Completing my MFT lens setup, any thoughts?

Hi

I've been shooting on a Lumix G85 for a while, and while I was about to switch to Sony FF, I decided to stay with MFT and will get the new BMPCC4k when it comes out, if it delivers a image like the original.

I've been giving my lenses some thought, and considering adding a bit, possibly swapping some out, as I was given some of these lessons and not much thought went into my whole set.

So currently I have :

12-35mm f2.8 Panasonic
20mm 1.7 panasonic
25mm 0.95 Mitakon
42.5mm 1.2 Nocticron

As the BMPCC4k doesn't have image stabilisation and I often am handheld run and gun style, I think the 12-35 and the 42.5 Nocticron will be very helpful to give me a helping hand and cover a good range of focal lengths.

The 20mm 1.7 was my first lens, almost not worth selling it, and its tiny. I rarely use it though and its noisy. The Mitakon I got because I was getting very interested in the Voigtlanders but didn't have the money. I like the manual focus and it has a certain look about it.

So I was considering adding something on the wide end and long end. I keep reading good things about the Laowa 7.5mm, and it would be really nice for when 12mm just isn't wide enough which I find quite often. But I wonder if it might be a bit too wide! I didn't really want to go with the UWA zooms as they are expensive and not nearly as fast.

Then at the long end I was considering the Panasonic 35-100. I have to say I've never been that taken with the image from the Panasonic zooms, the 12-35 and the 35-100 and I've used both a lot. They look fine, sharp and are very useful, but for some reason when I use my Mitakon I'm usually happier with the image! Maybe its less clinical or has that 'character' people talk about, maybe its the manual focus and aperture that make me think and work differently.

I still would love to try one of the Voigtlanders as I've seen beautiful images from them. Maybe one day I'd sell my Mitakon and Panasonic 20mm and got for the Voigtlander 17.5mm or 25mm!

Would anyone offer any other suggestions, or ideas for me? I know its quite a personal choice, but its always nice to have some help.

Thanks

For run-n-gun you are covered quite well. If you aim for a wider lens, get the Zero-D 9mm, it’s really nice and wide enough IMHO.
If you like the less sterile look of the Mitakon, why not consider some vintage photographic glass, like Minolta SR? You can adapt nearly every classic lens to MFT! No stabilization, of course, and most vintage wides are not that great. But starting with 24 or 25mm, you get good stuff from Minolta and Zeiss C/Y.

BUT: if you want something even more cinematic check this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75687

Hi Mate

Thanks, but that Zero D lens is not MFT? I was sort of planning to stick with native lenses for ease and not bothering with adaptors. I imagine 9mm is wide enough, but the only Laowa MFT lens is the 7.5mm. It might be fine and could always be cropped in slightly if its too wide?

The link you gave didn't work, can you post it again...I'm very interested! I'm looking for lenses with some character!

A good wide lens for MFT, is the Tokina Cine 11-16 MFT (comes in several mounts), Ver 1 of this lens is discounted now a newer version (just a cosmetic change) is out. Great little lens, I have the original Duclos mod. version. Easy to focus full manual focus, and 11mm on the new full MFT sensor will give the same coverage as a 7 mm on the BMPCC. 7 to 11mm is an UWA on the new sensor, while 12-16mm is a good WA coverage.
Cheers

Alex, Uli meant this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75687

Thanks

Denny, I think that lens is a bit expensive for me, but also I have that range covered mostly by my 12-35, thats why I was interested in something as wide as 7.5 or 8mm.

Well, there is the excellent SLR Magic 10mm Hyperprime, which is also an excellent little UWA for the MFT format. A 10mm on the full size MFT sensor, is going to be like a 20mm on full frame 35mm, very wide.
A 7.5 or 8mm is going to have considerable distortion, especially at the edges.
Cheers

Since you already have a 12mm, a 10mm might not be the most compelling choice. You might want to look at the Venus Optics Laowa 7.5mm f/2. There are samples online, to judge distortion. It's not bad.

Depends, on the new sensor, 10 mm is an 90 degree AOV, while 12mm is 80 degrees. A 7.5 is going to be around 109 degree AOV. While a 7.5mm is going to be around 109/110 degree AOV.

So it is going to depend on what you are trying to shoot.
Cheers

That 7.5mm is not bad, but there's a reason they don't call it "Zero-D".
OTOH, it's really impressive what Venus Optics have achieved regarding distortion, my Kowa 8.5mm is worse than their 7.5 (and won't cover MFT anyway).

Did you have a look at the SLR Magic 10mm (it is available in MFT mount)?

Thanks guys

I hadn't seen the SLR magic 10mm, but thats an interesting one to add to the list. Its more expensive though. I can't find any comparisons to the Laowa 7.5mm, but I read some people saying they'd choose the Laowa over the SLR magic 8mm without hesitation.

With the Laowa I can see the distortion at the edges, but if theres not a huge amount of movement I don't find it a problem. I would be using this lens more for wide landscapes and establishing shots, when 12mm just doesn't give that really huge view! And when I do this kinds of shots I don't tend to move a lot. I find panning is when the distortion gets quite horrible, even on my 12-35mm I notice it at the edges

Absolutely, good observation. The 12-35 is only good in that respect on Panasonic cameras, which use digital correction. BM's cameras don't.

And your are right about distortion becoming more obvious on moving shots than with a stable landscape (without any buildings nearby). Bur many shooters use superwides just for that: fast action.

That's why you need to choose lenses by usage scenario, not only by technical data. Lenses which are perfect in every aspect are expensive, think Otus.

Distortion by wides is even a question of personal taste. I use the Zeiss C/Y 18mm (on larger sensors) if I need to move, since it's distortion is just looking nicer with people on the edge of the frame, even if I have the 18-35mm by Sigma.

My advice: try before you buy. Rent or borrow and find out what is your best lens.

Thanks Uli

I didn't know that Panasonic use distortion correction? So will my 12-35 have more extreme distortion on the edges when using my G85 than a BMPCC4k? I haven't ever used a Blackmagic camera, I'm just planning to get one! Does Panasonic only do that with their native lenses

I do think the 7.5mm is a littler wider than I need, I'd probably be happy with 8mm or 9mm even, if it meant less distortion. But I've been fairly impressed with the videos of the Laowa. I've just been watching some on Vimeo with lots of movement and it works. This is with a BMMCC



I'm not sure I'd be able to rent or borrow the Laowa, maybe I could return it if I didn't like it

I’d +1 with Denny on the 10mm SLR magic.

Really excellent wide lens, very low distortion, cine style gears.

7.5mm is a big jump from 12mm.

JB

Thanks

I just think if I was going for 10mm I'd probably save up more for the Voigtlander as it's 0.95, and from what I read it's an amazing lens. Not much info on the SLR magic, and its a lot more expensive than the Laowa.

I wonder why they don't make some more 8mm or 9mm primes for MFT

I didn't know that Panasonic use distortion correction? So will my 12-35 have more extreme distortion on the edges when using my G85 than a BMPCC4k?

Sorry, it's the other way round: it will have less distortion on the Panasonic than on the BMPCC4K. If the BMPCC4K is not very different from other models by BM, it won't support the distortion information from the lens to correct with in-camera processing. Of course, you can always use some correction in post, but that takes extra rendering time.

And then the Voigtländer 10.5 is about twice as expensive as the SLR Magic. While it's great lens, as long as you don't desperately need the speed – I doubt you will with the dual ISO in the BMPCC4K – the SLR Magic might be the better choice. The Voigtländer ist quite soft WO and only get's really sharp when you stop it down one or two stops.

Thanks yeah I meant to say it the other way around!

hmm, I wonder if it will be an issue with the wider lenses on the BMPCC4k. Something to be aware of

So yeah the options seem to be the Laowa 7.5, the SLR magic 10mm and the Voigtlanger 10mm. I think the last one is out of my price range. I just can't find very much info on the 10mm SLR magic lens, which is off putting. The Laowa seems to get a lot of love!

I just can't find very much info on the 10mm SLR magic lens, which is off putting.

I was going to tell you to see all the user reviews at B&H (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _lens.html), but there are only two! Surprising, as this is quite a popular lens.

You can find a few videos on Vimeo using this lens (e.g., ),

and some reviews:

https://www.eoshd.com/2015/01/slr-magic ... -1-review/

http://zakforsman.com/slr-magic-10mm-t2 ... cine-lens/

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2014/10/2 ... ny-medina/

And you can find more with Google searches.

I have this lens too and can vouch for its greatness.

Thanks, yeah I wonder why it doesn't get more interest online.

It's a lot more expensive than the Laowa though, in the uk its £800 as opposed to £500. Thats a big difference.

Another semi important issue is that it takes a 77mm filter thread, and my SLR magic Variabl ND is 62mm and I can adapt it to all my other lenses. The Laowa has a 46mm thread which is the same as my Mitakon I think.

The final thing to consider is weight.

If Laowa can make such a ridiculously wide lens that people like, Im really surprised there aren't more good lenses in that area which are also very small, light and accept filters. Maybe they will come in time!

Another semi important issue is that it takes a 77mm filter thread, and my SLR magic Variabl ND is 62mm and I can adapt it to all my other lenses. The Laowa has a 46mm thread which is the same as my Mitakon I think.

That is indeed a factor...I've resigned myself to requiring different sized ND (and UV/IR cut) filters for my lenses; it's an added expense and hassle. And 77 mm is more expensive than smaller sizes if you're buying and stacking individual ND filters instead of going variable. I recently splurged on a Firecrest Ultra ND for my SLR Magic 10mm and it cost about a third of what I spent on the lens itself.

We don't have to wait long until it will be as expensive in the US…
Like many things from China.

Thats the thing, my SLR magic variable ND was £170, so I can't really get one for each lens.

I'm also wondering if there is a better solution for ND's when you swap lenses frequently. It takes a bit of time, it would be nice if there was a quicker solution!

I'm also wondering if there is a better solution for ND's when you swap lenses frequently. It takes a bit of time, it would be nice if there was a quicker solution!

Some cameras have built-in ND filters but not the Pocket (neither the old one or the forthcoming one).

The other option is the filter holder system (e.g, 100mm) that allows you to use the same filters with all your lenses since you don't have individual screw-on filters; see https://www.formatt-hitech.com/learn-holder-systems for details.

Yeah I don't think the holder system will work for me, as I'd need it on every lens, and it gets too bulky.

I've been using the SLR magic variable ND because I read it was the best. But its also more expensive. The Hoya ones also seem o be good and are much cheaper, so maybe I could get a couple and keep them mostly on my most used lenses.

I have no idea what size you'd need to avoid vignetting on the Laowa 7.5mm!!

I've been using the SLR magic variable ND because I read it was the best. But its also more expensive. The Hoya ones also seem o be good and are much cheaper, so maybe I could get a couple and keep them mostly on my most used lenses.

I have the Hoya as well for my Panasonic zoom lens; it's fine. The main thing to watch out for with these variable ND filters is that if you push them all the way to the max you can get a big "X" in your image (this isn't vignetting, it's the effect of the two polarizing filters used to produce variable ND). You can see a perfect example at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4023519

For this reason I decided to get a fixed ND filter and supplement it with the variable as needed so I don't have to push the variable one so far. The SLR Magic variable claims to avoid this issue but I've seen evidence of it in my images on especially bright days when I had to push the filter to its maximum setting.

I read about the X but never experienced it with my SLR magic VND even with it stopped all the way down.

It goes from 1.3 to 6 stops ND, so Im not sure if that is less than the ones you are talking about

I read about the X but never experienced it with my SLR magic VND even with it stopped all the way down.

It goes from 1.3 to 6 stops ND, so Im not sure if that is less than the ones you are talking about

I have the same SLR Magic ND filter you do; I think they only make one model, and the "X" effect is very subtle stopped down all the way but I can see some evidence of it in images I've shot; I believe the effect is more prevalent in wide-angle lenses, which of course includes the 10mm.

You can also get the SLR Magic 77mm VND packaged with the 10mm Cine lens for only $100 more. This is how I got mine. Yiu could also sell the 62mm VND and get the 77mm, which is a a better choice for Cine lenses, which the lower end ones are 77mm fronts. You can add good Matte Box adapter rings thst screw into yiur smaller lenses to get a common 77mm front.

The 77mm SLR VND also has a 86mm front ring to allow sticking a IR cut on the front without vignetting on the 10mm lens. This is going to be a real issue with filters on UWA lenses on the new Pocket 4K, when shooting full gate 17:9 format.
Cheers

I've just sent my SLR magic VND off to be fixed, as it was really loose and didn't feel right.

I would ideally like to get a couple of ND filters, so I don't have to swap each time I change lenses. I often change between my 12-35 and 42.5 and having to change the VND too and fiddle with step up rings etc is a hassle especially outside when I'm travelling.

My issue with the SLR magic ones is the price and the thread size. I might end up with three 58mm lenses, I have two currently, and it would be nice to have a 58mm VND. Currently even the closest one by SLR magic is 62mm and although it looks quite cool on my camera its a bit awkward in my case and would be nicer if it was a perfect fit.

So it seems the two other reasonably priced ones are Tiffen and Hoya. From what I've read I was leaning towards the Hoya, but the X problem is very common with that. It has 10 stops rather than the 6 of the SLR magic. So maybe they all create the X at a certain point and the SLR magic stops just shy of where it starts. So I could get the Hoya VND and just use it up to the point where the X starts to appear. I wonder if it would be similar to the SLR magic. Its much cheaper, less than half price.

The Hoya works fine for me and the X only appears lightly at the very end, which is really dark.

But you are aware of the downside of Var-NDs, are you? They are polarizers too…

Currently $908 at B&H Photo for SLR Magic Cine 10mm T2.1 with SLR Magic Vari-ND 77mm. Over $200 off apparently.


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Hi Uli

Thats good to know. Many of the amazon reviews say that the X is happening half way through or even after stopping down slightly. No idea if this is due to their setups or variances in the filters?

I'm aware that there are downsides to using Variable ND's, but there is no alternative that makes sense for a travelling run and gun one man show like myself. I need practicality and portability, and I've never noticed any issues with the image using my LSR magic VND, apart from as you say when at its darkest the X begins to appear.

A week ago I was shooting in very bright conditions coming from my right through to shooting directly toward the light with the SLR Magic Vari-ND mark II 82mm. Didn’t notice any X-factor but I think my maximum setting was 10 on the dial so not the full Max setting (shooting at 60 fps 2K). That may be one of the reasons I’ve never had the X issue as I seldom shoot full sensor and any faint X may not be apparent with the 2K crop.

SLR Magic does limit their strength to 6-stops for the sole purpose of ensuring your footage isn’t ruined with the X-factor. For those who feel they have a slight problem, perhaps turn the dial to 10 and see if that works better?


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Yeah I think they limit it for that reason.

I am just questioning whether the SLR magic filters are worth twice that of the HOYA ones. Its also nice to have a few more stops to darken things more with the HOYA, but its a bit annoying if you have to worry about the X creeping in!

So sorry, my bad,
what I got is the Heliopan Variograu, not the Hoya! So please, someone else comment on the Hoya, since the Heliopan is nearly twice the price. Interesting detail: On the box it says 0.3 to 2.0 ND, while B&H sells them as 0.3 to 1.8 (still more than enough in most situations). But this might be careful labeling, so nobody does complain. But I really need to turn up the contrast a lot to make a faint X appear at the end position.

For run-n-gun it's sure great not to have to worry if you are getting close to the end without always looking at the numbers.

Ah yeah the heliopans are much more expensive! Oh well, maybe I just have to try the Hoya and see