seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

The place for questions about shooting with Blackmagic Cameras.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 4:47 am

Update: despite my assumptions in my last post in this thread my BMC's MIC-input seems to be defect, I'll open a support-ticket therefore.

I went to a shop today to test the Rode Video Mic Pro - even with its 20dB-boost on and a fresh battery there was no better result to achieve. And people have reported on forums that you can use the recorded sound with that mic - but no matter which levels I set inside camera, the recorded sound stays around -65 dB, when boostet Noise is horrible.


Dear all,

although I read several threads on audio here I still don't get if I'm wrong somewhere or it is just the way it is with the BMC's audio department. I usually record sound on an extra device but use the camera's internal audio for syncing and (with the 7D) could also use it for background/atmo when a proper NR was applied.

But I can't achieve that with the BMC: the max. level peaks I get are -36db (rms nmight be around -60db), when I normalize the audio to 60 % there is a hell of a noise in there, so no matter which levels I have chosen in camera, which input chosen it doesn't get better. As I'm on holiday I only have a Rode NTG-2 and a lavalier with me, both get me the same results. And as I'm reading that people with the Rode Stere Video Mic plugged directly into the BMC get decent results for atmo, I wonder if the output of the NTG2 and my avalier are just too low or if my balanced adapter is the wrong one or if I'm doing something wrong.

Thanks for any help!
Attachments
DSC09013.JPG
DSC09013.JPG (64.37 KiB) Viewed 5044 times
Last edited by Thomas Schumacher on Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

DGFilms

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:07 am

Re: max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 5:03 am

If you are using the NTG2 you still need phantom power, that little AA battery will not do, try a http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4 ... ingle.html

it will give the NTG2 the power it needs.
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 5:13 am

Thanks as lot, that seems to be a small, cheap solution.

But I wonder how that guy got these results without a pre-amp on his NTG-2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... QQk8Nr6RVQ

have asked him and wait for reply.
Last edited by Thomas Schumacher on Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

DGFilms

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:07 am

Re: max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 5:37 am

Here is another thread you may want to read
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6555#p41439
Offline
User avatar

Chris Hocking

  • Posts: 659
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:23 am
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 5:41 am

DGFilms wrote:If you are using the NTG2 you still need phantom power, that little AA battery will not do


Why not? You should be able to power the NTG2 fine with just the AA batteries, no?

If I plug my Sennheiser ME66/K6 directly into the camera directly I don't have any issues, so I'd imagine the NTG2 would be exactly the same?

Make sure you're running the latest camera firmware, and try another XLR cable if you're still having issues.
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 11:39 am

Thanks for tge link, DGFilms!

Chris Hocking wrote:
DGFilms wrote:If you are using the NTG2 you still need phantom power, that little AA battery will not do


Why not? You should be able to power the NTG2 fine with just the AA batteries, no?

If I plug my Sennheiser ME66/K6 directly into the camera directly I don't have any issues, so I'd imagine the NTG2 would be exactly the same?

Make sure you're running the latest camera firmware, and try another XLR cable if you're still having issues.


I do not hope there is someting wrong with my BMC.... I tried with different firmwares, always the same. Maybe I go to a shop and plug the Rode Stere Video Mic in and see what happens with that. Or try another cable there, as I don't have another one with me here on holidays.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 11:42 am

Ok, after reading that thread DGFilms has linked me to I suppose everything is fine with my bMC and it's just the reportedly weak output of the NG2.

Thanks gentlemen!
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

Soeren Mueller

  • Posts: 595
  • Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:21 pm
  • Location: Düsseldorf, Germany

Re: SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 12:40 pm

But it seems you're getting much worse results than the guy in the Youtube video, right? Didn't yet have the time to really try my NTG2 with the BMC.

Btw did anybody here have the chance to directly compare the NTG2 with the NTG3, is it much better?

Had a Sennheiser MKH 416 years back which I unfortunately sold bohoo :((
Offline

Jeggintonfilms

  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:59 pm

Re: SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat Apr 27, 2013 2:44 pm

In my experience when I owned the Rode NTG-2, recording levels came out extremely low when used with the Zoom H4n recorder.

This is because the NTG-2 has a fairly weak output.

I decided to sell it and bought a Sennheiser ME66/k6 instead which works perfectly.

So this may be why you're having trouble ...
Filmmaker & Camera-operator
www.jontyegginton.com
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSun Apr 28, 2013 11:50 am

Thanks guys.

Sören, you're right. I get considerablyworse results than the guy in the youtube-video with probbaly the same set-up. I'm going to a shop tomorrow to try the Rode Video Mic Pro with its 25db boost, if that does yield the same result then my BMC is defect. Hopefully not.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

Retconaddict

  • Posts: 3
  • Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:58 pm

Re: SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSun Apr 28, 2013 4:25 pm

Should add here - I have the Rode NTG-2 and I use it with the Edirol R-09HR, and i get very weak results from it too. So, you should be alright with your camera. Could you let me know how the videomic fares?


http://www.youtube.com/user/MrLesliedyke
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 2:13 am

Thanks Retconaddict,

good to know. I'll report back when I did the test.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 8:57 am

Retconaddict wrote:Should add here - I have the Rode NTG-2 and I use it with the Edirol R-09HR, and i get very weak results from it too. So, you should be alright with your camera. Could you let me know how the videomic fares?


http://www.youtube.com/user/MrLesliedyke


I went to a shop today to test the Rode Video Mic Pro - even with its 20dB-boost on and a fresh battery there was no better result to achieve. And people have reported on forums that you can use the recorded sound with that mic - but no matter which levels I set inside camera, the recorded sound stays around -65 dB, when boostet Noise is horrible.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Chris Hocking

  • Posts: 659
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:23 am
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 9:23 am

Unfortunately I don't have the camera on me, but when I'm back in the office I'll do some tests comparing microphones connected directly to the camera versus using a pre-amp/mixer.
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 10:25 am

Chris,

this would be very much appreciated! Thank you!

I'm thinking of buying a JuicedLink Riggy instead of sending the camera back, but who knows if this would work with my individual BMC as I have nothing to test it lying around at my friends' house here.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Tom

  • Posts: 1626
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:08 am
  • Location: Manchester, UK

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 12:37 pm

I have used the Rode Video Mic Pro direct to camera and even with 0 mic gain you can hear sound. With +20 turned on it is plenty loud. This is all without a pre-amp.

These are the cables I am using:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-Stereo-6- ... o+balanced

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PC-Arena-Couple ... mm+coupler


I suspect its a cable issue maybe?
Tom Majerski
http://tetragrade.com/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5157752/
Offline
User avatar

Chris Hocking

  • Posts: 659
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:23 am
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 1:16 pm

Tom wrote:I suspect its a cable issue maybe?


I'm with Tom on this one.

What cables did you use to connect the Rode Video Mic Pro into your camera?

Did you try using a different XLR cable to connect your Rode NTG-2 directly to the camera?

I'd say there's more of a chance that you have a cable mismatch than the BMC itself being faulty.

What I'd suggest is making sure you have the latest 1.3 firmware, set the input to 100% Line Level, then send a Line Level signal into the camera - and see where it lines up in UltraScope.
Offline

DanAllen

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 1:25 pm

I have the same problem with the Rode Video Mic Pro.

Thanks to Tom's post, its obvious as to whats happening here. The Rode mic is outputting stereo and with that 1/4 TRS adapter you have the two channels are probably phase canceling each other out. Since Tom's setup splits the channels, BMCC can register the channels independently.

Thanks Tom, I'm going to fix this issue. :D
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon Apr 29, 2013 3:26 pm

Tom wrote:I have used the Rode Video Mic Pro direct to camera and even with 0 mic gain you can hear sound. With +20 turned on it is plenty loud. This is all without a pre-amp.

These are the cables I am using:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-Stereo-6- ... o+balanced

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PC-Arena-Couple ... mm+coupler


I suspect its a cable issue maybe?


Thanks Tom,

the guys at the shop today suspected this as well but couldn't find a splitter (we're in Perth...), so this somehow got out of my sight again due to the frustration so far. Gonna give it another try tomorrow and report back.

DanAllen wrote:I have the same problem with the Rode Video Mic Pro.

Thanks to Tom's post, its obvious as to whats happening here. The Rode mic is outputting stereo and with that 1/4 TRS adapter you have the two channels are probably phase canceling each other out. Since Tom's setup splits the channels, BMCC can register the channels independently.

Thanks Tom, I'm going to fix this issue. :D


I'm no tech guy but wouldn't it mean if they channels are cancelling each other out that there is no sound audible at all? As this is what Rode says about it: outputting the mono signal to both left and right channels.


Chris Hocking wrote:
Did you try using a different XLR cable to connect your Rode NTG-2 directly to the camera?

I'd say there's more of a chance that you have a cable mismatch than the BMC itself being faulty.

What I'd suggest is making sure you have the latest 1.3 firmware, set the input to 100% Line Level, then send a Line Level signal into the camera - and see where it lines up in UltraScope.


I tried another XLR-cable on the NTG2 - nothing changed, tried firmwares 1.21 and 1.3 - nothing changed.
I'll have to try the line input still, as I'm on holiday right now and don't have any extra cables with me.
But before I spent 200 on a Rode Video Mic Pro I might spend 300 on a Juicedlink Riggy and be able to get proper audio with all my mics into the BMC then.


Thank you all, much appreciated!
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 4:09 am

Now I've tested the LINE IN where I get a much louder signal but with a quite unsatisfying soundquality - it sounds quite thin, but that might be due to the way I did the test:

headphone out of the laptop to line in of SONY PCM D50, from the SONY the file was played back via line out into the LINE IN of the BMC.

I know about the weak frequency response on the low end (which is even lower on the MIC IN),
but did this test with firmware 1.21 where the frequency response on the low end on the LINE IN should not be as bad as on firmware 1.3.

As I'm gonna buy a juicedlink pre-amp I won't be able to check those split-cable with the Rode Video Mic Pro (which I don't own and only tried in a shop), but I'm still wondering how that guy on the BMCuser-forum got these good results with his Rode NTG2 plugged directly into the BMC (he hasn't responded yet). I can't find any hints on tech specs so that there might be a similiar problem as on the Rode Video Mic Pro with cables and its way of putting its signal out.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks a lot, guys!
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

DGFilms

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:07 am

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 6:01 am

Did you check the HPF on the NTG2? "switchable high pass filter"
Just wondering if this is causing the issue?
http://wpc.660d.edgecastcdn.net/80660D/ ... manual.pdf
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 8:25 am

Thanks DGFilms,

but the thin sound was when I recorded some music using the LINE IN on the BMC via a Sony PCM D50
not with the NTG2. And the activated filter should let me record less low end rumbles but not less overall audio-gain. But as we're dealing with black magic here I'll have another go with the NTG2 and its filter switched off :-)

EDIT: actually the filter was switched off as I saw when I removed the deadcat.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

DGFilms

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:07 am

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 8:37 am

Just trying to eliminate any and all possibilities, This will only get you the answer we are all curious to know, Is it the Mic, or a Bad Mic, or The Camera, or...
Who knows? but eliminating any and all possibilities will resolve this sooner or later. 8-)
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 8:45 am

Holy Moly.

What happened? Now I plugged in the NTG-2 and whatever levels I use on the BMC's MIC IN I get useable results with no noise-storm after all when normalized. And I did all the same things than before, except two things:

the power-connector was plugged in and it was AFTER I had tried the LINE IN on the BMC. If this would be some kind of mechanical device like a vacuum cleaner I'd say I had to blow the pipe free of rubbish with that initial LINE IN recording...

I'm still in firmware 1.21, so there was no change made to the camera after I had experienced my described failures.

EDIT: just did another test with audio levels set to 95 % and recorded with and without the power connector plugged in, which did make no difference. Audio is usable by all means. I don't know what's going on here and how long this newborn functionality will last.
While wading thru' my early tests with the camera I found one rendered clip where I was talking (aperture and ISO settings) to the camera and it was quite a good recording as well. All the other clips later were as described in my failure-scenarios above. And I haven't done anything different inbetween as well - I don't have the BMC-clip anymore as I'm running short of HD-space here on holiday.

I will keep testing and keep you posted.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 9:07 am

DGFilms wrote:Just trying to eliminate any and all possibilities, This will only get you the answer we are all curious to know, Is it the Mic, or a Bad Mic, or The Camera, or...
Who knows? but eliminating any and all possibilities will resolve this sooner or later. 8-)


You're right with that procedere. The funny things is I even replaced the battery inside the NTG2 already two days ago, so it#s not even a too low powered mics fault. And I didn't change the cable either.

I just hope it stays the way it is now.

If anyone has an explanation for that behaviour besides black magic being involved or human failure I'll be happy. Human failure is the most common thing when something isn't working, at least on my side but this time I think i can eliminate this as my test set-ups were the same yesterday and today. As said, the only difference between the two days and results was I recorded something via LINE today.

And I'll try that now again to see if the quality on that stays the same.
EDIT: the level and thin sound of the LINE IN stayed the same. It's strange as I expected the two ways of recordings behaving vice-versa concerning the frequency response on the low end, but as I just recorded kids screaming in the garden and my not very low voice it might be all as expected here.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

DGFilms

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:07 am

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 9:40 am

gmf wrote:
DGFilms wrote:Just trying to eliminate any and all possibilities, This will only get you the answer we are all curious to know, Is it the Mic, or a Bad Mic, or The Camera, or...
Who knows? but eliminating any and all possibilities will resolve this sooner or later. 8-)


You're right with that procedere. The funny things is I even replaced the battery inside the NTG2 already two days ago, so it#s not even a too low powered mics fault. And I didn't change the cable either.

I just hope it stays the way it is now.

If anyone has an explanation for that behaviour besides black magic being involved or human failure I'll be happy. Human failure is the most common thing when something isn't working, at least on my side but this time I think i can eliminate this as my test set-ups were the same yesterday and today. As said, the only difference between the two days and results was I recorded something via LINE today.

And I'll try that now again to see if the quality on that stays the same.
EDIT: the level and thin sound of the LINE IN stayed the same. It's strange as I expected the two ways of recordings behaving vice-versa concerning the frequency response on the low end, but as I just recorded kids screaming in the garden and my not very low voice it might be all as expected here.


Don't freakout you could simply have a faulty NTG2, The one thing I have learned over the years
is that Shotgun mics have issues/shorting out, or faulty connections, it's best you have the Mic tested
at any reputable service center, But My guess is it's the Mic.

I'm out, but I wish you the best and I hope you get your Audio under control and
move on with being creative with your camera.

Cheers
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: NOT SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Apr 30, 2013 10:02 am

Thanks DGFilms,

you're right and I haven't even thought about the NTG2 being the badboy here.

Have a nice time!
cheers
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline

DanAllen

  • Posts: 12
  • Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:44 pm

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostWed May 01, 2013 1:34 pm

I was inspired to test my theory, since you shot it down so quickly ;) .

So I built this temporary adapter that just removes one of the stereo channels. Before I tested it, I tired the old method of using the standard 1/4 TRS stereo adapter. The audio was inaudible without shouting into the Rode Mic.

Then I used my adapter and it instantly returned the mic signal to a normal dB. So yes, the stereo channels ARE canceling each other out. Maybe there is some variation in the channels which allows some audio to still be picked up.
IMG_20130501_091725.jpg
IMG_20130501_091725.jpg (66.18 KiB) Viewed 4678 times
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostWed May 01, 2013 2:05 pm

Great Dan,

thanks, so at least Tom's solution for the Rode Video Mic Pro is soldering gun-verified, still wondering what happened inside my NTG2.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostThu May 23, 2013 9:20 am

I just got a Tritonaudio Fethead, which boosts the audio-level considerably, so now with the Rode NTG2 and that Fethead I get useable results for proper atmo-audio on the BMC without the need to carry a Juicedlink or whatever around.

The Fethead is a small phantom powered in-line preamplifier at the size of a thumb, which you just plug into the mic's XLR and there you go.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Peter J. DeCrescenzo

  • Posts: 2282
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:53 am
  • Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostThu May 23, 2013 10:48 am

gmf wrote:I just got a Tritonaudio Fethead, which boosts the audio-level considerably, so now with the Rode NTG2 and that Fethead I get useable results for proper atmo-audio on the BMC without the need to carry a Juicedlink or whatever around.

The Fethead is a small phantom powered in-line preamplifier at the size of a thumb, which you just plug into the mic's XLR and there you go.


The Triton Audio Fethead looks like a neat device. Thanks for the tip.
http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

-
http://www.peterdv.com
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostThu May 23, 2013 6:30 pm

Peter, you're doing the un-do-able: posting a link! Thx.

:-)
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Christian Schmeer

  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:07 pm
  • Location: London, UK

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostFri May 24, 2013 3:05 am

I have a RØDE VideoMic (mono) and have the same issue... I almost can't hear a thing. Meanwhile my old Philips SBCME570 (stereo) microphone works perfectly on the BMCC. :roll:

I was using a stereo 6.35mm to 3.5mm adapter on both microphones, so I ordered a mono one and will see if the RØDE will work in the end.
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
www.christianschmeer.com
www.vimeo.com/christianschmeer
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostFri May 24, 2013 8:53 am

Christian,

if that mono-plug doesn't solve the issue, have a search overhere or at bmcuser as there were some postings and a solution to this particular problem, just can't recall what it was, but I guess you're right with your assumption.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Christian Schmeer

  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:07 pm
  • Location: London, UK

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostFri May 24, 2013 3:03 pm

The 6.35mm to 3.5mm adapter I used initially was a Stereo adapter and there was as good as no audio coming from my RODE VideoMic. As far as I can see, your cable is a Stereo cable.

This is the mono adapter that I bought and have now tested on the RØDE VideoMic - No more problems!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003 ... UTF8&psc=1


Mono:
Image

Stereo:
Image

Look at the black lines in the tip.
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
www.christianschmeer.com
www.vimeo.com/christianschmeer
Offline
User avatar

rick.lang

  • Posts: 11508
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:41 pm
  • Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostFri May 24, 2013 3:22 pm

Christian Schmeer wrote:The 6.35mm to 3.5mm adapter I used initially was a Stereo adapter and there was as good as no audio coming from my RODE VideoMic. As far as I can see, your cable is a Stereo cable.

This is the mono adapter that I bought and have now tested on the RØDE VideoMic - No more problems!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003 ... UTF8&psc=1


Mono:
Image

Stereo:
Image

Look at the black lines in the tip.


Good news that the problem is resolved so inexpensively with the correct adapter! Do you plug that mono into the channel 1 (right) audio? Are you putting anything in the channel 2 (left) audio input on the BMCC?

Rick Lang
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Rick Lang
Offline
User avatar

Christian Schmeer

  • Posts: 904
  • Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:07 pm
  • Location: London, UK

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSat May 25, 2013 1:11 am

rick.lang wrote:Good news that the problem is resolved so inexpensively with the correct adapter! Do you plug that mono into the channel 1 (right) audio? Are you putting anything in the channel 2 (left) audio input on the BMCC?


Yes, that's correct. I plug the mono microphone with the mono adapter into the channel 1 audio port and in the BMCC's audio menu, you can choose to mirror the signal onto channel 2. You could also choose not to mirror it and instead use a second microphone plugged into channel 2, e.g. one directional for dialogue in channel 1 and one ambient in channel 2.
Christian Schmeer - DP / Colourist
www.christianschmeer.com
www.vimeo.com/christianschmeer
Offline
User avatar

Chris Hocking

  • Posts: 659
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:23 am
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon May 27, 2013 10:35 am

Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
gmf wrote:I just got a Tritonaudio Fethead, which boosts the audio-level considerably, so now with the Rode NTG2 and that Fethead I get useable results for proper atmo-audio on the BMC without the need to carry a Juicedlink or whatever around.

The Fethead is a small phantom powered in-line preamplifier at the size of a thumb, which you just plug into the mic's XLR and there you go.


The Triton Audio Fethead looks like a neat device. Thanks for the tip.
http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

-


Maybe I'm missing something from this thread... but where exactly are you getting the Phantom power from?

If you're just putting it in-line between the BMC and the microphone, then I'm sorry to say, it's actually doing NOTHING. This device REQUIRES phantom power - something the camera doesn't supply.
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon May 27, 2013 3:36 pm

Chris Hocking wrote:
Peter J. DeCrescenzo wrote:
gmf wrote:I just got a Tritonaudio Fethead, which boosts the audio-level considerably, so now with the Rode NTG2 and that Fethead I get useable results for proper atmo-audio on the BMC without the need to carry a Juicedlink or whatever around.

The Fethead is a small phantom powered in-line preamplifier at the size of a thumb, which you just plug into the mic's XLR and there you go.


The Triton Audio Fethead looks like a neat device. Thanks for the tip.
http://tritonaudio.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=33

-


Maybe I'm missing something from this thread... but where exactly are you getting the Phantom power from?

If you're just putting it in-line between the BMC and the microphone, then I'm sorry to say, it's actually doing NOTHING. This device REQUIRES phantom power - something the camera doesn't supply.


If it does nothing then I'm on drugs.

How it works
Attach FetHead on to a balanced microphone cable and plug it in a dynamic microphone, switch on phantom power and enjoy FetHeads Natural open sound!


The reason the Rode NTG-2 works according to my observance is probably because it has a battery
which replaces phantom power in an insufficient way (that's why I need the Fethead).
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Chris Hocking

  • Posts: 659
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:23 am
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostMon May 27, 2013 8:51 pm

Christian Schmeer wrote:Yes, that's correct. I plug the mono microphone with the mono adapter into the channel 1 audio port and in the BMCC's audio menu, you can choose to mirror the signal onto channel 2. You could also choose not to mirror it and instead use a second microphone plugged into channel 2, e.g. one directional for dialogue in channel 1 and one ambient in channel 2.


There are two possibilities...

a) Because you have a battery in your Rode NTG2, maybe the microphone is wired in such a way, that power is "leaking" back down the line, and giving the Tritonaudio Fethead enough juice to actually do something. You'd have to do some tests - but as far as I know, most microphones have circularity in place to prevent this exact situation from happening (so that you don't fry anything if you're sending phantom power from your mixer to a self-powered microphone).

b) What I ASSUME is actually happening is that the Tritonaudio Fethead is basically just affecting the wiring configuration from the microphone to the camera, so that nothing is cancelled out. You need to remember that the camera is expecting a BALANCED MONO input.

In terms of cabling, this has been discussed many times before...
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostSun Jun 02, 2013 1:38 pm

Hi Chris,

sorry it took so long to get back, thanks for your thoughts and the link. I'm not sure if you're addressing towards my or Christian's problem, as you quote him but talk about the Fethead which I'm using.

Cheers,
Thomas
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostTue Jun 04, 2013 3:43 pm

Well, after all, I can not recommend the Fethead Phantom with the Rode NTG2 running on batteries - I had occasional crackles and permanent audio-issues while recording, then everything was fine again, so I returned the Fethead - maybe it's the BMC itsself, as I already had some issues with audio so far w/o the Fethead, I don't know... I'm a bit clueless here.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/
Offline
User avatar

Chris Hocking

  • Posts: 659
  • Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:23 am
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostFri Jun 07, 2013 1:22 am

As explained... the Triton Audio Fethead requires Phantom power - something the camera doesn't supply.
Offline
User avatar

Thomas Schumacher

  • Posts: 745
  • Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:14 pm
  • Location: Germany

Re: seems to be SOLVED _ max. audiolevel -36db - need advice

PostFri Jun 07, 2013 7:57 am

Chris Hocking wrote:As explained... the Triton Audio Fethead requires Phantom power - something the camera doesn't supply.


And that's why it sometimes did work (because of the Rode's battery) and sometimes not?!
Oh well, time for a firmware-update (and me gettings some juicedlink), I hope the "future" BM were talking about a firmware-updateto you isn't that far in the future.

Thanks Chris.
https://www.gernemehrfilm.de/

Return to Cinematography

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bob Moore, CaptainHook, Ulysses Paiva and 29 guests