch? If you film something with it, and it turns out big, then it was used to film a major film, as simple as that. Somebody may well do it eventually. But it raises the question, you could say the pocket4k is not really a cinema camera as well as not a still camera, as it is a different shape, lack this or that?

Those who live in the technological past fail to see the technological future. So give up this fantasy of how good it all is done the wrong way.


Have a good day.


I'm not sure where you think I said anything about old tube televisions - I didn't. I did point out that cable and broadcast tv is still mainly 1080i (with exceptions), which is a factually true statement. Of course I want technology to advance - but the only platforms that are pushing 4k delivery are, as I said, Netflix and other VOD services. It is also factually true that a majority of theaters in the US still project at 2k. That is simply a fact, regardless of how you feel about it.

It is my understanding that Japan is gearing up for 8k capture and delivery of the Olympics - but here in the US if you watch it on a network station, you'll still probably be watching a 1080i version, even on your 4k home tv. Maybe there will be a 4k stream available - I hope so.

Wayne Steven wrote:"3D was done wrong."


In the words of the Dude, "yeah, well, you know, that 's just like, your opinion, man." 3D films are still being produced, but the numbers seem to be decreasing, not increasing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_3 ... 05_onwards)). Theaters ARE using 3D as a means to attract audiences, since home 3D did not work out, and demonstrated by the lack of 3D content for home consumption after the 3D NAB of 2012 or 2013 (I think). I typically like watching a film in 3D in the theater, but sometimes the post conversion is so bad that it distracts from a good film (Captain America: Winter Soldier had some distracting post-conversion, in my opinion, and it's still my favorite Marvel film).

Your friend on 3D conversion. Good. I wish him the best. But if it didn't work two decades ago, then in my opinion I don't see it working out now, since successful technology tends to pick the winning horse, but maybe I'm wrong - I don't know what technology you're talking about.

If anything, I think the Lytro Cinema system will be the next huge advancement in 3D and visual effects, but that's still a ways out before becoming viable on a large-scale production.

Wayne Steven wrote:"We are talking about many features to make a still camera being virtually free (software features) and it has a stills button'"


Is that why so many people were complaining about the lack of IBIS, quick autofocus, etc? Here: This is a good read: https://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/20 ... snt-mater/ It's not a stills camera. It's not a hybrid camera. It's a cinema camera that happens to be able to take stills, and the stills are in CDNG format.

It was Age of Ultraon, along with films like Jason Borne (https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/blackmag ... ema-camera). I also know that David Sandberg, the director of Lights Out, shot pickup shots for the film on his personal Pocket cam - you can find the BTS on that on his YouTube channel.

You might have this notion that I'm saying something about "living in the past", but that's a notion that you created in your mind. I'm just honest with myself that the future of 4k and beyond delivery isn't broadcast tv (unless something major changes), but is through streaming delivery.

Hey, what studios are about to start their own streaming services? Disney, Warner Brothers, STEAM....
Michael D Head
www.michaeldhead.com
writer/director/DP
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1120
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 3:11 pm

You didn't really get the eloquence of the contrast about being stuck in the past versus the reality of what can be done better, or the similarities with those stuck on previous generations of technology (Cathode Ray Tubes). Reiterating dealt with statements doesn't change the end result of the equation. The equation is much bigger than you equate. Incase you are a person that equates reality to what you have experienced, as is common in forums these years, it is about the broad range of experiences of most of the audiences, and most of the technology to come. Forward planning involves this. Failure to make content that sells past 2k, is failure in forward planning on sales/views. Once we get to the biggest screens 2k maybe acceptable to a lot of people, but murky to younger viewers. 4k is the happy zone of acceptability at large sizes I feel, 8k for more polish in delivery. However a 180 degree filming window without digital zoom is 24k (I did testing) digital zoom you can basically just keep timesing the resolution. An article I still the other day was saying that single journalists need 360 degree camera at, at least 8k just to get an acceptable sub resolution in the delivery window cut out of the view in post. This is the real world stuff to look at in making equipment for future markets. I've advocated something similar in the past for journalism, but I know unless you use multiple cameras it can be a bit dodgy to get right, I can see it in my head right now, simulated out. But you can get some result. Just saw the latest Spike Lee film, and he was right. One of his first films, he go a whole heap of cheap Mini DV camcorders and stuck them around sets, to get a variety of Angie's to choose from, it's rather like After Earth, and the Fairchild video from game system, they saw what others didn't. Future journalism, and various jobs, might require many cameras recording 3D in a way that can be used volumetricaly. A 32k workflow might seem inadequate compared to this. Red's current announcements maybe inadequate, as far as I know they didn't seem to envision this, that they didn't ask a real master of the art, what is possible, what are the best solutions. However, a savy company like BM could supply an array of $200 cameras to be used or setup for the type of job on hand. The Red cameras being a lot more expensive couldn't really compete. I'm sure, as some read this, they will, as they have many times before, say, that's a idea, and try it, and not rely get it without asking the one who figured it out, and waste mire of tens+ millions not hiring them, plus profit.

People at that level have earned a right to object to the future, but are more likely contribute something positive to advancing things instead.
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1120
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 3:35 pm

Wow, I would say it is just your opinion based on nothing upcoming. I would say mine is based on actual foresight and skill. You also seem to have backtracked a bit on your past stance just to have an opinion against me, and brought out lytro to a 3D gun fight. I'm not totally against lytro, but Red was right about the number of pixels needed being a lot (plus an array of small sensors instead, like they are planning, is a lot cheaper).

Whatever was out done wrong 20 years ago is logically irrelevant to what's coming up. The guy has picked a winning technology, that was the whole point of mentioning it. Technologies do come out because somebody has discovered how to do it better dude Michael.

But going accross to the topic of the convenience factor people talk about with 3D, a good auto 3D display solve that. In the end, eventually stereo 3D should cost little more to film and display. But volumetric 3D is another thing others are advancing on the display side before I could. I was once designing a volumetric portable game system you could line up as many people that you could fit directly around it, and each one would see their own unique angle of view (took a while to work through the issues on that one, and not do crash hot compared to what others are trying these days), but not a technology suitable for cinema. My auto 3D stereoscopic cinema designs are good though. Stereoscopic makes things easier. Just today I noticed acrobatic drones, and immediately thought up a new drone propulsion technology.
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1120
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 3:42 pm

Michael, as I explained a still canera is as simple as no auto focus, no IBIS. Your argument effectively disqualifies most still cameras of the film age as not still cameras.

Michael, the present is the past. You design technological improvements to market into the future. Whatever has been done that is inadequate, when it wears out, could be replaced by something that does it better. As displays get bigger, 4k has a better place, and 8k as an enhanced product. Frankly, if it wasn't for the usefulness in stills, post framing, zoom, and demosiacing down to 4k, etc, I would have little time for 8k myself. Sure, done people will see and enjoy it, but I know that 4k is close enough. However, companies need something to sell, and 8k is only and initial step into super resolutions, like with lytro. I'm actively trying to look into and figure out suitable ways not requiring the extra pixels to do 3D, even scrapping the lens systems we now use, but it's difficult to get the quality. I'm prepared to shoot with and design for, less than ideal quality myself, but you can only go so far before it gets too much of a compromise, stupidly so. I've planned for over a decade to use computational photography to get rid of various issues cheaply, leading to a number of advantages and lower price, but not much need for that now that everything has gotten better. However, with a good product (production) 80% I think is good enough. I am talking about the bottom end.

Good night.
Offline

michaeldhead

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 3:59 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:You didn't really get the eloquence of the contrast about being stuck in the past versus the reality of what can be done better, or the similarities with those stuck on previous generations of technology (Cathode Ray Tubes).


Eloquence would actually be nice, since you're kind of all over the place, from "content that sells past 2k" to 180 degree filming, to 360 video for journalists, to Spike Lee's new film? I can't find your train of thought, but I'll try my best.

"Biggest screen past 2k...murky to young viewers".

Well, most young viewers (18 and below) are most regularly watching content on computers, tablets, and phones. Even with retina displays, 2k works, and this is coming from someone (me) that just shot 1080p for the first time in years. I typically shoot 4k, and 4k is just now becoming common for delivery - which is my concern. Sure, we could all capture at 8K, but who is going to watch it in 8k? Don't be so focused on the future that the here and now (and actual trends in delivery) that practicality goes by the wayside.

"180 degree filming....24k digital zoom..."

...and what 24k, 180 degree cameras are out there? I'll throw in the 360 camera for journalists - who cares? I actually shoot quite a bit of 360 video at my work, and do you know what trend I find when I look at the hotspot analytics? People are only looking at one thing at a time, and they aren't looking at a blank wall in the video when the action is happening in one location. Heck, when the action is happening in two parts of the 360 video, it is just confusing for the audience since they miss things happening on the other side of the screen.

My emphasis is on narrative work, and in terms of narrative work 360 just...doesn't work. Adorama did a short film that they shot both traditionally and in 360, and despite them filling in the background of the 360 video with...stuff, in my opinion the traditionally shot video is just better. The story and the actors are the exact same, but it is much more compelling and interesting to watch. Taking it back to journalists, I know I would prefer a good videographer taking news footage than having a reporter standing in front of a 360 video camera commenting on a scene, but I'm guessing that's not what you're actually talking about.

I guess that you are talking about shooting a scene in 360 (or 180) and in post picking your view. I've done that, too, with footage shot in 360 both on a GoPro Omni rig and the Fusion. Not only is that extremely inefficient in terms of storage (how much data is wasted on footage you're not going to use?), but all the digital zoom in the world isn't going to improve your shot once you're set up.

If that was effect for journalism, it would be a a common practice.

"Spike Lee...Mini DV camcorders and stuck them around sets..."

Ok....can you give a source for that? Because the making of Do The Right Thing doesn't seem to support that:
But maybe that's not what you're talking about - I'd like to see your source for that information. I'm curious why you are citing things like After Earth (the movie?) and the Fairchild video game system...which didn't last long. You can argue about technology differences, but in the end the market didn't support them - it's like talking about betamax and HD-DVDs - you might feel like the technology of one was better, but your betamax player doesn't help when there's nothing being produced for it.

Maybe you're right. Maybe 360 video is the wave of the future, and the future will look more like Ready Player One than Total Recall (the original). I see 360 video gaming becoming much more common, but people at home like to be able to watch tv/movies while doing something else - and you can't multitask with a VR headset on.

I, for one, think that augmented reality through phones and head's up displays is more likely in everyday life. But for narrative content delivery, right now a 4k pipeline is the most common.

Since this thread is supposed to be about the next camera, I'll end on this: There's a reason that the Sony VENICE is a 6k camera and not an 8k or 12k camera - better pixels, not more pixels, are what matters. And didn't James Cameron just announce that the Avatar sequels will be shot on the Sony VENICE, not on REDs? https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behin ... as-1116600

I'd like a BMD full-frame 6k camera - I think that would be a good step, but who knows what BMD is already working on for the future.
Last edited by michaeldhead on Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michael D Head
www.michaeldhead.com
writer/director/DP
Offline

michaeldhead

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 4:12 pm

...and you type two other responses while I'm typing...

And even with your two extra responses, I've addressed most of what you brought up in your extra responses.

You keep implying that I'm stuck in the past and making statements that I didn't make. For example, "...effectively disqualify most still cameras of the film age...".

Since I'm not talking about the film age, that statement is erroneous and irrelevant. If you missed it, I was talking about the Pocket 4K and your comparison to a DSLR - which is also erroneous and irrelevant. It's not a DSLR, it's not designed to be a DSLR.

Good luck with whatever you design for the future. I hope you do well. I'm going to be working on my projects that audiences will see this week.
Michael D Head
www.michaeldhead.com
writer/director/DP
Offline

Denny Smith

  • Posts: 9085
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:19 pm
  • Location: USA, Northern Calif.

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 6:37 pm

Lists see, first a DSLR has a mirror box, the PC4K does not, next their are no more MFT DSLRs (the FT cameras were discontinued years ago), the PC4K does not have auto tracking AF, many DS!Rs do today, and a DSLR p’s main purpose is to shoot still photos. The PC4Ck, while it can do a Raw single frame recording, it is not designed as a still photo camera, no JPEG files, no high shutter speeds, etc.

What the PC4K is, is an excellent little Video/Cine Camera, any comparison to a DSLR or Mirrorless photo Camera, is comparing apples to oranges. The PC4K shoots 14/12-bit, 4.4.4/4.2.2 Raw and ProRes video internally, has a XLR mic input and pro type power connection. It also has a larger, sharper and higher resolution lcd screen in the rear of the camera, best yet in a BM Camera according to Mark Wyatt, who has shot with one out of doors.
Cheers
Last edited by Denny Smith on Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Denny Smith
SHA Productions
Offline

michaeldhead

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostTue Aug 28, 2018 9:03 pm

Exactly.
Michael D Head
www.michaeldhead.com
writer/director/DP
Offline

Wayne Steven

  • Posts: 1120
  • Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:58 am

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 3:29 am

Exactly not. Maybe you guys missed the bit where I twice described many older cameras not having those features, still being stills cameras. The definition of a still camera being that it takes stills. The pocket 4k is perhaps more equipped than many of those film cameras. You have confused the definition of still camera with your opinion of a 'good' stills camera. But are we so lazy these days as to regard the definition of a still camera as needing auto focus rather than actually focusing ourselves? So, yes, the pocket can be used as a still camera, and outdoes a number of older still film cameras (and that Apple digital camera I used). I've even got an old digital still camera without a screen that does better hdr than the pocket 4k (maybe any camera).

You guys are confused, no need to blame the messenger. Though I admit, writing after 12 at night to answer something long confusion doesn't particularly make for the most concise writing. At the moment I'm having a lot of trouble writing, so it's going be split again over a longer period. Sorry.

But what you did read was a concise shot of a number of different aspects and considerations about the issue. That is real life. You have confused yourself into believing they are not branching linearities (real sense). I know a guy who is listening to all these simplistic politically racially motivated right wing conspiracies. In speaking about a statement of legislation, or how things should be handled, he complains it's too complex, everything has caveats (in order to make things fair and cover all bases). He wants some simplistic statement that will lead to injustice and inadequacies, complications and expense. I told him that was real life, things are complex to get right. I pointed at a tree trunk and basically told him, it you was one subject but you see the branches coming off of it are the different things to be considered, it's complex. Most people can't manage that, it's up to others to figure out, and the hearer to this no about their report. To resist analysing the report is to injure everybody. But that is what society has come down to. So, read the different aspects and dint confuse them.

Now, I dont want to spend hours writing replies again. But I did notice you talked about 360 in a totally different way to hiwni stated it, confusing the issue with something that doesn't really work. I'm sorry not a way to win an argument. I only talked about capture and latter picking out the scene windows from the 360 degree capture to show, not showing 360 degree footage instead. I talked about single handed journalists using it, and in filming using wider angle views, and multiple cameras, to simulate different camera movements and positioning. That we are talking about 8k or more resolutions. More aspects.

When I had stated that 8k video delivery itself is an added extra and 4k is enough, you have confused that too.

Well got to get going. Too many distractions here at the moment and I'm forgetting things.

Re-edit:

Ok. I took a look further dusn that long post where you were telling me about what I definitely didn't say, and it seems you eventually got it as a guess?? The point about journalism is budget constraints (from low profit) and single journalists having to do reporting and filming, where it has been suggested 360 degree 8k+ rigs allow you to pick out windows out of the footage to play afterwards. Yes, low budget lower quality as you said, rather than no footage and less journalism which justifies it. So, yes, another use and reason for 8k cameras.

Now your objection against the 8k 360 degree footage is not justified, simply because you only have to save the delivered window out of the surround footage (say 2k or 4k), storage is becoming cheaper and something like the redray codec can do quality 4k in under 10 megabits pets second . So we know that there is a lot of room in compression advances to come.

About living in the present. That is too simple. The present is over the entire pofitable life time of your footage. If it's really good that can be the entire copyright period (what is it now, 150 years in the US). So, the present includes the future, and what has already happened is the past. So, yes, those 2k projectors might get replaced by 4k or 8k ones, people will be watching on really large 4k-8k tv's where 2k will look less desirable to those with good eyesight. Looking at a mobile phone screen might be a market, but watching on a big screen is a market and better experience. Should we drop the resolution of productions to VGA or 720p to suite mobile usage and then watch that on big screens then? So, it doesn't matter what some do on mobile if you want to sell into a bigger screen market.

However, in the future, even without a big screen people could still watch 8k using a glasses like headset, even with vision beamed into your eyes from a projector (I probably shouldn't tell you that one) or a contact lens device with far more people able to see 8k. So, in a few years...

On 360 again. Frankly, anybody shooting general fictional stuff on VR 360, that is not about 360, is asking for trouble and a confusing themselves. What you described is obvious. I still think 360 can be used in fiction, but I favour more room based display.
Offline

michaeldhead

  • Posts: 234
  • Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:41 pm

Re: What do you think Blackmagic's next camera will be?

PostWed Aug 29, 2018 2:08 pm

Wayne Steven wrote:Maybe you guys missed the bit where I twice described many older cameras not having those features, still being stills cameras.


*ahem*

michaeldhead wrote:Since I'm not talking about the film age, that statement is erroneous and irrelevant. If you missed it, I was talking about the Pocket 4K and your comparison to a DSLR - which is also erroneous and irrelevant. It's not a DSLR, it's not designed to be a DSLR.


The Pocket is not a 5d mk ii, a GH5, an A7s, etc, which are DIGITAL stills cameras that happen to take video. The Pocket is a cinema camera that can grab single frames and save them in a CDNG format.

You didn't talk about 8k 360 video for journalists - you said 24k 360 video, and I had to guess because you didn't explain yourself; and I guessed correctly. And if 360 video for journalists was effective or time efficient, it would be done. It's not being done because it's not effective or time efficient (I speak as someone who has done exactly what you're describing with 360 video).

And now you're talking about right wing conspiracies...ok.

I think 180 VR could be effective for narrative, but 360 for narrative is not.

And good luck shining a projector into people's faces. I'm sure that will go over well.
Michael D Head
www.michaeldhead.com
writer/director/DP
Previous

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Jack Fairley, Rustam Babayev, Vanessa Rolfe, zachnfine and 11 guests